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That would make sense in and of itself, but Vivienne still hates them even after joining the Inquisition.
All it took for me to calm her down was to train some people in templar abilities. I literally got back every bit of disapproval she gave for freeing the mages. She didn't ask for the templar order to be reinstated, only for some people who can deal with possessed/crazy mages to be around as a safety precaution. Seemed pretty reasonable to me.
They don't give her any reason to change her opinion.
Well, none turn into abominations. That should be something, given that it was one of her first-presented concerns.
She hates seeing mages be free. I did it and she hated me for it.
No she didn't like the foreseeable repercussions (reckless mages, possession, abominations,blood magic usage,etc.)
All in all?
A pretty reasonable reaction.
There really isn't much companion backlash beyond what you would suspect for allying with the Templars.
But surprise surprise the Apostate and Anarchist don't like an organized military force.
No she didn't like the foreseeable repercussions (reckless mages, possession, abominations,blood magic usage,etc.)
Funnily enough, none of which happened.
Funnily enough, none of which happened.
I would say no, because the unfairness here is for the commoners; there's no point in slamming mages with the unfairness that commoners have to endure. I'd much rather give the commoners better lives and make things fair that way.
so all of that should just be given to them without having to work for them.
I felt like reloading and going to the templars when I saw the mages attitude before and after they joined.
the mage that was complaining to cass, really sounded spoiled to me. their attitude felt like spoiled children.
so all of that should just be given to them without having to work for them.
the mage that was complaining to cass, really sounded spoiled to me. their attitude felt like spoiled children.
I thought this was a very good scene. Even in Kirkwall, unquestionably th WORST circle in Thedas, mages still had comfortable rooms, 3 good meals per day and well maintained clothes and education I honestly don't understand how this works without the mages becoming part of some organization.
Who is actually going to pay for these amenities now?
Because she's like Morrigan
She's nothing like the free and delightful spirit of Morrigan. Morrigan actually make sense.
She said how the mages rebelling at this time was a horrible idea given what just happened. Saying it made them look like they support what anders did. I still agree with the mages that they should be free but she brings up a really good point. Anyone else catch this
I may not agree with her...sometimes I do. But in this instance she is right.
She hates seeing mages be free. I did it and she hated me for it.
I repeat, she hates stupidity.
Vivienne can be grating in party dialogue, but she's absolutely right about mages and the mage rebellion. Magic will find neither structure nor nurturing on it's own, it needs a place to blossom and a place where one can understand it. While the Circle could use more knowledge about spirits, a place to learn is well and good.
it sounds good in theory however how can magic be expected to grow in a locked away tower, never to see the outside world?
Towers need to become schools, and you graduate by going though the Harrowing. Yes it can kill you but such is the price foe having the power to destroy. Then have adavanced classes and time for those who wish to further there studies in magic. And the rest can go back to there homes.
And use the templars as the police force to inforce the laws, Like with weapons can't use it to attack or assult people. Using magic for self defense is fine.
Also there needs to be a way to check if a mage has a demon, the bad part is that unless there is some sort of way of testing using blood or something like it, then any test outside of what Meriel did or Anders did, will only work for some time.
i honestly just can't follow Vivienne on her ideals. i mean, the chantry's hanging by it's threads and the issue of the circle is what honestly started this whole mess. My advice would just be take a page out of Harry Potter and create the dragon age equivalent of Hogwarts.
Sorry for the necro thread, btw.
While I think she has good points, I also think she's kind of biased due to her position. She has relative freedom and is able to move about fairly freely I think. I don't know if she would be so keen on circles if she were a regular mage in a tower. also, that part in the salon when you first meet her, she can kill that marquis. Wouldn't a "regular" mage be locked up/made tranquil(perhaps too harsh) if they did that?
I whole heartedly agreed with Vivienne over the timing of the rebellion. I always claimed that supporting Anders was condoning mass murder. That Fiona moved for freedom so soon after that event was appalling timing if you want to gain people's trust. Then to move for it again after an attempt at murder on the Divine and where it was clear the Divine was trying to do something to improve conditions was reckless. Obviously by the time the third vote was taken at Andoral's Reach the mages had reached a point of no return, thanks to Fiona, but as Vivienne correctly states, even though not actually there, the motion was carried by one vote, that of Rhys, who subsequently abandoned the movement. Not exactly what you would call unanimous support for the rebellion.
There were rogue elements among the rebel movement even before the Venatori infiltrated them and I do wonder if the Resolutionists of DA2 who were working with the mage underground had Venatori among their numbers. If you choose the Conscripted Mages path, there is a group of mages who cause trouble at Skyhold and if you let them go, as Leliana advises so they can find out just how tough it is going to be on the outside, they eventually join up with a group of mages that are using a similar formula to the one used to create the bomb in Kirkwall. Anders says that the means of separating him from Justice he got from a Tevinter document, which I think was probably true and that Tevinter was working on substances to use against the Qun. So even when supporting the mages, I feel that I was correct in conscripting them instead of trusting them with total autonomy, until we had a chance to identify who were trustworthy and who were not.
The problem with Vivienne is not that she doesn't make a lot of valid points but the way she says it, which sounds patronising a lot of the time and is inclined to aggravate the listener. It explains why she wasn't made Grand Enchanter instead of Fiona because I'm sure she would have put herself forward at the time but unfortunately her superior attitude and privileged position as the mistress of a noble probably is what went against her.
The problem with Vivienne is not that she doesn't make a lot of valid points but the way she says it, which sounds patronising a lot of the time and is inclined to aggravate the listener.
That's actually the point. Vivienne was intented to sound less convincing that way and than expected.The writer accomplished that, because very few people agree or even paid little attention to whatever she was saying.....
It explains why she wasn't made Grand Enchanter instead of Fiona because I'm sure she would have put herself forward at the time but unfortunately her superior attitude and privileged position as the mistress of a noble probably is what went against her.
This part is not true... Because there is no circle system for her to put herself forward for the title. And nothing went against her because most loyal mages(minority still under the chantry) are depending on her somewhat.
First she was a regular mage, but she proved herself trustworth and got privilegies.While I think she has good points, I also think she's kind of biased due to her position. She has relative freedom and is able to move about fairly freely I think. I don't know if she would be so keen on circles if she were a regular mage in a tower. also, that part in the salon when you first meet her, she can kill that marquis. Wouldn't a "regular" mage be locked up/made tranquil(perhaps too harsh) if they did that?
First she was a regular mage, but she proved herself trustworth and got privilegies.
And second, the marquise was going to attack one of her guest thats why she frozen him, the one who claimed for his execution is the Inquisitor. Its not something uncommon in Orlais, Prosper does the same thing for Hawke in MotA.
And got herself a powerful noble, one who is in charge of the people who decide who gets titles and who does not, to take her into his bed as his mistress.
I suspect most of her power actually comes from him.
And we find out in a Cole dialogue that she actually manipulated that marquis into attacking the Inquisitor so she could make a dramatic entrance and make an impression on the Inquisitor. She tries to shut him up fast there.
And how it invalidated what I said?And we find out in a Cole dialogue that she actually manipulated that marquis into attacking the Inquisitor so she could make a dramatic entrance and make an impression on the Inquisitor. She tries to shut him up fast there.
Personally, I think Vivenne has the most realistic outlook in the game.
"One cannot unlearn a primal fear. Like fire or heights, it is not about prejudice. It is about survival.
I care for the witch hunts that will come. I care for the angry mobs who string up mages on gibbets for the vultures.
I care that my stupid brethren will kill and be killed by frightened people defending their families from monsters.
I will stand in opposition to that, whatever you may do."
She is not the type of character that everyone will appreciate like, say, Sigrun, She can be unpleasant and condescending and she is ambitious.
But, end of the day, she understand the dangers of magic and she cares, not just about herself or mages but about normal, average Thedosians.
And how it invalidated what I said?
And how it invalidated what I said?
Because he wouldn't have attacked without her "help"?
And kill or not, casting a spell on someone in a party might be looked down upon normally
also, that part in the salon when you first meet her, she can kill that marquis. Wouldn't a "regular" mage be locked up/made tranquil(perhaps too harsh) if they did that?
It saddens me that all the pro-mages have against Vivienne is that she is not pro-mage enough and in the right way rather than the fact that she doesn enjoy lording her magic over others when she can get away with it.
Vivienne walks a fine line between respectful mage authority and Magister.
I'm not pro-mage and did say that she has good points. But if she really did manipulate that marquis to attack so she could cast a spell on him, isn't that using magic to "show off"?
I was not referring to you in particular.
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