77 réponses à ce sujet

[Scott Sion]

You're aware that the Revan fans just kept complaining until Bioware got fed up and made a whole expansion dedicated to him? If you want the whole HoF thing to die down then you shouldn't cite examples where fan bitching actually proved sucesful.

I like how they gave us the option close off Hawke's story in the fade sequence. My only complaint is that they shouldn't have made it a choice between Hawke or Stroud cause **** Stroud. Why would the player give a ****** about Stroud and his handle bar mustache? Someone seriously needs to tell that douche he's not Dorian.

[Vicarious117]

It has been 10 years since the HoF ended the Blight so they would be in their late 30's - Early 40's thus they are becoming close to Duncans age (the age of the Calling) and are becoming corrupted by the Taint.

 

You do know that the ONE thing the Warden gets to do in this game is go on a journey to cure The Calling, or at least combat it, yeah?  Bioware has specifically given the Warden a role that has single handedly disproved your reason for not including them.

 

Just saying.

 

I like how they gave us the option close off Hawke's story in the fade sequence. My only complaint is that they shouldn't have made it a choice between Hawke or Stroud cause **** Stroud. Why would the player give a ****** about Stroud and his handle bar mustache? Someone seriously needs to tell that douche he's not Dorian.

 

It can be Loghain or Alistair instead, ya know lol

[Gamyu]

No, he is referring to SWTOR, the online MMO.
 

Spoiler

Revan makes a brief reappearance and is killed off promptly.

 
It was one of those "whaatttttt??" moments.

I am referring to SWTOR Revan, more specifically the new Shadow of Revan expansion where Revan is trying to kill everyone with his huge army and the Jedi and Sith need to join force to bring him down.

[MadMaximoff]

Fine.

Then in Dragon Age Online: Expansion - Return of the Warden Commander, somehow the warden didn't die and is turned evil against the Thedas realms and the Darkspawn. Now you must lead your faction to stop him from achieving godhood and destroy all realms.

Fan service = more subs = profit!

Nailed it.

[Jouni S]

Nonsense.  The reason that choice isn't in the Keep is because the ramifications are discussed in DA2 already, and therefore doesn't need to be carried forward.  If the Keep was able to import its world state into DA2, that would be a different case, but those threads were tied off already.  Whether one thinks the ramifications of that choice were satisfying is on the player (I was fine with the Chantry being to powerful for Alistair to simply tell them that their rules don't apply in his kingdom) not Bioware.

DA2 deliberately ignored most of the player choices that went too far from Bioware canon.

Consider a Mage Warden who always chose the dialogue options that supported mage freedom, even if it meant fighting for it. He made his best friend the King of Ferelden, and they're still on good terms during Act 3 of DA2. His LI became the Left Hand of the Divine, and they're apparently still together at the time of DA:I. The guy who controls most of Chantry's lyrium supply got his throne because of the Warden, so the Warden would have a major asset in his hand against the Templars.

This all doesn't really make any sense. Would such a Warden really give up all his hopes and ambitions and still remain friends with Alistair, and not even join the Mage-Templar war when it later starts? Or is it more likely that Bioware just ignored all the extreme choices, because they didn't want to write several completely different DA2s for players who made different choices in DA:O?

DA2 was so badly railroaded, because Bioware realized that the open ending in DA:O was a huge mistake. If they want to make more games that happen shortly after the previous games, player choices can't have a significant impact on the world.

[Kimarous]

If I'm going to be completely honest, I'd rather let the Hero of Fereldan pass into myth and legend, never having their ultimate fate spelled out. Did s/he manage to get rid of the Calling? Did s/he fail in doing so and ultimately succumb? Has he returned to Morrigan and Kieran? Does a mysterious figure secretly bed Divine Victoria? What news is there from the Crows? Alistair seems to have disappeared from public view... connection? Despite Anora finally bearing a child, she's been very coy as to the father of her heir. The Wardens of Fereldan have appointed a new Commander, and life goes on.

 

Would people be satisfied with that? Idle rumours that suggest possibilities that could allow for either a tragic or happy ending?

[Kajuana]

Does a mysterious figure secretly bed Divine Victoria?

 

Blasphemy!!!

[sylvanaerie]

You were a lowbie too.

 

So in direct analogy, in Dragon Age Online, on one of the quests as a Grey Warden, you rescue the Warden Commander from a time freeze trap in some dungeon, a millenia after his disappearance. The Warden Commander happily reunites with his wife Morrigan, now 1030 years old, then declares he will help you in your cause to save the world.

 

Then, on one of the level 30 (when max level is 50) quests as a Hurlock Alpha on the Darkspawn side, you are sent in to murden the Warder Commander, Morrigan. The two love birds explode into a strong burst of light just before they die.

 

That's the last you will EVER hear about the Warden Commander.

 

1) I pictured a "Flemeth looking" Morrigan who is over 1000 years old and giggled at the image of the warden wiping drool off her chin and trying to find enough moisturizer to be able to just kiss her without crumbling her skin to dust.  What makes  you think she will stay young forever?  Her mother didn't have that secret any more than Morrigan would (since Morrigan will tell you she recalls her mother being young, with long black hair much like herself) at one time.

 

2) My warden was a female Surana who romanced Alistair, not Morrigan...how would she fit in this scenario?  See where there is an issue here?  What you describe fits only one aspect of the warden's story, and to make it fit, they had to 'canonize' who the warden was.

 

Players are whiny enough about their wardens.  Could you imagine the backlash that would happen if they did include them with some canonized fate?

One issue with Revan is many people made female Revans.  To make the character fit their world they had to 'canon' that Revan was a male (and the Entity defaulted to a female).  This especially gets confusing when Satele Shan (the Jedi Grandmaster) is his descendant with Bastila.

 

And his fate ends up being more horrible than anything anyone could have head canoned for him/her.

[Kajuana]

1) I pictured a "Flemeth looking" Morrigan who is over 1000 years old and giggled at the image of the warden wiping drool off her chin and trying to find enough moisturizer to be able to just kiss her without crumbling her skin to dust.  What makes  you think she will stay young forever?  Her mother didn't have that secret any more than Morrigan would (since Morrigan will tell you she recalls her mother being young, with long black hair much like herself) at one time.

 

2) My warden was a female Surana who romanced Alistair, not Morrigan...how would she fit in this scenario?  See where there is an issue here?  What you describe fits only one aspect of the warden's story, and to make it fit, they had to 'canonize' who the warden was.

 

Players are whiny enough about their wardens.  Could you imagine the backlash that would happen if they did include them with some canonized fate?

One issue with Revan is many people made female Revans.  To make the character fit their world they had to 'canon' that Revan was a male (and the Entity defaulted to a female).  This especially gets confusing when Satele Shan (the Jedi Grandmaster) is his descendant with Bastila.

 

And his fate ends up being more horrible than anything anyone could have head canoned for him/her.

 

Well, that was just an analogy to SWTOR, where the Exiled One became female. ~,~

Personally, I have no problem with canonizing characters, as long as you don't destroy their legacy with some weird story...

Hence, I agree with you letting the two fade into the background.

 

Scary thought:

So a lonely sad Warden who finds all that he/she has cared for has perished to time, therefore turns evil, and decides to ascend to godhood to revive his/her companions. He/she is half way and has already become a glowing transgender being.

Players will need to form a 60 man raid with Tier 3 gear to defeat him.

[DarkSpiral]

DA2 deliberately ignored most of the player choices that went too far from Bioware canon.

Consider a Mage Warden who always chose the dialogue options that supported mage freedom, even if it meant fighting for it. He made his best friend the King of Ferelden, and they're still on good terms during Act 3 of DA2. His LI became the Left Hand of the Divine, and they're apparently still together at the time of DA:I. The guy who controls most of Chantry's lyrium supply got his throne because of the Warden, so the Warden would have a major asset in his hand against the Templars.

This all doesn't really make any sense. Would such a Warden really give up all his hopes and ambitions and still remain friends with Alistair, and not even join the Mage-Templar war when it later starts? Or is it more likely that Bioware just ignored all the extreme choices, because they didn't want to write several completely different DA2s for players who made different choices in DA:O?

DA2 was so badly railroaded, because Bioware realized that the open ending in DA:O was a huge mistake. If they want to make more games that happen shortly after the previous games, player choices can't have a significant impact on the world.

I don't understand why don't think any of that makes sense.  You list a series of choices, many of which I've made, and then say...nothing.  Why are those extreme choicees?  I see no reason why the Warden you describe would not be friends with King Alistair, for one.  Or why you think Bhelen is in any way indebted to the Warden.  They had a deal, and they both held up their ends of it, deal done.  Why exactly would that deal have any bearing on the single most profitable export the dwarves have?  It would not.  Not for a ruler looking to expand his people's influence, rather than pull inward as Harrowmont does.

 

DA2's plot has next to nothing to do with DA:O's, which is why many of the choices made within it that seemed important in the moment aren't impactful to a story happening in another country across the sea.

 

All of which likewise has no bearing on your statement that DAI take place in an alternate world version of Thedas.  They came up with a perfectly valid reason why the HoF wasn't in Ferelden or Orlais when the Mage-Templar war broke out: The Hero is on a journey west, seeking to cure the blight from his blood and avoid the Calling.  And, in fact, they didn't even need that.  The Hero is, first and foremost, a Warden.  If he or she ahd simply not been involved in the war, it is because the order of Grey Wardens stayed the hell out of it.

In this case the Hero was gone, possibly in order to avoid any issue with them being potentially enslaved by Cory.

[Jouni S]

Would people be satisfied with that? Idle rumours that suggest possibilities that could allow for either a tragic or happy ending?

In the interests of continuity, I'm willing to choose a "lone wolf" figure as my canon Warden. He beats the odds and saves the world, but once the crisis is over and everyone goes on with their lives, he discovers that he doesn't fit in, and moves on. However, I don't like the idea that the Warden just fades into obscurity. His story should continue in the background, but just in a different part of the world than the game, so we'll only hear vague rumors of what he has done this time.

As a side note, DA:O really has three main characters: the Warden, Alistair, and Morrigan. While we experience the story from the Warden's point of view, it's just the first chapter in a bigger story, and the other two usually end up being more significant in the long term.

[Jouni S]

I don't understand why don't think any of that makes sense.  You list a series of choices, many of which I've made, and then say...nothing.  Why are those extreme choicees?  I see no reason why the Warden you describe would not be friends with King Alistair, for one.  Or why you think Bhelen is in any way indebted to the Warden.  They had a deal, and they both held up their ends of it, deal done.  Why exactly would that deal have any bearing on the single most profitable export the dwarves have?  It would not.  Not for a ruler looking to expand his people's influence, rather than pull inward as Harrowmont does.

We have a major character with well-established goals, a reputation as a hero, a lot of personal power, a history as a successful leader and politician, and many hugely influential friends. A few years pass, and nothing comes out of this. The story doesn't even acknowledge the situation in any way. It's just bad writing.

So either the writers are just plain bad, or they deliberately chose to ignore the world branches that were too different from the default.
 

DA2's plot has next to nothing to do with DA:O's, which is why many of the choices made within it that seemed important in the moment aren't impactful to a story happening in another country across the sea.

There are some connections that can be significant, if the player made certain choices in DA:O. The Mage Warden I described earlier would be a significant connection, as could be some Dalish Wardens who decided to establish a new Elven homeland. If major changes happen in Ferelden due to the Warden's actions, Kirkwall is so close that the impact would be felt there.
 

All of which likewise has no bearing on your statement that DAI take place in an alternate world version of Thedas.

Every game of DA:O happens in an alternate world version of Thedas. Some of those alternate worlds continue into DA2, branching further into many more alternate worlds. Some of those continue into DA:I, and so on.

[Bfler]

The search for a cure of the Calling in Inquisition is stupid. I want a last final mission in the Deep Roads against hordes of Darkspawn. There he can fight and die like a true hero, similar to Grunt at the end of the Aralakh mission in ME3, only without survival this time.

[Silcron]

1) I pictured a "Flemeth looking" Morrigan who is over 1000 years old and giggled at the image of the warden wiping drool off her chin and trying to find enough moisturizer to be able to just kiss her without crumbling her skin to dust.  What makes  you think she will stay young forever?  Her mother didn't have that secret any more than Morrigan would (since Morrigan will tell you she recalls her mother being young, with long black hair much like herself) at one time.
 
2) My warden was a female Surana who romanced Alistair, not Morrigan...how would she fit in this scenario?  See where there is an issue here?  What you describe fits only one aspect of the warden's story, and to make it fit, they had to 'canonize' who the warden was.
 
Players are whiny enough about their wardens.  Could you imagine the backlash that would happen if they did include them with some canonized fate?
One issue with Revan is many people made female Revans.  To make the character fit their world they had to 'canon' that Revan was a male (and the Entity defaulted to a female).  This especially gets confusing when Satele Shan (the Jedi Grandmaster) is his descendant with Bastila.
 
And his fate ends up being more horrible than anything anyone could have head canoned for him/her.

The thing is that it wasn't Bioware who canonized Revan, it was Lucasarts. They tend to do that (with the new movies they've said that only the last TV shows and the movies are canon). It isn't as much Bio's fault as they were forced to acknowledge that Revan was male and romanced Bastila. At least with the Exile they just canonized she's Meetra Surik (probably picked for the ingame char creator) and they haven't said a word about romance or decisions.

What I want to point out is that forcing canon is more of a Star Wars thing, in DA at least is up to them and they seem to be trying.

I think the problem is that the Warden was the one we got to customize the most and he's the one people are more attached to, so of course you don't want the Warden to just banish, specially with the surviving the ending options and now that Fiona has been brought to the mainstream source of info (before she was just a character in one of the books, not everyone reads them.) And so people will ask, why Fiona and not my Warden? Why can't my Warden come back to be an older badass like Canderous? If only they hadn't introduced the Taint inmunity they would have the perfect answer to not bring the Warden back, but they did.

[Fishy]

It just a bit silly that all these character from previous game are in the new game, but the most important character of the previous game is gone missing.

 

They should just remove Morrigan,Leliana,Alistair and every other companion you have in inquisition to make sure they don't reappear either. Just give them some quest to the west. Leliana could be on a quest to save the nug from a plague killing them and Morrigan trying to learn the scret of dragon morphology inside a hidden cave below the ocean floor. 

 

Now now.. If you romance IB and he reappear in the next game.. Is he gonna say something like - My love is gone missing on a quest to the South !!

 

It just get a wee bit dumb.

[KCMeredith]

It just a bit silly that all these character from previous game are in the new game, but the most important character of the previous game is gone missing.

 

They should just remove Morrigan,Leliana,Alistair and every other companion you have in inquisition to make sure they don't reappear either. Just give them some quest to the west. Leliana could be on a quest to save the nug from a plague killing them and Morrigan trying to learn the scret of dragon morphology inside a hidden cave below the ocean floor. 

 

Now now.. If you romance IB and he reappear in the next game.. Is he gonna say something like - My love is gone missing on a quest to the South !!

 

It just get a wee bit dumb.

I wish BW would just give these characters their deserved rest and send them off into the sunset. They've proven that they don't have to rely on old fan favorites and are capable of writting new and interesting characters (IB, Cole, Solas etc.) Don't kill them, don't mention them, just let them retire and disappear from the main plots.

[Tevinter Soldier]

my warden just wants to settle down and help raise his kid now that he heard morrigan almost got him killed and flemmeth is back.

 

don't give in bioware let my warden retire in peace or face his destiny in the deep roads. hopefully DA4 is set another 10 years from now, you reach out to the warden and receive a letter.

 

dear, sir madam.

 

I am now over 50 although i understand everybody in the entire world is not as good as me the sole arcane warrior left in the world, ender of blights, hero of fereldon and warden commander. however I'm getting old and no longer have any desire to gallivant around saving the world. in addition to my age i'm afraid i cracked a rib killing some zealots that heard i destroyed the urn of sacred ashes........... and before you ask yes i did that, i hate your useless chantry and anything to do with the maker. so find someone else to bother i will not to respond to any further letters.

 

Regards,

Hero Of Fereldon.

 

PS: whatever you do, do not contact hawke. the man is a walking disaster and will likely **** everything up. i heard he tried to help the Inquisitor and like a coward abandoned one of my warden collogues in the fade. (although i've also heard reports that he conceded he's a threat the safety and security of those around him and thus agreed to stay in the fade himself, these reports caused a run on life insurance companies through the free marches as ton's of people no longer felt the need to be covered) whatever the truth as you can see this is not man you want anywhere near you, plus he sounds like a dick. 

[Beomer]

There isn't much left to speculate on HoF's final fate now, considering the way BW are going. They solved the OGb issue by having Flemeth take his soul. A big plot point goes BAM. Not an issue any longer. They gave you a choice to kill off Hawke. Another big 'plot point' from a past game that could have potentially become an issue later in the series.

Now they have told us that the HoF is out to look for a cure to the Calling. Does not take much to just say that they failed to find a cure and went for their Calling. The end.

It is going to be disappointing sure, I would have liked to see the HoF get a happy ending with their LI (and in case of HoF/Morrigan, their son), but I doubt it is going to happen. They can probably do it with a simple letter/note like they did in DAI, but considering how much this issue has been brought up and the chances it might crop up again in the future, BW will just end up killing them offscreen, like the OP fears.

[dsl08002]

The thing is that it would be very difficult to set a personality for the hero of ferelden as an NPC, It would be simpler to write conversation options then let us take controll over HoF as PC.

[KCMeredith]

There isn't much left to speculate on HoF's final fate now, considering the way BW are going. They solved the OGb issue by having Flemeth take his soul. A big plot point goes BAM. Not an issue any longer. They gave you a choice to kill off Hawke. Another big 'plot point' from a past game that could have potentially become an issue later in the series.

Now they have told us that the HoF is out to look for a cure to the Calling. Does not take much to just say that they failed to find a cure and went for their Calling. The end.

It is going to be disappointing sure, I would have liked to see the HoF get a happy ending with their LI (and in case of HoF/Morrigan, their son), but I doubt it is going to happen. They can probably do it with a simple letter/note like they did in DAI, but considering how much this issue has been brought up and the chances it might crop up again in the future, BW will just end up killing them offscreen, like the OP fears.

Hopefully they just don't mention them again and we can make up our own story. Bioware killed enough characters I care about, let me at least have that.

[Bfler]

The thing is that it would be very difficult to set a personality for the hero of ferelden as an NPC, It would be simpler to write conversation options then let us take controll over HoF as PC.

 

Why? Ten years have passed since Origins. A person can completely change the behavior in such an amount of time and therefore every personality is possible.

[n7stormrunner]

who wants to bet the cure for the calling quest will kill em... or s/he just never comes back.

 

it doesn't matter what bioware does some people will demand the warden returns even if the hadfound him/her dead in the deep roads or a calling dlc. probably by sayng he lived some how or it wasn't their warden.

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest everything is possible now it seems they try to canonize warden personality (sad but true) in his/her letter even if it didn't fit character you have created.So i won't be suprised if it will end on Revan.

[Beomer]

To be honest everything is possible now it seems they try to canonize warden personality (sad but true) in his/her letter even if it didn't fit character you have created.So i won't be suprised if it will end on Revan.

IKR, what's with the whole 'your worship' thing? A snarky dwarf warden who starts out by calling Cailan 'human king' will never call the Inquisitor 'your worship'.
But I loved how they referred to past romance with tid bits of dialogue. Morrigan mentioning that the note the warden sends to her was so risqué that it would've made Leliana blush made my day.

[Wulfram]

I think Bioware were planning to do something more substantial with the Warden then backed out of it. Hence why they went from "disappeared" to just being on a quest and still contactable.