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[SPOILERS] Flemeth and Fate...or chance?


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#1
InDominata

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Ever since my many play-throughs of Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II (not to mention my readings) I have firmly believed in a link between Flemeth and Andraste. The events of Dragon Age: Inquisition combined with the Dragon Age book series has further strengthened my belief. Feel free to de-construct and re-construct at will!! 

 

I will be using the Tevinter calendar as reference (TE) up until the founding of the Chantry in 1195TE (1:1 Divine), where I will switch to Chantry calendar for ease of understanding.

NOTE: Tevinter calender starts at year 0TE when the Imperium was founded; this is approximately 1905 years after humans arrived in Thedas.

**The Chantry tells that the First Blight begins in 800TE and ends ~1000TE and is known by Andrastians as “The First Sin”**

 

****

 

I will begin with the basics of Andraste’s tale, totally disregarding 'gods' as a factor (I believe spirits are the beings capable of the greatest acts of power in Thedas):

 

-          It is said Andraste was born in 992TE in Denerim, when it was just a village

-          As a young woman, has dreams of “the Maker”

-          Escapes and marries an Avvarian warlord names Maferath

-          She cries every night for her enslaved people, until “the Maker” responds

-          1015TE-1020TE Andraste leads the first Exhalted March to free her people from the Imperium.

-          She allies with elven slave leader Shartan, it is believed the two were lovers

-          1014TE Shartan is killed before Maferath betrays Andraste to Archon Hessarian, it is said, in order to end the Avvarian invasion and to keep the southern lands out of Tevinter hands

-          Andraste is burned at the stake in this same year alongside her faithful generals, the Chantry considers this “The Second Sin”. (NOTE: Hessarian ends Andraste’s pain in the fire by thrusting a blade through her chest)

 

 

From this information we can make a few calculated assumptions about the REAL Andraste.

-          She was a mage, as only mages remember their dreams of the Fade upon awakening. The belief that she was also powerfully gifted in these arcane arts is held by the Tevinter Imperium (who converted to an Andrastian state in 1195TE)

-          Maferath betrayed Andraste due to both political and personal motives. It is widely believed by many Andrastians that Shartan and Andraste were lovers. In DA:O, the Warden seeks the Urn of Sacred Ashes and encounters Maferath’s (acclaimed) spirit and his riddle is as follows:

o   “A poison of the soul, passion's cruel counterpart; from love she grows, till love lies slain. Of what do I speak?” – the answer being jealousy

o   The rejected ‘Canticle of Mafareth’ tells of his feelings towards his wife and her lover:

§  “Spite ate away all that was good, kind, and loving till nothing was left but the spite itself, coiled 'round my heart like a great worm. And in my darkest hour, I turned from Her and vowed that I would destroy Her.”

 

-          Shartan was killed BEFORE Andraste, likely through Maferath’s jealous rage. Maferath then went on to betray his beloved to the Magisters, vengeance being one of the primary motives.

 

****

 

We now move on to what little we know of Flemeth/Flemythal’s history:

 

-          She is born in Highever 3:00 Towers

-          3:10 Towers is the year of the Third Blight, Toth, Old God of Fire, awakens to lead the Darkspawn

-          Leliana’s tale says she was the wife of Bann Connobar of Highever

o   She was discovered to be a mage (but I’m sure we all figured that)

o   She lived happily until a poet named Osen came to the castle and she fell in love with him

o   They fled together to the Korcari Wilds, and were harboured by the Chasind, and lived for a time

o   Flemeth then heard word Connobar was dying and wanted to see her face, she went to him alongside her lover

o   It was a ruse, and both were captured upon entry to Highever, Osen slaughtered before her eyes

o   She was imprisoned in the highest tower, there she summoned a demon and was possessed. She fled and slaughtered Connobar’s men, in the Korcarri Wilds she plotted and also had many daughters (we know Morrigan and Yavana).

 

-          Morrigan’s tale:

o   The bard Osen was Flemeth’s husband, and Connobar, as lord who was jealous of their love

o   Connobar promised Osen wealth and power in exchange for Flemeth, Osen agreed as did Flemeth

o   Connobar lied and Osen was killed. Flemeth learned of this and swore vengeance, begging the spirits to slay Connobar – and they did.

o   Flemeth was chased in to the Wilds where she met a demon that made her strong

 

We can draw a few assumptions about Flemythal from these scarce few pieces of information, and from events that play out in games, comics and books:

 

-          Upon Sundermount in DAII, after summoning Flemythal with the words of the poem, In Uthenera, Flemythal speaks to Hawke “So refreshing to see someone who keeps their end of the bargain”. I feel this is a little hint, confirming the tale told by Morrigan in DA:O to be the truest.

-          Flemeth appears to see in men, greed and blindness, and in women capacity for expansion of knowledge. For one, she has only daughters and makes many comments about female warden's different/superior opinions. Refers to men in DA:O as silly and seems to hold the male Grey Wardens in contempt.

-          Spirits like to make deals as we have seen with many mages (Anders, for one). I believe in exchange for the destruction of Connobar, the ancient spirit Mythal requested Flemeth’s body play host and carry out her whims.

o   In DA:I Flemeth explains the beginning of her relationship to Mythal, "Once I was but a woman, crying out in the lonely darkness for justice". Directly referring to her betrayal at the hands of Connobar, I believe.

o   Flemythal also says to the Inquisitor, "She was betrayed, as I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed"

 

****

 

Conclusions:

It is in using this quote from Flemythal (""Once I was but a woman, crying out in the lonely darkness for justice"), that, I believe,  greatly strengthens the link between all three beings in question: Andraste, Mythal and Flemeth.  The stories of Andraste speak of how she cried many nights in the hope of justice for her people, and Flemeth mentions her own lonely cry for justice as she was betrayed. It is important to mention that mankind, almost universally, blames the Tevinter Magisters for the Blight – and it is believed Andraste used this as reasoning for her Exhalted March. Both Flemeth and Andraste are betrayed by those with whom they made contract with, Flemeth’s promise to Connobar and Andraste’s marriage to Maferath.  As such, I believe Mythal inhabited the corporeal forms of both Andraste and Flemeth.

 

This leaves questions for Mythal, if she is the original victim of vengeance, then who was the perpetrator? It is mentioned by Abelas, guardian of Mythal’s temple, that she was murdered. The acts against both Andraste and Flemeth were motivated by jealousy, towards the women and their lovers. I, personally, believe the culprit to be Elgar’nan, as his nature and personal involvement with Mythal (at least in legend) fits in best with what we know of the tales of the other two women – and, naturally, Elgar’nan’s name literally meaning “Spirit of Vengeance”.

 

***

Strangely, the Towers Age saw the Blight of the Archdemon Toth, Old God of Fire. Toth was killed 3:25 Towers by a Grey Warden’s blade and split in to 3 pieces – later formed in to 3 daggers, each known as the ‘Thorn of the Dead Gods’. The link between Andraste and her death by blade whilst burning, and the death of the Old God of Fire by blade seems to be very strange coincidence. The blade splits in to 3 (Mythal, Andraste and Flemeth) ‘Thorns’. Not to mention, of course, Flemeth was born in the Towers Age.

 

***

 

One thing that continues to baffle me is the relationship between Andraste, Shartan and the “Maker”. The Canticle of Maferath: “Spite ate away all that was good, kind, and loving till nothing was left but the spite itself, coiled 'round my heart like a great worm. And in my darkest hour, I turned from Her and vowed that I would destroy Her.” Seems to indicate a much more tangible jealousy than that caused by Andraste’s relationship with the “Maker”, rather it seems to be jealousy borne of the knowledge of Andraste being the lover of Shartan.

However, the “Spirit of Maferath” replies to the Warden at the Temple of Sacred Ashes:

“Yes, jealousy drove me to betrayal. I was the greatest general of the Alamarri, but beside Her I was nothing….They loved Her, as did the Maker. I loved her too, but what man can compare with a god?”

This reply appears to indicate Maferath’s jealousy and seemingly defeatist attitude when placed in competition with a god.

 

Scholars of lore please analyse and critique!

 

Thanks for reading! :)

 

(I also find very heavy links between dragons and LITERALLY EVERYTHING. But that’s a post for another time :P)


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#2
Dune01

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Well done. I always found striking similarities between Flemeth and Andraste, and everything seems to be going in that direction. I am still slightly confused as to why didn't Mythal reveal that she was indeed Andraste previously. She already put the cat out of the bag, so why didn't she go all the way. That's the only thing that doesn't make sense. AND WHO/WHAT IS THE DAMNED MAKER?>?? If he loved Andraste/Mythal and took her for his wife, he has to be someone, right? Right?/?!1!

Can't wait for your post about Dragons, since I have a firm opinion of my own. :D



#3
Pierce Miller

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Originally my theory was that Flemeth was Andraste but DAI has kind of crushed that.



#4
EmperorSahlertz

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It is not only mages who can remember their dreams. Everyone can remember their dreams, however only mages are always lucid in their dreams.



#5
InDominata

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It is implied mages always remember their dreams and have limited control over them, whereas non-mages rarely remember their Fade encounters. Nonetheless, the Imperial Chantry maintains a firm belief that Andraste was a powerful mage with a political agenda - I tend to agree (for once) with those Tevinter bastards...



#6
Mimilette

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Flemeth and Andraste have another thing in common: they only have daughters. You can find a book about Andraste's children in Haven that specifically says that about her descendants. A connection between them immediately came to my mind after reading it.


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#7
InDominata

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Flemeth and Andraste have another thing in common: they only have daughters. You can find a book about Andraste's children in Haven that specifically says that about her descendants. A connection between them immediately came to my mind after reading it.

And by the spirits, you're right! I didn't make that connection myself... I feel the theory solidifies with each moment. Thank you so much! :) Apparently Andraste had many daughters, but confirmed two daughters. Just as Flemeth is said to have had 'many daughters' but confirmed two (Yavana and Morrigan). Such a curious connection, I believe Mythal had two sons - Falon'Din (Guide of the Dead) and Dirthamen (Keeper of Secrets), something crazy must have happened for that drastic switch. Can't wait to find out! Thanks again! <3



#8
Dominari

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AND WHO/WHAT IS THE DAMNED MAKER?>??

Solas.

Rather Flemythallas now ...
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#9
Tielis

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I think Elgar'non is the Maker, since he is Mythal's husband and uses the starburst iconography.  Perhaps he was the one who betrayed Mythal (and everyone).  Perhaps, since Fen'Harel seems to be Mythal's helper, that he was manifest in Shartan.  Hey, and both Shartan and Solas are bald!   :D

 

Also I get the distinct feeling that Mythal and Fen'Harel were lovers, and there is the rumor that Andraste and Shartan were lovers.  Perhaps Osen was Fen'Harel too?


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#10
WhatGoesHere

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none of the elven gods, including elgar'nan, will be the maker i think. the lore says that creation was already as it was when they came around. the story of the maker told by the chantry can't be the full truth given all that's revealed in dai, but who the 'creator' of the universe is will likely remain a mystery as bioware intends

 

so, this might not be related at all, but there's a bit of lore in the hinterlands that was curious. it comes from the landmarks that makes up tyrdda's tale. the complete codex entry is as follows:

 

Spoiler
 
i found this interesting, because they've revisited the chieftain morrighan'nan from luthius' tale. gaider denied the mordred style tale as having plot implications, saying it was written before dao, but i don't think that discounts some kind of relationship between morrighan'nan and morrigan. i believe he also said that the idea of flemeth had been around since before dao. if anything, they could have just done nothing with the codex story, or named tyrdda's descendant something else, but they chose to stick with morrighan'nan
 
anyway, after doing the war table operation, it turns out tyrdda's axe is actually a staff and tyrdda is a mage. what's more, the lady of the skies appears to be an elf who gives her counsel on the dwarves. if the avvar god is an elf, this is no surprise as dwarves and elves made contact in -3400 TE. luthius and the battle of red falls takes place around -355 TE, and tyrdda obviously came before some time before then (morrighan'nan is of her descendant, but that could be farther removed than daughter), it seems like this tale might take place pre-blight and before the fall of arlathan, but during a period of time when elves in general had withdrawn from human contact due to the quickening. also, tyrdda's tribe seems to be fleeing across the frostbacks, and is saved from what might be a dragon by a powerful storm
 
...this makes me think 'the lady of the skies' might have been mythal before the betrayal mentioned by abelas. the relationship is tenuous at best, but it's just something that came to mind when i collected the landmarks. it felt like the completed codex tale would have important lore since it's in the beginning area and has 8 landmarks and a long war table operation, unveiling a notable figure from avvar history as mage in the past, to go with it. aside from tyrdda's staff from the operation, a staff with a blurb about the lady of the skies' named 'tempest' is found in still ruins. to me this implies that the lady of the skies is also a mage, and the staff itself mentions her 'protective rage'. i won't comment more on either staves' properties, lest i seem crazy, but given 'heroes of dragon age', i feel like bioware makes an effort to link lore into their unique combat attributes
 
i'm not sure what to make of this. perhaps it is a self inclusive tale, since flemeth doesn't seem to have any affinity for tempest-y magic, but the fact that the lady of the skies has elven features and disappears, and their descendant is named morrighan'nan makes me think there is a connection somewhere. of note, the passages about the golden city are also tantalizing in the codex entry, and what made me notice the tale in the first place

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#11
InDominata

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Also I get the distinct feeling that Mythal and Fen'Harel were lovers, and there is the rumor that Andraste and Shartan were lovers.  Perhaps Osen was Fen'Harel too?

 

I'm pretty interested in that idea myself, and after reading WhatGoesHere's codex info and (what is assumed to be) Flemeth's elven lover... I feel a thought solidifying. The plot thickens... 



#12
InDominata

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SNIP

 

 

Incredible, I passed right by these codex entries without thought. Excellent find, so much information!

I almost fell of my chair with the name ‘Morrighan’nan’! But the suffix at the end of her name implies vengeance (in elvish). And “protective rage” is certainly a trait of Mythal I would think, or the trait of any mother. And you’re right, the words of Thelm and his whispers is very… alluring from a studying point of view. Amazing find! <3

 

Allow me to make futher analysis based on this glorious find!:

1st Stanza:

-          The most glaringly obvious and alarming at first are the lines “mountain maker, spirit’s bride: Free, her people” and “sacrificed she did to spirits…followed [their] quests”, if that’s not a similarity to Andraste I’ll be the Maker.

-          “Tydda Bright-Axe, dreamer’s eyes”, the dreamers were mages capable of entering the fade at will, thus to survive they had to have incredible mental fortitude. Elven dreamers spent their lives in uthernera – a state that many suspect the Old Gods, elven pantheon and Forgotten ones dwell in

 

2nd Stanza:

-          “Drake-scaled shirts their bodies covered”, definitely a dragon reference, I believe it implies the slaughter if dragon-kin at the hands of Thelm Gold-Handed (who appears to be a king of some description)

-          “Counselled in quick dreams alone, voices wiser man ignores”, Thelm was clearly in dealings with a demon spirit that compelled him to cross the Waking sea

 

 

3rd and 4th Stanza:

Hard to make anything concrete, other than he tried to convince her to go north to the “golden cities”, but at the behest of her elven lover, Tyrdda refused. Thelm then attacked her, and was smote by the fire of her staff.

 

 

5th and 6th Stanza:

-          Attacked by a dragon and saved by the elven lover, made peace with the mountain dwarves

 

 

7th Stanza:

-          Tyrrda wakes to find her lover gone, though I believe she still hears her words in dreams

-          “Aval’var so named the lover” not sure if this is the name of her lover

-          She sleeps with the dwarf Hendir “friend in passion”, in order to preserve her line

 

 

8th Stanza:

-          “Battles…won with wisdom, fire and blade” – the repetition of these three elements seem to be apparent in much of Thedas lore. Particularly in Andraste’s death and the Age of Flemeth’s birth.

-          “Skyward, one last trek she made”… maybe as a dragon or “to her lover, dream-delivered” in uthenera

-          “raven feathered”, curiously, both Flemeth and Morrigan have black feathers as part of their attire. I don’t know if this has any relation, but the god Dirthamen has 2 ravens bound to his service after he defeated them.