75 réponses à ce sujet

[Wanderlust14]

Yeah in my head I was comparing it to modern analogs. Smithing in my head was like staying in town and going to university or trade school. Running off in the hopes of getting into enchanting is like in real life turning down scholarships to university and running off to Hollywood because you read some books about acting and it sounds really neato. 

 

In a world like this there's going to be a steady demand for smithing work. Everyone relies on tools and or weapons and those things break. Enchanting is going to be a luxury.

 

But its her talking about how she read these books that talk about magic that reminded me of me at that age. I wanted to be a scientist. I read books about science and thought science sounded really neat. Computers sounded boring. Well, I entered college, started doing the work and discovered that I liked reading about science a lot more than I actually liked doing science. Eventually years later I read some stuff about computers that changed how I thought about them and now thats my career field. This sort of thing happens to most people. You get to college, you change majors.

 

For every Dagna, there would be a hundred dwarves seemingly just like her that either lacked the aptitude or discovered that actual enchanting is not as exciting as they thought. Only, because of how their society works, they're up a creek without a paddle. Better hope you can hook up with the Merchants Guild because thats all you got now. Or maybe you can resume your smithing education with some surface smith. But the point is, you've lost all your family support. Its incredibly irresponsible. At least Dagna had a guaranteed in when the Warden helped her, so thats part of it taken care of. But they're still taking a chance on her having any talent.

 

In real life this would end badly, is my point and given the tone of the series, her success is really incongruous with everything else. Especially when DAI establishes that she's successful no matter what.

The thing is, there isn't a hundred dwarves like her. It is actually pretty unusual what she wants to do and I totally disagree, I don't think this would have ended badly in the real world or not. This is her passion and I will tell you, I went to university as well and I did not change majors. Hell, I even went to a school that specializes in what I love to do and I am still doing. Perhaps we are looking at her through two very different eyes, because of our life experiences, but I am just saying, dont count Dagna out for taking this risk with or without your approval. She was very intelligent and obviously had a great deal of learning. Even if she did not succeed in the circles, I am sure she would have figured something out (going to a University, a library, a smithy, who knows). 

[King Dragonlord]

The thing is, there isn't a hundred dwarves like her. It is actually pretty unusual what she wants to do and I totally disagree, I don't think this would have ended badly in the real world or not. This is her passion and I will tell you, I went to university as well and I did not change majors. Hell, I even went to a school that specializes in what I love to do and I am still doing. Perhaps we are looking at her through two very different eyes, because of our life experiences, but I am just saying, dont count Dagna out for taking this risk with or without your approval. She was very intelligent and obviously had a great deal of learning. Even if she did not succeed in the circles, I am sure she would have figured something out (going to a University, a library, a smithy, who knows). 

 

The only evidence we get of that intelligence comes in the epilogue and in this game. She certainly doesn't come off as smart when you're talking to her (being able to regurgitate something she read doesn't count) 

 

Dagna stories as cliche in entertainment. Its the old trope of the writer/actor/artist who's father tells him he's going to work in the mine like he does. The video game industry is filled with successful Dagnas surrounded by other successful Dagnas (between the writers and the developers) which results in a distorted perspective on the issue.

 

And pursuing your passions is one thing, throwing away all your Plan B's in hopes that your Plan A works out is foolish.  In real life there are smart ways to go about it. Like if you want to get into making video games, don't get a game design degree, get a computer science or software engineering degree.

 

Side Note: Isn't there a Dwarven Enchanter manning one of the shops in DAO? Why couldn't she have stayed home and apprenticed to that dude? Why aren't more Dwarves enchanting? They don't have access to magic but they have abundant access to Lyrium. Makes Dagna's plan seem kind of stupid. 

[Pierce Miller]

Isn't she a blacksmith if she stays in orzammar? Remember she was working at her fathers shop. So if we don't help her I thought she would have been a master blacksmith by now.

[sunnydxmen]

why should she listen to the warden anyhow this is her dream she wont let nothing stop her from accomplishing it.

[King Dragonlord]

why should she listen to the warden anyhow this is her dream she wont let nothing stop her from accomplishing it.

 

It isn't just about the Warden ruling her life as its being cast here. Its a few different things.

1) Yes, the Warden's opinion of what Dagna should do

2) Whether or not the Warden recommends Dagna to the college (we should all know what value recommendations carry).

3) What kind of information Dagna gets from the Warden which can be any of the following.

    A) I recommended you and the college accepted.

    I'm not going to recommend you.

    C) The College was destroyed.

 

Now sure whatever, if you want to say Dagna made it anyway fine. But it really undercuts it as a story point in the first game. From now on any time I go back to Dragon Age Origins, I'm going to ignore Dagna because its a waste of time. The Hero of Ferelden is too busy fighting the Blight to make a special trip to the college anyway but especially so when the girl in question doesn't actually need help. 

 

Likewise I'm going to roll my eyes at Sten for being unable to reconcile a female warrior in his head because I now know thats apparently not a big deal in Qunari society and Sten is just being obtuse. 

 

And of course, I could care less if Hawke makes Viscount because its only ever mentioned in the epilogue of DA2 and by the time we get to three, he's already taken off. 

 

Nor will I fret over the whole Bhelen vs Harrowmont thing. Might as well make it Harrowmont since he seems like a nice guy and it has no visible impact on Thedas.

[HarbingerCollector]

sorry for the Necro,but I had to reply after seeing some people saying that choices not mattering is fine


The point of her quest was to give the choice
1)Help her go to the circle

2)Convince her to stay at Orzammar

If she was going to do it anyway,what was the point of us doing that quest? seriously? why we bothered do that quest if she going to do the first option?.
why do we get a choice at all?
they could just have removed the second option and say "Convince the circle to accept Dagna"

That's it,end of the controversy.
But if we get a choice,why not let that matter?
That's not complicated to make a choice matter.

respect your players' choices,Bioware 
 

[Sifr]

Except that it was never our choice in the first place, it was hers.

 

She already wanted to go, all we did was give her a slight push out the door and/or put in a good word for her. If we told her to stay, then all we were doing is telling her not to do something she clearly wanted to do, so it seems she ultimately decided to ignore us and leave for the surface on her own, either to learn her craft at the Ferelden Circle or somewhere else?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well dragon age isn't mass effect ,here we don't have even illusion that choice matters. In first place almost all of your choices are either ignored or twisted so it ends the same anyway.

 

Pretty much only as far choices in series that seems to matter are who is orzammar king and whether you spare anders or not and this is off-screen.

[Dai Grepher]

I have to side with BioWare on this one. The choice was always to either be a part of Dagna's story or not. She will become the arcanist no matter what. Your only choice is to be part of it or not, and possibly profit from it or not. Even if the circle is destroyed, it gets new mages regardless for Witch Hunt. So Dagna always goes there. Convincing her to stay in Orzammar is only temporary. She eventually realizes that her true talent is being wasted.

[thats1evildude]

Your choice still had an impact; it just wasn't the impact you expected. Her road to leaving Orzammar was a lot harder if you didn't help her. You can hear the resentment in her voice.

[Master Warder Z_]

I hope she gets a dirk in the belly.

Maybe it will reinforce the whole "you should have stayed home" thing.

Very annoying character, stupid too.

[TK514]

If they were going to make her a master enchanter regardless of the choice in DA:O, I wish they hadn't wasted the zots on alternate dialog.  One generic speech from her would have been more than sufficient, and we could have used the extra effort in plenty of other places.

[Dabrikishaw]

I feel like if Dagna was always going to be our Arcanist no matter what, then her fate shouldn't have been added to the Dragon Age Keep. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I feel like if Dagna was always going to be our Arcanist no matter what, then her fate shouldn't have been added to the Dragon Age Keep. 

Why? Just because it doesn't have a huge effect doesn't mean it doesn't have enough of one to be worth mentioning in conversation. Just because the Warden telling her not to made no difference in the long run doesn't mean a Dagna who doesn't know she'd have gotten up the courage to do it anyway won't feel like it did.

[S.W.]

Turns out playing one character in a universe doesn't make your choices the word of god. What a surprise.

 

Your choices impact the way Dagna's likely achieved what she has - it's just the case that your Warden added or removed a few obstacles in getting there. If you're going to get upset about a retcon which dismisses your choices completely, get angry about Leliana.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Turns out playing one character in a universe doesn't make your choices the word of god. What a surprise.

 

Your choices impact the way Dagna's likely achieved what she has - it's just the case that your Warden added or removed a few obstacles in getting there. If you're going to get upset about a retcon which dismisses your choices completely, get angry about Leliana.

While I can to some degree understand anger over Leiliana's resurrection, that doesn't dismiss the choice completely either: the death happened. Leiliana's even to some degree still angry over it if I remember the Youtube video correctly. I can understand being frustrated at that choice not having bigger consequences than it did, even if between the massive amount of lyrium near the corpse (and lyrium now being alive and therefore potentially possessed of free will and the ability to focus its power) and the very real possibility that the Chantry isn't wrong about the Maker being present there there is some justification for what happened. Still, they acknowledge that something had to happen.

 

What annoys me is that the decision to kill Genitivi to keep the Temple of Sacred Ashes secret wasn't even in the Keep last I checked. Sure, there's some wiggle room if they say that the Chantry found the papers I don't remember having the option to remove from Genitivi's house, but since it's not even in the Keep that clearly doesn't happen.

[Cobra's_back]

Wasn't the blight about ten years ago? Even if you told her no, couldn't she find another way? 

[Domiel Angelus]

Now THAT I agree with, in regards to Bhelen or Harrowmont. That choice is rendered completely pointless. Bhelen would've taken advantage of the surface war to capitalize on profit for Orzammar. Harrowmont might've denied Templars and Mages their lyrium and you'd have a quest where the Templars and/or Mages are trying to storm the city (and failing). I could go on and on about how the two respective choices would've interacted with the Mage-Templar war, at least up to the point of being given a revelation about the real threat.

 

As for Morrigan, well yeah. You stabbed her, but you were never able to be certain you killed her. And she is a mage. Mages heal wounds. So you're definitely going to see her again. I don't see that as Bioware ignoring our decisions, as it was clear from that ending that her story wasn't done yet. She'll probably mention it once or twice though. Be nice if they made her say she had a scar.

 

What matters in that scenario isn't the decision itself, but how your Warden reacted. You shaped your Warden through that choice.

 

Leliana is one they promised us an explanation for, yet I've seen nothing yet to indicate anything of the sort. But we were never able to confirm her death and the very nature of where she "died" is weird in nature. I've thought up a few explanations. I'm sure other fans have.

 

I doubt Bioware actually has.

 

I'm not saying don't call out decisions that are made pointless. What I am saying is that one must understand the difference between meaningful decisions that affect the world and decisions that don't.

 

Not every choice you make has an impact on the world in such a grand scale. Not every choice will change a person's dreams, desires, goals, and mentality.

 

 

Mages have all forgotten how to heal wounds because Morrigan used it to jump the shark, as for Leliana being alive she claims the Maker resurrected her if you talk to her early enough in DA:I.  

 

I say in both cases it was by fan outcry or writer fiat that they're both still around. They can bring back the secondary characters but the guy/girl that saves the world is just SoL unless you send a friend (Alistair), a man that will be thought of as a Martyr (Loghain) or by making a deal with the devil (Morrigan); the whole hero's death thing would have been much better if you didn't get an instant reprieve by being able to resurrect your Warden for Awakening as if nothing happened. 

[Magdalena11]

What I like about not helping Dagna leave Orzammar is that even without anyone to help her, she still manages to find a way.  That's pretty inspirational.

[Caddius]

Yeah, somehow. Like how somehow the Warden convinced the Circle to take her with a single dialogue option in the first place .

As I recall, Irving's response was something along the lines of, "Oh? She knows she can't be a mage, we can't train her-oh. A researcher. Very, very interesting. I'd be happy to have her. Do you have her resume, or? Oh, you'll just walk through the Blight to tell her in person? Young people these days."

Dagna's one of the choices that the player's decisions don't affect too much that makes sense. As opposed to offing Leliana. 

[Master Warder Z_]

What I like about not helping Dagna leave Orzammar is that even without anyone to help her, she still manages to find a way. That's pretty inspirational.

Not considering she's a international menace.

Seriously the Warden was doing a favor for world stability.

[raging_monkey]

Dagna for divine?

[Master Warder Z_]

A Dwarf? Who hasn't even mentioned converting? Ha

[raging_monkey]

I can dream can't I

[Shadow Fox]

Not considering she's a international menace.

Seriously the Warden was doing a favor for world stability.

...What?