265 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

That was actually the original intenton of the Circles under the Nevarran Accords, interestingly enough.

Several circles actually were like that as well. The closest we ever see in-game is the Ferelden circle, which by all accounts was pretty lax, though you needed special permission from the First Enchanter to leave. Kirkwall's circle was the worst, obviously.

 

I know that if you ally with the mages (I haven't tried conscripting them yet, so I have yet to see how it differs), they found a College that is basically Hogwarts in Thedas in the epilogue.

[Xilizhra]

When two sources, one first hand, treat it as normalcy, it is significant, whether you like it or not. 

Actually, one, Minaeve, only speaks of her own clan and nothing of others. The other, Vivienne, is hardly unbiased, without an agenda, or consistently honest.

[Br3admax]

Actually, one, Minaeve, only speaks of her own clan and nothing of others. 

She says it's something the Dalish do, not her clan. 

 

 

The other, Vivienne, is hardly unbiased, without an agenda, or consistently honest.

How do the Dalish affect Vivienne in anyway? Like at all?

[Xilizhra]

She says it's something the Dalish do, not her clan.

And she has experience with... how many Dalish again? One clan up until the age of seven?

 

 

How do the Dalish affect Vivienne in anyway? Like at all?

They're a threat to her monolithic viewpoint on how mages should be trained. Which is relevant in context, when she's criticizing you for allying with the mages.

[TheJediSaint]

How do the Dalish affect Vivienne in anyway? Like at all?

The fact they dress the way they do probably annoys her.

[Br3admax]

And she has experience with... how many Dalish again? One clan up until the age of seven?

Here, where Xil finally feels that she somehow knows more about the Dalish than an actual Dalish. Including her own Inquisitor who won't even finish the sentence about what happens when they can find no clan to take the extra children. 

 

 

They're a threat to her monolithic viewpoint on how mages should be trained. Which is relevant in context, when she's criticizing you for allying with the mages.

They really aren't. They're weirdos in the woods. It's completely irrelevant to her. A threat implies that the Dalish disagree with her view of magic as dangerous, which they don't, and that they have an impact on her life, which they do not even more so.

 

The fact they dress the way they do probably annoys her.

Seriously. Elves need shoes. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Viv is pretty politically astute and even Fiona recognized Ander's madness, its just she didn't care enough about public opinion (which she later demonstrated by selling redcliffe to the imperium) to bother with not violent avenues.

 

Point being though; the rebellion coming so soon after Kirkwall? It created a political vacuum in which moderation was lost.

 

That is the Mage rebellion's legacy.

 

The birth of a new age of extremism.

[Tarvesh]

I supported Vivienne to be Divine and convinced Cassandra not take the job, the. Flat out told Leliana I wouldn't support her...

Leliana became Divine. How do I get Vivienbe to become Divine?

[Master Warder Z_]

I supported Vivienne to be Divine and convinced Cassandra not take the job, the. Flat out told Leliana I wouldn't support her...

Leliana became Divine. How do I get Vivienbe to become Divine?

 

Did you do the war table mission to support her?

 

If not then, her chances of becoming Divine are low.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Oh, they were? I ... couldn't tell. =|
 

 

Actually, she did not miss that, she acknowledged it very clearly. As do I. If anything, it seems to me that some people are more hung up on these negative occurrences that they fail to (or maybe refuse to) realize what good the system does nonetheless. Call it negativity-bias.
 

 

Did she? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that was all just in Leliana's head, seeing as it contradicts what we know to be true: that she called the Conclave to find a peaceful solution to the mage/Templar issue.

 

Truth of the matter is that not many mages were asking for change until very recently, so it was not an issue that demanded attention before.

 

 
Yes; my apologies.
 
Then again, this is a spoiler section of the forum, so... *does balancing-gesture with both hands*

 

have you read Asunder?

[Xilizhra]

Here, where Xil finally feels that she somehow knows more about the Dalish than an actual Dalish. Including her own Inquisitor who won't even finish the sentence about what happens when they can find no clan to take the extra children.

Minaeve isn't Dalish, she was only born there. And Vivienne changed the subject too quickly for me to speak more (it also wasn't an unfinished sentence, and Minaeve doesn't contradict the Inquisitor on that note--the line you mentioned is from Vivienne only).

 

 

They really aren't. They're weirdos in the woods. It's completely irrelevant to her. A threat implies that the Dalish disagree with her view of magic as dangerous, which they don't, and that they have an impact on her life, which they do not even more so.

Well, there's one Dalish who's a threat to her.

 

 

Viv is pretty politically astute and even Fiona recognized Ander's madness, its just she didn't care enough about public opinion (which she later demonstrated by selling redcliffe to the imperium) to bother with not violent avenues.

 

Point being though; the rebellion coming so soon after Kirkwall? It created a political vacuum in which moderation was lost.

 

That is the Mage rebellion's legacy.

 

The birth of a new age of extremism.

And in my playthrough, it all worked out quite well. The mages got back on their feet, the Chantry is on a path to renewal, and the templars were purged.

[CrazyRah]

Vivienne if anything made me look at old events from another point of view and on some events I did re-evaluate my position

[Master Warder Z_]

And in my playthrough, it all worked out quite well. The mages got back on their feet, the Chantry is on a path to renewal, and the templars were purged.

 

Mmm we will see.

 

Considering the Inquisition is the only thing propping up that little extremist we will have to see how she does without it.

[Br3admax]

Minaeve isn't Dalish, she was only born there. And Vivienne changed the subject too quickly for me to speak more (it also wasn't an unfinished sentence, and Minaeve doesn't contradict the Inquisitor on that note--the line you mentioned is from Vivienne only).

"You aren't a real Dalish, you only lived there and was raised into that culture."-is by far one of the most idiotic arguments I have ever heard. Vivienne didn't change the subject too quickly, the Inquisitor has no response, though I'm sure you'll pull one from somewhere. As to Minaeve, she makes it clear what she knows Dalish to do. If anything, she makes the Inquisitor's clan the outlier, and from all sources we have on it, it is. Even then, this clan does not keep the extra mage children. Tell me, where will they go then? When all other possibilities are removed, there is only one option. 

 

 

Well, there's one Dalish who's a threat to her.

"The Inquisitor isn't Dalish, they just grew up there, but now they live in Skyhold, so they aren't Dalish." And even then, the observation has no affect on her whatsoever. You just don't want to admit that even "the People" fear magic and would rather kill extra mages than allow them to join the Circle. 

[Tarvesh]

Did you do the war table mission to support her?

If not then, her chances of becoming Divine are low.

I did indeed! I saw and made sure to get it done so I could have her as Divine.

[Master Warder Z_]

I did indeed! I saw and made sure to get it done so I could have her as Divine.

 

Did you do Leliana's personal quest and harden her?

 

Also did you encourage Cass to reform the Seekers?

 

I skirted the issue until the last minute, not promising support anyone until i backed Viv.

 

I think the game has a tally or something to that effect, so i gave the two other contenders something better to do, like helping me kill my enemies and making more super templars.

 

That said...me and cass are going need to have a few words if she persists in her delusion of a tranquility cure.

 

It would totally suck to have to throw my Inquizzy's girlfriend off of skyhold's battlements after keeping her off the sunburst throne...

[LOLandStuff]

She just says those things because she enjoys her position and doesn't want competition, so better keep everyone locked and under watch. Maybe give them a little freedom so you don't hear whining.

[Master Warder Z_]

Okay then, by this very logic, what is the point in a revolution then, unless the revolution's aim is *no* institutions, that is, anarchy?  All we are talking about is a reshuffling of power in some new institution, complete with a new set of have-nots.  What's the difference?

 

My friend you are arguing some very convoluted political bs right here.

 

In my humble opinion?

 

Revolutions are only justified by history and their supporters; same with most conflict.

 

Reasons that people in power can throw into the text books to justify their logic.

[ryno113]

She said how the mages rebelling at this time was a horrible idea given what just happened. Saying it made them look like they support what anders did. I still agree with the mages that they should be free but she brings up a really good point. Anyone else catch this

 

The reason I've always sided with the mages is that mages as far as I can tell always have this temptation hanging in front of them. The more powerful ones are able to ignore it almost completely but the temptation is always there when threatened.

 

The circle has a place I guess, but all of them should be a place of education. Every time the Templars i.e. Meredith, Red Templars turn to red lyrium it makes less sense to me than a mage being forced/persuaded to give into the temptation that is always there anyway. Like a Templar has to either be forced Red Lyrium (entirely possible for some) or willingly sit there and say, ahh Red Lyrium the thing that drove Meredith crazy, that eventually turns us into monsters delicious. I will have as much of this as I can to stop those pesky mages.

 

It makes sense if there are Templars who have a history of witnessing the mistreatment of blood magic etc. Those that have had experiences where they are paranoid and scared of magic and would turn to almost anything to keep it in check perhaps I understand but an entire army on this basis?

[Master Warder Z_]

ahh Red Lyrium the thing that drove Meredith crazy

 

The reports out of Kirkwall didn't involve red Lyrium as far as i can tell.

 

Barris and other templars merely believed it was "new more powerful lyrium".

 

Makes sense really, i mean all the people that knew what red lyrium was either left the order or fled Kirkwall shortly after the incident at the gallows.

[Xilizhra]

"You aren't a real Dalish, you only lived there and was raised into that culture."-is by far one of the most idiotic arguments I have ever heard. Vivienne didn't change the subject too quickly, the Inquisitor has no response, though I'm sure you'll pull one from somewhere. As to Minaeve, she makes it clear what she knows Dalish to do. If anything, she makes the Inquisitor's clan the outlier, and from all sources we have on it, it is. Even then, this clan does not keep the extra mage children. Tell me, where will they go then? When all other possibilities are removed, there is only one option.

Well... no, it's not the outlier, as every single clan whose practice has been mentioned has done this. The Alerion, Merrill's original clan, certainly did, with the Sabrae participating, and with Zathrian's clan, Lanaya makes no mention of her rivals for the position of First being killed for it (not to mention that they let Wynne's old apprentice live nearby). For other clans, it's just not mentioned. But with actual evidence available to us, only Minaeve's clan did so, and Vivienne brought it up to make a point.

 

 

"The Inquisitor isn't Dalish, they just grew up there, but now they live in Skyhold, so they aren't Dalish." And even then, the observation has no affect on her whatsoever. You just don't want to admit that even "the People" fear magic and would rather kill extra mages than allow them to join the Circle. 

I'll wait until I hear sources from those currently living within one of the clans to pass final judgment, I think.

[ryno113]

The reports out of Kirkwall didn't involve red Lyrium as far as i can tell.

 

Barris and other templars merely believed it was "new more powerful lyrium".

 

Makes sense really, i mean all the people that knew what red lyrium was either left the order or fled Kirkwall shortly after the incident at the gallows.

 

Didn't Varric write a book about it?

 

I'm not sure but surely he would've included the Red Lyrium?

[celebrei]

and the issue is the idea that everyone should just suck it up if treated badly. she makes the point of oh anyone can leave at any time they just need a note from mommy. when its been stated several occasions even in DA:I that isn't how it worked for many of them.

she makes the point of life being **** elsewhere, so magi need to tough it out.
should the elves suck up living in alienage?
should slaves in tevinter not want to be consider people not property?
should people never try to leave the Qun?

any person who's abused or mistreated has the inalienable right to take action to put an end to it. using other peoples mistreatment and oppression to justify another's oppression is not an argument.

I think you're equivocating the term "restrictions" with "oppression" the Mages were hardly slaves nor abused, they were only given restrictions and regulations given the potent nature of their gift (and as some have pointed out, a responsible and proven mage is allowed to leave the circles without repercussions) the rite of tranquil and annullment are only done as last resorts.