23 réponses à ce sujet

[EnemySpinach]

Why is it that every second or third lobby I drop into (PS3) has 3 people trying to be the same thing, thus preventing us from getting all the treasure? I switch as needed, but no one else does, and if we have 3 Reavers or something, I can't handle lockpicks AND barriers at the same time!

 

Especially frustrating when everyone is trying to be a melee unit and getting teleported away from.

 

Hey, Bioware, how much work would it take to adjust the search settings to try to encourage a bit of diversity? Because I swear, I'll drop into an all warrior lobby, leave and find an all rogue party, leave and find an all mage party, etc, and if those were just shuffled around a bit, it would be great! But peple are too stubborn to ever consider the rest of their party and adapt.

 

Example: I was trying to level my Alchemist and I drop into a game with a Reaver and Legionaire. Well, kind of physically stacked, but at least we have 2 of the 3 types of characters. We'll start the game, and hope a mage joins. LOL, ANOTHER FREAKING REAVER!

 

*sigh*

[gay_wardens]

It's ridiculous, I know. I'll try to find a party with my Legionnaire and wind up entering a room with only one other person who is also a Legionnaire. WTF?

[golyoscsapagy]

If three out of four is fine with skipping the treasure room in order to play the class they want I really can't understand why you have problems with it? If that 100 gold you will miss is a make or break thing for you leave the lobby. Let the people play whaterver they damn want, no sense in policing everything.

[EnemySpinach]

If three out of four is fine with skipping the treasure room in order to play the class they want I really can't understand why you have problems with it? If that 100 gold you will miss is a make or break thing for you leave the lobby. Let the people play whaterver they damn want, no sense in policing everything.

 

Except we get to that treasure door and they all start cursing at each other for not being able to open it.

They're just complete and utter idiots.

 

Oh, and furthermore: Every time I've ever run without one spcific class, nearly all the treasure doors seem to be the one thing we're missing. Meaning an effectively "empty run" with a rather minute pay out. Yes, I'm such a jerk for trying to police things for suggesting that we encourage actually seeking out rewards for our matches.

[golyoscsapagy]

Except we get to that treasure door and they all start cursing at each other for not being able to open it.

They're just complete and utter idiots.

 

Oh, and furthermore: Every time I've ever run without one spcific class, nearly all the treasure doors seem to be the one thing we're missing. Meaning an effectively "empty run" with a rather minute pay out. Yes, I'm such a jerk for trying to police things for suggesting that we encourage actually seeking out rewards for our matches.

So? Did they change the class after the match then?

 

In reality when 3 people are using all the same class if even one of them isn't fine with losing chests he can switch to another class. If he doesn't do it, he is okay with losing the money. The only guy (you) who isn't fine with it should not be able to enforce his will on others. If you dislike it, tell them via voice chat. If you don't want to talk to them leave. It's that easy.

 

So, can I see your dataset for the distribution of doors? Or it's just that you think they are more numerous? Then I say that's confirmation bias only.

[EnemySpinach]

So, can I see your dataset for the distribution of doors? Or it's just that you think they are more numerous? Then I say that's confirmation bias only.

A valid point. There's really nothing to say it's not just purely random. Just sharing personal experience.

 

Furthermore, if all I ever do is leave when I see these kinds of parties, I'll seriously spend a half hour just game-hopping before I find something -passable- (Example: a lobby with 2 people using the same thing, and one empty slot) and the last guy joining usually joins with the same thing.

[golyoscsapagy]

A valid point. There's really nothing to say it's not just purely random. Just sharing personal experience.

 

Furthermore, if all I ever do is leave when I see these kinds of parties, I'll seriously spend a half hour just game-hopping before I find something -passable- (Example: a lobby with 2 people using the same thing, and one empty slot) and the last guy joining usually joins with the same thing.

 

This is a multiplayer game, connect with likeminded people and you can pick up every door you encounter.

 

I also strongly suspect that the craptastic loot system would help diversity much more. Due to the horrible drop rates you give up on chests (and thus on gold) pretty quick and playing something you enjoy or want to level up will take priority. Believe me if rooms would drop something mildly interesting instead of 1/10th of a white level 5 weapon people would actually care about it.

[wKmike]

Blah, I hate the amount of people playing archers. I remember day one being a keeper and having three archers constantly joining in. Archers are useless unless they have a good bow.

[TheThirdRace]

The real problem isn't that people are playing what they're having fun with, it's the fact the "trinity" warrior/rogue/mage is forced on you.

 

Let me illustrate what the real problem is...

 

• Is it perfectly viable to clear a map with 4 of the same class? -> Yes, in fact it's quite powerful
• Is is possible to open every treasure rooms with 4 of the same class? -> No, for every class missing you get at least 3 doors for that class

 

Bioware did something very wrong, they force down our throats an unnecessary trinity because of their definition of "fun". Since they couldn't make the game only completable with the trinity, they punish us another way (gold/item). We have to follow them like sheeps or we pay the price, it's a horrible design. What Bioware should do is to remove that non-sense and be sure to only have doors openable by the classes in the party. You have 2 warriors and 2 rogues? You only see warrior and rogue doors, no mage door. You have 4 mages, you only see mages doors. It's not like it's impossible to do...

[Stinja]

What Bioware should do is to remove that non-sense and be sure to only have doors openable by the classes in the party. 

 

Or stick and carrot it.

So if you have the correct class to open a door, no monsters inside (still have monster chests possible), otherwise pull a lever off to the side with the wrong class, you open the treasure room, but always spawn monsters.

[Bastion6six6]

Or stick and carrot it.

So if you have the correct class to open a door, no monsters inside (still have monster chests possible), otherwise pull a lever off to the side with the wrong class, you open the treasure room, but always spawn monsters.

less monsters=less experience

 

Having less enemies is not a good thing, I can assure you if there was a way to consistently spawn MORE enemies EVERYBODY would be doing that to exp farm.

[N7 Tigger]

Except we get to that treasure door and they all start cursing at each other for not being able to open it.

They're just complete and utter idiots.

 

Oh, and furthermore: Every time I've ever run without one spcific class, nearly all the treasure doors seem to be the one thing we're missing. Meaning an effectively "empty run" with a rather minute pay out. Yes, I'm such a jerk for trying to police things for suggesting that we encourage actually seeking out rewards for our matches.

 

This happens way too often for it to be coincidence. These doors are a terrible feature. One of many. If my favorite character is the Archer and my three friends' happen to be Reaver, Templar and Assassin why would BioWare want to punish us by making 3/4 of the doors magic barriers? I think so many of this games problems are that so many features are bad just for the sake of being different to Mass Effect 3. Or deliberate attempts to curtail a particular playstyle/strategy from ME3 that Bioware didn't like.

[parabolicity]

If I'm playing my level 20's I will switch to whatever is missing. Otherwise XP is more important to me than a couple of treasure rooms.

[Beerfish]

I will switch classes if I see I am entering an on going game.  The problem I have with that is I do not always have a character appropriate to the level I am playing ready enough to take on that level.  (For example, playing threatening with a Reaver, see that a rogue is needed but my hunter is only level 6 or so.) I am getting all classes to 20 so I do not want to take out ones already at 20 for lower level games.

[Grayvisions]

If I'm playing my level 20's I will switch to whatever is missing. Otherwise XP is more important to me than a couple of treasure rooms.

 

While I agree that it often seems like the one class you're missing is the one most of the treasure doors are for, I agree with the above; the loot in MP is pathetic. I get more satisfaction ignoring the possibility of treasure chests and just leveling up to get new skills than I do getting my hopes up for decent treasure and just seeing 40 gold pop up or, worse, a low level white item. I've been in teams that skipped the chest all together and just rush the match for exp itself, and that's some of the best fun I've had. Which is just sad...

[xlm1994]

Not many care about treasure rooms.  Sometimes there is someone in the team who can open the room and they just ignore it.  I'm totally fine with that, since I don't care about that gold anyway.

[Silvershroud]

It doesn't bother me at all.  I'll usually switch if there is a class that is still needed (assuming I have one at an appropriate level), but if we miss a few doors, no big deal.  And it can be fun to run with all one class.  I want the money, sure, but fun is FAR more important.

[EnemySpinach]

The real problem isn't that people are playing what they're having fun with, it's the fact the "trinity" warrior/rogue/mage is forced on you.

 

Let me illustrate what the real problem is...

 

• Is it perfectly viable to clear a map with 4 of the same class? -> Yes, in fact it's quite powerful
• Is is possible to open every treasure rooms with 4 of the same class? -> No, for every class missing you get at least 3 doors for that class

 

Bioware did something very wrong, they force down our throats an unnecessary trinity because of their definition of "fun". Since they couldn't make the game only completable with the trinity, they punish us another way (gold/item). We have to follow them like sheeps or we pay the price, it's a horrible design. What Bioware should do is to remove that non-sense and be sure to only have doors openable by the classes in the party. You have 2 warriors and 2 rogues? You only see warrior and rogue doors, no mage door. You have 4 mages, you only see mages doors. It's not like it's impossible to do...

I actually disagree completely.

 

Anyone who has ever played either old-fashioned RPGs or MMOs (And I know DA:I is just a single player RPG with a tacked on multiplayer aspect, but the SINGLE PLAYER of the series has always enforced this point!) knows that any good party has multiple roles: A wall to soak up damage, supporters to keep that wall alive, damging units that excel in killing single powrful threats, AOE attackers, etc....

 

Basically, what I'm getting at is, try playing WoW with a party of only Rogues. Or only Warriors. Doesn't freaking work. Sure, you might be able to do decently early on, but try a mid-game instance, and your ass is pulverized.

 

DAI is certainly more lenient, but the roles exist; notice how the game starts you off with one tank, one ranged damager, and one supportive mage. Clearly this was done intentionally in order to encourage familiarity with team tactics early on,

 

Basically, the genre of RPGs in general, not even just online ones, is largely divided into roles. And if you want to play a specific role, find a party that role works well in. I have the common courtesy to change my played character to another role, if I can. As such, I ask that others have the common courtesy to not go "LOL 3/1 OR 2/2, WHO NEEDS A THIRD CLASS!?" Even if all the gear you find behind the doors/ buy with the gold sucks, you can still salvage them for materials!

[HowYouSoGudd]

i don't think op had as much of a problem with roles as rhe terrible matchmaking system damp is using. i remember one time i was trying to play keeper and first match was all keepers, second match was all mages and then i swapped to sin and got thrown into a party with all rogues.

[Grayvisions]

Stuff about WoW

 

No one's talking about WoW. WoW and DAI are completely different games, comparing one to the other to express a point is almost always going to come up short of the argument's goal. 

 

The root of your argument, without all of that, is that roles work well. They sometimes do. However, in THIS GAME, running a team without adherence to the trinity also works well, and running a team of all one class can indeed be quite powerful. There's nothing to disagree with there, that's just fact of the matter. It may not be what Bware intended, but it is regularly done, and often to greater avail seeing as most people don't play their Warriors very well. I've a better track record with all mage/mage + archer/hunter teams than on teams with Warriors who tend to spend more time on their knees than a Chantry Mother.

 

As far as salvaging goes, we're going to need a much more robust system than the one we have now, closer to what's in the SP portion of the game, before that makes me feel any kind of bad for missing a treasure door. Which would be nice. Would solve a lot of RNG complaints.

[Vishimtar]

I agree that mixing up the parties would be nice, but anything you do to limit or impede matchmaking will increase the queue times, especially as the game ages and likely fewer are playing.

[Scorpio989]

Unfortunately the problem lies with developers insisting on testing themselves. They don't seem to understand that people will not play the game as they designed the game to be played. They test the games how they believe it should be played and neglect 3rd party testers who will always think outside of the box and deliver better results. I have seen this with my own projects and it's the reason why I no longer self test anything I am making.

[AwesomeBabyLion]

I don't like treasure rooms are limited to classes. It should be possible for any class to open them. That way you don't force players hands and I get to still get rewards when I solo XD

[TheThirdRace]

The real problem isn't that people are playing what they're having fun with, it's the fact the "trinity" warrior/rogue/mage is forced on you.
 
Let me illustrate what the real problem is...

• Is it perfectly viable to clear a map with 4 of the same class? -> Yes, in fact it's quite powerful
• Is is possible to open every treasure rooms with 4 of the same class? -> No, for every class missing you get at least 3 doors for that class

Bioware did something very wrong, they force down our throats an unnecessary trinity because of their definition of "fun". Since they couldn't make the game only completable with the trinity, they punish us another way (gold/item). We have to follow them like sheeps or we pay the price, it's a horrible design. What Bioware should do is to remove that non-sense and be sure to only have doors openable by the classes in the party. You have 2 warriors and 2 rogues? You only see warrior and rogue doors, no mage door. You have 4 mages, you only see mages doors. It's not like it's impossible to do...

 
I actually disagree completely.
 
Anyone who has ever played either old-fashioned RPGs or MMOs (And I know DA:I is just a single player RPG with a tacked on multiplayer aspect, but the SINGLE PLAYER of the series has always enforced this point!) knows that any good party has multiple roles: A wall to soak up damage, supporters to keep that wall alive, damging units that excel in killing single powrful threats, AOE attackers, etc....
 
Basically, what I'm getting at is, try playing WoW with a party of only Rogues. Or only Warriors. Doesn't freaking work. Sure, you might be able to do decently early on, but try a mid-game instance, and your ass is pulverized.
 
DAI is certainly more lenient, but the roles exist; notice how the game starts you off with one tank, one ranged damager, and one supportive mage. Clearly this was done intentionally in order to encourage familiarity with team tactics early on,
 
Basically, the genre of RPGs in general, not even just online ones, is largely divided into roles. And if you want to play a specific role, find a party that role works well in. I have the common courtesy to change my played character to another role, if I can. As such, I ask that others have the common courtesy to not go "LOL 3/1 OR 2/2, WHO NEEDS A THIRD CLASS!?" Even if all the gear you find behind the doors/ buy with the gold sucks, you can still salvage them for materials!

You're actually missing the point. I'd be perfectly fine with the trinity concept if DA MP was an old-fashioned RPG or an MMO, but it's not. It's an online dungeon crawler like Diablo 2 and 3.

It would make no sense to force D3 players to have a sorceress or a barbarian to open up an area when the goal of the game is loot and kill things with a sliver of simili-story to hold it up (sorry D3 players but your game doesn't have a real story... end of the line). The same principle applies to DA MP, it doesn't make sense because players are gonna play the character they have the most fun with.

DA MP is "casual", a game will last less than 30 minutes while an old-fashioned RPG or MMO will last hundreds of hours. In DA MP you play lots of different characters and you switch constantly between them while in an old-fashioned RPG or MMO you have 1 to 4 characters that you invest your very soul into. In DA MP you max your character stats in less than 5 hours, in an old-fashioned RPG or MMO it's more like 70. Not the same playing field at all.