273 réponses à ce sujet

[rufusrain]

Also, since I haven't really gotten very far after getting the Qunari alliance, anyone care to share what it gives me?  Just more war table options?  At least some dialogue outside of the Bull himself perhaps?

 

 

Both seems not to give you anything but for lore I choose the Qunari alliance as they never had one before.....and I feel like there should have been a Qunari storyline like the mages/templars or grey wardens etc. not a lame side mission they state how big that the Qunari never had an aliiance before is......Thats freaking huge and could have an very imporant outcome but..as it is just a small side mission I dont think it ever will be mentioned again exept for a line like "That happend"

[BAC PARTY CITY]

truth is they want to test Bull, cause they doubt in hes loyalty, it was never about the alliance, & second they have always been ur enemy, their coal is to convert all, few of my chars allied with them just cause to beat the enemy u must know the enemy & best way to learn about the enemy is Allie with enemy, keep ur friends close & enemy's closer , & some chars saved Bull's men

 

lol. oh this didn't help my decision at all. Still ignoring this quest. It's a shame because I like Bull but I feel bad whatever decision I make. So........ IGNORING. 

[Rayban87]

I have chosen both saving the chargers and letting them die and after some thought I think I'd rather stick with saving them.

Don't get me wrong, I hardly use Iron Bull at all and have little care for Krem or the group really.

I know I'm missing out on such a good staff schematic but on the basis of role play this is the reason why.

 

Back in DA:O it is pretty much fact that the Qunari ARE GOING to try invade.  No questions about it and we get another confirmation of that in DA 2.  Even Sten says to the hero of Ferelden that he hopes they don't meet in the battle to come hinting at the inevitable attempt of the Qunari trying to take over the world (lol sounds funny).

On that basis I already know for a fact that this "alliance" is nothing more than a convenience to them and for a group that goes on about honour in battle and blah blah blah, everybody knows they'd be the first to betray an alliance at the drop of a hat.

For me, I have no time for people who I already KNOW have no concept of loyalty outside their own and so in the long run they really serve no real purpose to the inquisition.

 

Another separate reason:

Don't the Qunari come across a little ... anti-women?

Like they can't separate gender from roles.

I don't know the story of the Qunari outside the DA games but I remember hearing something about how if a woman fights she is no longer considered a woman in the Qunari but is seen as a man because only 'men' fight...

If that is the case, then sorry but I have no interest in allying with a group that archaic in mindset.

I'm not a woman or particularly feminist but even I know that's a stupid mindset.

[Woozilla]

Quests like this bother me so much.  You weren't even getting attacked!  If you choose to sacrifice them, you just sit there watching.  Everybody was holding the idiot ball on that one.  There were a dozen solutions that could have saved everybody.

That's just the typical Bioware Cutscene Gimpness. That's perfectly normal ...

[LeinadSemrig]

I like how this decision brought me back hard to the beggining of Dragon Age: Origins.  I was faced with sparing my people, or sacrifice the army I had pledged to protect.  While obviosluy not a one-to-one comparison, it definitely made me re-examine my opinion of the much-maligned Loghain MacTir.  While I still believe Loghain was motivated more by personnal gain than it was a purely tactical decision, I really had to weigh my options and consider what his character did before allowing the chargers to perish.  We had a misison, they knew the risks going in.  If they can't defend themselves, that's on them I'm afraid.  I really wish there was a way to prepare the chargers (a la ME2) so they would at least partially survive this encounter.

[Shahadem]

Whether you know the outcome or not, I can't understand the position of all the anti-Qun folks.  If you were anti-Qun, why did you choose to even start this mission?  If you really wanted nothing to do with the Qun, you would have declined their help when Bull first offered.  Given that, it seems a bit revisionist to try and justify compromising the mission with the justification that you would never be helping the Qun anyways. 

 

Because we were using the Qunari. It wasn't an alliance, it was mutually beneficial information sharing.

 

But the entire scenario completely ruins any feeling of making an important choice because the Chargers should have easily been able to take out the 3 Venatori mages, we should have been able to bring more ships, the Qun ship should have been able to handle the Venatori ship no problem, our mages should have been able to freeze the 3 Venatori mages. Nothing in that cutscene worked.

 

I will also point out that the Qun navy has been fighting Tevinter ships with Tevinter mages on them for years, so there is no way that the Qun ship wasn't going to be able to handle itself here.

 

This was one of Bioware's worst false dichotomies.

[Cozmikitty]

This is my 2nd play through, and I allied with the Qun the first time. And now I'm trying to decide which way to go. The Qun are brutal, want domination and are ruthless. Is that the way the type of leader I want to be? No. I have been researching this for days but knowing how The Bull is after, I have a hard time going through this the same way. The missions that become available after Wicked Eyes & Wicked Hearts (if you choose the Qun) are: Failed Assassination Attempt, Follow Venatori Assassins, Stop Venatori Ship, Find Spies in Skyhold, and Opening the Roads. If the Chargers survive: Inflate Inquisition Numbers & Follow Venatori Map become available after "What pride has Wrought". So from a tactical standpoint, alliance with the Qun is the way to go. But I just hate doing it. And it's also saving The Bull from becoming Tal-Vashoth. I tried to see if there was any way to switch positions, or refuse to go, but there's not really.

[trevelyan_shep]

Honestly, I'd rather watch a ship full of Qunari burn then align myself with the atrocity that is the Qun.

[Bad King]

I sacrificed the chargers. You save hundreds of Qunari soldiers and establish a key alliance with them. This allows you to collaborate with the Qunari military in saving the city of Denerim and purging the Venatori from Ferelden.

[Medhia_Nox]

I think the scene would have been better if the Qunari dreadnought was going to bombard the shore regardless... and you can chose whether to abandon or save the Chargers. 

 

If you save them - you cut a swath through the Venatori (which should have been much much larger in number) and get a cut scene where you cut and run out of the bombardment with the Chargers.  With them not focusing on soldiers on the shore - they turn their mages to the Dreadnought and sink or chase it away.  Alliance broken because you didn't serve the Qun properly (which is what that entire quest is about - it's not Bull serving the Qun, it's the Inquisition serving the demands of the Qun)

 

If you leave them - you stand ineptly by and watch as they get mowed down with the Venatori... "alliance" intact.  

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Part of being in a management position is finding and adding greater talent to your team.

 

And, one of the harder parts is letting go of those who served you well, but whom you cannot keep around alongside recent additions.

 

The Chargers are professionals and I think they recognize this. Cole confirms that the Chargers accepted their deaths with pride. Tough to let go of people you like, but, I think an equal number of Qunari soldiers would have performed better against the Venatori than the Chargers did. At that point, well...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Professor X:  The concept is sound - if you don't consider the Qunari alliance is a sham.

[The Baconer]

One thing that has come to mind recently is that the general goal of excising the Venatori from the Coast is unfulfilled, regardless of the player's choice. Both options end with ceding the the field to the enemy, though in preserving the alliance it is just assumed that the Qunari will continue their operations against the Venatori on the sea. 

 

The inevitable losses are the product of Qunari ineptitude in both planning and execution. The scope of the Venatori presence was unaccounted for, apparently too large for the present forces to commit to and rout. It is also demonstrated that a Dreadnought's doesn't have the effective range to attack a stationary target anchored along the coast, without itself being vulnerable to a counterattack from the shore.

 

So, IMO, f*** 'em. I did a fine enough job on my own in erasing all Red Templar and Venatori presence on the Coast, and beyond. All without having to expose myself and others to Qunari filth. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

@Professor X:  The concept is sound - if you don't consider the Qunari alliance is a sham.

 

I am not inclined to, no.

[Shahadem]

 Part of being in a management position is finding and adding greater talent to your team.

 

And, one of the harder parts is letting go of those who served you well, but whom you cannot keep around alongside recent additions.

 

The Chargers are professionals and I think they recognize this. Cole confirms that the Chargers accepted their deaths with pride. Tough to let go of people you like, but, I think an equal number of Qunari soldiers would have performed better against the Venatori than the Chargers did. At that point, well...

 

From what I saw, the Chargers are about as close to being professional mercenaries as I am to being a billionaire.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

From what I saw, the Chargers are about as close to being professional mercenaries as I am to being a billionaire.

 

Cullen's words, not mine. He says something to the effect of the Chargers being very professional despite their appearance otherwise.

[Shahadem]

Cullen's words, not mine. He says something to the effect of the Chargers being very professional despite their appearance otherwise.

 

Cullen isn't exactly the world's best Templar so that isn't saying much. Especially since they really failed to show any semblance of competence.

 

While there is a difference between acting like a professional soldier and performing like a professional soldier, Bull's Chargers fail at doing both.

[PsychoBlonde]

It's the demand of the Inquisition that the Qun sucks it. As far as I can tell, I haven't lost anything particularly meaningful after the destruction of the Qunari dreadnought. Seems to me that only the oxmen lost.

 

 

My reasoning was this:

 

1.) The Qunari came up with a very dicey plan and insisted on doing it that way as their condition for forming an alliance.

2.) I have a responsibility to my people to keep them alive if at all possible.

 

Therefore:

 

The Qunari get to pay the penalty for the reversal of their crappy plan.  Sorry folks, but I don't send people who have volunteered for my service into certain death over a fleeting tactical advantage.  Come up with a better plan next time and we'll talk.

[thats1evildude]

The qunari can eat me. Save the Chargers.

[Darkstarr11]

I don't like sacrificing MY people for someone else's people when the other guy has a reputation for 'burn, slash, forcibly convert'.  Chargers worked for the Inquisition for a while.  Loyal guys.  The Qunari pop up, say that we can have an alliance.  Okay, sure, but when it comes to crunch time, they say 'sacrifice your guys for ours'.  You mean, the guys I know, might even be friends with?  I lose so you can gain?  I'm sorry, where do I tactically gain from that?  Even if I do so, I've still lost out.  Every mission from that point forward WILL BE for the Qunari's gain.  This works in their favor.

 

Oh yeah, and I kill off one of my companions teammates.  I leave good people to die for a cause they don't even believe in.  Sorry, no.  Chargers proved themselves time and again (they killed the Envy demon...if they can do that, they are tough).  A politician sells out good people to make bad deals...and I don't play the Inquisitor as a politician.  I'd rather have the moral high ground, thanks.  Otherwise, I'd be Duchess Florianne.  

 

Wearing a pine coat.  

 

On Tour.

[BAC PARTY CITY]

I still refuse to do this quest. I've done every other quest but this one. I detest no win scenarios.  This and sacrificing Hawke or that Grey Warden were forced scenarios.  I'm the Inquisition why didn't I bring more troops?

[Encaitor]

I know saving the Dreadnaughts opens up the War Table missions to save Denerim. If I save the Chargers will Denerim burn down for sure? 

 

Can't let go of my attachment to DA:O :'(

[sjsharp2011]

Most of my quizzy's choose to keep the chargers at the expense of the alliance as they don't fully trust the Qun and it's motives especvially after reading Varric's book about Hawke. I think maybe 1 went for the Alliance but the others didn't.

[Encaitor]

Most of my quizzy's choose to keep the chargers at the expense of the alliance as they don't fully trust the Qun and it's motives especvially after reading Varric's book about Hawke. I think maybe 1 went for the Alliance but the others didn't.

Do you know if this affects Denerim? Will it automatically burn down if you save the chargers. In the war table mission you can prevent the city burning down if you choose the Qun.