183 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

If i was in that leadership role i would ask the people what they want, if they dont want to drown the others out then i tell them im leaving and they can handle it on there own

If they do i then i would have a a signed account of what happened and have those that agreed to sign it and also not run away when the time for answers comes

Got off topic sorry, i had his head for he ran away, i cant stand that **** when a person can make the hard choice but cant or wont deal with the outcome

 

You would leave the village in the middle of a Blight? Alone? When Darkspawn are all around you? When you have a responsibility to the village? You'd just ignore that and run away?

[sleasye74]

Its not running when the people of crestwood dont agree with you and dont want your help, after all the people could chose a different mayor

And i know a blight was happening, thats why i think the people would agree if your straight up with them

[Andir]

I really liked this judgement because it made me pause. Yes, it's terrible that he drowned the village and innocents were lost. But in his place, my Inquisitor probably would have done the same. The village had the blight, and talking to the mayor he tells you how the people wouldn't leave/kill their loved ones who had contracted the sickness. They all would have perished. They were in the middle of the Blight as well, so it's not like outside forces could really do much because they had their own problems. Instead of letting everybody turn into ghouls and or die slowly and painfully, he did a horrible but needed action. It turned out too, because besides the fade rift, walking corpses, and bandits (which are not a consequence of the flood), the townspeople are still alive and their village surviving. 

 

So I exiled him. I only wish there were more options. Overall, I enjoyed this judgement!

[DaemionMoadrin]

Its not running when the people of crestwood dont agree with you and dont want your help, after all the people could chose a different mayor

And i know a blight was happening, thats why i think the people would agree if your straight up with them

 

You are too optimistic. The people were scared, their families and loved ones were sick and dying. I doubt you could have solved that through democracy. More likely, they would have killed you for trying to murder the infected people.

[KaiserShep]

You are too optimistic. The people were scared, their families and loved ones were sick and dying. I doubt you could have solved that through democracy. More likely, they would have killed you for trying to murder the infected people.

 

I agree. It's not as if it was something he wanted to do. I have no doubt that he actually cared about those people, but he felt they were extremely desperate. They can't flee, and they can't fight the darkspawn, so he was probably half expecting the entire town, including himself, to perish in the Blight anyway. It's very likely that his actions actually saved the rest of Crestwood.

[KaiserShep]

Overall, I enjoyed this judgement!

 

Me too. I felt pretty bad for the mayor, and was reluctant to hunt him down. I'm tempted to just leave him be, but I love the judgment scene.

 

[sleasye74]

If people are too scared to make up their minds then they deserve there fate, and if they are that desperate i think they would have agreed to flood if your influentaul enough to show them how greedy they are being

[KaiserShep]

If people are too scared to make up their minds then they deserve there fate, and if they are that desperate i think they would have agreed to flood if your influentaul enough to show them how greedy they are being

 

This kind of mindset makes for poor leadership. In any case, from a position of relative comfort, it's far easier to judge how people behave than it is to guess how you may act in that situation yourself.

[In Exile]

But there isn't a cure and it is a disease that slowly takes your mind. It is likely losing someone twice to the enemy. I don't really get how quarantine would be all that helpful. They are still going to die and now it'll be an even slower more painful death. No one would be there for them because they might be at risk of getting the blight too. We all know dying by the blight is said to be one of the most painful things to happen. We see that it is awful enough that at least some people decide to kill those infected with the blight. IDK. If I had too choose between healthy citizens survival and the survival of infected people who were going to die? The former would win out every time. He was a leader, he had to make a hard choice.

He murdered those people, because he did it in secret and outside any legal process or decision making apparatus. The town didn't have the politic be necessary for him to make that choice.

It's not any different from him picking up a knife and slitting throats.

[DaemionMoadrin]

He murdered those people, because he did it in secret and outside any legal process or decision making apparatus. The town didn't have the politic be necessary for him to make that choice.

It's not any different from him picking up a knife and slitting throats.

 

That's true. He murdered dying people, kept it all secret and through those actions managed to keep a little village alive while the Blight raged around them.

 

What would you have done in his place?

[BioWareM0d13]

I had the Inquisitor order him to be executed. He killed a bunch of people just for being sick. I get the motivation behind it, but it seems more than a little excessive. A quarantine would have worked just as well. Since he had other viable options short of committing mass-murder on his neighbors, he needed to be punished.

 

The Grey Warden option had some appeal as well, but the deciding factor ultimately was that he's probably of little use to the Wardens. He's old, not a warrior, has no magical ability, and arguably is also a bit of a coward. 

 

On that note I think arranging a date with the headman or sending him to Denerim for judgement are the best choices. Exile seems pointless, as he was basically running into exile when you had your guards chase him down. Why even capture him in that case?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I had the Inquisitor order him to be executed. He killed a bunch of people just for being sick. I get the motivation behind it, but it seems more than a little excessive. A quarantine would have worked just as well. Since he had other viable options short of committing mass-murder on his neighbors, he needed to be punished.

 

The Grey Warden option had some appeal as well, but the deciding factor ultimately was that he's probably of little use to the Wardens. He's old, not a warrior, has no magical ability, and arguably is also a bit of a coward. 

 

They weren't just sick though. They had the blight and through the taint in their blood the Darkspawn could sense the refugees. Half the village got infected helping those people despite placing them in a cave away from the village. A quarantine would have meant the end for everyone. The infected would have gone insane, then died slowly and painfully. Some might even have become ghouls. And as mentioned before, the refugees were followed by Darkspawn, who can sense everyone with the blight (see also: Grey Wardens).

 

He had no other viable options.

[sleasye74]

I think being in that spot for anyone of us we would feel differently, but how different? I have been in certain situaitions that put me in a spot to make a choice that will affect other(not killing a bunch of people) and the way i handled those was always the same and thats being up front and honest. Im always told nice guys finish last but they also seem to have more friend and family support

[In Exile]

That's true. He murdered dying people, kept it all secret and through those actions managed to keep a little village alive while the Blight raged around them.

What would you have done in his place?

Personally? I would have organised an evacuation and split the village up. Those that were healthy and willing would have a shot at surviving. The others would be left for dead for the blight. Except they'd have a choice.

Assuming there's be tainted folk wanting to evacuate, I would split the march into groups, with the tainted all in one spot.

These are all things within the mayor's power. These are utilitarian choices.

[In Exile]

They weren't just sick though. They had the blight and through the taint in their blood the Darkspawn could sense the refugees. Half the village got infected helping those people despite placing them in a cave away from the village. A quarantine would have meant the end for everyone. The infected would have gone insane, then died slowly and painfully. Some might even have become ghouls. And as mentioned before, the refugees were followed by Darkspawn, who can sense everyone with the blight (see also: Grey Wardens).

He had no other viable options.

He doesn't know about the ghoul aspect. And being tracked through the taint. He only knows about the epidemics. That's what we have to judge on.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Personally? I would have organised an evacuation and split the village up. Those that were healthy and willing would have a shot at surviving. The others would be left for dead for the blight. Except they'd have a choice.

Assuming there's be tainted folk wanting to evacuate, I would split the march into groups, with the tainted all in one spot.

These are all things within the mayor's power. These are utilitarian choices.

 

Evacuation during a Blight? That's a 99.9% chance to get everyone killed. I doubt he could have convinced them to leave their infected families behind though.

 

He doesn't know about the ghoul aspect. And being tracked through the taint. He only knows about the epidemics. That's what we have to judge on.

 

Ok, that's true. He knew there were Darkspawn coming though. If I remember correctly, the refugees said they were being followed.

[Machina Obscura]

What were his options?

 

A. Do nothing and let the blight spread. Consquence = Everyone dies and it's his fault because he's responsible for his people and knew better.

 

B. Stop the villagers from helping the refugees. Consequence = Village is unhappy, perhaps even disobedient. Refugess die a slow, agonizing death after going insane. Some might turn into ghouls and attack the village. Presence of blighted refugees might attract Darkspawn who can sense them. Consequence = Refugees die, village at high risk to get attacked/infected.

 

C. Send a messager to the responsible Teyrn. During a blight, with no time to spare and people not caring about the fate of one village. Consequence = Same as A.

 

D. Kill the refugees and make it look like an accident caused by the Darkspawn. Consequence = Refugees die, blight can't spread, Darkspawn are no longer coming, villagers are shocked but alive. Village recovers from the flood and prospers. Crestwood survives the 5th Blight without assistance.

 

So, what other option did he have? D, but then admit to it to the village? During their darkest hour, when they needed his leadership? Turn himself in after the Blight had ended? Who'd benefit from that? No one.

 

I'm curious what all the people who executed him for his actions would have done in his stead.

Great post, but here is my take.

 

 

E. Do everything as in D, but after my people are safe and blight over i turn myself in to the Teyrn/Ban/Arl whatever, and expect to be executed for my mass murder. Who benefits? The surviving family members of the people you murdered who might not have any idea what happened to their family members, now they would. The ends do not justify the means. Cresty did what he had to, but also has to face justice, that is the other side of "doing what he has to do."

 

Is it uncomfortable that the mayor is both a hero and a mass murderer? Sure. But that seems to be how it is.

[legbamel]

Evacuation during a Blight? That's a 99.9% chance to get everyone killed. I doubt he could have convinced them to leave their infected families behind though.

Ok, that's true. He knew there were Darkspawn coming though. If I remember correctly, the refugees said they were being followed.

The flood of refugees in Kirkwall disagree with your pessimism regarding evacuation as a viable option. It should have been his first choice, particularly keeping the healthy, faster-moving folks separateand, if the refugees already tainted fall behind and are eaten by the horde, so be it. It's still ruthless (essentially feeding the refugees to the Darkspawn like you'd throw a steak to a dog to distract it) without being underhanded and likely with support from the people who could help him deal with the guilt and support his version of events.

Flooding the caves and lying about it for a decade was not his only choice. I don't necessarily disagree with his reasoning but I don't agree with your portrayal of him as pure martyr, either.

[In Exile]

Evacuation during a Blight? That's a 99.9% chance to get everyone killed. I doubt he could have convinced them to leave their infected families behind though.


Ok, that's true. He knew there were Darkspawn coming though. If I remember correctly, the refugees said they were being followed.

Evacuation during a blight is how basically everyone survives. Not evacuating Lothering? All dead. Not evacuating Denerim? Would have been dead but for the Warden. Evacuating during a war is always plan A when a hostile army is marching toward you.

As for knowing the darkspawn are coming - that's just, again, the reality of a blight. He can't know they could track them.

[BioWareM0d13]

They weren't just sick though. They had the blight and through the taint in their blood the Darkspawn could sense the refugees. Half the village got infected helping those people despite placing them in a cave away from the village. A quarantine would have meant the end for everyone. The infected would have gone insane, then died slowly and painfully. Some might even have become ghouls. And as mentioned before, the refugees were followed by Darkspawn, who can sense everyone with the blight (see also: Grey Wardens).

 

He had no other viable options.

 

He had options.

 

Crestwood isn't the only place where people fell ill with the Blight. It is however the only place where the mayor decided to drown the sick. The sick could have been quarantined in the caves with the healthy avoiding contact, much like how many real life outbreaks of disease have been dealt with historically. Or he could have ordered the healthy to pack up and leave and seek refuge elsewhere, as many other people in the path of the darkspawn did.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Great post, but here is my take.

 

 

E. Do everything as in D, but after my people are safe and blight over i turn myself in to the Teyrn/Ban/Arl whatever, and expect to be executed for my mass murder. Who benefits? The surviving family members of the people you murdered who might not have any idea what happened to their family members, now they would. The ends do not justify the means. Cresty did what he had to, but also has to face justice, that is the other side of "doing what he has to do."

 

Is it uncomfortable that the mayor is both a hero and a mass murderer? Sure. But that seems to be how it is.

 

You can be both a good leader and a coward. Personally I don't see the point of him surrendering to the authorities after everything calmed down. The families had their closure, him being punished wouldn't help anyone and in the meantime he could work for his village. That he was afraid of facing justice doesn't change the fact that he did the right thing.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Evacuation during a blight is how basically everyone survives. Not evacuating Lothering? All dead. Not evacuating Denerim? Would have been dead but for the Warden. Evacuating during a war is always plan A when a hostile army is marching toward you.

As for knowing the darkspawn are coming - that's just, again, the reality of a blight. He can't know they could track them.

 

True, but evacuating Lothering only worked because the blight hadn't reached it yet. Crestwood was more or less surrounded already.

[EmissaryofLies]

I wish I could have let the guy go; I didn't want to exile him because he did nothing wrong.

 

He made a very difficult decision but he made the right one.

 

It reminds me of a certain decision in "The Arrival" dlc of Mass Effect 2. People seem to want it both ways. They beg for someone to lead them and make the difficult choices, but when that person does their job and to the best of their ability, they are to be hanged. It's two-faced and of ill character.

[phaonica]

Great post, but here is my take.

 

 

E. Do everything as in D, but after my people are safe and blight over i turn myself in to the Teyrn/Ban/Arl whatever, and expect to be executed for my mass murder. Who benefits? The surviving family members of the people you murdered who might not have any idea what happened to their family members, now they would. The ends do not justify the means. Cresty did what he had to, but also has to face justice, that is the other side of "doing what he has to do."

 

Is it uncomfortable that the mayor is both a hero and a mass murderer? Sure. But that seems to be how it is.

 

So you're saying that the right thing for him to do was to sacrifice himself, and you would still punish him for doing the right thing. That seems cruel, to me.

[Machina Obscura]

So you're saying that the right thing for him to do was to sacrifice himself, and you would still punish him for doing the right thing. That seems cruel, to me.

It does, but its also the fair thing to do for all parties involved. For anyone who has ever lost a loved one and didnt ever find out what happened to them, the mayor coming forward would be a very big deal in term of closure.

 

Even if you commit mass murder because it was the best thing to do in a given circumstance, an official court must NEVER condone mass murder for any reason, or else the whole system becomes a mockery. So while the Mayor has my sympathy (provided he couldnt just have had the whole village flee), he must still account for his actions.

 

Sometimes the right thing to do is not the thing that FEELS right.