So anyway, I just played this mission. Save the dreadnought. I cannot think of one good reason to renege the mission plan. Not one.
I got another reason. You have an Inquisitor who hates the Qunari, is on the fence of having an alliance, and is just being formal and hearing out their enemy's plan. And when the chips are down, they decided then and there don't want an alliance with the Qunari, they want them destroyed and allow the Venatori to do it.
Honestly, I would have just preferred to go "Bull, they're your men. What do you want?" As, unless you're totally CHARGERS WOO or QUN WOO... this decision has the biggest effect on him.
It's astounding how many people are in favor of a culture that forces anyone who happens to be born a mage to be turned into something worse than a slave. Under the Qun mages have their lips sewn shut, and they live their sad lives on a literal leash. Until I got on the forums I had no idea how many people were in favor of subjugating an entire set of people over an accident of birth.
There is no reason to ally with the Qunari, at all, for anyone who values the basics of human freedom. Be pro-Circle all you want, there's a difference between 'watchful guardians' and 'brutal overseers.' To everyone saying Bull is worse off Tal Vashoth, did you try? His great fear is not that having the Qun will suddenly turn him into a mindless monster, because ... why? Because that's what they're told. It's ridiculous. Not having a religion to oversee you does not instantly make you a mindless monster, and Bull learns this if you free him from the Qun.
He thanks you for helping him become a better man; he appreciates being given a choice with his life in his final speech. His tarrot card is noticeably better if you save the Chargers. It looks worse, yes, but the actual tarot card it is is the Wheel of Fortune. It's a card for good luck, for destiny, for a turning point in someone's life. His card with the Qun? The Ten of Swords, a card for betrayal, backstabbing, defeat, endings and loss.
I honestly have no idea how anyone could think the Qun is better, for Thedas, or for Bull.
Yup pretty much my reasoning for saving the chargers and knowing the general meanings behind tarot's helps as well.
I got another reason. You have an Inquisitor who hates the Qunari, is on the fence of having an alliance, and is just being formal and hearing out their enemy's plan. And when the chips are down, they decided then and there don't want an alliance with the Qunari, they want them destroyed and allow the Venatori to do it.
That pretty much resumes my Inquisitor (all 3 of them), Venatori are the main threat now, Qun is the "long term threat".
Honestly, I would have just preferred to go "Bull, they're your men. What do you want?" As, unless you're totally CHARGERS WOO or QUN WOO... this decision has the biggest effect on him.
They may be his men, but they are your employees. The Chargers aren't hanging around for the ambience and friendship - you hired the mercenaries to fight for the Inquisition, and you are in command.
Would The Iron Bull still respect you after you displayed such failure of leadership and abnegation of responsibility?
I got another reason. You have an Inquisitor who hates the Qunari, is on the fence of having an alliance, and is just being formal and hearing out their enemy's plan. And when the chips are down, they decided then and there don't want an alliance with the Qunari, they want them destroyed and allow the Venatori to do it.
Turning down an alliance is one thing. Creating another enemy (by granting your main enemy victory) is simply asinine.
Turning down an alliance is one thing. Creating another enemy (by granting your main enemy victory) is simply asinine.
They may be his men, but they are your employees. The Chargers aren't hanging around for the ambience and friendship - you hired the mercenaries to fight for the Inquisition, and you are in command.
Would The Iron Bull still respect you after you displayed such failure of leadership and abnegation of responsibility?
But the Qunari are already an enemy in this Inquisitor's eyes.
Then there should have been no deliberation about the potential alliance. You do not offer one to your enemy.
Yes, he thanks you for helping him become a better man outside of the Qun.
That is what he does when you, as leader, make the choice to save his men without abnegating your responsibility as leader by asking him to choose for you.
A handful of fun mercenaries is not worth losing an entire spy network and dominion over the seas. I love the Chargers dearly, but the Inquisition needed the Qunari.
Do they? You can still beat the game and the endings paint a nice picture even without the alliance. It's nice to have, but it's not needed.
That is what he does when you, as leader, make the choice to save his men without abnegating your responsibility as leader by asking him to choose for you.
You do know some people are not going to play the Inquisitor as the grim, results first, military mastermind right? Some of them treat the Inquisition as a merry band of adventures that they don't want to see hurt.
If you want to be a military leader of a multi-national organization that's fine, but others just want to have a mountain club-house for men and you sound like a jerk by trying to force people to play a certain way.
You do know some people are not going to play the Inquisitor as the grim, results first, military mastermind right? Some of them treat the Inquisition as a merry band of adventures that they don't want to see hurt.
If you want to be a military leader of a multi-national organization that's fine, but others just want to have a mountain club-house for men and you sound like a jerk by trying to force people to play a certain way.
It wasn't even a choice. Bull had a life with these people, and these people I know personally. The Qun I only know by having a murderous Arishok create chaos in Kirkwall, by the horrible mutilation of their mages and soviet style totalitarianism. Sure Communism also afforded some minorities like women advances at that time unavailable to other minority groups (just like the Qun "save" elven slaves from Tevinter lands), but as a net judgement I see the Qunari alliance at the expense of the charges as something not worth it at all.
And it turns out I face Corypheous with only 3 other people, so it's not like a Qunari alliance would have helped and Arbor Wilds was resolved with my normal army.
I'm jumping in late here, and haven't read all the posts, but heres my two cents.
First of all, this choice is foreshadowed in haven. When talkling to The Iron Bull, he talks about how the Qunari pick their leaders by choosing those who are willing to make the tough decissions and live with them.
Second, the Qunari have never had an alliance with anyone. Ever. The Inquisition (if you choose to save the dreadnaught) is the first. This shows that the Qunari are not set in their ways entirely, perhaps this alliance can help change their minds about those outside the Qun. After all, the Qun is a religious text that is interpreted by the Ariqun, maybe the Ariqun decides "oh these guys aren't so bad after all, lets stop being giant horned jerks". In fact, I wonder if its only the military that demands such focus that they all seem stoic and whatnot. The Iron Bull says that they ALL give eachother nicknames under the Qun, which shows a feedom of thought and expression. No, they don't get to choose their own jobs, but the ones that choose the jobs seem to be good at their jobs. And I have a feeling that if a qunari thinks he can serve the Qun more effectively in another role, he can request a job change.
Thirdly, this all takes place after you gain the ability to open rifts that suck up bad guys. WHY NOT JUST DO THAT!?!
Gatt: "You need to do whats right Hissrad, for this alliance and for the Qun"
The Iron Bull looks at the inquisitor
Inquisitor: "This is why people don't like the qunari, you don't think outside the box." *opens fade rift on beach
BAM! Chargers saved, alliance intact, and you taught The Iron Bull a little something.
So anyway, I just played this mission. Save the dreadnought. I cannot think of one good reason to renege the mission plan. Not one.
Just thought up another reason. You have the conversation option "Gatt, we can salvage this." I can easily see an idealistic Inquisitor making a bad call and trying to have their cake and eat it too by trying to save the Chargers and the Dreadnought/Alliance at the same time. Like the Hero of Fereldan can save Connor and Isolde by going from Redcliff to the Circle to get help.
The main story had no points where you 'failed' after Haven and each main mission was just dunking on Corypheus' plans. Stopped the Demon Army, stopped Red Templar and Venatori operations, you can even beat Celene, Gaspard, and Briala at The Game and force all three of them to work for you. After doing all that, I can easily image any Inquisitor would feel a little full of themselves and could easily think they can save the Chargers and still salvage the alliance, only to get royally humbled when they can't. If you wanted setbacks, failing to get an alliance with the Qun because you thought you could do everything would be a good place to have it.
So...this is a bit of metagaming, so sorry about that (Ignore this if it bugs you too much! 
). But I'm curious how the choice may change the actual game...And this may be a spoiler, but I don't know if it is at this point because I think it's been mentioned in the thread already? But let me know and I'll try to figure out how to do the spoiler hide thing! (No idea but I'll make it work if I need to haha)
Basically, from what I gather, if you save the Chargers, you lose out on missions that would come with choosing the Qun, which includes a quest or two with Tallis?
Also...I know the romance with Bull can continue if you save the Chargers, but if you side with the Qun, can you still romance him?
No reason to ally with the Qun seeing as how they don't believe in allies. I'll get Iron Bull's loyalty now that he has nowhere to go and owe me for saving the Chargers. Plus, taking a valuable secret agent and the dreadnought away from the Qun is always a plus. Even though I don't dislike the Qun and even find it fascinating, I'll be damn if I let the Qun takes over.
Why are people equating an alliance with the Qunari to the Qunari invading? That's not how alliances work. Nations that work together are more likely to continue working together in the future, and not invade each other. If the Qunari feel they can have a friend in the rest of Thedas, well, that's how you start stepping down the hostility between them and start integrating them into the rest of the world. Besides that, you can really, really not want the Qunari to invade - and there's a lot of really good, really simple reasons to not want that - and still be okay with them having their own state, and be happy working with that state. An alliance between the Inquisition and the Qunari doesn't put the Qunari in charge of Thedas, nor does it really even strengthen the Qunari - if anything, they put a lot on the line for the sake of stopping Corypheus, when they're the nation in Thedas that's probably the least immediately threatened by Corypheus. They come to you with an offer in good faith, and if you push that away out of blind hatred, you're only hurting yourself, not the Qunari. This is not a choice between "The Qunari conquer everything" and "All Qunari must die". There's a lot of room between those two.
It should go without saying that there's no "right" way to play the game. If you're roleplaying an Inquisitor that doesn't like the Qun, or doesn't trust the Qun, or is very sentimental, or you otherwise intentionally make a bad call for roleplaying reasons, that's between you and your character, and that's fine. That's not what the disagreements here are about.
I can see how the conversation may have gone with the Inquisitor's handlers..
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Josephine: Cullen, please. We have discussed this before. The Inquisitor does not gallivant, nor is he slow. He is, what was the word we decided to use, Lilly?
Leliana: He acts with deliberation and arrives in the nick of time.
Josephine: Exactly so. And we always use the correct words, even in private. Loose lips sink ships. Pray continue, Cullen.
Cullen: It is funny you should say that. The Inquisitor arrived in the nick of time, just as the Venatori ship was sailing in, and there being no time for extensive planning, he agreed to the Ben-Hassrath's hastily drawn up plan of action. Our forces had to hold two key positions on the beach to prevent Venatori mages on land from interfering with the Qunari dreadnought swooping in for the kill on the Ventatori ship. A simple mission even with the Inquisitor insisting on bringing only minimal forces, as he always does. Remind me why he always does that.
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