130 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Mutare]

My college kids sometimes have me come to a tournament at their University and be a GM for D and D. I was at one all last night and OOC folks kept asking me what I thought of DAI. I couldn't find a reason as a D and D Role Player to recommend DAI. it is a beautiful game so despite all the glitches and issues I have with the PC controls in combat. But it is NOT a Role play game as I have no real control over my stats and only 8 slots of the actions open.  I bought this game because it was advertises as made for PC and a RP game. So when we ****** about it not being one and are told we need to get over it, I just get angry. I do NOT have to get over it.  I have no control over having advisors forced on me that I have killed in other playthroughs. Leliana should stay dead. I shouldn't have to game IC with someone that is dead and that I despise.  Cullan as well is someone I would NEVER work with. yet in here I am guided or forced to work with them. In BG I could choose who I worked with. Hence the anger at DAI being sold as made for PC RPG.

[Darkfyre]

What's with people living in the past? Gosh, you're annoying.

Maybe once you have a past to speak of, you'll feel a little bit differently.

[Tevinter Soldier]

we need a justin timberlake Sub Forum.............then again it would be plagued by arthur hamilton supporters.

[Lee T]

People need to let go sometimes. It creates unrealistic expectations and people ignore the flaws

It's not about letting go, it's about building upon. A game may be old and still be relevant, just like a good book or a good movie. And just like a writer or a director, I do not expect a game designer to copy/paste but to be inspired by previous works and use the good ideas to better them and the old mistakes to avoid them.

The video game is just in it's infancy, there's nothing to gain for us or designers to forget about the past except playing an endless series of copy pasted sequels.

[Lee T]

My college kids sometimes have me come to a tournament at their University and be a GM for D and D. I was at one all last night and OOC folks kept asking me what I thought of DAI. I couldn't find a reason as a D and D Role Player to recommend DAI. it is a beautiful game so despite all the glitches and issues I have with the PC controls in combat. But it is NOT a Role play game as I have no real control over my stats and only 8 slots of the actions open.  I bought this game because it was advertises as made for PC and a RP game. So when we ****** about it not being one and are told we need to get over it, I just get angry. I do NOT have to get over it.  I have no control over having advisors forced on me that I have killed in other playthroughs. Leliana should stay dead. I shouldn't have to game IC with someone that is dead and that I despise.  Cullan as well is someone I would NEVER work with. yet in here I am guided or forced to work with them. In BG I could choose who I worked with. Hence the anger at DAI being sold as made for PC RPG.

Video game RPG have never been more than gloryfied chose your own adventure books. While they are fun to play they will never replace the freedom that a bunch of people around a table's combined imagination has. They are a fun substitue, but there's no point in comparing them to the real thing. I guess a real life driver feel the same about Forza/Gran Turismo.

[Tsunami Chef]

Wasteland 2 scratched that old itch for me, DA:I just isn't that type of game and complaining about that is kind of useless.

Wish people could realize this...DA:I doesn't strive to reinvent the nostalgia of old, they are moving in a new direction and trying to create a new path. It's not like Dragon Age Origins, and just as much of us are delighted by that as are sad.

 

"it is a beautiful game so despite all the glitches and issues I have with the PC controls in combat. But it is NOT a Role play game as I have no real control over my stats and only 8 slots of the actions open.  I bought this game because it was advertises as made for PC and a RP game. So when we ****** about it not being one and are told we need to get over it, I just get angry. I do NOT have to get over it.  I have no control over having advisors forced on me that I have killed in other playthroughs. Leliana should stay dead. I shouldn't have to game IC with someone that is dead and that I despise.  Cullan as well is someone I would NEVER work with. yet in here I am guided or forced to work with them. In BG I could choose who I worked with. Hence the anger at DAI being sold as made for PC RPG."

 

 

1. How are your base stats important to a roleplaying game? I mean...do you have a hard time roleplaying yourself because you don't get to deterimine your attributes? I honestly don't understand this at all...you still determine your attributes by skills and equipment.

 

2. So a retcon means this isn't a RPG? This is what happens in games where you have massive amounts of choices.

 

3. You wouldn't work with cullen? okay then, how about you die in the wilds and then story over and you can RP it how you want? Are you really bashing the game because you can't totally kick characters out of the story you don't like? I didn't like EDI in ME2, but I couldn't kick her out of the airlock.

 

The complaints you have for this game literally apply to almost every other RPG. Every RPG requires you to interact with people you may or may not like, and you can't just tell them off. You are basically shitting on the game for having an actual story that you are required to go through...but yes..that is why people buy this game...not for an open slate game...that is what a tabletop RPG is for. The attributes point is a fair point in that it is odd, but i hardly had any moments where my lack of being able to put an extra point in intellect stopped me from roleplaying.

[Spooky81]

BioWare made a sincere and honest effort to return to their RPG roots as promoted and advertised before the release of DAI.  In some areas they hit the mark, but overall it's a miss IMO.  While there's quite a few criticism and negativity that's toxic and unwarranted, if enough people bring up the same points again and again in a constructive, sincere manner it should be seen as a trend with valid points and weight.

[Teddie Sage]

Maybe once you have a past to speak of, you'll feel a little bit differently.

Haha. Personally attacking me while I was speaking in general? Do continue, you're wasting your breath.

[rashie]

Video game RPG have never been more than gloryfied chose your own adventure books. While they are fun to play they will never replace the freedom that a bunch of people around a table's combined imagination has. They are a fun substitue, but there's no point in comparing them to the real thing. I guess a real life driver feel the same about Forza/Gran Turismo.

Honestly in some ways its for the better leaving the D&D world with video games. The rule sets have never played very well with video games and there is reasons for that. DA:O was a glimpse of what could have been had without it being bogged down by restrictions and silly limitations while still taking inspiration from it, but it took another direction in the sequels.

[Morroian]

Honestly in some ways its for the better leaving the D&D world with video games. The rule sets have never played very well with video games and there is reasons for that. DA:O was a glimpse of what could have been had without it being bogged down by restrictions and silly limitations while still taking inspiration from it, but it took another direction in the sequels.

 

D&D rulesets don't really suit PC games, that is true, doesn't mean other rulesets can't be used which are more suited to the form whilst still maintaining the essence of what a role playing game is.

[Lady Mutare]

Any Knight Templar could have been used to fill Cullans spot. The fact i have to use Cullan is what irks me.  I still see no reason why Leliana is not dead.

[Bladenite1481]

Wish people could realize this...DA:I doesn't strive to reinvent the nostalgia of old, they are moving in a new direction and trying to create a new path. It's not like Dragon Age Origins, and just as much of us are delighted by that as are sad.

 

 

The problem is, go look at quite a few of their first videos. They knew they wanted to sell this game to the people who loved DAO who felt that DA2 was subpar, so they marketed it towards them quite heavily. Many of the first comments were along the lines of "Return to Origins style combat" a "Good mix of DAO and DA2" but it's really nothing like DAO. So yeah, the company can make what they want, but had they been honest and said "This is more of an Action-Adventure/RPG combo" I guarantee most of the people complaining right now would not be, because they would never have pre-ordered it in the first place. 

[Danoniero]

If you are still working for Bioware, please quit and bring back via kickstarter a genuine PC RPG.

You may check Pillars of Eternity and Torment Tides of Numenera if you fancy an old way RPG

 

 

 "This is more of an Action-Adventure/RPG combo" I guarantee most of the people complaining right now would not be, because they would never have pre-ordered it in the first place. 

Now you say me that you did not see that on trailers and dev streams?

Couse I did and actually I am waiting till they patch the PC version, then I will still buy it even if its more action game with rpg elements, I just love Dragon Age, at least its better than Dragon Age 2 so im good.

[Bladenite1481]

You may check Pillars of Eternity and Torment Tides of Numenera if you fancy an old way RPG

 

 

Now you say me that you did not see that on trailers and dev streams?

Couse I did and actually I am waiting till they patch the PC version, then I will still buy it even if its more action game with rpg elements, I just love Dragon Age, at least its better than Dragon Age 2 so im good.

Yeah, I am checking on both. Have heard some good and bad things about both, so we'll see when it comes to Torment and PoE

[Bladenite1481]

Any Knight Templar could have been used to fill Cullans spot. The fact i have to use Cullan is what irks me.  I still see no reason why Leliana is not dead.

Probably has to do with contracts and money. Easier to grab those guys for multiple games and cannonize the material rather than pay yet another person for all the same dialogue. 

[Jester]

Any Knight Templar could have been used to fill Cullans spot. The fact i have to use Cullan is what irks me.  I still see no reason why Leliana is not dead.

Because plot demands her presence.

If you're looking for rationalization, she was killed near the most potent healing artifact in Thedas.

 

I say it was a mistake to give the players an option to kill her in Origins, if they needed her in further games and books in the franchise.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Threads like this remind me why nostalgia isn't always a good thing, could easily go back & play your favourite old school rpg's from the 90's if you wanted instead of coming on here insulting BW & gamers who dare to use consoles just cos you seem to hate change

[Gerula81]

The trouble as I see it with DAI is that it simply fails to deliver on the main points on which it was sold. They sold and pushed for pre-order on a "game by PC gamers for PC gamers", going back to the roots but using the newest features on the good old concept. Awesome for all the veterans and enticing to the newer fans.

 

Judging by the presentation videos there was the promise of a large open world, of meaningful choices and tactical combat, including havin everything filmed at the DAO angle that was originally unavailable in game (and it took a couple of guys half a day to hack through CE)

 

What I(and many others) naively pre ordered and eventually got delivered is: A rushed, shallow and relatively on-rails experience built on a recycled mmo project, a lot of fluff but no substance, with basic beta build issues.

 

Concept wise:

-no attributes or the ability to use them (no dex based warriors, dual wielding etc)

-on rails story

-no alternative solutions or pathways to quests or different results to dialogue choices

-minimal skilltrees and abilities, combat oriented only, add random loot and you get Diablo 3...not a great result by any measure

-invisible walls in an open world game...really?

Execution wise:

-obvious console port issues: mouse acceleration, control delays, targeting issues, loot pick up concept, no click to walk

-minimal customization options: 2-3 armor templates in several available colours, recycled hairmeshes for both genders...that clip in most cases...

-irrelevant collectible or fetch quest templates, large areas to explore for the sake of exploring because they're empty

-timesink and grinding activities and missions mmorpg style, almost instant respawn of enemies

-useless but numerous mounts, each with their own detailed story (more detailed that arms and armor tooltips) recycled from the mmo material

-really sketchy lighting system, can induce dizzyness quite quickly

-major body mesh issues (elf male), holes through the map, Npc under the map etc (if you haven't seen any...do explore)

-gamebreaking bugs not ironed out from beta(getting stuck in cinematic area at character creation just an example -not a fun thing to happen after you create your character for 1h and a bit)

-character stuck in textures in a couple of areas

 

Many others have put these issues up on the forums and just like myself, not "cuz we hatez", we're calling out those whose fans and supporters we have been for a long time now, whose  product we pre-ordered and purchased based on trust and heritage and who have not delivered on their promise and quite falsely advertised their product. We're calling them out because they instead of redeeming themselves and producing a game of the value and depth of their past creations they chose to lure people back with the promise but then just put out the exact opposite.

 

Don't get me wrong, this is what they call tough love Iron bull style, I game for a while now, I have 120+ hours in DAI alone and countless in all other Bioware games of which I am a fan. But I will call IronBullShhhhit when I see it, and when no devs acknowledge, even less answer numerous, legitimate issues for so long, it kind of smells really bad.

[Lee T]

Threads like this remind me why nostalgia isn't always a good thing, could easily go back & play your favourite old school rpg's from the 90's if you wanted instead of coming on here insulting BW & gamers who dare to use consoles just cos you seem to hate change

I for one would enjoy an indepth RPG designed by people taking the best of what's been done and bringing it in new dirctions on my console. While I've been fascinated by Bioware's first forray on consoles, I've been less enthused by their latest works. Not because they didn't strive to equal their past works, but because they didn't try to improve upon them and making better RPGs.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Many others have put these issues up on the forums and just like myself, not "cuz we hatez", we're calling out those whose fans and supporters we have been for a long time now, whose  product we pre-ordered and purchased based on trust and heritage and who have not delivered on their promise and quite falsely advertised their product. We're calling them out because they instead of redeeming themselves and producing a game of the value and depth of their past creations they chose to lure people back with the promise but then just put out the exact opposite.

DA:I isn't perfect & i know people who are complaining ain't just "haters", is a shame that people with constructive criticism are usually drowned out by the crowd who just hate on every single thing & give little personal examples of what they disliked other then "EAware SUX!!!!"

[Draninus]

All of the "get over it" posts are just as irritating as the rage posts about the issues with this game.

 

The fact of the matter is, there is a video still floating around Youtube with Mike Laidlaw & company talking about how this was supposed to be a "PC game made by PC gamers".  This game is nothing of the sort.  There was further talk about how this game was supposed to be built around what made Origins great and expand on it.  I don't see much of that either, especially in the gameplay, outside of the connections to the events that took place during Origins.  Had they delivered on their promises, which they could have in my opinion while retaining the large and beautiful world they created, then all of the backlash on these forums and elsewhere wouldn't be happening.  The problem is, they didn't deliver on many of their promises.  This is coming from someone who is still enjoying the game, but I am still going to call it like I see it.  This isn't the game that was being marketed prior to release.

 

Responding to someone pointing out what I said above by saying "get over it" or "this game is moving in a new direction" is a pretty poor response, in my opinion.  You're basically ignoring that the person pointing out what I detailed above has a legitimate complaint.  I understand the issues people have with the overly angry, profanity ridden posts, but dismissing legitimate complaints purely on the basis that it is a complaint is just as bad.

[In Exile]

I for one would enjoy an indepth RPG designed by people taking the best of what's been done and bringing it in new dirctions on my console. While I've been fascinated by Bioware's first forray on consoles, I've been less enthused by their latest works. Not because they didn't strive to equal their past works, but because they didn't try to improve upon them and making better RPGs.

 

What makes an RPG an RPG is basically a minefield. For example, some people think moving away from the IWD hive-mind create-a-party is a good thing.Others lament those days. I think, for example, Wasteland 2 is unplayable as an RPG for that reason. Others love it. etc. 

[King Dragonlord]

Wish people could realize this...DA:I doesn't strive to reinvent the nostalgia of old, they are moving in a new direction and trying to create a new path. It's not like Dragon Age Origins, and just as much of us are delighted by that as are sad.

 

"it is a beautiful game so despite all the glitches and issues I have with the PC controls in combat. But it is NOT a Role play game as I have no real control over my stats and only 8 slots of the actions open.  I bought this game because it was advertises as made for PC and a RP game. So when we ****** about it not being one and are told we need to get over it, I just get angry. I do NOT have to get over it.  I have no control over having advisors forced on me that I have killed in other playthroughs. Leliana should stay dead. I shouldn't have to game IC with someone that is dead and that I despise.  Cullan as well is someone I would NEVER work with. yet in here I am guided or forced to work with them. In BG I could choose who I worked with. Hence the anger at DAI being sold as made for PC RPG."

 

 

1. How are your base stats important to a roleplaying game? I mean...do you have a hard time roleplaying yourself because you don't get to deterimine your attributes? I honestly don't understand this at all...you still determine your attributes by skills and equipment.

 

2. So a retcon means this isn't a RPG? This is what happens in games where you have massive amounts of choices.

 

3. You wouldn't work with cullen? okay then, how about you die in the wilds and then story over and you can RP it how you want? Are you really bashing the game because you can't totally kick characters out of the story you don't like? I didn't like EDI in ME2, but I couldn't kick her out of the airlock.

 

The complaints you have for this game literally apply to almost every other RPG. Every RPG requires you to interact with people you may or may not like, and you can't just tell them off. You are basically shitting on the game for having an actual story that you are required to go through...but yes..that is why people buy this game...not for an open slate game...that is what a tabletop RPG is for. The attributes point is a fair point in that it is odd, but i hardly had any moments where my lack of being able to put an extra point in intellect stopped me from roleplaying.

 

1) In a game like this one maybe it doesn't matter much since the system is so stripped down that attributes only affect combat. But many rpgs (even fairly recent ones like Fallout New Vegas) do what they can to make your stats reflect in what you can and can't do. If you have low strength, you can't use big guns. If you have low intelligence, you'll have a harder time picking locks and hacking computers. If you have a high charisma, you can make persuade checks (and actually, Fallout did a good job of letting other stats affect dialog in interesting ways.) This all lends itself to you designing your character around whatever concept you have for it. AND New Vegas included choices just like Bioware (but better, more flexible). In Dragon Age Origins, they did a little of this themselves because they hadn't completely shaken off their roots yet. Why can't they improve this aspect of the game (which did exist) just like they improved others? Going back to pure combat is regression not progress. Especially the way they "simplified" everything (a polite way of saying they couldn't be arsed to give as many character options).

 

3) ME2 at least let you express your displeasure as soon as you were told there was an AI on board. And there is a very good opportunity to kick Cullen out, during the transition from Haven to Skyhold when, guess what, a lot of your staff rotates. Even though you're now the Inquisitor people can just decide "Oh, I wanted to putter around in the garden more, here you deal with her now." Or "I wanted to focus on my research, you're talking to my assistant now." Way to make me feel like the Inquisitor. Thanks. 

 

"But, Dragonlord. Thats not realistic. Do you really need to control everything to feed your precious little ego?"

 

No, just where it makes sense. Bioware used to deliver a lot more on giving you control over the things your character should have control over. If you buy Oreos only to discover they suddenly have a peanut butter filling, well maybe some people would like that but it would be a very unpleasant surprise to someone expecting to find regular Oreos in the package. 

[scrutinizer]

Because plot demands her presence.

If you're looking for rationalization, she was killed near the most potent healing artifact in Thedas.

 

I say it was a mistake to give the players an option to kill her in Origins, if they needed her in further games and books in the franchise.

And that just shows you how these 'masters of storytelling' leave themselves in a blind alley with their heads cocked like the confused dogs that they are.