273 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Whether you know the outcome or not, I can't understand the position of all the anti-Qun folks.  If you were anti-Qun, why did you choose to even start this mission?  If you really wanted nothing to do with the Qun, you would have declined their help when Bull first offered.  Given that, it seems a bit revisionist to try and justify compromising the mission with the justification that you would never be helping the Qun anyways. 

 

I played a devout Andrastian (and thus mildly anti-Qun) Inquisitor who sacrificed the Chargers.

 

In the end it was a choice between a valuable alliance or a band of mercenaries. The Inquisitor has no love for the Qunari state or religious philosophy, but they've got a large and powerful fleet that could interdict Venatori reinforcements at sea and an extensive spy network that would be useful in weeding out and eliminating the Venatori's own spies. The fleet in particular seemed important as far the story goes (obviously not in gameplay), since the Inquisition was exclusively a land-based force.  It was a marriage of convenience but a much more strategically important relationship than the tie to an entirely replaceable and expendable band of mercenaries.

 

The only reason to save the Chargers would be personal attachment to Krem or the other members the Inquisitor shared drinks with, but that's just not a very compelling reason when weighed against grand strategic considerations.

[OHB MajorV]

I'll state this again, bull isn't happy if he becomes Tal'vashoth, even if he despises some of the Qun he still knows it defines him and he's a proud Quanari. I understand both options, but bull is in a lose lose here so I choose to let him keep his roots in tact on the chance he ever wants to return home.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Han Shot First:  Saving the Chargers doesn't mean you don't have a "Grand Strategic Vision" - it means your vision and my own are just different. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

An excellent point I read someone make on this matter a week or two ago; the Qunari's intel was bad and they refused to let the Inquisition help in any way that could've prevented this situation, and now they want my men to pay the price when all the mistakes have been theirs.  If that's their idea of an alliance, they can kiss my ass anyway.

 

Whoever made that excellent point truly does not understand the concept of risk, or military necessity. Gatt explained why the Qunari wanted limited forces on the ground (to avoid alerting the Venatori). Obviously going in force would have assured minimal casualties, but, it would have almost certainly led them to flee with their shipment, the ramifications of which were very grave. I wonder if this supposed person also tells Leliana that her people are not expendable while routinely getting Inquisition agents and soldiers killed off-screen in authorizing various war table missions. Or maybe they avoid said missions if casualties are expected, at the expense of strategic objectives. Seems silly to me, though.

[berelinde]

This one is hard. The Qun means a lot to Bull, but his Chargers mean more. Maybe I'll roll an Inq one day who can sacrifice the Chargers for the sake of religion, but it isn't going to be today.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

you don't choose anything in the Qun. the Qun changes you. in the south the capacity for change exists. under the Qunari, there is only the Qun.

its not some communal hang out where everyone is equal at all.

 

you do as your told or get the zombie juice. the end.

 

the amount of people who would surrender even the ability to think for themselves frankly scares the **** out of me.

 

You said this earlier and I was just thinking about it again. Thinking about Tallis in particular, from MotA. Does that person seem to you like someone who's been brainwashed and changed into a totally different person? Somehow I doubt that her personality was of their making.

[Ferivain]

Saved the Dreadnought and Saved the Chargers in multiple saves. The game does not give all the options that could give both, but this mission is more about Bull than The Inquisition.

 

After both I believe in saving the Chargers. Now I've noticed some people are bringing real world alliances and military situations into their reason so here is mine.

 

The Ben-Hassrath want a small team, which we agree with. Then once positions are taken suddenly their intel is wrong and there is far more Venatori than thought. Now because of their mistake I must lose part of that team or let them suffer the mistake and lose their ship. Lose of life aside the mistake was on them, they insisted a small force claiming it would tip of the Venatori otherwise. True a marching army would have, but I have the Blades and Scouts all over the Coast they could have been slipped into ambush with the Chargers and not tipped them off, just a few archers would of helped the Chargers. So now I wonder was it a mistake or did they mis-intel on purpose to force the Chargers to die in order to regain Bull completely? To me this is a complete tactical blunder on the Ben-Hassrath and requires a withdrawal on my end. Also the Chargers are an elite group, each a specialist in some way, thus making them more valuable to your organization over the standard soldier. Given that this game is in a medieval era setting that makes them even more valuable, since that set of skills is not a common sight and harder to gain. Military loses are expected, and a Commander knows they will happen. But a good Commander would also see something is wrong with the situation and withdraw.

 

Now to the political aspect. I just threw away an alliance with a super power against a mutual foe, a foe that is short lived. The Inquisition is fighting the Venatori, not all of Tevinter so the alliance will only last a very short time. Then I now have to take into account the effects that short allianced had, how do my actual neighbors still loyal to the Chantry view allying with the Ben-Hassrath? Most likely they aren't pleased, and now I am under a close watch of people that can cause me problems. Then what will the Qunari claim that alliance allowed them? Do they demand having troops in Inquisition bases? These options may not appear in game, but they are options I consider. Brief alliances often are a mask behind true intentions, and former allies of convenience often become enemies later. Shortsightedness results in very unforeseen futures, a leader needs to think not only of the moment but the future. Allying with the Qunari does not benefit the future of the Inquisition, and in fact can turn those it works with directly into enemies.

 

Also this is a medieval era game not a modern era game. Political and military alliances have a far more serious impact during those eras. Supporting a rival of one noble makes an enemy of the other. Supporting the Ben-Hassrath puts the rest of Thedas on edge about you, especially if you play anything but a Human Templar. None of this may appear in game but these are things I consider since my Inquisition is being built not only to stop Corypheus, but also create a better world, and hard to encourage change if people distrust you. You just have to look at recent history to see the damage a former ally against a greater foe can cause. If you want to compare decisions to the real world take into account the era. In such a time allying with the Qun would be political suicide, and sacrificing such a skilled force when your possible ally blundered the intel would hinder your forces. Plus since this mission was about the possible alliance, and the alliance wasn't already there I view that they should have taken more steps to prevent loses on both sides. If a few Chargers, Blades or scout archers had died okay, but to lose them all because they Ben-Hassrath didn't get it right and have enough support as well....If I lose forces so should they. The quest is called Demands of the Qun that alone makes me doubt the value of the alliance. 

 

Alliances and missions are sacrificed over beliefs, and to save lives through out history. If that wasn't the case wars would be short because everyone would be killed in a single battle, and everyone would be at peace. But then if you want your Inquisitor to be seen as a tyrant and warlord make the alliance and send troops directly to their death, there is a difference between a death in the line of duty and a death on a suicide mission.

[Rogue Master]

this mission is really brilliant in my opinion.

they let you know the charger and make you love them first (at least I love the chargers), then ask you to sacrifice them in order to gain an alliance with Qunari, a powerful ally.

Of course I couldn't sacrifice them, I want The Iron Bull to be free and can life honestly without the Qun and fully dedicate himself to the Inquisition.

and I still can't believe there's people who prefer to sacrifice the chargers although I tried that to know what will happened and in the end I prefer the Bull and his chargers over the Qunari.

Although his card become seems desperate, I still think that he would be happier this rather than being a tool for the Qun.

[Lillithe]

Don't forget that they go all circle of magi on every new born, and kill mages who are unattended for any length of time, and to top it off since they train for their chosen(by some one else) they may very well have a bunch of kids being assigned to and trained for what amounts to being communal love slaves,

This...

Since I never felt I had the right to chose for Bull, I hated this quest because it was and never should of been my choice. I sacrificed the Chargers as for me, if I am building an army I can't just have ground troops and expect to win. I need control of the Seas especially since the enemy had control of the skies. The entire purpose of the mission was to work together and put aside my biases or whatever, they don't ally, apparently red lyrium on the lose, big hole in the sky kind of altered centrist perspective of the Qun. If i  in that context decide that a few outweigh the benefit of the many I don't deserve to be a leader. Again my view on things.

 

I don't personally see what all the fuss is over the Qunari. How can one call the Qun more evil than any other variant of religion going on here. Seems there are really only two major ones> The Qun and the Andraste/Maker the Chantry and Tevinter both believe but see the doctrines differently. They are at least honest about what they do. There is no illusions on place and Iron Bull pointed out life is pretty much no different than life in Val Royeaux. The religious factions in the world of Dragon Age seem pretty much similar to me. They all have bad points and none are perfect.

 

Qunari, followers of the Qun are communal, where they believe the society trumps individuality and all must work towards whats best for the many not the individual. At least that is how I read it. Could be wrong since I never went to in-depth. They fear mages, like every other religious aspect (minus Tevinter) sew up their mouth and placed them on leashes to control them. Not sure how the entirety of the race is since we really only know two factions, the Qunari (who follow the Qun) and the Tal-Vashoth (Who broke away from the Qun). Basically everyone in Thedas, the horned race is just "Qunari" or "Tal-Vashoth", respectively as even Bull pointed out that not much is known of the Kossith origins. So we can't really talk about them as a race or their belief structure.

 

The Chantry jails Mages basically and keeps them on a metaphorical leash, has Templars and they can live their life jailed and under threat of annulment or being made tranquil if they step out of place or they act different. Also lets not forget if the Chantry sees or believes you have wronged the Chantry or they don't agree, or they want you to believe their view is right, they do the whole FU to reeducation, they just pull an exalted March on you if they feel the need is just in their eyes. They are the dominant and only religion I have really noted on Thedas, Orlais, basically Tevinter as well. They also have a form of communal raising, kids being taking since birth to serve the Seekers, Templars (Whom they drug to keep control of so leashed as well) and Circles (unless you are an apostate then you are just hunted or killed and if lucky enslaved into the circle). Ignorance and Racism runs rampant. Knife ear, ram head, etc. name calling and degrading are second nature. Elves are basically slaves, they live in Alienages (sp?) and are free to live in squalor and degraded and thought of as servants and will always be the second class citizen regardless. Unless "lucky" and become the hero of Fereldon you pretty much live as you die, in poverty serving some human to make a living. Or you are Dalish and hated and misunderstood since you don't live under human laws and regulations, just nomads going from place to place since no one really wants you around. Chantry variation on life is not much better than the Qun in my eyes. Everyone is basically the same religion . Conversion is conversion regardless of how you do it. Same thing.

 

Tevinter mages, assuming you are from the right bloodline etc rule and use said power to rule the masses. Pretty much sucks to be a mage in general unless you are Tevinter and that isn't guaranteed the good life unless you are from a good family. They use the lure of being a mage to keep the masses under control and wanting. If you arent a mage you can have hope that your kid could be. They also have a breeding "program" to get the best lineage as well. Again not much different than the Qun. They have slaves too except the Chantry variant is nicer I guess since Elves aren't technically slaves or sold into the life. They believe the same Maker/Andraste tenants but read it differently. They are at "war" with the Chantry because of their difference of opinions. Then their are the extremists the Venetori. We see how that played out. As the Inquisition we dealt with Cory but not really the Venetori threat on a whole.

 

Really when you break it down there is basically two dominant religions, with one split by how you decipher it. They all pretty much assimilate all into itself. The Qun to me are just the up and coming religion and you see they are converting those from the standard religion. To me the Qun seam easier to hate and discriminate as well since they are visually different. All the societies kind of mirror the other. I personally like the race despite not agreeing on some aspects of the known society. Wow long post but anyway that is my two cents.

[Kurogane335]

For my first -and so far sole- party I decided to let the Chargers die. WHy ?

 

1 : Because, for the first time in its History, the Qun was actually seeking an Alliance (a fact which brillantly demonstrate that, no, the Qun is not some unchanging and unmoving regime. It evolves).

 

2 : Because my Inquisitor is a Qunari (well, Vashoth but you all get it), and thus I wanted to play him as someoçne really interested in the culture that his parents left. After all, it often happens that the children of people who left a culture/country really immerse in the history/culture of said country.

 

Also, I would like to try and dispell the falsicty which his spouted by the likes of Solas : no, the Qunari aren't souless drones which never do any choices. In fact, they make a choice everytime they act. Just remember Ketojan. He was a Saarebas and he knew what awaited of him if he returned to the Arvaarad. And yet, he did exactly that. Someone wio think like Solas (the same guy who actually hate the Wardens for no real reasons -and loath the Qun only because, contrary to him, it actually manage to save the elves) would say that he simply followed some sort of protocol, but I disagree.

 

Ketojan choose to go and die. Yes, it can seems insane (and in fact, if one his being serious, well, it is). But it is a choice, nonetheless. We have seen the Saarebas from the outsiders perspective, we don't know what a Saarebas thinks about himself. WHat if a Saarebas was actually happy to be one, because it gives him the power to protect the others Followers of the Qun ? Sure, it would be a twisted happiness, but there is no reasons that it couldn't exist.

 

For me, the Qun is a twisted reflect of the Tevinter Imperium, but I would nonetheless prefer to live under the Qun, as an elf or a human (non-mages) than in Tevinter, since I wouldn't have to worry about someone who could brainwash me with a twist of his fingers to reduce me to a screaming sacrifice.

 

As a man from the XXI Century, there is some things in the Qun that strikes me as shocking, but no more than any other country or religion in Thedas.

 

Edit : Also, I would like to say that denying the fact that the Qunari are people is basically applying their logic towar outsiders to them, which, if said logic is seen as evil/bad/disgusting/etc, is incredibly hypocritical.

 

Qune = no sweets.

Uh no.

 

WIth Sten being the Arishok, I'm sure he pressured the Ariqun and Arigena, so cookies -at the very least- would be added to the Qun's list of foods.

[Decain]

My take on this matter is that you should save Chargers.

I did not, and i came to regret my decision.

I wanted to be a leader that doesn't go back on his word, a leader that sees the bigger picture and a leader that does what is necesary to achieve it!

I wanted to become basalit-an, I took sacrifice of the Chargers as an honorable death worthy of true warriors, as did the brave 300 die so did Bull's Chargers. I thought they would understand that their deaths won't be in vain and will bring us closer to the victory!

But the talk with Cole where  he said something like 'he won't leave us, he will save us, horns up! horns up! I felt incredible remorse for my actions, but i've gone too far to turn back now, I have to finish this game with regrets from the decisions I've made!

So my advice to you is 'F*ck the Qun! Bros before hoes!"

[Tirius]

As stated by others, the sound tactical choice would indeed be to save the dreadnought and thus the potential alliance. Raw numbers, there's more people on the ship than in Bull's company, and the alliance has the possibility of saving whole nations, or even a chance of lasting peace with the Qunari. I have no problem with Bull deferring to the Inquisitor to make the choice - it's obvious he doesn't trust himself with it, and the alliance is an Inquisition matter after all.

 

As for the Qun - in my opinion, that's Bull's choice. He always had the option to leave it, and while my "canon" Inquisitor likely opposes many concepts of the Qun (as a human mage), he'll respect Bull's beliefs even if he doesn't share them - though he suspects Bull doesn't care much for much of the Qun either. So the possibility of Bull being kicked out of the Qun never factored into my decision, as I suspect he'd give that up anyway to save his team.

 

Still, I had my Inquisitor save the Chargers. Partially due to personal loyalty to Bull, but also because a full alliance on such short notice - with no documents signed - is something that my Inquisitor couldn't see happening. It almost felt as a deliberate trap set by the Qunari to force the Inquisitor into making the decision that would appease them, as some sort of power play. I also like Ferivain's idea above that my other allies would have frowned on any long-lasting alliances with the Qun - Tevinter probably already dislikes us, but I can see largely coastal nations like Antiva, Rivain and the Free Marches objecting at the very least.

 

If the Inquisitor had been a Qunari, I might have felt it more realistic that he/she would try to save the ship, as that Inquisitor would understand more of the value of the alliance and would perhaps have a better chance at making it work.

 

What I missed though - was the option for a last-minute attempt at rescue by your party that could likely go horribly wrong depending on your choice of who to save. Even if I'd chosen the dreadnought, I can't see my people just standing on that hill waiting for the end. Yeah, still more drama, I know...

[Aimi]

As stated by others, the sound tactical choice would indeed be to save the dreadnought and thus the potential alliance. Raw numbers, there's more people on the ship than in Bull's company, and the alliance has the possibility of saving whole nations, or even a chance of lasting peace with the Qunari.

None of which are tactical considerations: they're a matter of high politics. Tactics are about accomplishing the mission, but setting the parameters of the mission are operational, strategic, and political concerns.

If you begin from the assumption that the mission is complete once the red lyrium shipment has been destroyed, and if you begin by rating the Chargers as more valuable than a Qunari dreadnought and the chance of an alliance, then trading the Chargers for the dreadnought is an inferior tactical option.
 

Still, I had my Inquisitor save the Chargers. Partially due to personal loyalty to Bull, but also because a full alliance on such short notice - with no documents signed - is something that my Inquisitor couldn't see happening. It almost felt as a deliberate trap set by the Qunari to force the Inquisitor into making the decision that would appease them, as some sort of power play. If the Inquisitor had been a Qunari, though, I might have felt it more realistic that he/she would try to save the ship, as that Inquisitor would understand more of the value of the alliance and would perhaps have a better chance at making it work.

And that's part of the reason why. If an Inquisitor is concerned about the possibility of a Qunari offensive against Thedas, an alliance would be a poor choice. Never mind that the Qunari are cooperating against the Venatori. To do that, they need the ability to operate in southern Thedas, which means the creation of military infrastructure and the expansion of espionage networks: the sorts of things that would become extremely useful in another holy war. Even a temporary Qunari-Inquisition alliance would have knock-on benefits and could help politically split the south. To purchase this with the blood of a skilled and loyal, if small, Inquisition force might be...silly.

Of course, that's a very big 'if'; many Inquisitors wouldn't rate the Qunari threat so highly, and so would not have a problem cooperating against a more immediate threat while dealing with the Qunari later (if they would be dealt with at all).

Personally, while roleplaying one Vashoth Inquisitor, I found it more difficult to back the Qunari alliance, not less. Vashoth Inquisitors have the opportunity to approve of the Qun in dialogue, but by default they are ignorant of it and most dialogue with the Iron Bull assumes that they are leery of it. They might be less willing to work with the Ben-Hassrath that hunted their parents, rather like the children of émigrés throughout history (from the French Revolution to the modern authoritarian dictatorships): familiarity bred contempt, not compromise.

[Asakti]

Personally, while roleplaying one Vashoth Inquisitor, I found it more difficult to back the Qunari alliance, not less. Vashoth Inquisitors have the opportunity to approve of the Qun in dialogue, but by default they are ignorant of it and most dialogue with the Iron Bull assumes that they are leery of it. They might be less willing to work with the Ben-Hassrath that hunted their parents, rather like the children of émigrés throughout history (from the French Revolution to the modern authoritarian dictatorships): familiarity bred contempt, not compromise.

 

I was really surprised there wasn't more special dialogue (or any?) for a Tal Vashoth!Qunari in that scene.  Particularly as it makes the fact that the Inquisitor decides for Bull even more disturbing.  Especially if you take into account his first comment to you when you talk about you both being Qunari, "you're not qunari, you're Tal Vahsoth".  Basically the choice of 'freedom' (if you want to look at it that way) or potentially, 'loss of identity' if Bull can't handle really being outside the Qun is left to the Inquisitor.

 

It is a very personal decision, and it sort of feels wrong that the Inquisitor doesn't have the, 'I can't make this choice', when you know it isn't just an alliance/no alliance decision or Chargers vs. Qunari decision.  That can be up the Inquisitor.  The fact that your choice will make Bull Tal Vasoth?  Deciding for him?  That really makes me stop and not want to decide.  (especially for a Tal Vashoth Inquisitor) Hrm. 

[guntar74]

Way i do this now after my first run is to get the most out of it. I will do all missions up to the last fight so I get to send all the chargers out on the after mission war table stuff, then I will go do bulls quest and let them die to get the qunari alliance. That way I then get to do all the qunari war table missions as well.

[scrapmetals]

The only Charger I really even care about is Krem. And I love and am fine with the Qun and the Qunari, so generally I take an alliance. Besides, lots of awesome war table missions.

Having thus answered OP, I will note that I have no desire to argue my own politics about loving the Qun mostly because I have no desire to get into a ridiculous flame war over imaginary video game politics.

[mfr001]

I didn't even see this as a question to agonise about. Replacing the Qunari by any faction which had not been active in the struggle already would have led to the same decision. My reasoning was:

I have been fighting against the enemy and sacrificing people since the breach opened.  Agreeing with Sera, I have seen that the battles cost the lives of the 'little people', the characters who don't even get a name, they just turn up to be shot by Red Templar marksmen or die in some other way so I can get to the more powerful enemies.

A group come asking me for an alliance. They may want to think of it as an offer, but they are not my equals in commitment to the struggle so they are the petitioners, not me. I don't know enough about them to know if they are reliable, everything I know is second hand, except what I learn from Bull, and that is just one point of view.

I wanted to see just how much they were prepared to sacrifice in the struggle, and the answer was "Not enough!".

 

I would have liked to have the option to tell them if they wanted an alliance they had to show they were prepared to make the same type of sacrifice they were asking of me, and to point out that some Tevinter mages were already providing tangible assistance to the Inquisition (my enemy's enemy could turn out to be useful).

[UnseelieSluagh]

It might be just me but I think it's more about Bull being lost and wanting Inquisitor to decide what he was and who he is now. For year he wore the merc leader mask and the line between what was subterfuge and what was true began to blurr. He has chargers from each and every race, 'look how diverse we are' to endear and put people at ease, to make it easier for him to blend in and do his Ben-Hassrath job.

He shows you that side of himself when he invites you over for drinks, and he wants you to see the other side of himself when asking for help with dreadnought. 

Bull has been broken before, now he's lost and doesn't know which side of him is true. By showing them both and conceding to Inquisitor to decide and show him the right path, he tries to fix himself the way a tamassran might have done. Because, let's face it, I don't see a guy like Bull meekly accepting Chargers/dreadnaught dying if he didn't WANT a resolution, he NEEDED a closure, someone to point him in the right direction.

Yes, either choice will have his consequences, both will hurt, but sometimes doing right by people means breaking the bone so it could reset properly. After the pain has passed, they might see benefit of the action, or they might hate you forever for it.

Bull ASKS you to 'break his arm' and whatever outcome - he is grateful, you have showed him his path, cutting off any chance of following the other. His role is clear, even if you get him from under the Qun, he still acts Qunari - I am Iron Bull, I am merc leader, this is my role. 

He is comfortable with rules and other people telling him, what direction he should go and it's only by his choice that he will succeed or fail in given role (just like any other role under the Qun).

 

This being said, Chargers are expendable and I will always happily sacrifice them for greater alliance. You might say hurr durr I r so powahfull I don'tz needz them but in reality of situation like this almost 99% of this world's powers would happily toss a group of misfit mercs for a promise of years and years of alliance even if it gets broken and your final benefit becomes knowladge of your-now-enemy modus operandi and ways to hobble them.

 

Adjust and adapt, survive.

[sch1986]

I struggle with this choice more than any other in the game I think.

It seems wrong to leave the chargers to die. But bull seems so distraught to leave the Qun. He said in one of his conversations that turned himself into the reeducators at one time, which to me says that he really believes in the Qun rather than running away and becoming Tal-vashoth. And his tarot card changes to a bloody mess after you sacrifice the dreadnought.

Yet he seems happier if the chargers are saved. I don't get it. I want to what's best for him... Yet it isn't at all clear what that is.

[Nerdage]

Eh. If the Qunari really wanted to help with the breach, they were welcome to. If their support is contingent on me treating their people as more important than my own though, then how badly do they really want to help? If war table missions are to be believed, the Inquisition doesn't even have the troops to protect its trade routes; I'm not killing off probably the most capable of my soldiers for the promise of naval support when I've yet to be convinced that that's something we even need. Save for the odd smuggler ship, which should be a trivial matter for the crown navies, does the Venatori have any kind of naval presence anyway?

 

Plus, last time the Qunari were given an inch, they tried to invade Kirkwall, which only happened a few years prior. Pardon me if the prospect of earning political points with them doesn't make me giddy, but honestly it sounds more to me like they're testing the strength of the southern nations under cover of providing support to the Inquisition, without actually being willing to place their own people on the line for the cause. If the fact that their bad information undermined a mission and their own people paid the price left them too salty to even forward intelligence that could help save the world, it sounds like they don't really understand the nature of the threat and were just looking for an excuse to have forces in the area.

 

That said, I wish there was an option to let Bull decide, or at least ask him what he would do.

[Kurogane335]

I struggle with this choice more than any other in the game I think.

It seems wrong to leave the chargers to die. But bull seems so distraught to leave the Qun. He said in one of his conversations that turned himself into the reeducators at one time, which to me says that he really believes in the Qun rather than running away and becoming Tal-vashoth. And his tarot card changes to a bloody mess after you sacrifice the dreadnought.

Yet he seems happier if the chargers are saved. I don't get it. I want to what's best for him... Yet it isn't at all clear what that is.

That's because there is no clear option which is "Good" in this choice. No matter the choice, Bull lose a very fundamental part of it. If you hate the Qun, it is easy to say that leaving it is great but the truth is that the Qun isn't worse than any other religion/philosophy in Thedas, and The Iron Bull truly believe in the Qun and its culture. But in the same time, he truly like the Chargers, they are both his families (like the soldiers in the Antaam were before he left it to become a Ben-Hassrath) and his guys. Letting them to die is hard.

 

So, his choice his basically to forsake everything he has believed since his birth while knowing that he can't ever return to the sole land where he wouldn't ever feel like a stranger and the ones he still considers to be his people will hunt him down for his action, or to let his friends, the ones he has spent the last years with, die before his very eyes.

 

If I were to make that choice, while knowing that I don't have a religion/ideology which drive me as much as he is driven by the Qun, both outcomes would be terrible for me.

[MetalGear312]

ZOMG so much this!

I'd happily send that woman to the Qun rehabilitators for a twix bar let alone anything of substance.

How could you... Not do that with every fiber of your being.

[The Antagonist]

chose to stick it to the qunari don't care about the chargers

[Navasha]

Not really much of a choice there maybe if I was playing a sadistic power-hungry inquisitor that didn't care one iota about people.   Then maybe I would ally with the Qun. 

 

Was pretty happy that an option was to save the chargers AND free Bull from the clutches of the Qun. 

[eyepoker]

Maybe I'm missing someone posting about this - but all the philosophical arguments aside, can anyone respond whether there are actual QUESTS that are eliminated from popping up depending upon which choice you make here?

I ask, because I recall SEVERAL notes from Tallis that give you missions on the map that are delivered after choosing to sacrifice the Chargers.

However, the final results of that game ended with an extremely vicious Leliana, and since I'm replaying now and aiming for a softer and kinder Leliana, I'm wondering if a) this mission will make any difference in result for her and there will be any missing map quests if I save the Chargers. And for that matter, c) if there will be any NEW and DIFFERENT map quests if I save the Chargers that aren't there if I sacrifice them.

 

Does anyone know the answer to these three things?