54 réponses à ce sujet

[Skeevley]

Well, there are still plenty of problems, and it will never reach the glory that was DAO, but after I programmed my Nostromo game pad (I have the old Belkin version, but the newer ones should work also) and discovered the "Isometric Camera Hack", it GOT BETTER, much better actually. Now that I'm actually able to play the game without fighting the controls I'm actually enjoying the game.

 

It's amazing that the PC control structure ever passed QA, and I expect the devs regret it now since that one issue, more than any other, has caused a huge backlash and nightmarish user reviews. I'm sure it has cost them a lot of sales, and some of those people, seeing those initial low reviews, will never come back, even if Bioware fixes the control so that they resemble something PC players can tolerate. Hopefully it will be a lesson well-learned and next time around the devs will spend the time necessary to make the controls work properly "out of the box".

 

Still a LOT of problems to fix, and some things that can't be fixed (the amazing voice-acting and emotional-connection-to-the-characters that were so perfect in DAO are lacking so far in my play through, but are tolerable now that I can at least play the game without frustration).

 

If we get Tactics back and a few more fixes in place this could turn into a completely different beast than the broken thing it was out of the box.

 

Here is hoping that Bioware fixes these controls and other issues fixed ASAP (in time for the Holiday season).

[- Archangel -]

If you take a few minutes to get used to the PC controls they aren't that bad.

 

 

PC gamers are rediculous drama queens.

 

And I say that as primarily a PC gamer.

[Skeevley]

If you take a few minutes to get used to the PC controls they aren't that bad.

 

 

PC gamers are rediculous drama queens.

 

And I say that as primarily a PC gamer.

 

That's simply untrue. Do I expect a game for the PC to have controls designed, at least minimally, with actual PC users in mind? Yes. But outside of Skyrim, which had many UI and control issues (which could luckily be fixed by mods), I've never had to "fight" with a game to get it to work. It's as if a maker of a racing SIM decided that the clutch should be the gas, the brake should be "look behind", the gas pedal should should be the brake, the steering should be reversed... and then gave you no way to change it. (Oh, and provided two different fields of view, both of which frequently failed to provide a view of the track that was actually useful.)

 

The controls, camera, and UI aren't "bad" by PC standards, they are downright disgraceful.

 

Fallout 3 is an example of a UI that was clearly designed for controllers, but in which the dev did the work necessary to make them work on a PC at least reasonably well. Perfect? No way, but acceptable? Yes. (Why didn't they put that amount of work into Skyrim too?)

 

It's a completely different game for me now; playable, usable, enjoyable. Still flawed in some fundamental ways, but leaps and bounds better than the nearly-unplayable release-day disaster. Hopefully an upcoming patch will let me remap my mouse buttons so that I'm not frequently launching accidental attacks when I just want to click on something...

 

Regardless, it's nice to know that the game lurking underneath the interface may not be as bad as it once seemed; a considerable portion of that reaction is probably due to the controls and UI alone...

[sidspacewalker]

I mean like, these guys DID make DA:O AND DA2 right? So like what happened to the PC controls in DA:I haha.

[Spaceweed10]

Well, there are still plenty of problems, and it will never reach the glory that was DAO, but after I programmed my Nostromo game pad (I have the old Belkin version, but the newer ones should work also) and discovered the "Isometric Camera Hack", it GOT BETTER, much better actually. Now that I'm actually able to play the game without fighting the controls I'm actually enjoying the game.

 

It's amazing that the PC control structure ever passed QA, and I expect the devs regret it now since that one issue, more than any other, has caused a huge backlash and nightmarish user reviews. I'm sure it has cost them a lot of sales, and some of those people, seeing those initial low reviews, will never come back, even if Bioware fixes the control so that they resemble something PC players can tolerate. Hopefully it will be a lesson well-learned and next time around the devs will spend the time necessary to make the controls work properly "out of the box".

 

Still a LOT of problems to fix, and some things that can't be fixed (the amazing voice-acting and emotional-connection-to-the-characters that were so perfect in DAO are lacking so far in my play through, but are tolerable now that I can at least play the game without frustration).

 

If we get Tactics back and a few more fixes in place this could turn into a completely different beast than the broken thing it was out of the box.

 

Here is hoping that Bioware fixes these controls and other issues fixed ASAP (in time for the Holiday season).

 

 

That is such hyperbole about the PC controls, I just have to laugh.  I'm playing on PC with m/kb, and except for the tactical view movement - which can be remapped- and the fact mouse buttons don't map in the options, the controls are fine.  Yes, they can be improved, but if this is a game breaker for anyone, I really feel sorry for them /shrug.

[jtzako]

I switched from KB/Mouse to using my XboxOne controller on my PC for DA:I.  I vastly prefer the UI in controller mode vs KB/Mouse.  The odd thing is, for most games I cant stand using controllers but this one it just works.

[mutantspicy]

Please explain Isometric Camera Hack I'm curious. I've been playing with an Xbox controller, and have the game to be very enjoyable, but still not fond of the Camera.  

[AlanC9]

That's simply untrue. Do I expect a game for the PC to have controls designed, at least minimally, with actual PC users in mind? Yes. But outside of Skyrim, which had many UI and control issues (which could luckily be fixed by mods), I've never had to "fight" with a game to get it to work. It's as if a maker of a racing SIM decided that the clutch should be the gas, the brake should be "look behind", the gas pedal should should be the brake, the steering should be reversed... and then gave you no way to change it. (Oh, and provided two different fields of view, both of which frequently failed to provide a view of the track that was actually useful.)
.

I'm not saying you're being a drama queen or anything, but haven't there been several PC games with a control scheme pretty much like DAI's? Mostly MMOs, sure, but people find a way to play those.

[Nukekitten]

In MMOs you're not controlling every character.

[AlanC9]

In MMOs you're not controlling every character.

True. I don't see the relevance. Can you give me a concrete example of when controlling more than one character would make an MMO-style interface less useful?

[Steffin]

If you take a few minutes to get used to the PC controls they aren't that bad.

 

 

PC gamers are rediculous drama queens.

 

And I say that as primarily a PC gamer.

 

 

Real PC gamers don't use controllers. Don't confuse the people complaining saying controllers work better than a KBM as a valid consensus of PC gamers. They are hybrids, confused console gamers who have lost their way. They are not PC gamers.

[- Archangel -]

 

The controls, camera, and UI aren't "bad" by PC standards, they are downright disgraceful.

 

 

Yeah...no drama queen there.

[- Archangel -]

Just an FYI.

 

I'm not going to bother any with all the faux outrage you guys are generating up to throw at me how DAI's PC controls are worst ever...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y

[pdusen]

That is such hyperbole about the PC controls, I just have to laugh.  I'm playing on PC with m/kb, and except for the tactical view movement - which can be remapped- and the fact mouse buttons don't map in the options, the controls are fine.  Yes, they can be improved, but if this is a game breaker for anyone, I really feel sorry for them /shrug.

 

I concur. I'm an exclusively PC mouse/keyboard gamer and have no issues with the controls as they are.

 

I love how old-school CRPG fans seem to think that they're the authorities on what PC gamers want in a game. Frankly, it's rather irritating.

[Realmzmaster]

I have no problems playing DAI with keyboard and mouse. No need to remap anything. I have played games with different controllers on the PC from keyboard and mouse to joystick to trackball to gamepads. Last time I checked I had logged in over 30 years playing PC games. I think that qualifies me as a real PC gamer (whatever that is suppose to be).

 

I have played games with far worst control systems than DAI. Have no real problems with the tactical camera, but as I say to anyone YMMV.

[- Archangel -]

I have no problems playing DAI with keyboard and mouse. No need to remap anything. I have played games with different controllers on the PC from keyboard and mouse to joystick to trackball to gamepads. Last time I checked I had logged in over 30 years playing PC games. I think that qualifies me as a real PC gamer (whatever that is suppose to be).

 

I have played games with far worst control systems than DAI. Have no real problems with the tactical camera, but as I say to anyone YMMV.

My first PC was a Commodore 64.

 

That's why I laugh when these kids try to say anyone who doesn't act like a "PC Gamer Master Race" douchebag isn't a real PC gamer.

 

I wonder how many of them even know what a C64 is without Google.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

As a strictly kb+m gamer (I don't even own a controller) I'm in the same camp as the OP.  These controls are truly terrible, and I'm fighting them (or they're  fighting me) far more than I'm fighting the "enemy".  Just for example, it's incredibly hard to keep the focus on the correct target during combat.  Never had this problem with DAO/DA2, but having it consistently with DAI. 

 

And if one is using the mouse as the primary means of identifying where the focus of any action should be, then it can be impossible to even find  the cursor as it gets lost in all the visual effects.  And why-oh-why does  "right-click+slew" stop working just because one used the mouse to select a particular action (and so moved the cursor to the bottom of the screen's "UI" area?)  And why-oh-why does left-click-on-character-portrait not change to controlling that character, but instead simply forces the currently controlled character to fire/slash in a random direction?

 

Those are just two among many, many problems.  There's also with the fact that the "Tactical Camera" fails to give a broad enough field of view.  Or the "search" function that barely highlights anything, but produces that an irritating "bong" telling you there's something you can't find, then requires such a close approach that one almost has to trip on an item to collect it, coupled with the pointless "hand" icon that appears even though one still cannot yet obtain the item.  Why bother triggering a cursor state change that doesn't really indicate a state change? 

 

Oh... And ever heard of "right-click on location to actually, you know, GO  to (or interact with) the target?  Like in, I don't know, maybe... DAO or DA2?!?  Yeah, the "tac cam" lets you designate "move to location", but using it interrupts the flow of the game in a way that the other method doesn't.  Unlike when using the WASD keys, (yes, I already re-mapped them) moving with the "click to indicate destination" technique allows one to "keep your head on a swivel" as my Drill Sergeant used to say.  Looking around at all the gorgeous visuals they built into the game instead of having to focus on not running into a corner!

 

Or how about "don't waste my time with a silly crouch and wave hands animation" to collect every single resource?  Once?  Ok. To show that you (and we) get it.  In RL one would have to stop and pick the flowers each time.  But in the game it's just a total buzzkill!  Should be "right-click = obtain" and move along smartly.

 

I could go on (and on.)  But you get the idea.

 

======================================

 

@mutantspicy;  Google is your friend! 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I agree that the PC controls are dire. I can't play the game for more than half an hour at at time before I get frustrated with the control scheme and just give up in annoyance because it makes the game feel like a chore, not fun. It's utterly ruining what would otherwise be a very good game.

[eZet]

I can't help but feel that most people that are saying kb/m controls are fine, are playing a ranged class. There is a massive difference between ranged and melee classes for kb/m users. I initially used a controller, playing a mage. About 20 hours in I decided to try kb/m, and found it better for my play style. However, playing a melee character with kb/m was absolutely horrible, and the controller provided a much better experience. Anyone saying 'this is better' and dismissing other's opinions need to consider which class they are playing, cause it makes a huge difference.

[Nukekitten]

True. I don't see the relevance. Can you give me a concrete example of when controlling more than one character would make an MMO-style interface less useful?

 

Well, MMOs. If we imagine making two teams: In one team you give one player the ability to switch characters. For the other side you have a team of human players, as normal. The team of human players is going to utterly decimate the single player.

 

That is not what we'd expect if the single player was able to express their will through a clean abstraction. Something that we find in strategy games where there is a cleaner abstraction for expressing group actions and where losing gives your resources to others on your team is that players will avoid killing a relatively weak player on the other team (where doing so doesn't give them an immediate advantage they can use to win quickly) because they don't want the stronger players to get their resources and use them to better effect. Something that I very much doubt would be the case if killing (or reducing in hitpoints or whatever) a weaker player in an MMO somehow gave the stronger player the ability to switch into control of the character.

 

This would not be the case if the single player, in our MMO example, was commanding in a more traditional small unit tactics interface with the ability to cue orders, didn't incur context costs when they switched between characters (i.e. their point of view on a situation was static with respect to who they had selected) and they were able to manipulate that view of the situation rapidly to respond to events and maintain situational awareness. The single player would simply be operating at a higher level of abstraction more suited to command of a group.

 

MMO interfaces are good at watching things like cool-downs. I find it very hard to think of anything else they're good for.

[Skeevley]

Wow, and here I thought this would be a reasonably upbeat thread about DAI being better than many of us thought, if the control issues is overcome...

 

The big problem with the controls isn't that it's "different", but that it can't be configured properly. It's things like mouse-buttons being hard-coded (I have a total of 11 mouse buttons, which work fine in most other games but since I wanted them to work in DAI I had to spend all kinds of time configuring a special set for DAI in which as many of the buttons as possible just act as keys, which can then be assigned in the DAI menus. But I STILL can't reassign that darn mouse click that keeps messing me up). Our bodies automatically develop muscle memory, so the ability to reassign controls easily, yes even the mouse buttons, is a critical part of PC gaming. How many of us could ever get used to a car that steered left when you turned the wheel to the right, for example? I've never felt controls quite this "off", and obviously from the many complaints I'm far from alone. It's great that some of you like them the way the are, that's fantastic for you, but those of us who don't like them need to be able to customize them properly. That's all. And it's frustrating as heck that the devs didn't bother to include that basic feature.

 

It's not that there is one right way to do it, it's that the WRONG way to do it is to limit it, like in DAI. I think there is a lot of frustration also because (inevitable comparison do DAO) it really did all work perfectly and fluidly in DAO, and all Bioware had to do was keep the control structure basically the same (or, at least, make it an option). If you go back and play DAO for a few hours, then come back to DAI, you'll see what I mean. It really is a constant and frustrating struggle for many of us just to play the game. The controls exacerbate the camera (also not as good as DAO) issues, and combine into something that many of us simply wouldn't ever grow to like.

 

But really, I do think that many of us struggling with the entire game just because of the controls, UI, and Camera are going to be a LOT happier with DAI when Bioware releases patches to take care of these issues. I for one will definitely go back and change my online reviews at Amazon and Metacritic once these issues are fixed.

[pdusen]

I can't help but feel that most people that are saying kb/m controls are fine, are playing a ranged class.

 

Not me. 2h warrior all the way.

[StingingVelvet]

That's simply untrue. Do I expect a game for the PC to have controls designed, at least minimally, with actual PC users in mind? Yes. But outside of Skyrim, which had many UI and control issues (which could luckily be fixed by mods), I've never had to "fight" with a game to get it to work. It's as if a maker of a racing SIM decided that the clutch should be the gas, the brake should be "look behind", the gas pedal should should be the brake, the steering should be reversed... and then gave you no way to change it. (Oh, and provided two different fields of view, both of which frequently failed to provide a view of the track that was actually useful.)

 

The controls, camera, and UI aren't "bad" by PC standards, they are downright disgraceful.

 

Fallout 3 is an example of a UI that was clearly designed for controllers, but in which the dev did the work necessary to make them work on a PC at least reasonably well. Perfect? No way, but acceptable? Yes. (Why didn't they put that amount of work into Skyrim too?)

 

It's a completely different game for me now; playable, usable, enjoyable. Still flawed in some fundamental ways, but leaps and bounds better than the nearly-unplayable release-day disaster. Hopefully an upcoming patch will let me remap my mouse buttons so that I'm not frequently launching accidental attacks when I just want to click on something...

 

Regardless, it's nice to know that the game lurking underneath the interface may not be as bad as it once seemed; a considerable portion of that reaction is probably due to the controls and UI alone...

 

It controls like any other 3rd person action game I've played on PC for 20 years now. It doesn't control like Origins at all, but the core reason is the game has changed, rather than the controls.

[AlanC9]

I can't help but feel that most people that are saying kb/m controls are fine, are playing a ranged class. There is a massive difference between ranged and melee classes for kb/m users. I initially used a controller, playing a mage. About 20 hours in I decided to try kb/m, and found it better for my play style. However, playing a melee character with kb/m was absolutely horrible, and the controller provided a much better experience. Anyone saying 'this is better' and dismissing other's opinions need to consider which class they are playing, cause it makes a huge difference.

Is melee in DAI with kb/m any harder than it is in Skyrim? And how does a controller improve it?

[Skeevley]

It controls like any other 3rd person action game I've played on PC for 20 years now. It doesn't control like Origins at all, but the core reason is the game has changed, rather than the controls.

 

Ah, at that might be part of the crux of the problem, for those of us who expect RPGs to play like RPGs and not like action games... Although I have to say, I've never felt like I was fighting for control of Unreal, or Unreal Tournament, or Quake, or Doom, or FO3, or FNV, or even The Witcher 2 (one of my least favorite in terms of fighting style), or any other action game, first person shooter, or action RPG (although DA2's camera sure left a lot to be desired...) So far the only two games to be extremely frustrating in terms of controls for me have been Skyrim, and DAI.

 

P.S. Nice avatar...