27 réponses à ce sujet

[Azayat]

I was a bit shocked when I discovered the requirement to get this perk. 4 points in secrets just to be allowed to unlock it!?

I don't want to waste four valuable inquisition perks on things I don't really want or need just to be able to open some doors. But at the same time I already feel like I'm being denied interesting content if I don't get it (at least one sidequests so far cannot be completed without it).

Doesn't strike me as very fair.

It could have had a lower requirement, or been a character trait rather than an inquisition perk like in previous games. Or, you know, a crafted disposable item called "fine tools".

[Ieldra]

Here's a little tidbit: The agents you recruit into the Secrets branch count as perks, and count against the requirements. Recruit three agents into the secrets branch (should take you about a third of the game at most) and take the Arcane Knowledge perk (which you want anyway for the extra dialogue), and you can take "Deft Hands, Fine Tools" without having to spend any more points in Secrets.

 

Backtracking to the locks you missed in the earlier parts of the game should be easy since they're marked on the maps.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, you want the first perk from each category (history knowledge in this case) anyway for extra xp and dialogue options, and you can easily get three agents (who count towards the "perks in category") in the Hinterlands - try letting your party members do the talking when you are given the option.

[Arkwright99]

You can recruit three agents in the Hinterlands for Secrets who will count as three points towards the four you need to unlock DHFT.

[Realyn]

If and when you recruit agents to your cause that join as spies/secrety-like people, they add a perk. Same for warrior-type forces adding a perk to the Forces line, diplomats adding a perk to the Connections line, etc.

 

I only spent 1 point for the extra conversation options + 50% extra codex exp and got the Deft hands, Fine tools perk before even getting to skyhold because I recruited 3 spies in the Hinterlands.

 

Spy agents (spoiler tags because its the no spoiler section):

 

Spoiler

• Speaker Anais - At the southern castle where there is a Rift inside that Anais asks you to close to prove that you are the Herald. You can choose what she'll do. Listening for secrets is one of the choices. It adds a Secrets perk.
   
• Ritts - An Inquisition soldier you (can) save (if you're fast enough) in the quest 'Strange Bedfellows'. Varric can convince her to join your cause as a spy.
   
• Smuggler Tanner in Redliff. If you bring either Varric or Cassandra, you can let them convice her to join. You can also convince her to join if you have the extra Underworld conversation options.

 

I've put 'm in spoiler tags in case you want to find 'm yourself like I did, but if you want a bit of help I described the 3 spy agents you can get in the Hinterlands. With those 3 you only have to spend 1 point to get the perk you want

 

P.S.: If anyone wants me to remove the spoiler due to this being the non-spoiler part of the board, just say so... or just don't press the button.

 

 

[ronniecross2]

It's a decision ramification. I guess if you don't see the value in any of the other available perks in secrets, you need to ask yourself if DHFT is worth 4 inq points. Bare in mind, recruits can add inq points too, so you may find that as you progress through the game and pick up recruits, the perk is closer than you think. 

 

I actually think it's a lot more accessible than the previous games. Bare in mind that in the previous games there were a lot of areas that you didn't bring your companions along to, meaning if there were locked doors chests (there were always locked doors and chests) you'd be without them. Again, that's a decision ramification. Choose not to be a rogue? Loose out on some loot. Also, in DAI, you either have it, or you don't. In the previous 2 games, locks were leveled, and you had to unlock the correct level of lockpicking to benefit. i.e. if you only had easy lockpicking, you couldn't unlock a hard lock. 

 

So, I actually think it works out better here, you just need to consider your options, and what's right for you. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Choose not to be a rogue? Loose out on some loot.

You can still lose out on loot in the chantry basement if you don't like the psycho witch Sera

[Azayat]

Ok wow, thanks for the tips. The agents thing makes all the difference, I didn't realize that's what they did. I recruit them whenever I can but apart from that haven't actually found a use for them. Is there somewhere I can check which agents I have and how many? Do they do anything else?

Apologies for a bit of an outburst and some noobie questions. I'm a veteran of the DA series but I'm a bit overwhelmed by the inquisition management and the game is still too new for there to be reliable guides.

[Arkwright99]

Is there somewhere I can check which agents I have and how many?

You can see which agents you have (and who you recruited them for) in the Inquisition Perks at the War Table. They're located at the end of each respective Perks list.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Even with Agents, there's still tons of content that you simply won't (be able to) experience because of choices you made along the way.

Kinda' like RL. 

 

"Unfair", or just "The way things are"?  You decide.

[Jester]

The reduce time on War Table missions. 

[Serza]

Secrets are arguably the most useful category, except for maybe potions (which is an upgrade I bought AFTER I defeated the Big Bad - wish I could use Sera's nickname for your nemesis, but alas, no spoiler section...).

 

Focus, if you really want that extra punch from Mark of the Rift (Which is the only Focus ability I've used, anyway...)

Schematics are useless if you have Flames of the Inquisition, as you get schematics for the armor and the weapons right when you... err... reach a major point in the main plot.

 

Connections are useless. Sorry, Josie, but I'll craft all my stuff, and just do without all the rest.

With only a few really usefull perks in Forces (for me, anyway), I have Secrets levelled up the most.

 

Note: When I say I have no upgrades from Josephine, I mean I bought none. She has two or three assets in my playthrough, just like Leliana and Cullen.

[Azayat]

I get that there's a choice, but without knowing about the agents "reducing" the cost it made the choice feel a bit forced.

I basically spam my focus skills on rotation, so those forces perks are very good for me plus I'm playing a very lawful good type and I like Cullen, forces is my go to for solving issues.

[Degs29]

Doesn't strike me as very fair.

 

You could say the same of a lot of things that you have to work towards in games.  I don't really see it as a problem because the game marks it on the minimap and you can return later after you've run out of the more useful inquisition perks.

 

As others have mentioned, agents also contribute to that requirement, so it's not as onerous as you would think.

[Shark17676]

Secrets are arguably the most useful category, except for maybe potions (which is an upgrade I bought AFTER I defeated the Big Bad - wish I could use Sera's nickname for your nemesis, but alas, no spoiler section...).

 

Focus, if you really want that extra punch from Mark of the Rift (Which is the only Focus ability I've used, anyway...)

Schematics are useless if you have Flames of the Inquisition, as you get schematics for the armor and the weapons right when you... err... reach a major point in the main plot.

 

Connections are useless. Sorry, Josie, but I'll craft all my stuff, and just do without all the rest.

With only a few really useful perks in Forces (for me, anyway), I have Secrets leveled up the most.

 

Note: When I say I have no upgrades from Josephine, I mean I bought none. She has two or three assets in my playthrough, just like Leliana and Cullen.

 

The Inquisition category is also really good for the two inventory expansions and the extra skill point perks.

 

And yeah...other than the "Nobility Knowledge" perk, the Nobility category is pretty much worthless.

[Shark17676]

Here's the way I do it:

 

- Hold off on the main story to grind side quests and recruit as many agents as I can.

 

- All "Knowledge" perks (Underworld, Arcane, Nobility, History).  I always collect these ASAP to have them for as much of the game as possible.

 

- Deft Hands, Fine Tools.  By now I have Arcane Knowledge, and should have at least three Secrets agents to act as perks to be able to afford it.  It can be held off on since you can always go back to the majority of the masterwork locks you run across.

 

At this point, I resume the main story

Spoiler

and get to Skyhold.

 

- Grind more side quests.  Maybe kill a dragon or two (dragon slaying nets you a ton of influence each time).

 

- Antivan Tailoring, then Imperial Court Tailoring.  I have to manage my inventory especially well until I pick these up.  Don't be a pack rat -- sell everything that you don't use.

 

- Exclusive Training.

 

- I don't mind the grind, so I then pick up Advanced Focus, then Master Focus. 

Spoiler

Mark of the Rift

is just too good.  I always build up the full three Focus meters before heading into a boss or dragon fight.

 

From here, I resume the main story again and pick up whatever other perks I want as I go.  Other good perks at this point include:

 

More Healing Potions, Tempered Glass Flasks, True Grit, Enhanced Studies

 

The Sterling Reputation / A Favor for a Favor / Elite Clientele series is OK, too.  Extra coin never hurts.

 

I would say Forward Scouts as well, but you can always cheat and look up the locations of logging sites, quarries, etc. online.

[AshesEleven]

I'm a little annoyed at how advanced lock picking is a perk and not a skill that rogues work on individually.  Feels like I'm being arbitrarily limited.  Oh well.  

[wrdnshprd]

problem i have is that you need to put a decent amount of points into the "connections" tree in order to get access to the rare gear (4 or 5 points)..  that deters me from going into the other trees.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Most of the perks are either:

1) Useless

2) Underpowered

3) Only effect a tiny sliver of the game. Like how the (X) Schematics perks net you a grand total of four items, and the armors are all stat upgrades of the existing (ugly) default armors. Merchants might unlock one or two new items with the Rare Items perks, etc.

[themikefest]

I took that perk in my first playthrough and there wasn't much of anything behind those locked doors from what I remember. I will use my perk for something else

 

The only perks I make an effort to get are extra potion slot, more potions. The others I just flip a coin.

[AshesEleven]

I took that perk in my first playthrough and there wasn't much of anything behind those locked doors from what I remember. I will use my perk for something else

 

The only perks I make an effort to get are extra potion slot, more potions. The others I just flip a coin.

 

If I remember correctly, at least one of the Grey Warden stuff Blackwall asks you to get is behind a Deft Hands locked door.  

 

 

Most of the perks are either:

1) Useless

2) Underpowered

3) Only effect a tiny sliver of the game. Like how the (X) Schematics perks net you a grand total of four items, and the armors are all stat upgrades of the existing (ugly) default armors. Merchants might unlock one or two new items with the Rare Items perks, etc.

 

I absolutely love the dialogue perks, though.  

[themikefest]

If I remember correctly, at least one of the Grey Warden stuff Blackwall asks you to get is behind a Deft Hands locked door.  

 

Spoiler

Yep. In the Fallow Mire on the second floor at the Avvar outpost

[Azayat]

Yep. In the Fallow Mire on the second floor at the Avvar outpost

 

That's basically what set me off on this rant but I didn't want to say in case it counted as a spoiler. Anyway I will check how many agents I have and try to get the perk soon-ish, but maybe not before I upgrade my focus to 300

[themikefest]

That's basically what set me off on this rant but I didn't want to say in case it counted as a spoiler. Anyway I will check how many agents I have and try to get the perk soon-ish, but maybe not before I upgrade my focus to 300

Its a small spoiler. Once the quest has been activated, it will lead to the area that contains the item on the map

[metatheurgist]

I'm a little annoyed at how advanced lock picking is a perk and not a skill that rogues work on individually.  Feels like I'm being arbitrarily limited.  Oh well.

Just a natural consequence of turning 100% action game.