116 réponses à ce sujet

[CrimsonArgie]

Mass Effect is not Dragon Age. I don't think it's good to copy DA:I systems into Mass Effect, because they are just different games. Having to buy weapons for every single companion is ridiculous. That system works in DA because weapons were hand made/forged, only a few vendors mass produced items. In ME you buy directly from manufacturer's representatives, you are suposed to mass buy every weapon, just like real armies do (I get it, the Normandy's crew is not an army by itself, but it ME1 and ME3 you are a part of the Alliance, and in ME2 you work with Cerberus). I also don't like the pick-up system for a game like ME. Again, it takes place in a hyper-connected galaxy where most manufacturer are able to ship and sell items to almost every planet, with a Citadel that probably has shops that sell every single weapon. It's not logical for you to say "hey I cannot get certain weapon until I find it lying on the floor/in the dead body of an enemy". That could be implemented with some ilegal/rare/decomissioned weapons, but not with every one.

 

Upgrading gear would be nice though. You would be able to do it from official, manufacturer-produced mods, or by finding rare schematics and upgrading the weapons by yourself. Either one should have it's pros and cons (official ones being more stable and efficient, while player-produced ones would be more powerful but with some form of drawback)

 

The same should apply to armor, but I liked ME2/3 system, having some armors that cannot be customized and some that do. They should really improve the companion's armor though, allowing us to customize them as well (and not by cosmetic DLCs, but actual working upgrades)

[Nitrocuban]

A combination of looting stuff during missions and buying it at Hub-world stores across the game universe just like ME3 did it is perfect.

The only thing I missed in ME3 was ME1's armors and armor modding.

ME3MP's gear as equippable (and ingame visible) perks for armor suites would be awesome.

 

And I think special ammo would be better implemented as weapon mods instead of ammo power.

Some kits' power sets could still have a general option like "derp % more damage when special ammo is used or 50% increased chance of applying special ammo effect" etc.

[StealthGamer92]

Mass Effect is not Dragon Age. I don't think it's good to copy DA:I systems into Mass Effect, because they are just different games. Having to buy weapons for every single companion is ridiculous. That system works in DA because weapons were hand made/forged, only a few vendors mass produced items. In ME you buy directly from manufacturer's representatives, you are suposed to mass buy every weapon, just like real armies do (I get it, the Normandy's crew is not an army by itself, but it ME1 and ME3 you are a part of the Alliance, and in ME2 you work with Cerberus). I also don't like the pick-up system for a game like ME. Again, it takes place in a hyper-connected galaxy where most manufacturer are able to ship and sell items to almost every planet, with a Citadel that probably has shops that sell every single weapon. It's not logical for you to say "hey I cannot get certain weapon until I find it lying on the floor/in the dead body of an enemy". That could be implemented with some ilegal/rare/decomissioned weapons, but not with every one.

 

Upgrading gear would be nice though. You would be able to do it from official, manufacturer-produced mods, or by finding rare schematics and upgrading the weapons by yourself. Either one should have it's pros and cons (official ones being more stable and efficient, while player-produced ones would be more powerful but with some form of drawback)

 

The same should apply to armor, but I liked ME2/3 system, having some armors that cannot be customized and some that do. They should really improve the companion's armor though, allowing us to customize them as well (and not by cosmetic DLCs, but actual working upgrades)

 

 

I see your point about bulk oredering and never really thought about it that way. That said the bulk order should feel like it by have a higher price, not too high but high enough it feels like I'm buying more than one or two guns.

 

I also really like this official and un-official upgrade idea.

[Salarian Jesus]

I'd be happy with a combination of ME1's acquisition system and ME3's weapon variety.

[MrFob]

I'd go with the ME3 system with the one modification: that you can find/buy weapon upgrades as well.
The advantages of ME3 were:
- Huge variety of weapons that all look and feel different (as opposed to ME1 where all where the same and ME2 where there weren't that many)
- As Vazgen said, it made the most sense, lore-wise.
- It was a rewarding system to find these weapons from time to time. Way better IMO then just having random equipment placed in your inventory during a fight like in ME1.
- Another positive aspect was that you didn't have enough funds to buy everything in the shops. You had to choose what you wanted. I think that's better than just having everything at the end (like in ME2)

Now, the only thing I wasn't too happy with in EM3 was that you could only upgrade your equipment level (I to X) at the Normandy terminal (excluding some rare exceptions). If One could find upgrades in the world, then we could also have a little more loot (maybe even some randomized loot from enemies and certain containers). Also, let us upgrade all the way to level X again without NG+. That restriction was silly.

[StealthGamer92]

I'd go with the ME3 system with the one modification: that you can find/buy weapon upgrades as well.
The advantages of ME3 were:
- Huge variety of weapons that all look and feel different (as opposed to ME1 where all where the same and ME2 where there weren't that many)
- As Vazgen said, it made the most sense, lore-wise.
- It was a rewarding system to find these weapons from time to time. Way better IMO then just having random equipment placed in your inventory during a fight like in ME1.
- Another positive aspect was that you didn't have enough funds to buy everything in the shops. You had to choose what you wanted. I think that's better than just having everything at the end (like in ME2)

As I said before this thread is not about the variety but about how we aquire the weapons and equipment. I am sure there will be as much, if not more, variety in the next ME as ther is in ME3.

 

 

Now, the only thing I wasn't too happy with in EM3 was that you could only upgrade your equipment level (I to X) at the Normandy terminal (excluding some rare exceptions). If One could find upgrades in the world, then we could also have a little more loot (maybe even some randomized loot from enemies and certain containers). Also, let us upgrade all the way to level X again without NG+. That restriction was silly.

Would you mind explaining this a little more, please?

[MrFob]

Would you mind explaining this a little more, please?

Well, I think the times an places where to get certain weapons should be fixed like in ME3. That way, you can also have some weapons which are more powerful than others (and which you get later).
However, upgrades could be introduced (semi)randomly and also during fights, so that sometimes yu find loot. I would keep the loot chance relatively low, so you won't get something in every fight but it's going to be a nice surprise if you get something. Say you give enemies a X% chance to have loot. Loot could be:
- Upgrades for weapons/armor/mods you already own (make an avenger III and Avenger IV)
- Credits
- Medigel
- Heavy wewapons ammo (if those were back)
- Ship fuel (from mechanic/synthetic enemies)

Just not weapons ro armor parts themselves, these would be more carefully placed in the world (that is not to say, you can't get these from enemies at all, just that it would be per-determined which enemy you get them from, not random like the loot above).

Alternatively, you can also buy some things in shops but even with looting, you will never have enough credits to buy everything (see my last post).

[StealthGamer92]

Just not weapons ro armor parts themselves, these would be more carefully placed in the world (that is not to say, you can't get these from enemies at all, just that it would be per-determined which enemy you get them from, not random like the loot above).

Why "in the world" though? Take ME3 for example. We first see the Cerberus burst fire smg on mars but you are not able to get it(in the world) until you find a dead Cerberus operative who had it on the Citadel halfway through the game. That gun is even shown off multiple times in cutscenes before you get it. I think there is no way to justify this huge piece of illogical information. If you say we scan the gun to get it's blueprint's then you've done killed alot of troops carrying this gun  even if a few were damaged collectively you should get the blueprint pieced together over multiple scaned guns. Then there is the fact that 40 of 40 guns would not be likely to all be destroyed or damaged in the same way. The ME3 system just gives you everything but a few guns, and what it has in terms of armor was an absolute joke. I can play through all of ME2 and 3 with any random armor suite or piece by piece setup and not know what the differance is other than it's look. How is that fun, and more importantly how does it not break immersion?

[MrFob]

While I would agree that the "scanning a gun for blueprints" explanation doesn't entirely fit, logically, I think it still fits the best, just requires some imagination (say, normal guns have a sort of DRM, so you can't just copy them and you need to find one that is unprotected or whatever).
I was more thinking in terms of gameplay and there, I think carefully supplying the player with new stuff as a reward is more satisfying than randomly throwing stuff at them. All you need to do is carefully design your world with this mechanic in mind.

Also, as for the armors, I didn't mind that the armors didn't have that much impact. At least that way, I didn't have to dress my Shepard in some silly looking armor just o get the stats. With such a cinematic game as ME, the appearance of the characters does matter so if we have a bit more freedom in choosing it, I am all for it.
Just by the way, I hope we get to equip stuff on our squad mates again in the next ME.

[goishen]

Mass Effect is not Dragon Age. I don't think it's good to copy DA:I systems into Mass Effect, because they are just different games. Having to buy weapons for every single companion is ridiculous. That system works in DA because weapons were hand made/forged, only a few vendors mass produced items. In ME you buy directly from manufacturer's representatives, you are suposed to mass buy every weapon, just like real armies do (I get it, the Normandy's crew is not an army by itself, but it ME1 and ME3 you are a part of the Alliance, and in ME2 you work with Cerberus). I also don't like the pick-up system for a game like ME. Again, it takes place in a hyper-connected galaxy where most manufacturer are able to ship and sell items to almost every planet, with a Citadel that probably has shops that sell every single weapon. It's not logical for you to say "hey I cannot get certain weapon until I find it lying on the floor/in the dead body of an enemy". That could be implemented with some ilegal/rare/decomissioned weapons, but not with every one.

 

Upgrading gear would be nice though. You would be able to do it from official, manufacturer-produced mods, or by finding rare schematics and upgrading the weapons by yourself. Either one should have it's pros and cons (official ones being more stable and efficient, while player-produced ones would be more powerful but with some form of drawback)

 

The same should apply to armor, but I liked ME2/3 system, having some armors that cannot be customized and some that do. They should really improve the companion's armor though, allowing us to customize them as well (and not by cosmetic DLCs, but actual working upgrades)

 

Right.  But you just contradicted yourself.  

 

"I'm not able to have every weapon mod available, yet, I'm supposed to have every weapon known to man."  Well, I mean, if you can have one, why not the other?

 

To me, it's like Garrus said.   "I thought I'd seen the most powerful weapons in the galaxy.  That was until I went to the Terminus systems."  (paraphrasing, but not by much)  The Terminus systems are like the Wild West.  Guns blazing and crazy mods/weapons there.  Some safe, some crazy.  Luckily, Shepard knew the difference and wasn't going to pick up any of the cray cray weapons/mods.  Personally, I'm fine with picking up weapons from the floor.  It adds more realism and a ton more of "these corporations don't know what they're doing".

 

What I'd like to see is more Biotic Amp & Omni Tool upgrades and a differentiation (or rather more) between the two.  We saw it starting in ME1, then it just quietly went away, when I think it should've gone in the opposite direction.  Tali was a bad ass.  I'd like to see an engineer with an equippable Omni Tool that I can make even more of a badass.   Liara?  Same thing.

[StealthGamer92]

While I would agree that the "scanning a gun for blueprints" explanation doesn't entirely fit, logically, I think it still fits the best, just requires some imagination (say, normal guns have a sort of DRM, so you can't just copy them and you need to find one that is unprotected or whatever).
I was more thinking in terms of gameplay and there, I think carefully supplying the player with new stuff as a reward is more satisfying than randomly throwing stuff at them. All you need to do is carefully design your world with this mechanic in mind.

Also, as for the armors, I didn't mind that the armors didn't have that much impact. At least that way, I didn't have to dress my Shepard in some silly looking armor just o get the stats. With such a cinematic game as ME, the appearance of the characters does matter so if we have a bit more freedom in choosing it, I am all for it.
Just by the way, I hope we get to equip stuff on our squad mates again in the next ME.

Yes that makes sense to a degree. You could also say they have IFF so we can't pick it up and use it. My problem is in ME2 and 3 the gun's never felt ike rewards but like Bioware feels I am not intelligent or tallented enough to earn the gun so they just give it to me like a person gives a child candy for no reason except the kid is cute...its insulting.

 

To me armor should primarily be to add damage resistance. It has always done that wether Blades or projectile were used in the era. Armor was invented soley to help protect people from getting hurt as much as possible. ME1 had armor a military operative would wear to protect him. ME2 and 3 had....well thats the problem I can't rationalize suits that just have little effects and no protection bonusses. I mean don't make one armor that is so over powered everyone will use it. But at least make it modify your damage resistance and or shield performance.

 

Also they have put ME1 style Heavy Armor in every game but never after ME1 I could wear it. I know it is a stupid complaint but I like how it looked. It seemed Shepards basic aromor in 2 & 3 was the Medium armor or at least a modified version of it why not bring back Heavy and Light Armor too. Either as suits or individual pieces.

[Vazgen]

I think weapon scanning is the best way to implement looting for Mass Effect, especially since the system is already in place. That said, the weapons we scan should not be mission-locked like in ME3 where you get M-37 Falcon on Cerberus Headquarters! 

An idea, how about scanning enemy weapons, but make it so we can't get complete schematic from one gun? So we need to scan, say, 100 Mattock rifles to be able to build one. But there will also be schematics, hidden out in the world and available through shops that would allow to build that gun without scanning enemy weapons. 

Another idea - have basic weapons available early but add a very elaborate weapon modification system. Change handle, rail, handle, scope, barrel, trigger etc. Those are found during the exploration, some can be bought from shops. Different handles support different rails and triggers... Like Dead Space 3 crafting system, which was pretty good IMO

[Vazgen]

For an idea of what I'm talking about regarding weapon customization

Spoiler

 

[Revan Reborn]

Then the game is nothing but a glorified CoD clone.   "Hey, I don't have to interact with anybody!  I don't have to look for anything!"

Besides the BioWare storytelling, ME2/3 are essentially CoD clones. Big set pieces. Lots of cinematics. Crazy explosions and over-the-top action. There isn't a lot that sets them apart. Now ME even has MP which is very similar to CoD's zombie game type. I forgot to mention that in my other thread along with Firefight and Horde.

[saMoorai]

ME1's, easily. 

[DanishGambit]

I also liked the useage of mods in ME1. Incendiary is cool but having ammo types like anti-personnel and anti-synthetic was an interesting addition.

[StealthGamer92]

I also liked the useage of mods in ME1. Incendiary is cool but having ammo types like anti-personnel and anti-synthetic was an interesting addition.

Ammo "powers" were the biggest post-ME1 mistake. It was a silly(and lazy) game mechanic.

[DanishGambit]

Ammo "powers" were the biggest post-ME1 mistake. It was a silly(and lazy) game mechanic.

I would've definitely preferred powers to ammo slots especially for characters like Jacob. I think the biggest problem was that ammo became a major part of some characters' usability and it started to overshadow the actual abilities of the characters. Instead of being supplements to already awesome characters ammo powers often made or broke them. 

[Nitrocuban]

Yeah, an additional  weapon slot especially for ammo is better than "ammo powers" and way more versatile, too.

And like I said in another post already, some characters (like soldiers) still could have a skill for increased special ammo effects, longer duration etc. further boosting weapon damage if special ammo is equipped and the right skill options are choosen.

Oh, and pls bring back all the ammo types from ME1 and ME2, Bioware!

[Larry-3]

I miss being able to change my armor and ammo types while exploring.

[SNascimento]

Bringing back inventory and stat based gear would be a huge step back in the Mass Effect franchise. I do think they know that considering how they handled it in ME3. 

[StealthGamer92]

Bringing back inventory and stat based gear would be a huge step back in the Mass Effect franchise. I do think they know that considering how they handled it in ME3. 

Do you mean that as in a good step back or a bad one? Or are you neutral like the post sounds?

[SNascimento]

Do you mean that as in a good step back or a bad one? Or are you neutral like the post sounds?

A terrible one. 

[StealthGamer92]

A terrible one. 

Figured that. We oviously are oposites when it comes to gameplay preference. I like freedom and options like exploring instead of fighting. I won't presume to know what you like but it is definitely not the same it seems.

 

I got ME1 the week it came out just like 2 & 3, the diference is now years after 3 the only one I still own is the original becaus after roughly 9-10 play throughs(used each class once) of 2&3 there is 0 replay value. Whereas ME1 is so big I have 30 playthroughs with my first ever Shepard not including the dozens of others I created.

[Revan Reborn]

Here's the story. Mass Effect was the only true RPG. Mass Effect 2 and 3 were deliberately turned into shooters due to criticism and to appeal to a larger audience. Here's the problem though, ME2/3 lost a lot of depth in terms of what the player could do compared to ME2/3. Exploration and vehicles were replaced by the worst space scanning and mining game in existence (Not including Hammer from ME2 as it was DLC-only and had a minor role). Combat was simplified and built as a shooter first instead of an RPG. Inventory was entirely scrapped along with most gear progression. Customization was incredibly limited along with the purpose and necessity of armor.

 

This is not to say ME2 and ME3 are bad games either. ME3 is my favorite and ME2 is my second favorite in the franchise. That being said, they are bad RPGs overall. BioWare desperately needed to fix the shooting mechanics. No one is denying that. It certainly also didn't help that Mass Effect was on a short development cycle. However, because of this ME shrank creatively and did not really change for five years (unless you want to include the MP addition). What we inevitably received from Mass Effect was a turn away from exploration, discovery, and personalization to a shooter entirely on rails and with little depth.

 

It already seems BioWare Montreal recognized some of the faults of the ME sequels and is making a turn back to what ME originally was. Returning to exploration and the Mako are incredibly smart moves as they will be fresh new, and a direction we haven't seen from ME in a long time. If we could also see a return of an inventory system more streamlined, legitimate customization of gear (not just changing patterns) as well as the value and necessity of improving gear, we'll be on the right track. An entire revamp of the space mini-game would be nice as well, with scanning planets and deploying probes hopefully being a thing of the past.

 

The more BioWare moves towards building an immersive world that has depth, the better the experience will be overall. ME2 and ME3 were great experiences for the stories that were presented, but that was it. I felt as if I was watching a movie more than actually being immersed in this universe. I think that's a serious problem for BioWare and hopefully the next Mass Effect largely addresses these many issues.