19 réponses à ce sujet

[ent1]

In DA:O tanking with a 2H weapon worked every bit as well as sword and shield, and usually better because the threat was better and things died faster. In DA2, the 2H tank was often preferrable as well, with incredible AOE threat, adequate mitigation, and great synergy with mages.

 

It's not working for me in Inquisition. Taking a little more damage is not acceptable on Nightmare, and it ends up being more than a little. Going deep into Vanguard helps a bit, if you spam guard generating abilities, but even then Iron Bull gets chewed up compared to the other two. There's no powerful AOE or synergy to make up for it. Battlemaster gives a lot of utility, but I can't afford the points for that.

 

I know guard on hit would probably make it viable, but if I'm going to level a warrior inquisitor without using a two-warrior group, I'm going to need to do without that for many levels, so that doesn't solve the problem.

 

Anyone got a build they've gotten to work on Nightmare?

[Sevitan7]

Yes, but as combat performance is very, very gear dependent, you won't really be able to do it until you get Tier 3 armor.

 

As, 2H was probably the single worst archetype in Origins. While it was fun, it was definitely not as good as S+S. Though it's a moot point since Dual Wielder warriors were a far better choice than either since they could do everything.

[knownastherat]

To make it work smoothly the warrior needs to be controlled manually and/or have appropriate team support. As you noted .. cant afford the points .. especially early. On top of taunt(s), Block and Slash, some passives, some damage/detonator and Battlemaster is nice to look at. As off-tank, probably great. 

 

I tanked 3/4 of game, except trebuchet and two dragons with Iron Bull not managing him properly nor knowing and using his abilities well. 2 mages  for Barriers. On higher levels and with t3 gear it gets whole lot easier but the game gets easier in general. It does not solve your problem. Either take tank and be off or suck it up with mix of damage, control and mobility. Its not Shield Wall thing.

[ent1]

Yes, but as combat performance is very, very gear dependent, you won't really be able to do it until you get Tier 3 armor.

 

As, 2H was probably the single worst archetype in Origins. While it was fun, it was definitely not as good as S+S. Though it's a moot point since Dual Wielder warriors were a far better choice than either since they could do everything.

 

That wasn't my experience. Indomitable+Stunning blows was a tank's dream.

 

[knownastherat]

 There were lots of physical checks in the game and 2H was designed to pass them. Sure, untouchable elven DW dex warrior ~ Drizzt :) was probably more powerful, but with 2H around there was lots of shattering, sundering and knocks. 

[MullyMagic]

I used to hate his survivability but loved his dialogue so I kept respeccing him until I was happy, I refused to switch him out lol.

 

I have Iron Bull with a 2h weapon and armour granting guard per hit.  He uses Bull rush and Challenge as preferred with Block and slash, Ring of pain and Devour as enabled.  He now keeps up with Blackwall quite a bit more then he used to.  He is only lvl 11 but it seems a good foundation.

[Kortok]

Honestly I dropped 2H on nightmare.  Too many melee mobs aoe and my 2H was just too squishy.  I now run my dwarf as an SnS Templar with Blackwall.  Haven't even thought about going back.

[szemyq]

Just tanked frostback with lvl 12 2 hand blackwall on nightmare ff. t2 crafted armor with t2 mats and crafted t2 grestsword. 4 in vanguard, 4 in two-handed weapon and 7 in champion. Basically just using bulls charge, war cry and autos. With a few block and slashes and a walking fortress or two. Bulls charge and war cry generate massive amounts of guard against the multi hit boxes of the dragon. The rest comes from skill upgrades and passives. He did great against normal mob packs in my party but that he stood so well against a dragon surprised me a little. Just played in tac cam btw, if you control him it should be even easier.

[Adhin]

I got the bull 2H tanking just fine as the only tank in my party on NM. It's basically the same build I had for my main character (which I put on hold till a patch fixes some stuff). You really just need the SnB passives. They ultimately make far more of a difference in not-dying then anything else. 'Shields' 30% is defense which... only results after armor does its thing. Nice thing about the SnB passives are they happen before armor, making that 20% from the front extremely powerful - or the ranged.

 

Actually this makes the 50% resist from Ice Armor on mages pretty damn amazing too since mages can get armor of 200+ too. Anyway, 3 passives from SnB, good armor, %dmg taken turned into 10s regen is a solid bonus on top of getting guard. I had Iron Bull being a rather reliable tank by lvl 10-ish? Was... passable prior to that, the SnB passives really helped on that front. Block and Slash + Combat Roll also can take a 2H'er a pretty damn long way on top of that.

 

I originally had intended to focus on Vanguard stuff first when game was released. But after playing (and restarting my 2H main tank, which ill restart again later after patchs) and some tests Vanguards... less useful. SnB passives far, far surpass Vanguard fror tanking. Add Reaver devour into the mix or Champion and... yeah you can easily 2H tank on NM with some thought into it. Charging Bull, as has been mentioned, is also pretty damn good and I intend to get it early on. Just works better as a player doing it, not AI... even if AI will use it I'd rather em use other stuff.

[knownastherat]

That is the thing. I keep reading about 2H and S&B passives which sounds awesome, but at level 10 as the only warrior in party there is no way to have those passives. 

 

Say: Block and Slash, War Cry, Challenge, Trust the Steel, Cutting Words and 4 points (no upgrades) are gone. To have the said passives the rest of the points would need to be invested in S&B but where is damage? And if damage is of no priority and only endurance is, I take S&B and be done with it.

 

 

[Jackal19851111]

I'm tanking quite well with just the block/slash ability in DA:I, only problem I have are the blasted archers and mages who I can't parry (or block because I have no shield), I just make them priority targets for the rest of my party while I tank the melee mobs. You just need to avoid being surrounded, so combat roll is imperative.

[TeamLexana]

I've found melee combat to be pretty terrible overall in DAI. I wouldn't even bring a tank if I wasn't paranoid of missing a bash door that only a warrior can open, lol.

 

It's a shame for tanking 2handers, they were the best in Origins due to indomitable, felt slightly weaker in DA2 but still fun, but now they are really really crappy in DAI.

[Kage]

S&S is super good in DAI, and actually very fun to play with. In my first run I am playing with a firemage, a support mage, a S&S and a poison archer, and the only character that is not fun for me is the support mage. (So yeah, AI, take care of that and please do not enerve me too much with your barrier decisions)

 

In my second run I will run a 2H templar inquisitor, and we will see if a S&S is always with me to tank, or I can take care of that mid/lategame. The problem I am seeing is that S&S is that super good. Shields give a 30% defense which is kind of crazy, besides the armor they bring and stats. Shields are OP.

And as it has been said, S&S passives are quite broken, since they reduce damage before armor.

 

As a 2H, I find it quite difficult to tank without having massive CC in your party.

 

If you want to make it work, I would suggest Wall of Fire. It is a ok-damage spell, with ABSURD amount of CC. Melée enemies will try to cross it over and over, only to renew their DoT + panic. The range is absurd in DAI for spells, so you will be able to target those 2 archers of the back. And after the CC they will aggro the mage, which can go back, and then the archers will have to go forward, and then cross paths with your 2H tank.

 

I would also suggest a frost mage. Ice Mine must be rewarding for a 2H. CC of many enemies that are fighting you, freeze them with 0 armor just beside you. Shatter! And for that playthrough, I think I will have an use for Wall of Ice. Blocking the vision of archers and mages seems good. Whatever is needed to reduce damage incoming to my 2H "tank".

 

I would also consider a Rift Mage to weaken enemies. But oh well, you cannot have it all. I will go with Vivienne for roleplaying reasons.

[Adhin]

@TeamLexana: I can not disagree more. But if you don't like em, you don't like em.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

2H tank is not feasable pre-skyhold imo.

But after skyhold, it not only becomes possible - in some fights, and with CC to back you up, it becomes very strong.

 

This in Nightmare mode in mind.

[ent1]

Just tanked frostback with lvl 12 2 hand blackwall on nightmare ff. t2 crafted armor with t2 mats and crafted t2 grestsword. 4 in vanguard, 4 in two-handed weapon and 7 in champion. Basically just using bulls charge, war cry and autos. With a few block and slashes and a walking fortress or two. Bulls charge and war cry generate massive amounts of guard against the multi hit boxes of the dragon. The rest comes from skill upgrades and passives. He did great against normal mob packs in my party but that he stood so well against a dragon surprised me a little. Just played in tac cam btw, if you control him it should be even easier.

 

I can see it working with Champion, but that's still a bit later in the game, and it's not the playstyle I was looking for. It's sad you can't live on the edge in this game, like you could, say, as a Reaver in DA2, take a big hit from a stalker or rage demon, then turn around and one shot it. Losing health is just not allowed in DA:I.

[Wolfen09]

if you're going to tank with a two hander, good luck, pre mastercraft and specialization it sucks....  respec blackwall into a 2 hander or make your pc a champion, because thats the only way its remotely doable on nightmare in my experience

[duskl1ght]

2H tank is not feasable pre-skyhold imo.

But after skyhold, it not only becomes possible - in some fights, and with CC to back you up, it becomes very strong.

 

This in Nightmare mode in mind.

Hi, what happens after skyhold that makes it possible? Are you the only melee in your party?

[knownastherat]

Inspired by this thread and my own advice in this thread based on experience with Iron Bull I started another play through as dwarven 2H. I am pre-skyhold now, inside Champions of the Just quest at level 6. Have Solas and Vivienne for double Barriers and Winter Grasp and Varric for now. Picked up X1 controller and pause only for potions. So far its feasible :) Dwarves have 25% innate magic resist and I wonder if gameplay remains feasible if I will be able to get it high enough through gear to be able to switch FF on.

 

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edit: just finished In Your Heart Shall Burn. First try no reloads paused for potions level 8. Picked only 4 abilities, War Cry, Challenge, Charging Bull and Mighty Blow. Vivienne now with Ice Mine, both mages in Winter, Solas more Spirit. Varric the usual. T2 axe but in in skilled hands I can see this working. Most enemies were frozen all the time and those who were not were my job. The rotation is apparent, guard generation - damage/control - guard generation and AoE galore. 

 

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edit2: trying to get Champion so went to the Exalted Plains. Being level 9, trying to avoid what looks too dangerous but if it comes lets fight. Needed to pass area but rift was close. Alright, lets go. Rage Demon, Despair Demon, and 2 Wraiths. Bloody teleporing! No disruption, I am warrior, second wave 2 Despair Demons and Revenant. Whoopsadaisy so I die. Go again, this time no room for failure with Bees, rift closed. I reloaded to check their level, because they were hard. Level 12. Dorian, Vivienne and Solas, three not so wise bots. And I suck. 

 

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edit3: still around the Plains but do not like it here too much. There were 2 archers. Fade Cloak on hit .. gee

 

http://imageshack.co...2492/OlN4cU.png

 

So all mages are good. No archer got to them nor the tank. Vivienne casts Ice Mine no problems as seen in screen, Solas  getting Barrier up just to be sure I guess, and they keep some distance given the terrain.