190 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I say her life is mundane in that it does not involve any magical elements.(Anyone who is not a mage is a mundane to me)
Her life IS shallow,she moves from city to city,stealing from and hating the nobility but doing nothing significant about it.Even Solas,the dread wolf,tries to advise her on how she would make her organization more effective and actually help the people she claims to be fighting for,she rejects this in favour of pranks,murders and fart jokes.

Actually what she says to Solas is that she doesn't see a point to replacing the top of society, that there would just be a new top doing the same old things all over again... And Solas admits that she has a point.

[Heimdall]

Yeah I liked him as well. Slim didn't even mind if you were a noble yourself ether.
 
Funny though another character who was a rogue type and a Fereldan who Sera could have been modeled around. Instead we get her, the elf who hates elves, yet champions the downtrodden little guys, so long as they don't have pointy ears, Screw those guys! Those arrogent bastards moving around the countryside in thier fancy moving refugee camps collecting old artifacts and taking in elves who flee from the city. They just like to think thier so much better than everyone else!

Sera doesn't hate elves, when she talks about things being "too elfy" she's usually referring to the Dalish and their superiority complex, or alternatively the general idea that elves deserve a special group apart everyone else.

[Ennai and 54 others]

Actually what she says to Solas is that she doesn't see a point to replacing the top of society, that there would just be a new top doing the same old things all over again... And Solas admits that she has a point.

It still makes it all shallow.She isn't making a real difference.She is just a thief that acts out revenge fantasies.Worse,she is a murderer.That noble guy you meet in her recruitment mission did not deserve to die(and people were likely depending on him).Neither did that noble whose head she bashed in.

I don't really care that she has a shallow ,mundane, meaningless existence,most of us do.My point was that staying with the inquisition was in no way a selfless act.It was self preservation.(Which is ok)

[rubynorman]

Isabela.

 

I understood her speech and why she did things.

Seems like she isn't a wildcard then lol

[skotie]

Sera doesn't hate elves, when she talks about things being "too elfy" she's usually referring to the Dalish and their superiority complex, or alternatively the general idea that elves deserve a special group apart everyone else.

Yet she fails to realize why Dalish are wondering around in the first place. It's not a superiorty complex to not want to live in squalor in human cities and be treated like less than people by humans. What other choices do elves have other than wonder with the Dalish or live lower then the poorest humans in thier cities? What unite the few remaining elvan clans and decalre war against humans, yeah that would go over real well I bet.

 

Also if the Dalish don't deserve a place to call own in the world why should every other race in Thedas deserve one? Why is not believeing in the religion of the humans who destroyed your homeland (the Dales not Arlathan) and instead seeking to reclaim the past and worshiping elvan gods of old being too elfy?

 

Perhaps if the chantry wouldn't slaughter them for believe in a god other than the maker, they might be inclined to believe "We can all live together as equals!" But I think exalted marches have already proved believe in anything other than the maker gets you killed. Strange though elves who accept the maker and the chantry still arent regarded as equals to humans by the general populace.

 

Anything less than an elvan homeland ruled by elves and they are never going to get fair treatment, the only ones with even a chance to perhaps do this are the Dalish. But yeah they're too Elfy. Certainly trying to reclaim your past and eventually create a homeland for an entire race of oppressed people is being too elfy. I mean everyone who wants to be treated fairly MUST have a superiorty complex.

[Heimdall]

It still makes it all shallow.She isn't making a real difference.She is just a thief that acts out revenge fantasies.Worse,she is a murderer.That noble guy you meet in her recruitment mission did not deserve to die(and people were likely depending on him).Neither did that noble whose head she bashed in.
I don't really care that she has a shallow ,mundane, meaningless existence,most of us do.My point was that staying with the inquisition was in no way a selfless act.It was self preservation.(Which is ok)

Not trying to argue on the latter point. But I disagree that she's not making a difference. She tries to make life more bearable for the "little people" and give some of the particularly egregious nobles payback. (Not sure why you're trying to defend the guy you meet in the recruitment mission, he identified himself as an enemy of the Inqusition and attacked you before she intervened. The other guy killed one of her friends.). Just because she isn't trying to reform a system doesn't mean she isn't making a difference in people's lives.

[Heimdall]

Yet she fails to realize why Dalish are wondering around in the first place. It's not a superiorty complex to not want to live in squalor in human cities and be treated like less than people by humans. What other choices do elves have other than wonder with the Dalish or live lower then the poorest humans in thier cities? What unite the few remaining elvan clans and decalre war against humans, yeah that would go over real well I bet.
 
Also if the Dalish don't deserve a place to call own in the world why should every other race in Thedas deserve one? Why is not believeing in the religion of the humans who destroyed your homeland (the Dales not Arlathan) and instead seeking to reclaim the past and worshiping elvan gods of old being too elfy?
 
Perhaps if the chantry wouldn't slaughter them for believe in a god other than the maker, they might be inclined to believe "We can all live together as equals!" But I think exalted marches have already proved believe in anything other than the maker gets you killed. Strange though elves who accept the maker and the chantry still arent regarded as equals to humans by the general populace.
 
Anything less than an elvan homeland ruled by elves and they are never going to get fair treatment, the only ones with even a chance to perhaps do this are the Dalish. But yeah they're too Elfy. Certainly trying to reclaim your past and eventually create a homeland for an entire race of oppressed people is being too elfy. I mean everyone who wants to be treated fairly MUST have a superiorty complex.

They are too "Elfy" because they think they're the only "true elves" and look down on people like Sera for not following their ways. She has no reason to like people who don't acknowledge her beliefs as valid any more than she does theirs. They really do think they're better than City Elves, whom they barely acknowledge as elves at all. Tell me why she should have any fondness for them? As ide from some misguided notion that race = culture?

I'm not going to get into the thorny issue of why the wars with the Dales started, though I will note that the Chantry has no standing kill on sight order for the Dalish. The only reason the Templars occasionally go after them is because of their Mages.

[skotie]

They are too "Elfy" because they think they're the only "true elves" and look down on people like Sera for not following their ways. She has no reason to like people who don't acknowledge her beliefs as valid any more than she does theirs. They really do think they're better than City Elves, whom they barely acknowledge as elves at all. Tell me why she should have any fondness for them? As ide from some misguided notion that race = culture?

I'm not going to get into the thorny issue of why the wars with the Dales started, though I will note that the Chantry has no standing kill on sight order for the Dalish. The only reason the Templars occasionally go after them is because of their Mages.

Funny though because even though they look down on them as not being true elves, they still accept them and let them join thier clans if they seek aid. Play DAO if you want proof. Yes the Dalish look down on city elves, because they are all but accepting slavery, call them free if you like but they are little better off than those living under the qun, they are "Free to live as a human sees fit."

 

In regards to the exalted march on the dales the elves had a hand in starting it but the chantry is the one who quite literially destroyed the only homeland of thier former allies agianst Tevinter. Also just a fun fact if you played DAO, an exalted march was almost called on Orzammar if you helped the dwarven brother get a chantry started. It was in events following the end of the game, and doesn't happen (likely only because the chantry needs lyrium for thier templars to control mages). They had good cause but still, another case of how humans won't let anyone believe anything other than thier religion.

 

Sadly thier was nothing stopping the march on the dales as they had nothing to lose by slaughtering the heretics and everything to gain by taking back the land.

[Heimdall]

Funny though because even though they look down on them as not being true elves, they still accept them and let them join thier clans if they seek aid. Play DAO if you want proof. Yes the Dalish look down on city elves, because they are all but accepting slavery, call them free if you like but they are little better off than those living under the qun, they are "Free to live as a human sees fit."
 
In regards to the exalted march on the dales the elves had a hand in starting it but the chantry is the one who quite literially destroyed the only homeland of thier former allies agianst Tevinter. Also just a fun fact if you played DAO, an exalted march was almost called on Orzammar if you helped the dwarven brother get a chantry started. It was in events following the end of the game, and doesn't happen (likely only because the chantry needs lyrium for thier templars to control mages). They had good cause but still, another case of how humans won't let anyone believe anything other than thier religion.
 
Sadly thier was nothing stopping the march on the dales and they had nothing to lose by slaughtering the hertics and everything to gain by taking back the land.

Yes, they accept them as long as they give up they're former lives and adopt the Dalish way. That's not helping your argument. They aren't any more tolerant of Andrastian ways than the Chantry is of theirs. Sera is Andrastian. So please try again and answer my question: why should Sera have any fond feelings for the Dalish?

As to the Orzammar situation, the Divine only contemplated a March because the government of Orzammar was actively suppressing Andrastians and one of their own, Brother Burkel, was killed. Incidently, the Dalish too had forbidden the building of Chantries and exiled missionaries (Probably because they were actually succeeding in finding converts). So tell me again who wasn't letting who have their religion?

[myahele]

Isabela doesn't laugh at you during sex or makes fun of your crotch

[celestialfury]

I always wonder if I've missed something because I don't even recall encountering many Dalish who believe they are the only true elves, and even then they wouldn't represent all Dalish the same way Vaughan from Origins doesn't represent all humans. You also can't generalize that there is universally bad blood between Dalish and City Elves because as the City Elf origin showed, elves in the Denerim alienage thought the Dalish were a myth, there's also an elf who flees and joins the Dalish clan in the Brecilian Forest. 

[WildOrchid]

Isabela doesn't laugh at you during sex or makes fun of your crotch

 

...the wild sex continued after that.

[skotie]

Yes, they accept them as long as they give up they're former lives and adopt the Dalish way. That's not helping your argument. They aren't any more tolerant of Andrastian ways than the Chantry is of theirs. Sera is Andrastian. So please try again and answer my question: why should Sera have any fond feelings for the Dalish?

As to the Orzammar situation, the Divine only contemplated a March because the government of Orzammar was actively suppressing Andrastians and one of their own, Brother Burkel, was killed. Incidently, the Dalish too had forbidden the building of Chantries and exiled missionaries (Probably because they were actually succeeding in finding converts). So tell me again who wasn't letting who have their religion?

Because she is an elf? What living as a second class citizen in an alienage where you might get raped by a noble on your wedding day or  be sold into slavery for a human civil war effort is a way of life she might choose? Well I guess that does sound like something she would go along with.

 

Right it's just dwarves and elfs who suppress religions they don't agree with right!!! Yes because I remember the temple of the creators in denerim that one time, or there was the halls with the dwarven paragons as well I strolled past on my way to see wade.. o wait right, I didn't actually see that because they don't exist in human society. But you know what the elves or dwarfs didn't do!? They didn't destroy any other races homeland because they wouldn't allow thier religion to be spread there, no they didn't do that.

[Heimdall]

I always wonder if I've missed something because I don't even recall encountering many Dalish who believe they are the only true elves, and even then they wouldn't represent all Dalish the same way Vaughan from Origins doesn't represent all humans. You also can't generalize that there is universally bad blood between Dalish and City Elves because as the City Elf origin showed, elves in the Denerim alienage thought the Dalish were a myth, there's also an elf who flees and joins the Dalish clan in the Brecilian Forest.

They actually call themselves the last of the Elvhen in DA2 (To which Varric jokes "That's right Hawke, the elves you see elsewhere, figments of your imagination."). And in the Dalish Origin they speak quite patronizingly of the City Elves, saying they need to be retaught the ways of the people because they have lost their way. The clan in Masked Empire, which is thankfully killed off, is the worst of the lot. They pretty much spit on City Elves.

They may not all hate the City Elves, but they all think their way is the only valid way for elves to live and their beliefs the only proper ones for elves.

[Heimdall]

Because she is an elf? What living as a second class citizen in an alienage where you might get raped by a noble on your wedding day or be sold into slavery for a human civil war effort is a way of life she might choose? Well I guess that does sound like something she would go along with.

Right it's just dwarves and elfs who suppress religions they don't agree with right!!! Yes because I remember the temple of the creators in denerim that one time, or there was the halls with the dwarven paragons as well I strolled past on my way to see wade.. o wait right, I didn't actually see that because they don't exist in human society. But you know what the elves or dwarfs didn't do!? They didn't destroy any other races homeland because they wouldn't allow thier religion to be spread there, no they didn't do that.

Exactly what I thought. You think she should because race somehow ties to culture. It doesn't, Sera is distinctly post-racial in her thinking. She's an elf. She was raised by humans. She's Andrastian. In her mind she has a hell of a lot more in common with the "little people", human or elf, of mainstream society than the Dalish squatting in the forest, and she doesn't appreciate it when people try to tell her she owes them a special loyalty because of the shape of her ears.

I'll not be drawn into an argument with no answer. We don't know what started the war with the Dales. My only point, which still stands, is that humans are hardly unique in suppressing foreign religions. Dalish and Dwarves practice it to this day in their own societies.

[Silcron]

I'm quite biased here. I love Isabela, she became my romance option even when I had planned a Hawke to romance someone else or noone (and no, the bug was not involved). Hell, even my Warden couldn't resist her.

Sera on the ohter hand is annoying as hell, and her voice actor does a fantastic work, the way she talks, laughs, it seems it was crafted to specifically be annoying to people like me. I wanna get her to my balcony at the top of the tower and the kick her out of the
Inquisition by hitting her head with a sledgehammer that sends her over the railing, and no, it wouldn't ve the balcony that looks to the inside.

So congratulations bioware that is if you wanted a character that would cause a gut reaction (either good or bad, I know people that love Sera) you succeded.