137 réponses à ce sujet

[Fardreamer]

Flemeth was once a young woman who had been betrayed (by her husband because she loved another man). Mythal who had also been betrayed came to her while she was praying to the gods for justice. And the two of them joined to grant justice for one another.

What we know of Andraste is that she was betrayed by her husband because he was jealous of her relationship with the Maker.

It just seems to fit. It also explains why Andraste is so often associated with dragons.

[Toasted Llama]

Before DA:I I was doubting back and forth that Flemeth was either Andraste or Fen'Harel, but when it was revealed she was Mythal, I basically dropped any other theory.

I shouldn't, because the Andraste theory still holds a lot of water. The way you've put it makes a lot of sense.

[Reznore57]

It's possible Andraste was Mythal .But it's impossible Andraste was Flemeth .(Flemeth wasn't born yet)

 

To be honest ,I have doubts , huge doubts Andraste= Mythal.

It works for the justice seeking Mythal , but at that point Mythal has already been murdered , betrayed and was totally sour and pissed off.

So the chances of her seeking Andraste to make a better world  when she was already on her path of vengeance is really low.

[Fardreamer]

Where does it say that Flemeth wasn't born at the time of Andraste? As far as I know no one knows when Flemeth's betrayal occurred. The tale of Flemeth is an old chasind legend. Didn't Andraste unite the chasind barbarians in the original rebellion against Tevinter?

[Reznore57]

Where does it say that Flemeth wasn't born at the time of Andraste? As far as I know no one knows when Flemeth's betrayal occurred. The tale of Flemeth is an old chasind legend. Didn't Andraste unite the chasind barbarians in the original rebellion against Tevinter?

 

Flemeth was born during the tower age if I remember correctly.

Andraste was born before the Chantry Age calendar was even in place.

[Heimdall]

Flemeth wasn't born at the time of Andraste.

It is possible that Andraste was another vessel of Mythal, but I doubt it. It just doesn't seem to fit. I have no clue what Andraste is. I'm inclined to think she is either some other God's vessel or exactly what she appeared to be.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

I go with the Tevinter theory; Andraste was a powerful rebel mage, probably long dead.

[Wildspirit]

Well it's entirely possible that Mythal = Andraste... it would not be the first time different people have different faith but with lots in common

 

But that's just theory.

 

As for Flemmeth, I suspected that she was "something else" but now it's clear... I didn't like the character in DA:O and DAII but the way she's introduced in DA:I made me like here a little bit. It was unexpected at least x)

[ForgottenWarrior]

Yes! Put this right into title!

[DarkSpiral]

As others above have said, its highly unlikely that Flemeth is Andraste.

[Hydwn]

Where does it say that Flemeth wasn't born at the time of Andraste? As far as I know no one knows when Flemeth's betrayal occurred. The tale of Flemeth is an old chasind legend. Didn't Andraste unite the chasind barbarians in the original rebellion against Tevinter?

 

It actually says in World of Thedas that "Flementh of Highever" was born in 3:00 - I forget which age that is.  That's why I thought she was a reborn archdemon/old god, because she was 25 years old when the archdemon Toth died.

[SeraphimNL]

It makes a lot of sense, for one it's not unheard of for a mythical figure to receive various different names from different civilizations - who each then warp their image to what they need it to be. Let's not forget that Mythal was already a spirit long before she entered Flemeth, according to herself. Also the whole hellbent-on-revenge-thing she has going on suits Andraste. After all, we're not sure yet who really wronged Mythal and why she's so eager to avenge herself. 

 

It really makes me wonder if Flemeth was the woman in the Fade. She's never hidden her Flemeth-identity before, so it's not really characteristic - but I think we all suspect it wasn't Justinia. Altho, I guess Leliana's quest makes me suspect it was Justinia. But then it could've been Andraste just passing on Justinia's final words/thoughts out of kindness to her loyal servant. 

[pottman]

Mythal did a lot body jumping, so maybe Andraste was one of many hosts. And, like any myth, this got distorted into the Maker reaching out her, and all that jazz. Makes one think if any of the Chantry's teachings are true, probably not much.

[Rifneno]

No.  Andraste was the OGB from the first archdemon.

 

My favorite part of Andraste's story is with Archon Hessarian and how, when she was being burned at the stake, Hessarian suddenly and totally reformed to support Andraste's political and religious views and killed her with his sword to spare her the pain of burning.

 

It sounds totally legit because there's no way Andraste pulled the same trick Corypheus did in Legacy by switching bodies with Hessarian and I'm sure the sword was totally a mercy killing and not an attempt to shut her up before she recovered from the confusion and called it out.  Legit as hell, you guys.

[pottman]

Or, Chantry propaganda. Hessarian did convert, but it could have been done later, due political pressures from the growing Andrastian faith.

[Rifneno]

Or, Chantry propaganda. Hessarian did convert, but it could have been done later, due political pressures from the growing Andrastian faith.

If we were talking about real life, I'd agree.  But this is a work of fiction, written around drama and reveals.  The truth is never simple.  Occam's Razor doesn't apply to fiction well.

[pottman]

If we were talking about real life, I'd agree. But this is a work of fiction, written around drama and reveals. The truth is never simple. Occam's Razor doesn't apply to fiction well.

Yes, but was there a dark ritual done during the first blight? And, can an OGB live that long? We know Elven god possession can result in a pretty long life span, but Old Gods? Maybe. If one assumes that gods in Thedas have similar powers, but that's just an if. The fact is we don't know, one can only guess, theorize. So, my guess is as good as yours.

[Reznore57]

I don't think the old gods and elven gods are really different things.

 

Spoiler

First reading text in the temple of Mythal about elven Gods , some of them seems to have been close to dragons , perhaps shapeshifting abilities.

Also Flemeth/Mythal able to turn into a dragon.

Morrigan able to turn in a dragon after drinking from the well .

A dragon was guarding Mythal altar.

 

And Solas can't stand the Grey Wardens , what do they do ?They kill the old gods and destroy their souls.

And Tevinter culture is based on the destroyed elven culture , they scavenged what they could .The magic , and probably the gods too.

 

There's also talks of mirror and distortion in the elven gods tales , possible the elven gods turned into the Forgotten ones after some corruption and then Tevinter began to worship the Forgotten Ones .So old Gods are the corrupted elven gods.

 

There's 9 elven Gods (I think) two we know escaped whatever happened .Mythal and Fen HArel.

And there's 7 old gods (9-2 =7)

 

[pottman]

I don't think the old gods and elven gods are really different things.

First reading text in the temple of Mythal about elven Gods , some of them seems to have been close to dragons , perhaps shapeshifting abilities.

Also Flemeth/Mythal able to turn into a dragon.

Morrigan able to turn in a dragon after drinking from the well .

A dragon was guarding Mythal altar.

 

And Solas can't stand the Grey Wardens , what do they do ?They kill the old gods and destroy their souls.

And Tevinter culture is based on the destroyed elven culture , they scavenged what they could .The magic , and probably the gods too.

 

There's also talks of mirror and distortion in the elven gods tales , possible the elven gods turned into the Forgotten ones after some corruption and then Tevinter began to worship the Forgotten Ones .So old Gods are the corrupted elven gods.

 

There's 9 elven Gods (I think) two we know escaped whatever happened .Mythal and Fen HArel.

And there's 7 old gods (9-2 =7)

 

But I still doubt the old god baby reasoning, so unless they pull something out of their asses in the next the game or in the books/comics, I'm still going with Andraste was just Mythal's host. 

[Rifneno]

Yes, but was there a dark ritual done during the first blight? And, can an OGB live that long? We know Elven god possession can result in a pretty long life span, but Old Gods? Maybe. If one assumes that gods in Thedas have similar powers, but that's just an if. The fact is we don't know, one can only guess, theorize. So, my guess is as good as yours.

Was there a dark ritual done back then?  That's a bit of a silly question, don't you think?  How could we possibly know who did what during the final battle of the First Blight?  We don't even know the name of the hero who slew the archdemon (which I've always thought was very strange).  Who could say who was playing hide the pickle with whom the night before?

As for the length of time, that's exactly why I think Andraste is the OGB.  -203 Ancient.  That was the year of the Battle of the Silent Plains, and the year Andraste was born.  She was born the exact same year the Dumat archdemon was slain.  That's some pretty insanely coincidental timing, don't you think?

[Kantr]

Possibly. Assuming the standard 9 months from conception to birth. Enough time to get to Denerim from the silent plains?

[Ogillardetta]

I think she is Mythal and nothing more. I suspected this since the shinre in DA2. 

[TK514]

Why would Andraste be Mythal?  Andraste wasn't betrayed by Maferath until the end of the war, and then she immediately died.  There's no resurrection story around Andraste, nor any post-execution vengeful wraith tales.  Basically, no time nor reason for Mythal to possess a corpse that quickly became ash.

 

Plus the whole thing with Flemeth being born after Andraste died.

[Taleroth]

If she's connected to Andraste at all, she's one of her daughters.

[Fardreamer]

So Andraste was just what she appears to be and nothing more?  That doesn't sound very much like the BW lore I know.