44 réponses à ce sujet

[tbxvividos]

This build doesn't make any sense...

Stealth is pointless in this build because you don't have a hard hitting attack to benefit from the 50% bonus, AND you get free stealth from flank attack...

Flask of fire is pointless because you don't have a single spammable ability...

Poison blades is meh...

Honestly the best thing you could do to this build would be swap stealth for twin fangs and poison blades for toxic mist.

That way you can twin fangs out of stealth (the hit detection is fine as long as your target isn't running directly away from you...) And spam toxic mist during flask of fire.

That would make your alchemist 1000000x better.

Equip a poison potion for lulz

[-PenguinFetish-]

This build doesn't make any sense...

Stealth is pointless in this build because you don't have a hard hitting attack to benefit from the 50% bonus, AND you get free stealth from flank attack...

Flask of fire is pointless because you don't have a single spammable ability...

Poison blades is meh...

Honestly the best thing you could do to this build would be swap stealth for twin fangs and poison blades for toxic mist.

That way you can twin fangs out of stealth (the hit detection is fine as long as your target isn't running directly away from you...) And spam toxic mist during flask of fire.

That would make your alchemist 1000000x better.

Equip a poison potion for lulz

Can i have a link to your perilous gameplay with a stealthless alchemist please? Id love to see how quickly you die to the very first group of enemies.

[PvtNiss]

The problem that while Viper offers constant stealth and ok damage (which is dot, and spread over targets), and Frost Flask Freeze and DR, your build is prone... to everything.. ranged, magic, melee.. you will be toast, before you finish your 4th twin fangs

 

And i agree with posters above. Alch is support class.

My build makes you invisible 99% of the time. You're prone to all things assassins, reavers, katari, viper alch and some shotgun hunters are prone to. Nothing special just being a squishy melee.

The other builds are prone to not dealing any damage, I definitely wouldn't call it "ok" damage. And your utility/support is still being overshadowed by what other classes can bring. They also severely outperform your dps at the same time without having to choose. Flask of Frost has a large cooldown and a really tiny radius and even with its super short 85% DR you will die on perilous. Besides that you've got basic attacks and a lame low damage poison and a mediocre damage skill at best to enter stealth.

Practise to use twin fangs properly learn the timing and the distance and flank with it using the 100% threat reduction on flank attacks passive to kill targets. If you die before your 4th twin fangs it's probably because you're not getting out of the way of some AoE attack, or attacking the boss before someone else does, or your dagger is just poor and you need to wait until you have bigger daggers. Just because you pop flask of fire and you can have lots of damaging fun for a short period of time doesn't mean you should be closing your eyes and doing nothing but pressing stealth and twin fang buttons. If you pop it and **** happens, **** happens too bad you miss out on DPSing what it is you want to dps start killing other stuff. But if it does work you will be bursting more damage into a boss than an assassin could. And just like some other classes need good gear this is one of the few that's worthless without it. Stealth means crits and 50% damage - this is an amplification of your gear to cause kills, kills cause a reset on stealth which loops it back around. If you don't have something to cause the kill you won't loop. Daggers go up to 450 DPS and with 2 rings and a necklace giving you +5% attack and +50% critical damage the changes in gear are massive. Other classes can't do this they have no auto crit and you need to make the best of it when you do.

 

This viper build is far more squishy because you basically get nothing special to kill targets properly to trigger I Was Never Here. You will constantly be out of stealth unless it cools down normally, you use flank attack or you get a last hit in somewhere using a basic attack or small damage poison DoT. My build can stay in stealth constantly if you do it right because you actually have something to kill some big enemies with. Without you will constantly be preying on enemy archers and having nothing once those are dead. Bringing flask of frost on a huge cooldown is not going to save you or make you less prone to dying. Besides that I disagree with the OP saying flank attack is reliable it often lags out, misses or bugs and does the 2nd strike into the same direction not to mention it just not even giving any stealth at times.

 

Alchemist is just really lacking because the utility of the tempest skill tree is too weak. Elemental mines are good on paper but they're spread out and you can't get all the status effects and damage/dot's going on every target or just one. They need a bigger effect and detonation radius. The flask's are used for either a small tanky aoe freeze for CC that other classes can do more efficient. Or being able to spam something cool, but they didn't give alchemists anything cool to spam. So you spam the best you have with it or the entire alchemist part of the alchemist has little use compared to the other classes.

 

If the objective is to get the most use out of the character and be valuable to your team I don't see any other way than filling the role of a bursty DPS and cleaning up from behind like an assassin. Other classes do the other roles just way too good to make the alch worth the time.

[Drogonion]

Just started looking at the Alchemist, and this analysis seems spot on.  Esp the part about shadow strikes being bugged - a bummer for the assassin also.  The build you suggest seems like a lot of fun.

 

Another problem I have with both of these classes - Alch and Assass - is that stealth often does not break aggro.  Not sure what the rules governing when you can hide in plain sight are, but it seems to me stealth should achieve this every time - and doesn't.

[PvtNiss]

That's a bug and should be getting a fix. Hopefully sooner rather then later.

[tbxvividos]

Can i have a link to your perilous gameplay with a stealthless alchemist please? Id love to see how quickly you die to the very first group of enemies.

It's not stealthless, flank attack stealths AND has a shorter cooldown...
(Stealth and gap closing is the ENTIRE point of flank attack..)

As I said initially, your build has exactly -NOTHING- that benefits from stealth. Unless you plan on just sitting there in stealth not attacking anything, which has me questioning why you're playing the game in the first place.

And what are you doing during flask of fire? Spamming flank attack? Spamming poison daggers and not attacking? What's the point?

The suggestions I gave already been detailed and explained in the other alchemist perilous thread. This isn't new stuff, it's already been publicly posted.

I'm sorry your build has NO synergy and you are choosing to refuse to listen to more experienced suggestions on how to improve it.

Personal problems.

(Also, why would I die to the first group of enemies on ANY difficulty? Alchemists don't pull, and attacks from behind generate no threat...if you're being attacked, you're doing it wrong)

[-PenguinFetish-]

It's not stealthless, flank attack stealths AND has a shorter cooldown...
(Stealth and gap closing is the ENTIRE point of flank attack..)

As I said initially, your build has exactly -NOTHING- that benefits from stealth. Unless you plan on just sitting there in stealth not attacking anything, which has me questioning why you're playing the game in the first place.

And what are you doing during flask of fire? Spamming flank attack? Spamming poison daggers and not attacking? What's the point?

The suggestions I gave already been detailed and explained in the other alchemist perilous thread. This isn't new stuff, it's already been publicly posted.

I'm sorry your build has NO synergy and you are choosing to refuse to listen to more experienced suggestions on how to improve it.

Personal problems.

(Also, why would I die to the first group of enemies on ANY difficulty? Alchemists don't pull, and attacks from behind generate no threat...if you're being attacked, you're doing it wrong)

 

 

I didnt ask for your (wrong and uneducated) opinion, I asked for your perilous gameplay, because ive completed perilous with this exact build. Blackstork has promoted alchemist 5 times and he agrees with my build being optimal. How many promotions do you have? Please provide proof that you've even used it. 

 

*EDIT* Just read some other threads, looks like you are just a troll. Thanks for the bump I guess.

Modifié par -PenguinFetish-, 05 décembre 2014 - 05:18 .

[Blackstork]

Do not reply to him, he is definitely troll . Viper is only viable build for perilous hands down. Others who says it is bad have no clue about alch playing. Frostie also good but while it burst damage with tf or sb, she is very vulnerable in fire flask stage. Frostie is better as support for combos but needs babysitting. And deals same or even less damage if not perfectly babysitted

[Saboteur-6]

So no toxic cloud spam? Do the DoT's not stack or something? I'm working on promoting her so I can respec out of Fire Flask / Christmas Lights because the holidays are almost over. I really want an AT that uses Poison damage is "The Viper" build the best way to go about it? And is Frost Flask a total bill or what?

[Akuma47]

I am running perilous with stealth, toxic cloud, fire flask, and mines. Tactic is run in stealth into group, let some1 else take agro, use toxic cloud, run behind group, use fire flask and spam mines. Works ok, if done right you dont take agro. The problem is that toxic cloud even with the ring and all upgrades does pitifull damage. My auttoatack is around 250-300 and toxic cloud ticks around 80-100. Since you dont see damage done you cant really compare if the aoe damage is good enough or not.  And if there are many of them, mines do a great work on such occasions. Not sure what I would take instead of toxic cloud since if I wanted Twin fangs I would go assassin. The good thing is, I dont need to really engage the enemy. Bad thing is my fun is on Fire flask cooldown.

 

Still, did you try static cage + fire flask&mine combo? It is freaking hilarious and deadly too.

 

I really wish we would get more info after the match, like damage done, damage taken, boss damage done etc.

[gay_wardens]

I don't really see the issue with Stealth + Mines. Get behind the enemy mob and you should have a perfect opportunity as long as you aim them in the right direction. Pretty much guaranteed a kill at that point, so you get your stealth back.

 

I think next build I'm definitely going to try Stealth + Shadow Strike + Poison Weapons + Toxic Mist. Shouldn't need fire flask when the poison passives are going to make everything explode and seriously take damage.

 

The Assassin can do the same thing, but she's better suited to her Assassination tree. Not sure why you would use Spinning Blades on her tree though.

 

Has anyone tried Frost Flask + Parry? Was fooling around with Parry and it's actually not bad if you get the rhythms down of when everything attacks you in melee... problem is the low damage, but it might actually be worth it with Frost Flask.

[mission555]

Ewww Poison Blades.

[Miclotov]

I am confused. From which end of the flask do I drink again?

 

Interesting perspective.

[Kuosi]

Might try this if I find the willpower to play my minethrower to 20 for promote...

[themageguy]

I've found frost to be very useful, especially against arcane horrors. Whilst it's frozen, it's so vulnerable

So I'm just about to promote her (currently rocking flask of frost, flask of fire, elemental grenades and stealth- not optimum for many, but useful on a team in threatening at least).

Was going to try the viper, however I really enjoy flask of frost.....back to the drawing board

[Jicama]

I'm finding that if I auto-attack once out of Stealth before using Shadow Strike, it fixes I Was Never Here and I still get the damage bonus for attacking from Stealth.

[haxaw]

I'm finding that if I auto-attack once out of Stealth before using Shadow Strike, it fixes I Was Never There and I still get the damage bonus for attacking from Stealth.

 

Yeah, it seems to be using skills (Shadow Strike, Twin Fangs, Deathblow, to name a few) directly out of stealth that causes the problem. But when 2 arrows can knock you flat, every unnecessary attack counts.

[phoenix fang55]

Has anyone tried a build like this? http://da-skills.net...010,0A100,111,1

 

Basic strat, stealth, get into a group, drop knockout bomb followed by toxic cloud and then flank attack to get stealth back.

[ProphetEars]

Has anyone tried a build like this? http://da-skills.net...010,0A100,111,1

 

Basic strat, stealth, get into a group, drop knockout bomb followed by toxic cloud and then flank attack to get stealth back.

 

Cool idea! I love the alchemist and have promoted her a few times. My current build is Stealth, Twin Fangs, Frost Flask, and Poision Weapons.

I have 2 "Agony" daggers that will trigger chain lightning. If I have poision weapons on it will also spread with the chain lightning. Super awesome.

Otherwise I'm a "team combo" player who freezes targets for warriors or archers to detonate, or can detonate it myself with twin fangs. I have the twin fangs ring for awesome damage. If you position yourself well you shouldn't draw very much aggro, and between poision weapons and flanking/critical damage bonuses most things die real quick to stabby-stabby.

My last few builds all had knockout bomb because I love it so much. Wicked range and perfect for shutting down the Templar Boss. Once I promote my current Alchemist I'll give your build a go and let ya know how it goes!

 

[GogglesPunk]

I want to see how this idea goes, i've been thinking of doing something similar. Let us poor alchy players know how it goes!