357 réponses à ce sujet

[fabio012]

Skyrims story was horribly written. So were the guild quests. TES strong suit has always been the open world, but DAI has surpassed their scale and has many other strong features to go along with it. The next TES game is going to have to really step up if they want to content with DA at this point. It doesn't help that every TES protagonist is a static character either. 

Skyrims quests were way better than DAIs. You could easily tell they were trying to copy Skyrim, just look at that scripted giant vs dragon fight yeah that happened in skyrim randomly and it was way cooler. I doubt there will ever be another rpg game that can sell better than Elder scrolls probably not even TW3.

[AlanC9]

You are comparing a party based rpg with a single character rpg. Way different. It is like comparing call of duty to an rts game, when it comes to combat.

Why is dull combat OK in a single player game? I mean, I see that it is, since people have tolerated TES combat this long. But how come?

[dekarserverbot]

next question:

 

Warlords Battlecry 3 vs The Legend of Zelda Twilight princess...

[Jaron Oberyn]

You are comparing a party based rpg with a single character rpg. Way different. It is like comparing call of duty to an rts game, when it comes to combat.

 

What sort of combat system the game employs is irrelevant. The combat animations and fluidity in TES games would be impressive, if we were in the 90s. 

 

Do you actually believe this or are you just telling yourself it hoping to convince yourself that its true?

 

We both know DA:I and TES are not the same kind of RPG's even if you want to claim so. There's more to making an open world game being a good open world game than just being expansive in terms of scale.

 

The static protagonist and being given actual freedom is one of the reasons for why TES is so popular.

 

I tell myself this repeatedly each night, it helps me sleep easier. 

[Nyaore]

The whole series of Twilight movies have rotten scores on imbd, though. and on Amazon.com.

The books didn't, though, and in spite of their flaws I still have friends who say they hold up parts of that series as excellent writing. The point I'm trying to make is that just because something is popular doesn't necessarily mean it's good. I'm not saying Skyrim is or isn't, but that the logic itself can be easily pointed out as flawed so it's better to find another argument.

[Nyaore]

I'm not the one who said TES was lagging behind Dragon Age and playing catch-up. I don't care which game you prefer, but don't step to me with opinions as if they're hard fact.

I'm not? All I pointed out was that that argument doesn't hold up well. I really don't care what other people think. If they like a game better good for them! It doesn't effect me. Just trying to point out for the sake of argument that sort of logic can be easily picked apart. What games you like or don't is your own business.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Skyrims quests were way better than DAIs. You could easily tell they were trying to copy Skyrim, just look at that scripted giant vs dragon fight yeah that happened in skyrim randomly and it was way cooler. I doubt there will ever be another rpg game that can sell better than Elder scrolls probably not even TW3.

Skyrim quests were dull and forgettable. How could I forget that Skyrim was the first franchise to bring us dragons, or giants. Yes, those tall, lanky, Liam Neeson looking creatures were far superior to DAI's giants. And the boring, repetitive dragon fights in Skyrim are still a marvel to this day. 

[rashie]

Why is dull combat OK in a single player game? I mean, I see that it is, since people have tolerated TES combat this long. But how come?

People tolerate it because it has elements of an open world game that actually gives you real freedom, have you ever noticed how during the introductions for the last 3 big TES games, they always start you off as a prisoner?

 

That then leads to a point where its just you and the world with no one there to tell you in which direction or order to approach it all or how to do it? That is a sign of a good open world game, something Bethesda albeit buggy games are quite good at by now.

 

Bioware tried to mix it with their traditional railroaded storytelling but I'm not sure if it was for the better at this point.

[AlanC9]

Exceptions to every rule. But in general, my point stands. Do you have any exceptions you want to share?

V:TM comes to mind first. I suppose we'd need to settle on a metric for selling poorly if we really wanted to talk sensibly about this.

[AtreiyaN7]

Easier to read? I don't think we're looking at the same thing on our screens. What I'm getting is a sort of cursive thing. What are the rest of you seeing?

Yes, it's a script-style font - would look up the exact one, but I don't have full access on my iPad. As a book designer, that font would not be my first choice for readability. Ignoring the OP's font choice here, I find that DA:I beats out Skyrim for my tastes. I loved exploring Skyrim's world, but aside from that, the story content was largely lacking and the NPCs lacked personality for the most part. I only liked two of them, really - Karliah and Brynjolff (and I couldn't even land him as a hubby for my character *le sigh*).

As I pointed out in another thread, there was really only two quests (quest chains, really) hat I actually considered interesting - the one involving solving the murders and the Thieve's Guild chain. Mind you, I really liked Skyrim, but its beauty is ultimately somewhat hollow in my opinion. Even with the bugs and some other issues, I prefer DA:I on the whole - at least I actually care about the characters I spend time with, unlike the Skyrim characters where I didn't give a rat's behind about my housecarls (married one of them and used him as a pack mule - emotional attachment to him? Nada!).

[Rawgrim]

Your statement would be valid, if mod support were my only argument. Perhaps you should reread the post you are attempting to respond to. 

 

Just because you played it for the story, doesn't mean it wasn't terribly written. Fanfic writers could do better in their sleep. 

 

I suggest you schedule an appointment with your optometrist if you genuinely struggle seeing combat in this game. 

 

Acting is only as good as the directors supervision. Anyone can read lines off of a piece of paper. Comparing the delivery in Bioware games to Bethesda would be disproportionate. Don't even get me started on the fact that Bethesda only ever employs around 3-4 actors who voice every npc in their game. It's painfully obvious when the Jarl of Whiterun is some random drunk in a tavern, or guardsman in another city. 

 

Again, sales are not representative of quality. 

 

Actually I pointed out that the mod support argument was the one I singled out. So maybe you should read my post again? More slowly this time.

 

I don't struggle to see combat. I said I struggled to see the characters within all the flashes and effects. The rotten AI doesn't help that fact either. My mages and archers rush in to fight up close all the time too.

 

Skyrim used over 70 voice actors (including Jon Curry, who voices Zevran). So now you are just telling lies, and that makes you sound more and more desperate.

 

Huge sales is an indicator of popularity. Like it or not, this is vital in the entertainment industry.

[Rawgrim]

Why is dull combat OK in a single player game? I mean, I see that it is, since people have tolerated TES combat this long. But how come?

 

I didn't find it dull. I found it to be ok.

 

Not every game needs The Awesome Button.

[Rawgrim]

Skyrim quests were dull and forgettable. How could I forget that Skyrim was the first franchise to bring us dragons, or giants. Yes, those tall, lanky, Liam Neeson looking creatures were far superior to DAI's giants. And the boring, repetitive dragon fights in Skyrim are still a marvel to this day. 

 

Skyrim was the first franchise to bring us dragons and giants? Not a fan of rpgs, are you?

[CronoDragoon]

Just because you played it for the story, doesn't mean it wasn't terribly written. 

 

I guess this is where I admit I play Resident Evil games for the story...

[Rawgrim]

V:TM comes to mind first. I suppose we'd need to settle on a metric for selling poorly if we really wanted to talk sensibly about this.

 

No clue what V:TM is.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Actually I pointed out that the mod support argument was the one I singled out. So maybe you should read my post again? More slowly this time.

 

I don't struggle to see combat. I said I struggled to see the characters within all the flashes and effects. The rotten AI doesn't help that fact either. My mages and archers rush in to fight up close all the time too.

 

Skyrim used over 70 voice actors (including Jon Curry, who voices Zevran). So now you are just telling lies, and that makes you sound more and more desperate.

 

Huge sales is an indicator of popularity. Like it or not, this is vital in the entertainment industry.

 

No, you listed that argument as if it were the only one when it was not. Remember my mention of the optometrist?

 

No, not lies. Hyperbole, to illustrate the fact that you hear the exact same voices in different characters throughout the game. They don't even try to change the tone. You bothered to count the VAs, but I recommend you take a glance at the right column this time. 

 

So we established that sales are not equivalent to quality. Now let me introduce you to the fact that popularity does not equal quality. Sale's relevance to a business was never in question here, the quality of the titles were. Please stay on point. 

[slimgrin]

I hope EA stays far far away from Bethesda and Project Red. They have ruined enough great companies.

 

 

This. Let Bioware and EA be a two headed monster, but leave the real talent alone.

[Rawgrim]

The books didn't, though, and in spite of their flaws I still have friends who say they hold up parts of that series as excellent writing. The point I'm trying to make is that just because something is popular doesn't necessarily mean it's good. I'm not saying Skyrim is or isn't, but that the logic itself can be easily pointed out as flawed so it's better to find another argument.

 

I was saying that if something gets poor reviews AND sells poorly, odds are it is a poor product.

[Jaron Oberyn]

I didn't find it dull. I found it to be ok.

 

Not every game needs The Awesome Button.

 

And yet, you're defending a game that essentially has an "Awesome button"

Skyrim was the first franchise to bring us dragons and giants? Not a fan of rpgs, are you?

You're not very apt at detecting sarcasm are you?

[Rawgrim]

No, you listed that argument as if it were the only one when it was not. Remember my mention of the optometrist?

 

No, not lies. Hyperbole, to illustrate the fact that you hear the exact same voices in different characters throughout the game. They don't even try to change the tone. You bothered to count the VAs, but I recommend you take a glance at the right columns this time. 

 

So we established that sales are not equivalent to quality. Now let me introduce you to the fact that popularity does not equal quality. Sale's relevance to a business was never in question here, the quality of the titles were. Please stay on point. 

 

I adressed those arguments too, but I focused on the Mod one, since that was the one that was the most "out there". It is pretty clear.

 

You hear the same voice actors in the DA games too. What is your point, exactly? Both games use the same actors for lots of voices. Bethesda doing this = wrong. Bioware doing this = great?

 

And no. I didn't count the voice actors. I did something smarter. I looked up the facts on the game and it said they used over 70 voice actors. No need to count them individually. I can give you the link for the information, if you wish. So you don't have to count them all over again next time.

 

I said poor sales AND poor reviews together are usually an indicator of a poor product. Especially if the product has been marketed heavily. People don't buy a product if it is a bad product, or if they don't know about the product.

[Rawgrim]

And yet, you're defending a game that essentially has an "Awesome button"

You're not very apt at detecting sarcasm are you?

 

You feel the basic combat moves in Skyrim is the same as the awsome button? People explode in thousands of sparkles and bloody body parts each time you hit them? No? Not the same then, is it.

 

Seeing your poor argumentation all over this thread, no. Sarcasm isn't a clear thing to detect when it comes from you.

 

And just for the record, I like DA better than The Elder Scrolls. This may come as a surprise to you, but liking both of them is perfectly possible. But I like them for different reasons. So stop assuming.

[LordOfScorn]

The best part of Skyrim is shooting someone in the face with an arrow while you are stealthed and having his friend comment on how it must be the wind. Nothing to see here, moving along!

[Jaron Oberyn]

I adressed those arguments too, but I focused on the Mod one, since that was the one that was the most "out there". It is pretty clear.

 

You hear the same voice actors in the DA games too. What is your point, exactly? Both games use the same actors for lots of voices. Bethesda doing this = wrong. Bioware doing this = great?

 

And no. I didn't count the voice actors. I did something smarter. I looked up the facts on the game and it said they used over 70 voice actors. No need to count them individually. I can give you the link for the information, if you wish. So you don't have to count them all over again next time.

 

I said poor sales AND poor reviews together are usually an indicator of a poor product. Especially if the product has been marketed heavily. People don't buy a product if it is a bad product, or if they don't know about the product.

 

No you didn't, you remarked that console had no mod support and therefore my "argument" was invalid. 

 

Every game reuses voice actors, but none are so obvious and copious as TES games. You won't hear several main characters voicing random npc's in the same exact tone in Bioware games, but you couldn't walk 5 feet without hearing so in a Bethesda game. 

 

I must say I appreciate the concern, but I didn't waste time counting names at all. I simply provided the link to prove my point. 

 

Now you're changing your argument. There is little point in furthering this debate, you aren't offering any substantive counterarguments, and quite frankly you are ill equipped for this sort of discussion.

[Rawgrim]

No you didn't, you remarked that console had no mod support and therefore my "argument" was invalid. 

 

Every game reuses voice actors, but none are so obvious and copious as TES games. You won't hear several main characters voicing random npc's in the same exact tone in Bioware games, but you couldn't walk 5 feet without hearing so in a Bethesda game. 

 

I must say I appreciate the concern, but I didn't waste time counting names at all. I simply provided the link to prove my point. 

 

Now you're changing your argument. There is little point in furthering this debate, you aren't offering any substantive counterarguments. 

 

Yes I did. Oddly enough, that bit was aimed at your "mod" argument. I was pretty clear on that. I also explained it to you three times now. I will spoonfeed it for you. "You can't mod the game on consoles. So your mod argument is rather invalid." There you go. Wrote the whole thing for you all over again. I hope you read it.

 

They arn't voicing random NPCs. They are voicing NPCs of a certain race\nationality. That is how they have always done it. Way more NPCs in Skyrim, so you are bound to hear them more often than in a Bioware game.

 

Actually I offered lots of counter arguments. You just didn't read them.