226 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

They're like the same game in many ways, Dragon Age 2 was probably better balanced and the abilities weren't as bloated in sort of redundant ways, it seemed to have like a better engine and was more efficient and in-depth. The storyline was a lot more beat down but it has more upbeat moments. I kind of enjoyed how kind of cool looking and feeling the combat was in Dragon Age 2, it's rare that rogues are actually fun to play.

 

The biggest problem with DA2 is probably it's tendency to invoke overly radical solutions or characters in moments of crisis.

 

Arishok, "I need the artififact, I don't like this city, it's tense and I'm waiting and-GRAH IM ATTACKING EVERYONE SCREW IT ALL!"

 

Anders, "Mages are mistreated, it's a crisis, there are problems and it seems like people don't get along, we are trying to-GRAH IM ATTACKING EVERYONE SCREW IT ALL!"

(Someone actually pointed out that Anders is basically an antagonist, which is basically true)

 

Meredith, "I have problems with mages, it's a crisis, there are problems and now a single basically unsupported Mage attacked and destroyed the entire Chantry-GRAH IM ATTACKING ALL MAGES THEY ALL MUST GO!"

 

And then one that happens at the end, all you can do is side with "mages" or "templars" Anders was the biggest problem at the end there, that was the central issue, and then secondarily Meredith for trying to punish all mages, but the way game goes you just end up fighting everyone in his huge mess.

 

Orsino is complicated, it depends on how much someone can be expected to guess about a blood mage studying necromanctic research, i.e., what they would likely be doing or how much they would know about that situation.

 

If necromancy means they probably are doing what Quentin actually did on some level, then Orsino is bad, but if necromancy just means such and such, typical blood magic research, then there is no reason to think he would of known really anything about Quentin it's probably not so big of a deal.

 

It all promotes this concept that in times of great strain, panic and irrationally blame things without tying them directly cause and effect, and blaming them which is.. really... not good.

 

It's kind at the heart of most Bioware media though and is just one of their more central flaws and weaknesses, lots of games and media have different issues though of course, some like this.

[Catilina]

The biggest problem with DA2 is probably it's tendency to invoke overly radical solutions or characters in moments of crisis.

Hard choices without some results What's the problem?

[GoldenGail3]

Hard choices without some results What's the problem?

Catilina Dont make me do this. Really; don't make me, I like you. I don't like disagreeing with people I like. But....

Let me put this delicately; I think people want a game with choices that matter, and DA games have yet to provide that. Sadly.

[Catilina]

I apologise. Just do not be sad, please

[GoldenGail3]

I apologise. Just do not be sad, please

I'm not sad actually. I just do mean it when I say I like someone though; that's the weakest behind my mask. (: It's how I role, is to snark people, get a crowd of people trying to kill me for afar while I laugh at them, and enjoy myself. Yeah; don't think I'm sad. I'm more like thinking "Dis is how the interent goes Gail, get off your high horse!"

[wright1978]

I've played DA2 more often due to its characters and story being so good despite it being very environmentally flawed. So yeah i like it marginally more.

[GoldenGail3]

I've played DA2 more often due to its characters and story being so good despite it being very environmentally flawed. So yeah i like it marginally more.

Funny thing is; I've played it and completed three times, which Is more then any of my DAO playthroughs. Though; I do nevertheless like DAO more.

[Natureguy85]

I've played DA2 more often due to its characters and story being so good despite it being very environmentally flawed. So yeah i like it marginally more.

 

I don't understand that one bit. I think both are vastly superior in Origins. I appreciate what DA2 tried to do, but it failed.

[Seraphim24]

I don't understand that one bit. I think both are vastly superior in Origins. I appreciate what DA2 tried to do, but it failed.

 

I think I was on that boat but once I thought about it more there really isn't any "failed potential" or something in DA2, it totally realized it's potential and then some. It just wasn't designed to reach for this one point, it was designed very specifically, systematically, consciously to go into a different direction. It was totally complete, in fact, I'd just wildly speculate that the shorter deadline or whatever made them make a better game, not a worse one.

 

It's a pretty amazing game honestly, the way it got railroaded was about as bad as the way FFXIV and such were treated by reviewers/fans.

[JJ Likeaprayer]

DA2 is still amazing....but Origins,come on! Origins is just INCOMPARABLE! At the very least the elves in Origins doesn't look like Avatar! But I love DA2 as a personal story,there's no blight or war,just a dark and heartbreaking history of the Hawke family...nevertheless,you shouldn't even compare DA2 to DAO,I can see you love DA2 very much,but compares it to DAO is just unfair to DA2. 

[Natureguy85]

I think I was on that boat but once I thought about it more there really isn't any "failed potential" or something in DA2, it totally realized it's potential and then some. It just wasn't designed to reach for this one point, it was designed very specifically, systematically, consciously to go into a different direction. It was totally complete, in fact, I'd just wildly speculate that the shorter deadline or whatever made them make a better game, not a worse one.

 

It's a pretty amazing game honestly, the way it got railroaded was about as bad as the way FFXIV and such were treated by reviewers/fans.

 

How so? It's a character story that skips through large, important parts of that character's life. We see a few brief glimpses into 10 years of events and relationships, which diminishes our ability to understand and feel characters' relationships with each other. Hawke is barely a protagonist and is more knocked around by events than making them happen. This can work in a story, but it's tougher in a video game where the consumer is a player and not a passive viewer. The characters were largely one dimensional and individually boring, though their interaction with each other was excellent. They do a good job of setting up both mages and templars (though I feel they tipped it a bit too far in the mages direction) but sympathy for both sides is lost when both leaders become insane monsters. Meredith at least had the excuse of the Lyrium idol, though I also hated how that dropped out of the story except for one mission.

 

The acts are structured all wrong too. The prologue is actually pretty good, though it's hard to connect with a game that kills off a sibling that is just the pokemon you didn't pick at the start. Wesley's death was actually presented pretty well. When they get into the city, we skip the first year. This is where Hawke would be scrambling to put together a new life and working in a criminal enterprise. It would have been the best place to give Carver some character. Then we'd see Hawke develop the reputation we are told he/she has in Act 1. Act 1 did a good job in connecting all the quests to the main plot in that Hawke was just out to earn money, and the events in them come back as quests later. Then we skip over Hawke and family adjusting to life in hightown. In fact they seem to be the same after 3 years. Starting Act 2, the Viscount calls on Hawke because they impressed the Arishok. Again, we're told that things are bad but we don't see much. The Qunari seem pretty content to just sit in their box. Act 2 has some highlights as well. However, we then skip to Act 3 and never see Hawke living it up as champion. Again, we're just told that people respect Hawke.  Act 3 focuses on Mage v Templars, which has been something happening in the background of the other two acts. We get frustrated with Elthina's inaction but that's not a bad thing. Then Anders ruins everything and both Meredith and Orsino lose their marbles.

 

Individually, each Act isn't bad, but they don't form a coherent whole. Most importantly, despite how this was supposed to be a more personal story, Hawke doesn't matter. Meredith and Orsino are already in conflict and Anders is the one who puts the match to that powder keg.

[Deadly dwarf]

I am on my first run-through of DA 2, so I suppose my DA 2 opinion is incomplete.  That said, I've gone through Origins several times and actually did Inquisition first, so some comparisons already come to mind even though I've only just begun Act 2 in DA 2.

 

First, in terms of story, one cannot beat the multiple stories (orgins) in Origins.  Approaching the overall story from each of the different origins really does impact the decisions you make.  Doing a playthrough with each of the origins also gives you a more thorough understanding of the world of Thedas.  Storywise, DA 2 takes a different approach by focusing on Hawk and his family.  This is not a bad approach; Origns gives you a nice overview of the world of Thedas while DA 2 gives you a more detailed look at one of its great city-states.  Inquisition, by contrast, is all about the situation -- the massive explosion and the tears in the Veil and what's behind it all.  The PC is really short-changed:  one paragraph on your background based on the race you chose for your Inquisitor.  Perhaps not as big of a problem for someone who already played DAO and DA2; you already know where the different races stand in general and can add what you like to your PC Inquisitor.

 

In terms of the fight system, DA 2 is definitely more slick than Origins.  (I was impressed that "Mind Blast" actually has an effect on enemies in DA2; that spell seems pretty useless in both DAO and DAI.)  Also, the graphics are much prettier in DA 2.  I would even say they're even better than the much vaunted Frostbite engine of Inquisition!  (I'm wondering if that has more to do with playing the PS4 version of Inquisition versus the PC version of DA2 played on a gaming desktop?)  Despite the better graphics of DA2 and DAI, the Darkspawn look lame in the two more recent games.  Sometimes you shouldn't mess with what works...  I like the greater variety of armor clothing you can choose for your PC and companions in Origins.  The "every character has his own look" concept doesn't work for me.  DA2 was really lazy in this regard by not allowing you to buy new armor for your companions.  (Only upgrades to their standard armor.)  DAI could get really funky in this regard and too many of my Inquisitors ended up stuck in "leisure suits."

 

Other than that, I do miss most of the companions from Origins:  Leliana?  Morrigan? Alistair?  I've not bought any DLCs for DA2 yet.  Are there any that I should add right away?  I know I missed on adding Sebastian since I didn't have his DLC. 

[Deadly dwarf]

DA2 is still amazing....but Origins,come on! Origins is just INCOMPARABLE! At the very least the elves in Origins doesn't look like Avatar! But I love DA2 as a personal story,there's no blight or war,just a dark and heartbreaking history of the Hawke family...nevertheless,you shouldn't even compare DA2 to DAO,I can see you love DA2 very much,but compares it to DAO is just unfair to DA2. 

 

Good point!  I hated Avatar!  Dances with Wolves -- in Space is what Avatar was!  Yeech!!!  I'm surprised there wasn't a lawsuit.

[vertigomez]

I've enjoyed all three games for what they are. I'll say that, for me, DAO's biggest strength is the way it introduces you to Thedas: the origins themselves. My canon Warden is a Brosca, and Orzammar and the Carta and dwarves in general have been cemented in my heart ever since. It's incomparable in that way, because no other game in this series will show you what it's like to grow up in Dust Town, the Diamond Quarter, as a Circle mage or Dalish elf... I never felt like I was playing a "human" game where the other races are just wallpaper for Very Important Human Business, even with the Landsmeet and all that.

On the other hand, though I've started more playthroughs of DAO, I tend to lose steam after... like, two treaty quests. It starts to become slog and it's so easy to burn through dialogue with companions WAY too fast, and I can't bring myself to replay the entire game very often. The thought of every treaty quest besides Paragon of her Kind makes me go :///////

Even though I don't normally like human protagonists, I do love Hawke. I'm still incredibly attached to him and replay his story often, from start to finish. I even find it hard to choose a different personality, class, or gender, because my first playthrough was so perfect and complete that I just wanna relive that story again and again. Similar to my Warden Brosca, I'm hopelessly attached to Hawke's family. Even Bethany who rarely survives in my games (as I usually play a mage), and Malcolm Hawke who is obviously a posthumous character. I like that Hawke feels like a real character in the world, rather than a self-insert. He's a Failure Hero who is just trying to survive the madness of Kirkwall (and his tumultuous love life. Can't forget that!).

So I love each game on its own merits, but I give a very, very slight edge to DA2 by virtue of being a more personal story with emphasis on the fact that sometimes... **** happens.

I've not bought any DLCs for DA2 yet.  Are there any that I should add right away?  I know I missed on adding Sebastian since I didn't have his DLC.

Besides Sebastian, Legacy is an absolute must-have. And Mark of the Assassin is thoroughly entertaining, but it can wait if you're on a budget.

[Natureguy85]

Other than that, I do miss most of the companions from Origins:  Leliana?  Morrigan? Alistair?  I've not bought any DLCs for DA2 yet.  Are there any that I should add right away?  I know I missed on adding Sebastian since I didn't have his DLC. 

 

The companions in DA2 were definitely not as good as Origins. I found them very flat and boring on their own. However, Bioware somehow got individually boring characters to interact in a very fun way. The companion cross talk is fantastic.

 

For DLCs, Sebastian is another character and he's ok, but like the others doesn't add a ton. He's a classic archer combat-wise. However, Legacy and Mark of the Assassin were fantastic and better than the main game. Legacy connects Hawke to some greater events in Thedas, including concepts from Origins and which carry into Inquisition. Mark of the Assassin gives some insight into the Qunari and the Qun, which is great.

 

 

I've enjoyed all three games for what they are. I'll say that, for me, DAO's biggest strength is the way it introduces you to Thedas: the origins themselves. My canon Warden is a Brosca, and Orzammar and the Carta and dwarves in general have been cemented in my heart ever since. It's incomparable in that way, because no other game in this series will show you what it's like to grow up in Dust Town, the Diamond Quarter, as a Circle mage or Dalish elf... I never felt like I was playing a "human" game where the other races are just wallpaper for Very Important Human Business, even with the Landsmeet and all that.

On the other hand, though I've started more playthroughs of DAO, I tend to lose steam after... like, two treaty quests. It starts to become slog and it's so easy to burn through dialogue with companions WAY too fast, and I can't bring myself to replay the entire game very often. The thought of every treaty quest besides Paragon of her Kind makes me go :///////

 

Well this is because, as great as the Origins are, they really don't affect the rest of the game all that much. They affect certain dialogues, but the missions still go the exact same way and your class, not origin, affects gameplay. So 90% of the game will be the same each time.

[MichaelN7]

They're like the same game in many ways, Dragon Age 2 was probably better balanced and the abilities weren't as bloated in sort of redundant ways, it seemed to have like a better engine and was more efficient and in-depth. The storyline was a lot more beat down but it has more upbeat moments. I kind of enjoyed how kind of cool looking and feeling the combat was in Dragon Age 2, it's rare that rogues are actually fun to play.

 

The biggest problem with DA2 is probably it's tendency to invoke overly radical solutions or characters in moments of crisis.

 

Arishok, "I need the artififact, I don't like this city, it's tense and I'm waiting and-GRAH IM ATTACKING EVERYONE SCREW IT ALL!"

 

Anders, "Mages are mistreated, it's a crisis, there are problems and it seems like people don't get along, we are trying to-GRAH IM ATTACKING EVERYONE SCREW IT ALL!"

(Someone actually pointed out that Anders is basically an antagonist, which is basically true)

 

Meredith, "I have problems with mages, it's a crisis, there are problems and now a single basically unsupported Mage attacked and destroyed the entire Chantry-GRAH IM ATTACKING ALL MAGES THEY ALL MUST GO!"

 

And then one that happens at the end, all you can do is side with "mages" or "templars" Anders was the biggest problem at the end there, that was the central issue, and then secondarily Meredith for trying to punish all mages, but the way game goes you just end up fighting everyone in his huge mess.

 

Orsino is complicated, it depends on how much someone can be expected to guess about a blood mage studying necromanctic research, i.e., what they would likely be doing or how much they would know about that situation.

 

If necromancy means they probably are doing what Quentin actually did on some level, then Orsino is bad, but if necromancy just means such and such, typical blood magic research, then there is no reason to think he would of known really anything about Quentin it's probably not so big of a deal.

 

It all promotes this concept that in times of great strain, panic and irrationally blame things without tying them directly cause and effect, and blaming them which is.. really... not good.

 

It's kind at the heart of most Bioware media though and is just one of their more central flaws and weaknesses, lots of games and media have different issues though of course, some like this.

There's a side quest, "The Band of Three", which is basically a series of codex entries detailing the investigations of three Seekers sent to Kirkwall.

There are several of them, and they're all out of the way, heck, you don't find the last one until the end of Act 3, when it all comes to a head.

 

In a nutshell, Kirkwall was originally built by Tevinter through slaves, which, considering Tevinter, I don't think anyone is surprised.

Kirkwall was build like a maze, to discourage revolts, but that design also had the side-effect of making it easy to do magical experiments, something many Tevinter magisters took advantage of.

We also know that Tevinter uses blood magic like frilly cakes in Orlais, but in Kirkwall there was SO MUCH of it going on, that it permanently sundered the Veil.

 

As far as the Veil and the Fade goes, we know that while mages are the ones who can actively "wield" it, everyone is connected to it in some way, even dwarves (though to a lesser extent).

 

In Inquisition, we see breaches of the Veil and the Fade, and everything coming out is "cranky", as Varric put it.

We know that spirits in the Fade tend to embody a singular concept of mortals, such as an emotion, so it fits that there seems to be no end to "crazy people" in Kirkwall, because all this angry, dark stuff happened.

 

All together, Kirkwall has practically no protection from demonic influences, because it's practically a wound in the Fade, which effects everyone living there.

It makes sense to me that Varric is the only Viscount who can actually REBUILD Kirkwall, not just because of his savvy, but because as a dwarf, he is naturally resistant to such influences.

 

That, and with the Fade more or less "repaired", it would make sense that the "disease" infecting Kirkwall is finally lifting.

[vertigomez]

Well this is because, as great as the Origins are, they really don't affect the rest of the game all that much. They affect certain dialogues, but the missions still go the exact same way and your class, not origin, affects gameplay. So 90% of the game will be the same each time.

Yes, but I find it utterly unbearable in Origins whereas knowing "90% of the game will be the same" in DA2 doesn't put me off. It's just... soooo... teeeedious to get through all those treaty quests.

[straykat]

I like the origins.. I find various ways to roleplay with them. Little things go a long way. Like my Dalish who killed those hunters in the beginning feels guilty over time. Or the Cousland who got the elf girl killed, just because he didn't see her as anything but a sex object.

 

But Hawke is way better. The whole game is practically an origin story.

[Deadly dwarf]

I like the origins.. I find various ways to roleplay with them. Little things go a long way. Like my Dalish who killed those hunters in the beginning feels guilty over time. Or the Cousland who got the elf girl killed, just because he didn't see her as anything but a sex object.

 

But Hawke is way better. The whole game is practically an origin story.

 

I think you make a really good point:  DA2 is the human commoner origin story!  And from Lothering no less!  (I thought is was funny when Hawke got a letter from Barlin, the merchant and poison enthusiast.)

[Catilina]

I think you make a really good point:  DA2 is the human commoner origin story!  And from Lothering no less!  (I thought is was funny when Hawke got a letter from Barlin, the merchant and poison enthusiast.)

I like, that Hawke not the world, only himself, and his acquaintances saved, from the mess, which they themselves did... .and even it did not succeed mostly!
 

[GoldenGail3]

I like, that Hawke not the world, only himself, and his acquaintances saved, from the mess, which they themselves did...

Lol; I don't know why I come to this thread; I'm a DA2 hater (at least I'm honest about it and don't try to hide my distain for it, lol.) But really; all the complactions in this game come from stupid companions who should've not been there in the first place (I would've Iiked the opotion to shoot Anders in the first place; so that he couldn't blow up a chantry).

I hate how my companions in that game cause bad things to occure when I can't do anything about it; I would've liked to have been able to do something. And I'm saying this as a genuine fan of rivalmanced Isabela, who causes shite all day long (at least in my Hawke's camp she does something....... Oh and that includes lots of junior Hawkes too.)

[Catilina]

Lol; I don't know why I come to this thread; I'm a DA2 hater (at least I'm honest about it and don't try to hide my distain for it, lol.) But really; all the complactions in this game come from stupid companions who should've not been there in the first place (I would've Iiked the opotion to shoot Anders in the first place; so that he couldn't blow up a chantry).

I hate how my companions in that game cause bad things to occure when I can't do anything about it; I would've liked to have been able to do something. And I'm saying this as a genuine fan of rivalmanced Isabela, who causes shite all day long (at least in my Hawke's camp she does something....... Oh and that includes lots of junior Hawkes too.)

Its not exactly true... I think: Knight Commander Meredith did so mutch for that mess too...

[GoldenGail3]

Its not exactly true... I think: Knight Commander Meredith did so mutch for that mess too...

Yeah... And it's Varrics fault ):

Which makes me sad, I love that dwarf in DA2. He was a happier camper back then...

[straykat]

Lol; I don't know why I come to this thread; I'm a DA2 hater (at least I'm honest about it and don't try to hide my distain for it, lol.) But really; all the complactions in this game come from stupid companions who should've not been there in the first place (I would've Iiked the opotion to shoot Anders in the first place; so that he couldn't blow up a chantry).

I hate how my companions in that game cause bad things to occure when I can't do anything about it; I would've liked to have been able to do something. And I'm saying this as a genuine fan of rivalmanced Isabela, who causes shite all day long (at least in my Hawke's camp she does something....... Oh and that includes lots of junior Hawkes too.)

 

It's OK if you hate it. I respect that you're honest too. At least you gave it a chance and don't completely write it off. Some people act like it's thoroughly bad, which is ridiculous.

[GoldenGail3]

It's OK if you hate it. I respect that you're honest too. At least you gave it a chance and don't completely write it off. Some people act like it's thoroughly bad, which is ridiculous.

Yeah... You should've said this to AnimalBoy and those other pissy hard core DA2 fans (who said and thought I didn't like anything about DA2....)

There's nothing more to add to this statement, really.