38 réponses à ce sujet

[Matth85]

Was that on easy difficulty? Cause i just fought Frostback dragon on hard difficulty and he was doing some serious damage.

My gear on the tank is crafted lower t3 - 190ish def with resists etc + fire res potion. Fought him at lvl 13.

Nightmare.

Edit: I'll get a video of it in a second. Level 11 blackwall tanking Ferelden frostback with pre-skyhold gear, taking 1 damage only. Give it an hour to process

 

I am very sure there are other methods for other class. one just need to find out.

 

Hinterlands is easy, you just need to know where to go and when. There are 3 types of fights in the Hinterlands: Low level, level 8 and level 12.

By doing everything, excluding level 12 rifts and Redcliff area, I am level 7. No problems.

 

Most classes gets into their "game" at level 5-6. (Full draw on Archer, Death blow on DW. Pommel strike on 2h warrior. Passives on tank. etc, etc).

At that point you can take out level 8 rifts no problems. 

 

Generally speaking, potion.-chugging is the biggest problem in the hinterlands, and that stops at level 8. Then you can get the epic/purple vanguard armor from the Outlaw keep. With a decent shield, nothing will hit your tank over 1(As long as s/he faced them. You take more damage to the back.)

[Anelyn77]

That's curious Nova, because I have crafted bows (highest tier I found so far, bought recipe for 1.333g from VR merchant, ~98 dps if am not mistaken - the spiked bow thingie) both on Sera and my PC, with crafted grips, geared dex / cun, ~30 dex / cunning each at level 8, ~30% crit chance with 54-56% cdamage, and both long shot a lvl 8 archer from max distance won't kill it.

 

Most mobs in lvl 8 range have 2.3-3.5k HP (not 2h guys or other tougher stuff like greater nightmare etc). Only thing that does die in 1 long shot are wraiths but that's about it.

[Matth85]

 

There we go. nightmare, level 11, gear from Hinterlands and Oasis.

[Novadove]

nightmare difficulty, at lvl4, you should have 20% CC, 55% CHD.

 

starting from there, never add a single DEX other than from skill unlock.

 

All crafting gear goes to Cunning and all the way to end game.

 

at level 4 i am killing level 8 red lyrium Templar in hinterland at the bandit area. Templar archer die in 1 shot full draw from any angle.

 

tower shield Templar cannot be 1 shotted. need explosive shot to knock down. then long shot. (full draw if not in CD; no artificer spec at level 4)

 

given at level 4 i can 1 shot level 8 Templar archer, 2 shot red lyrium Templar and tower shield red lyrium Templar, i don't see why you cant do it at level 8.

 

also, the bandit camp in front of the hinterland red dragon, there's a bandit leader using 2h maul, i have no problem with him either. and i don't even have full draw at that time.

 

there is 0 incentive to invest in dex simply because dex gives diminishing return vs stack cunning.

 

edit: i spent 60 gold to buy 3 schematics from haven merchant and spent whole day farming 200 drufflo hides and fennec fur. they give cunning and CC for crafted bow/grips and tier 1 & 2 cunning

 

edit 2: why i keep mentioning level 4 because level 4 is what you get after finishing prologue and first gain accessibility to hinterland.

 

if you can, pls read my chest farming guide post under the strategy guide section in the forum

[Anelyn77]

Ok that's a lot of info, thanks.

 

I didn't had full draw at level 8, nor explo shot, I went for more defensive build (picking the roll from subterfuge for both me and Sera, as well as fade step for Solas, so I can instantly reposition all 3 ranged), I also went for leaping shot instead of Explosive (Sera will be tempest of course, and myself either Assassin or Tempest for this playthrough, of course will make a save backup before picking specialization so I can try artificer with Varric and prolly Cole on next one from skyhold).

 

Point is, 93 dps crafted spiked bows, I hit from max range ~500-800 damage with long shot, depending on target armor (~500 on 2h guys / grizzly bears, 600 on footmen, 700-800 on archers). Stealth seems to be bugged, I don't notice the 50% bonus damage at all (AI disabled, both me and sera stealthing and opening with long shots on same archer level 8, 2.270 hp, with elevation, same damage as if we are on even ground without stealth.....).

 

The problem with knocking down targets is that you can't really shoot them most of the time until they get back up because of line of sight problems (you can't always initiate fights and setup, sometimes you just wander through an area and mobs spawn on top of you etc, or terrain doesn't allow for much positioning due to LoS restrictions).

 

How is dex affected by DR? I thought it's a great stat to pump for the critical damage bonus as well as the attack bonus. Sure cunning is nice, but after 45% crit chance am not sure it will benefit as much (non artificer) to damage output than critical damage.

 

Ok so Full Draw OHK an archer. Then what? Fight scenario in hinterlands vs bandits: 2 x 2h dudes, 5k+ HP, 2 x archers, 2 x prowlers (possibly 3 mabari to add depending from what angle you approach the camp, and if you find / kill them before). You can remove 2 archers or 1 prowler in your initiation, then fight is on, you have a tank that needs to grab 2 x 2h dudes attention and manually position when they pop Guard and do the AoE thingie, as well as the prowler(s), if a prowler gets to Solas / Sera they are as good as dead or will eat potions like no tomorrow until you can kill them (due to their stealth, which happens very often on NM for me, they hit once or twice, then circle you in stealth, if you focus on popping them from stealth with manual shooting stuff, then you can't give orders to your tank etc).

 

I know how to deal with the mobs, the problem is I can't see realistically how you are doing so much damage to take them out fast at that level, while also not taking any significant damage yourself, due to severe lack of CC.

 

Or the quest to get 3 greater bear claws, when you are guaranteed to get 2 of those bears at once, possibly a normal brown one too, and either 3 mabari or 2 prowlers will happily join in every single time.

 

As Matth85 said, sure you can get to a point where Cas only takes 1 dmg from front, but: 2 bears doing the Stand Up smash move + 2 prowlers / 3 mabari which most likely won't attack her from the front angle, even if you manually pilot your tank, you can't dodge / block everything, a single knockdown or prowler ambush from behind and she will lose all guard and get hurt bad.

 

On the other side, in my previous playthrough, mage PC with Vivienne, Sera and Cas, I had no such problems due to more CC available early on and double barriers. Sure damage output was lower, but survival was greatly increased, access to more magic damage that ignores armor etc.

[Novadove]

well, it's a matter of game play i guess, the discussion is now on low level without specification.

 

low level archer, dw rogue cant compare to mages.

 

Cassandra provoke 1 enemy, 3 enemy on the lose. full draw sleep mabari dog, explosive knock down archer, then long shot with "all attack" on the last target. last target almost dead, archer got up start shooting; archer killed, mabari woke up, full draw sleep dog again, focus kill Cas voked target then finally mabari.

 

full draw sleep is 20 sec. make full use of it.

 

i don't know how to explain to you.

 

by the way, i killed feralden frostback at level 4 with archer alone (it took me 30min). that's how glitch and exploitable archer is.

 

of cos it's not easy compare to mage when it comes to leveling up before getting specialization.

[Anelyn77]

I know about the glitches, but I don't use them I want to play the game as is intended, as that makes it challenging hehe. Not sure if you saw the NM Archer Assassin solo (100% solo after prelude) video series on youtube, including all dragons etc. And without glitches, simply great combination of skills and understanding of game mechanics. But that's not feasible with a party for obvious reasons.

 

IE: If I get on a mountain slope and put everyone on hold and just shoot mobs down the slope who can't climb to my position, that's not tactics it's cheesing - for me. Like you can kill the Giant in Oasis without taking a single bit of damage - he doesn't even aggro, just wonders around, but that's not fighting a giant and gives no satisfaction - for me.

 

So yeah I like to play and beat the game content by using tactics / potions / grenades / combos / terrain advantage but without hindering the AI of enemies or abusing the loops in their programming. That doesn't mean I will charge in heads on, ofc I can position my team before initiating a fight to get good flanks / LoS, focus fire etc, nobody forces you to fight the moment you see red dots on radar (with few exceptions and scripted fights of course).

 

I closed all rifts except the 3 level 12 ones in Hinterlands at lvl 8 (including redcliffe outside gates and inside the church) without having much problems (no party deaths) and cleared most of hinterlands (excluding Shyvanna valley since the dracolisks are level 12) so I can do stuff

[Novadove]

you do know there are 2 phases to this game.

 

phase 1 is prior to specialization. phase 2 is after getting specialization.

 

we are talking about prior to specialization meaning vanilla rogue archer vs vanilla DW rogue in nightmare.

 

and i am talking about level 4 or 5. yet you compare my discussion point with "Archer Assassin" which is high level WITH specialization.

 

also, i have never say my tactics are not cheesy. taking full advantage of artificer is cheesy. hitting mobs 100m away is cheesy.

 

killing a feralden frostback at level 5 is cheesy. but tactics is tactics. it doesn't matter how i do it. i simply discover ways to make things easier for me.

 

you chose to go the hard way, then perhaps do not ask me in previous posts how i can do it.

 

Prior to specialization, all rogue are the same.

 

And i urge you to compare apple to apple. it's basics.

 

edit: just because i use the word glitch, kindly do not capitalize on it and nit pick. the game is made this way.

 

http://youtu.be/gjYsZ68S3NE  <-- youtube link on killing 1st dragon at level 5 in 20min

[Anelyn77]

Ummm sorry if you got that impression it was not what I meant.

 

I wasn't comparing non spec to specs, I mentioned the video of NM solo with Assassin Archer because it is possible to solo the all game on NM without cheese or glitches (the videos are from start of game, so no specialization included, it just showcases how to deal with content utilizing the pre-spec kit, as well as after specialization).

 

As you seen from my previous posts I actually want to play the game on NM, shooting at something that doesn't fight back only takes time, there is nothing else involved in it - am not saying you're doing stuff wrong, I was speaking in context of how I play the game - actually engaging in encounters etc.

 

I know how successful your Artificer setup is, from other threads were I replied as well - in a positive way too, I don't point fingers that you're cheesing or doing it wrong, I just said - for me - doing some things that make fights shooting gallery with no response from enemy AI is not what playing on NM should be. So our experiences regarding game content vary from this point of view of course

 

There aren't any competitions or ladder / rankings on how you beat the game or how fast, we all share our personal experiences / ways of playing the game, and most likely pick up things from other players, be it tactics, gearing, exploring, party comps etc

 

So once more, please apologize me if without my intention I seemed to pick on you or your way of playing the game, it wasn't my intention

[Novadove]

hi, no offense taken. perhaps I got frustrated because I have never intended to play "legit" from the beginning and find it difficult to argue with your points.

 

to be frank I am trying to beat the system and in the process, hope to find something out of it.

 

I hate the fact that DAI does not offer the choice of variation. why must it be level 10+ before we can kill a dragon?

 

why must everyone play assassin and tempest and not artificer. prior to getting specialization, is rogue really hard to play in nightmare?

 

it's these questions that prompt me to search the answer from within the game itself.

 

to certain extent, the line of "glitch" is very grey. if you look at my video, I killed the dragon at level 5, took me 20min with some help from my party members who does not have aggro. I consider it a glitch and this method wont work for other dragons. but still, it's been accomplished.

 

Edit: To some people, this may be consider a tactic nontheless

 

if really tactics is involved, there is no way to kill that dragon at level 5 no matter what tactics because I have tried countless times.

 

it is this simple fact and game mechanics that helps me to beat nightmare as a rogue without specialization.

 

It is all good someone else can solo dragon with assassin but that doesn't really interest me because assassin spec is so popular, everyone's doing it to death.

 

i hope you can understand where i am coming from.

 

edit: by the way, shooting at enemy that doesn't move is only an "option" it is not as if that if i don't kill enemy that way, rogue archer is unplayable. in my perspective, it is only an additional option which DW rogue doesn't have the privilege to utilize.

[Anelyn77]

Glad we cleared that out!

 

@Matth85

 

This playthrough I went to Oasis at level 8. For my surprise there were no venatori templars / mages, and no giant on the bottom (where the oasis is and the entrance to temple) which is A RADICAL change from my previous playthrough. There is no way to deal with previously mentioned mobs this early in the game.

 

Only encountered Hyenas - still more than a redutable enemy considering they have 5k+ HP each, and can 3 shot my rogues / mage, but at least manageable (and they come in pack of 4+).

 

So yeah if this is how Oasis is early on, then it makes sense to get some better materials from there. Since in my 1st playthrough the Oasis population was very different, it made sense to not even think about it before level 10+

 

Also did any of you try to actually fight the giant on Stormcoast (from full HP, not waiting the dragon to drop it's HP to under 1k)? It's very challenging, if you don't have some instant repositioning skills, a boulder will 1 shot everyone non tank through barrier (hits for 1.5-1.8k).

[Duelist]

hi, no offense taken. perhaps I got frustrated because I have never intended to play "legit" from the beginning and find it difficult to argue with your points.

to be frank I am trying to beat the system and in the process, hope to find something out of it.

And really, what kind of Rogue doesn't cheat lol?
After all, a fair fight just means your tactics suck.

[Matth85]

Glad we cleared that out!

 

@Matth85

 

This playthrough I went to Oasis at level 8. For my surprise there were no venatori templars / mages, and no giant on the bottom (where the oasis is and the entrance to temple) which is A RADICAL change from my previous playthrough. There is no way to deal with previously mentioned mobs this early in the game.

 

Only encountered Hyenas - still more than a redutable enemy considering they have 5k+ HP each, and can 3 shot my rogues / mage, but at least manageable (and they come in pack of 4+).

 

So yeah if this is how Oasis is early on, then it makes sense to get some better materials from there. Since in my 1st playthrough the Oasis population was very different, it made sense to not even think about it before level 10+

 

Also did any of you try to actually fight the giant on Stormcoast (from full HP, not waiting the dragon to drop it's HP to under 1k)? It's very challenging, if you don't have some instant repositioning skills, a boulder will 1 shot everyone non tank through barrier (hits for 1.5-1.8k).

 

I've fought the giant every time  

The fight goes like this every time:

 

- He throws boulder at me, or varric. Either one of us dies.

- Cassandra gets close and starts tanking.

- After about 3 minutes the giant dies.

 

Though lately I started getting the evasion abilities a little earlier than before, so I can now dodge that initial boullde

 

I am too impatience to wait for the dragon to fight the giant. ain't nobody got time 'fo that!

[Anelyn77]

^ 

 

Yep! I got the evasion on both Sera and myself, as well as fade step for solas. Made it easier esp. vs terrors (lesser / greater etc) and rage / despair demons, giants etc,

 

Now that I finally got lvl 11 and got full draw both on sera and myself, things are starting to look up, doing the mire full clear, then will decide if I go with templars or mages (should be halfway to level 12 or even 12 when that happens).

 

Still sporting ~100 dps Bows on myself and Sera (made new ones with T2 mats from oasis, but difference is only ~10 dps so nothing major). Crit 3k on a lvl 12 Wraith with full draw from stealth (0 armor).

 

I picked up Cheapshot until specialization, so I have some armor ignore for the upcoming Avvar boss battle, as well as giving Cas shield bash, so should be fine!