273 réponses à ce sujet

[Zered]

I was referring to an earlier post which compared the Qunari to the Islamic world...

They remind me more of the Ottoman Empire

[omgodzilla]

They remind me more of the Ottoman Empire

 

Yeah I mentioned that it would be more appropriate to compare them to the Middle East back when it was actually a competent rival to European powers. So back when the Ottoman Empire and the Caliphates were at their peak. The Ottomans are a somewhat decent comparison if Tevinter is compared to Byzantium and the rest of Thedas is basically Europe. 

[omgodzilla]

Seheron, Kirkwall, Rivain. Every instance that they (or at least the Antaam) get exposed to a different culture, they start to churn out significant numbers of Tal-Vashoth.

 

Yet, they are still more competent and powerful than any other nation in Thedas. Tevinter has been trying to take back Seheron for decades with no success. The bottom line is that even if they aren't perfect, there is no single nation that can realistically compete with them.

[The Baconer]

Yet, they are still more competent and powerful than any other nation in Thedas. 

 

That is yet to be demonstrated.

[omgodzilla]

That is yet to be demonstrated.

 

They conquered huge chunks of Tevinter, Rivain, and Antiva. It took three exalted marches to drive them out of mainland Thedas. And even then, the nations of Thedas had to sign an agreement with them instead of using military force and the Qunari still received some land in exchange for the cessation of hostilities. It only took them three years to retake Seheron from the Imperium and in the decades that followed, the Imperium has been unable to get it back. Sure, Seheron is still unstable and by no means, safe, but capturing and holding it for so long is still more than what Tevinter was able to accomplish against the Qunari. No other nation in Thedas seems as impressive. 

[Vicarious117]

So, to be honest thought this thread died out after I got those few initial posts.... but then some moron posted about the Qun equating to Islam..... who the f*ck is dumb enough to think that?  Just saying, hope that was a troll to get people riled and not your actual opinion, or you my friend need some basic education.

 

Anyway though, just wanted to say how hilarious I found most the posts, people are taking this way more seriously then I had expected lol

[Thane4Ever]

Has anyone ever gotten this quest before Here Lies The Abyss?

[Biotic Flash Kick]

the qunari dont honor alliances. [this comes from sten IIRC]

alliances are worth the paper they are written on and not much else

 i dont want them getting footholds in southern thedas and the chargers are just good to give up. Plus i love the side missions they give.

 

SAVE KREM + CHARGERS EVERYTIME.

 

even in my evil playthrough i saved them. 

I was like: inquiz is the biggest ******* ever.

he conscripted the mages and has made every mage sitting in judgement become tranquil.

NOPE STILL SAVING THE CHARGERS.

[SiIencE]

I honestly don't see a benefit to having an alliance with the Qunari, in my 1st playthrough i did let the chargers die but beside 1 mission to destroy some stuff i didn't see much happening at all or got that much out of it. So this time i'm gonna save the Chargers.

 

To be honest neither of them seem to make a difference in the long run? Only Bull seems to be happier in some of the video's i saw, and even though i chose the Qun the first time Bull did stay in the end.

 

So i'm not sure if this is just to 'shock' people into 'omg save the chargers' or 'omg they died for a boat and Qun people are mad now!', on top of that i am doing this quest pretty late into the game (lvl 23 now just fiddling about with the war table see if anything pops up) and i'm able to solo anything in that region (As a KE even the dragon) so how did we lose again? Hell i only brought Bull and me as mage and we just paved the way with dead dead people.

 

And since i killed the 'Arishok'? in DA2 for being a ****** and a smartass i don't mind a few of those Qun dieing. Sten however wasn't a complete ass, so... yeah hard to say.

[JadeDragon]

While I saved The Chargers the fact that they are 6 elite mercenaries and they get destroyed by 6 vents bothers me more. They are not a group of scouts they are mercs fighters warriors. Maybe not front line but they should be able to hold there own against not only our main enemy but a small squad of them at the least. The chargers party is pretty balanced to they have at least one of every class there and your telling me that if I can kill 6 or more vents with a party of 4 or less that I am suppose to have 100% faith that a group we recruit to our cause cant do the same? Your the leader of a new organization and other then when we 1st met the chargers this is our 1st time seeing them in action on there own and we want them to run away from only once again 6 vents. They can complete all the war table missions they want if you can no do your job when your boss is watching you how can i believe you are worth risking a 1st time alliance with the Qun? Lets put ourselves in Bull's shoes. Take only 6 of our party members or even 4 and replace them with the chargers and we are watching them fight the same amount of vents that killed the chargers would telling them to run even come to mine or would you know that they can get the job done? The chargers did not even kill a single vent either all 6 walked to where they was and all 6 was left standing while our 6 all failed even when they had higher ground with range units in there party they had the advantage to win. I by no means hate the chargers i actually love them hence why they were saved but on my 2nd time around idk what ima do with them still showing I care for them and Bull but we are trying to save the world and the chargers just showed me I need to leave them at Skyhold when we got to the Arbor Wilds.

[KyanMehwulfe]

Okay lets see, if you cement your alliance with the Qun, on the bodies of the Dead chargers which i did you get a nice Schematic and War table missions.

 

More specially, you get T3 Rare Schematic Masterwork Archon Staff, which is one of the best mage staves in the game. You get this reward later in the mission sets. During the Destroy Venatori Spy Network, around the Nevara mission or just after. Alternatively, i guess chest farming in Emprise du Lion or Hissing wastes if you think you're lucky.

 

Concerning the War table missions, you have two sets. You Save Denarim from being burned which is the first set. I think the other prereq to this set is also saving the monarch from being assinated. I think this set is Three card mission. The second set of missions is to Destory the Venatori Spy Network in Southern Thedas which i think from memory is around 6 of 7 card missions. Depending on your choices throughout that set, you can totally suceed or just land a major blow.

 

As for why i chose the alliance over The Chargers. Well it was because i wanted the Naval and Intelligence Assets of the Ben hasrath to help crush the Venatori. The Qunari are not invading in the game, right now it's just pure speculation. The Qunari could of invaded when the Arithok took over Kirkwell if they wanted too but didn't. Which leads me to think all three leaders of the Qun have to agree, the Arithlok was essentially a Rogue Agent and didn't get permission to do what he did. He got pissed and just attacked over years of being prodded by the anti qunari elements in kirkwell of the years. Also during that time he didn't forcibly convert anyone to the Qun. The Ben hasrith agents are not forcibly converting anyone (Gatt mentions this). None of the war table missions indicate any qunari invasion plans or forced indoctrination. 

 

So with no evidence of an incoming Qunari invasion, since it's just speculation, i saw no reason not to take the alliance. As The Iron Bull says, leaders have to make the hard choices. Let the chargers live was the easy choice for the inquisitor personally. The Harder choice is allying with the Qunari against a common enemy. This choice is better for the Inquisition Organistion even if my inquisitor hates/dislikes the Qun. If any invasion does happen the future, my inquistor will happily go on the front lines and crush them all and use the Inquisition organsation to do the same thing. The Philosphy of the Qun didn't play any factor in my decision making process.

 

 

Okay with The Charges Mercenary company, i remember doing those missions before totally allying with the Qun. I held off doing Iron Bulls quest until i unlocked Abbor wilds so i did every charger mission before that point. To unlock The charger missions, you have to complete a story mission then talk to Krem as ask how to use them. Every story mission unlocks one. Most of them were just one stand alone wartable mission. The Mage or templar choice unlocks a chain with one mission being available after you pick a side and then another after haven. Even the Abbor Wilds had a Charger mission (Sister went that route). The Charger missions didn't unlock any Chains like Qun missions did if you allied with them.

 

However i'm not sure if you unlock one after you complete the last mission which technically is a story mission. And you can talk to them after defeating Coryheus but if you didn't do iron bulls companion mission, you would be locked with The Chargers. I would have to double check with my sister since she did that path. I don't remember the rewards being that interesting or the missions themselves that interesting compared to the Basalt-an Qun Set. Example would be after you complete Adamant fortress, you can get them to demolish it. Only misions i found interest form them was when you investigate what happened to the other side. If you pick mage, you sent them to explore the templar castle. I didn't get any T3 schems from those any of the charger missions. If you compare the number of Charger missions to the the Basalit-an Qun ones, There was more on the Qun side. 

 

Essentially if you stick with the Chargers you don't get anything extra, you just get their mission unlock after you complete a story mission. Same as before.

 

If you wanted too, you could hold off doing Iron bulls personal quest until after Abbor Wilds and get all the Charger missions up until that point, then afterwards ally with the Qun and do the Basalit-an sets, if you wanted to get the most out of those missions.

 

As for Leliana, i dunno and blood thirstiness, most of the time in general i did choose her option since it was the best, however for some missions you fail really bad if you do her option lol.

 

Thank you. I basically read a few other threads and every page of this thread looking for just this post. Quoting for anyone else looking less for philoshophical debate and more about just pure gameplay effect. Huge thanks for posting that because I spent almost 2 hours on my phone trying to find any post on this while my TV screen idled on my choice haha so thanks a tonne

 

What I've learned basically, in sum, is that the only real unique thing is the War Table 'Spy' operations (5 op chain).

 

All the Charger ops you can get by just delaying Demands of the Qun and doing it after you've already done all Krem's ops.

 

And you can do the 2nd Qun op chain (the Hunter Fell one) also by just waiting do to the Demands of the Qun.

 

Further, the staff you get from the 1 unique op chain can technically also be found in random tier 3 chests in... Western approach and that snowy Orlais area... it's just rare and unpredictable (so the op chain is a much easier way).

 

Lastly, graphically, saving the Chargers keeps those unique art assets (sort of, the other Chargers are generic) in Skyhold, but sacrificing them adds no new art... no new qunari, no new ships, etc anywhere at Skyhold, forts, etc.

 

So, assuming you save Demands of the Qun until after the last Krem/Charger op and also after you've done the Hunter Fell ops, and assuming you don't mind getting the staff from either the op or random chests... then the main gameplay decision is either 1 unique 5-chain op or basically having extra mercs in your tavern

 

 

i wish the tarot cards were better... sacrifice makes IB look like a peon standard bearer and save makes him weepy... wish the save tarot card had him standing with his mercs

[deerstop]

I don't care about some alliance, but I couldn't kill the people on the ship. I'm sorry for Bull's men, but there's a whole ship with people. Love the Chargers but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If I cannot make such a simple decision (saving many vs saving 6 soldiers), then I don't deserve to command the Inquisition forces.

[Rorschachinstein]

I don't care about some alliance, but I couldn't kill the people on the ship. I'm sorry for Bull's men, but there's a whole ship with people. Love the Chargers but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If I cannot make such a simple decision (saving many vs saving 6 soldiers), then I don't deserve to command the Inquisition forces.

 

There is no compromise with Oxmen, you fool.

[Mann42]

Unless it's my bleeding-heart cuddly-wuddly Inquisitor playthrough or my Romance the Bull playthrough, I respect them to do the job they signed up to do.

 

The Chargers are professional mercenaries that know the risk of their work. I expected them to be able to handle an equal number of Venetori, and they couldn't. If they can't pull their weight in the Inquisition enough to handle a small Venetori strike team, then all they're good for is distracting and keeping up the morale of Iron Bull, which ultimately has limited usefulness unless I plan on romancing him.

 

Personal feelings are all well and good, but this is a war. I'm not going to coddle a group of drunk mercenaries that can't pull their weight, especially at the loss of the naval and spy forces of an entire nation. They were given a job, and if they die in order to do it, then I will mourn their loss and honor their sacrifice however I can, but I'm not going to coddle them.

[ThreeF]

I don't care about some alliance, but I couldn't kill the people on the ship. I'm sorry for Bull's men, but there's a whole ship with people. Love the Chargers but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If I cannot make such a simple decision (saving many vs saving 6 soldiers), then I don't deserve to command the Inquisition forces.

 

Bull charges weren't just 6 soldiers, you just get to meet 6 of them, sort of like the inner circle.

 

This choice would be even more interesting if one of the introduced charges (the blond rumored heir to the throne) was Alistair the drunk.

 

I saved the charges, because a)Qun was being manipulative, b)Qun's influence on Bull left him with all sort of bad personality traits and that had to stop, and it was clear that he wanted out. c)Krem is too funny to die.

[Yumakooma]

Its a tough choice thats for sure, I ended up picking the option which led to the death of the Chargers. A shame that there was no way the mission could be considered a total success. I felt it was more successful though with the sacrifice of the chargers, my Inquisitor got what he wanted from the mission except it was at a cost.

 

Maybe next time I play, I'll choose the other way, depending what kind of character I want to build around that inquisitor

[Kenshen]

I don't care about some alliance, but I couldn't kill the people on the ship. I'm sorry for Bull's men, but there's a whole ship with people. Love the Chargers but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If I cannot make such a simple decision (saving many vs saving 6 soldiers), then I don't deserve to command the Inquisition forces.

 

Yeah only a ship full of people ready to slap chains on you and sell you to the highest bidder.  Unless you are into that they are not worth saving.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah only a ship full of people ready to slap chains on you and sell you to the highest bidder.  Unless you are into that they are not worth saving.

While they ARE probably ready to slap chains on you if it suits them, they're more likely to force you into the Qun and make you one of their brainwashed lackeys. That's not really better, but I like technicalities XD

[deerstop]

Yeah only a ship full of people ready to slap chains on you and sell you to the highest bidder.  Unless you are into that they are not worth saving.

 

It's not an army that comes to conquer my lands, they are my allies on the ship. We had an agreement, we had a plan, and I promised to help with the operation. I can't abandon everything and kill hudreds of people on the ship to save some mercenaries, no mater how likable. I can't save my friends and abandon hundreds of warriors that expect me to follow the plan and not chicken out if things go wrong. It's just an outrageous decison strategically. Leave the post to save some lives? That's not how things work on the battlefield. If that happened in the Roman army, every tenth soldier would be executed as a deserter.

[CVigilantia]

It's not an army that comes to conquer my lands, they are my allies on the ship. We had an agreement, we had a plan, and I promised to help with the operation. I can't abandon everything and kill hudreds of people on the ship to save some mercenaries, no mater how likable. I can't save my friends and abandon hundreds of warriors that expect me to follow the plan and not chicken out if things go wrong. It's just an outrageous decison strategically. Leave the post to save some lives? That's not how things work on the battlefield. If that happened in the Roman army, every tenth soldier would be executed as a deserter.

 

The Qunari are allies like the Imperium of Man can "ally" with the Tau. At best, you're killing problems for them and dying in the process so your invasion and subjugation are easier. (This of course depends on your inquisitor. Maybe your Inquisitor really likes the Qun and romanticizes it.)

 

Besides, that plan of theirs? Their screwup. I trusted their supposedly "amazing" spy network and it got the details completely wrong. It was supposed to be light resistance, not "your inquisitor who's killed dragons can't take these numbers on". Also, you can't take the Inquisition's armies because the Venatori would see them but a platoon of rangers would have been fine (Leliana, I choose you! Sorry Cullen, the Qun says you sit this one out). At worst, I could at least take the 4 MP characters that sit outside Cullen's tower with me. A contingency of 4 extra people isn't that much more.

 

A military contingency in case things go bad? That's something you plan for right? It wouldn't be so bad if it was MY plan I made with Cullen/Leliana, not the plan the Qunari handed to me and said 'trust us."

 

Besides, the fact of the matter is that it's not if but "when" Red Lyrium makes it to Tevinter. That shite is basically a nicer version of Tiberium and spreads like crazy. However, there's a difference between a special battalion of Red Lyrium soldiers and an army of them. No matter what happens, if Tevinter gets Red Lyrium then the Qunari will suffer and 1000+ soldiers will die in battle against Red Lyrium mages/soldiers/slaves.

 

If anything, it would be in the Qunari's interest to continue negotiations for an alliance with the Inquisition. They see their soldiers as tools for the Qun. Well, the soldiers on the dreadnought gave their lives for your alliance and solidified it with their deaths. If they withdraw from negotiations now they're wasting their lives for nothing and Tevinter still gets their "nukes" so to speak.

[deerstop]

The Qunari are allies like the Imperium of Man can "ally" with the Tau. At best, you're killing problems for them and dying in the process so your invasion and subjugation are easier. (This of course depends on your inquisitor. Maybe your Inquisitor really likes the Qun and romanticizes it.)

 

Well if they break the treaty, I can always tell them that we don't have an alliance any more, right? But at this point in time I see no reasons to doubt them. On the contrary, their new Arishok probably loves humans, because he's clearly Sten from DAO. Jokes aside, it's mentioned several times that Qunari are willing to create the first true alliance in the history of Thedas. At least give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Agreed about the shitty plan, though. Good point. It's their screwup. So much for the great Qunari spy network! Unfortunately we still have "a ship with hundreds of allies on board" versus "a group of several likeable people" situation. The decision to save many stands.

[Bigdoser]

Well if they break the treaty, I can always tell them that we don't have an alliance any more, right? But at this point in time I see no reasons to doubt them. On the contrary, their new Arishok probably loves humans, because he's clearly Sten from DAO. Jokes aside, it's mentioned several times that Qunari are willing to create the first true alliance in the history of Thedas. At least give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Agreed about the shitty plan, though. Good point. It's their screwup. So much for the great Qunari spy network! Unfortunately we still have "a ship with hundreds of allies on board" versus "a group of several likeable people" situation. The decision to save many stands.

Er no even Sten the current arishok considers the warden Kadan he ever says that he won't look for you on the battlefield hell even bull has no illusions that the Qunari are going to invade eventually and in the scenario they do conquer it looks pretty grim for most of our companions. 

 

As CV said I am not paying for their screw up with my best men, me and bull kept saying this plan is risky bla bla bla and the Qunari are like trusts are broooo nothing will go wrong! 

 

Then it DID go wrong and they want me to pay for their **** up. 

[Sugram84]

Er no even Sten the current arishok considers the warden Kadan he ever says that he won't look for you on the battlefield hell even bull has no illusions that the Qunari are going to invade eventually and in the scenario they do conquer it looks pretty grim for most of our companions. 

 

As CV said I am not paying for their screw up with my best men, me and bull kept saying this plan is risky bla bla bla and the Qunari are like trusts are broooo nothing will go wrong! 

 

Then it DID go wrong and they want me to pay for their **** up. 

well u do have good point, even i don't like that choice much but:

 

if there is impact to the game u see it in DA4, u wont see impact of awry mission in DAI, some u see only in DA4 or maybe even in DLC

 

in most of my saves i have let them die, if u ask why, then i say, that what a good leader would do, they knew the risks when the singed in & became Bull's men, & u can bet that meany soldiers even in real life have died cause of that, cause of orders not to retreat, the thing is u have no idea what happens cause of ur decision of saving bull's men, it could be ferry bad, like red liryum finding its way to more people & more people die cause u did not had the guts to do hard choice, who is not willing to make the hard choices if not fit to rule, ruling is not for soft people, & world leaders know that well, even they are face to face with them time to time & the ones who know it best are the dead leaders

 

some call letting them die a bad choice, i will try this with my bad inquisitor, well that line made me laugh a bit, neither of the choices is bad in DAI, but in DA4 saving the men mite have bad  consequences like i mentioned before, also u can bet that in that ship there are more people then Bull's men

[BAC PARTY CITY]

wow talk about a lose lose situation.

 

I just loaded a previous save and am skipping this altogether.

 

So basically I either sentence some of my best soldiers to death or ****** off the Qunari, creating a potential new enemy and losing what would be a great alliance for the Inquisition.

 

Skipping this, so skipping this

[Sugram84]

wow talk about a lose lose situation.

 

I just loaded a previous save and am skipping this altogether.

 

So basically I either sentence some of my best soldiers to death or ****** off the Qunari, creating a potential new enemy and losing what would be a great alliance for the Inquisition.

 

Skipping this, so skipping this

truth is they want to test Bull, cause they doubt in hes loyalty, it was never about the alliance, & second they have always been ur enemy, their coal is to convert all, few of my chars allied with them just cause to beat the enemy u must know the enemy & best way to learn about the enemy is Allie with enemy, keep ur friends close & enemy's closer , & some chars saved Bull's men