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[Prolefeed]

Also, I watched the clip of the speech on the Migrant Fleet someone put up earlier. D'AWW, GARRUS HUGGING HIS KNEES IS ADORABLE!



I do have to call you stiff, though, enormousmoonboots. If you ever go to a high school gym class, an elementary school reading circle, or any other area where people are forced to sit on the floor, that's not an uncommon position. I can do it.



It is kind of curious Garrus would adopt that pose at such a vital, formal meeting, though. It's like he's just chillaxing while the fates of the entire Flotilla and his friend Tali, too, are decided.

[Deviija]

I just wanted to run in for a moment and share my Garrus romance picture. I love the designers and devs forever for making this possible. (Don't click for those of you that haven't finished the romance/do not want spoilers.)



Garrus and Mayu Shepard D'aww. So cute. XD

[noisecode]

Prolefeed wrote...

Also, I watched the clip of the speech on the Migrant Fleet someone put up earlier. D'AWW, GARRUS HUGGING HIS KNEES IS ADORABLE!

I do have to call you stiff, though, enormousmoonboots. If you ever go to a high school gym class, an elementary school reading circle, or any other area where people are forced to sit on the floor, that's not an uncommon position. I can do it.

It is kind of curious Garrus would adopt that pose at such a vital, formal meeting, though. It's like he's just chillaxing while the fates of the entire Flotilla and his friend Tali, too, are decided.

   I had Garrus in my group (of course) during the trial as well and just noticed this the last time i played it lol......   we got this big judical conclave going on and he's just in the back ground chilling lol

[Prolefeed]

Deviija wrote...

I just wanted to run in for a moment and share my Garrus romance picture. 

Garrus and Mayu Shepard D'aww. So cute. XD

I don't get what's up with Garrus' face in that scene. Why is he bone-white? Is there a weird light or did someone just forget to color him in?

Modifié par Prolefeed, 05 février 2010 - 07:11 .

[noisecode]

Deviija wrote...

I just wanted to run in for a moment and share my Garrus romance picture.

Garrus and Mayu Shepard D'aww. So cute. XD

   You female Shepards have cool renegade clothing 

   And yes that's adorable.

[enormousmoonboots]

Prolefeed wrote...

Deviija wrote...

I just wanted to run in for a moment and share my Garrus romance picture. 

Garrus and Mayu Shepard D'aww. So cute. XD

I don't get what's up with Garrus' face in that scene. Why is he bone-white? Is there a weird light or did someone just forget to color him in?

Looks like a picture of a TV screen. Washes out color, especially if it's standard def.

Flexibility: Yeah, I'm not too athletic, but hugging my knees gets uncomfortable quick. Cross-legged's fine, though. My male friends report the opposite problem, so maybe it's a hip thing.

Garrus sitting like that has to confirm flexibility of cartilage, though; he couldn't curl up like that if the spines on the back of his shins were really stiff. (was anybody else kind of amused by the fact that he learned how to wear heavy armor between games?)

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 05 février 2010 - 07:26 .

[Faerlyte]

Briallen wrote...

Melisiana wrote...

I got the same vibe about the "right, because I'm in a great place to..." dialogue, but man does his "ew, humans" remark hit hard.

I honestly think that people are blowing Garrus' line about humans way out of proportion. Some people seem to think he was saying that he doesn't find humans attractive in the slightest, or even that he finds humans repulsive. But neither of those are the case at all--what he actually says is that he doesn't have a "fetish" for humans. I don't know, maybe my definition of the word "fetish"  is skewed or something, but I've always understood it to have a slightly...weird connotation, like an unnatural or slightly disturbingly obsessive fixation on something. So in my book, lacking an abnormally obsessive attachment to something in no way automatically means that you have no attraction to it whatsoever. 

I'm probably making this overly complicated, but all that to say that I actually took the "I don't have a fetish for humans" line as a positive. It ruled out any possibility that Garrus was considering sex with Shepard solely because he wanted to see what it was like to bang a human, or because it would be exotic and kinky, or anything like that. As others have said, it was about her personally.

(Melisiana - Apologies if it seems like I'm singling you out, that's totally not my intention! I've just seen more than one comment to that effect and I wanted to add my two cents on it. )

I was going to comment on that myself and I totally agree. A "fetish" does tend to have negative connotations.

Fetish:

1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.

2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.

3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.

4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.

Garrus saying that he doesn't have a fetish for humans is a good sign the way I look at it. I was actually surprised that so many people felt negative about it because when I first heard the line I thought nothing of it at all. As someone else mentioned, I think it's just his way of saying he'd never really thought about it before and that's not so unreasonable - it is crossing unknown territory. 

Anyone can find another creature, whether sentient or not, handsome, but when that other species is sentient it can take on a whole new meaning. I'm sure Garrus doesn't mind looking at Shepard one bit. Just because someone is different doesn't mean they're not pretty or handsome. I find the turian designs attractive - attraction isn't always purely sexual after all. We're attracted to things that appeal to us, what we perceive as beautiful. 

Modifié par Faerlyte, 05 février 2010 - 07:29 .

[jellobell]

noisecode wrote...

Deviija wrote...

I just wanted to run in for a moment and share my Garrus romance picture.

Garrus and Mayu Shepard D'aww. So cute. XD

   You female Shepards have cool renegade clothing 

   And yes that's adorable.

Very adorable, though the Admiral outfit on femsheps is the best. However, I find the *sitting on partner's lap* a bit too uncomfortable. The animation for femshep (or kelly/miranda/tali/jack?) suggests that she's having a conversation, but Garrus (/manshep/jacob/thane) is sitting ramrod-stiff and staring at some point over her shoulder, and it just feels really awkward to watch. Not the good kind of dorky adorable awkward that the Garrus romance has in spades, but creepy voyeuristc awkward that just makes you want to switch off the tv.

[RiouHotaru]

Who cares if the 'Save Tali for ME3' is hitting almost 5k replies, it's all spam and crap   It's them replying to each other at a mile a minute with one-liner posts.  We're doing discussions with SUBSTANCE!
...
Anyway, since a few interesting points were brought up, I'd thought, as the resident gay Garrus fan, I'd toss out my 2 cents worth! XP

Re: "Fetish for humans"
Garrus's statement might come off weird to some, as though he isn't attracted to Shepard, however, the common definition of a "fetish" is something that is required for sexual activity to take place.  Basically, you need this thing (be it an activity, or an object of some kind) to become aroused.  Of course, Garrus is being general himself.  He's saying that he doesn't immediately pop a boner whenever he sets his eyes on a human, not that he finds them ugly (notice he doesn't state which gender of human he likes though~).  His next sentence negates any negative connotations of the first sentence however.  "But this isn't about that, this is about us."  Regardless of whether he finds Shepard smoking hot or only mildly attractive, the fact she trusts him enough to want him, and he probably finds that more attractive than anything else.  He even doubts that she actually would go for him in the first place, since he's the alien.

Re: Shepard's Ridiculous Flirtation
Yeah...I think Bioware went with the route of having Shepard be the one who gets approached that way there aren't the complaints about "Oh gawd why is Ashley/Kaiden/Liara hitting on me I just want to be friends what is this I don't even-!" that were apparently cropping up regarding ME1.  Still, it is a bit annoying to hear just how strongly either Shepard (male or female) comes onto the crew.  I remember chatting with Jacob, and choosing the Paragon responses to be amicible and friendly...and suddenly Emily Shepard is suggestively asking if there's a Mrs. Taylor waiting in port for him and if he's free, with me at the controller flailing and going "ABORT!  ABORT!"  It just feels so out of character for Emily to come onto anyone that strongly, especially with the death of Kaiden still fresh in her mind as though it was just yesterday (remember, those 2 years passed in a flash for Shepard)

Re: Garrus Romance In General
I realize that I am horribly biased, but I do feel as though the FemShep romances are almost geared towards making Garrus the optimal answer..and here's why:

Jacob: Poor guy.  He's well-rounded, a nice guy (even Joker says so!), with no real emotional baggage.  His loyalty missions is likely an attempt to make just spit-take our sodas, because compared to Jacob's relatively normal personality, his mission is disturbingly jarring.  However, his romance with Shepard starts off cute (he's a bit put-off by her forwardness), but quickly dives into the realm of cheesy when he gets his confidence back.  It culminates into the final scene, which comes across almost as being akin to a poor directed soft-core porno (softer than Miranda's though) with his bad lines attempting at seduction and strip-tastic show.  Now mind you, I find Jacob attractive, and he's definitely a looker, but it's hard to keep a straight face while he's trying to seduce Shepard.

Thane: I realize Thane was an attempt by Bioware to make a smoking hot malien for the ladies, and I don't fault the fangirls...but his romance is so tragic it's nigh tangibly painful.  For starters, his attempt to imitate Garrus's flanging makes it sound like he gargles with gravel, which only sounds nice on occasion.  His 'perfect memory' flashbacks come across as exceedingly creepy, with the lighting exposing his irsises and pupils and his monotone voice.  And then there's his personal background, dear god.  The Carth Syndrome (Dead wife, estranged child) is bad enough, but then he's going to die from a condition where he will suffocate to death in 8 to 12 months and it looks like it CAN'T be cured.  Really Bioware?!  Really?!  Invoking the tragic love card is nice, but is played so painfully with Thane that I'd want to shoot myself because it's so sad.  I mean, Shepard's statement before they kiss?  "Be alive with me tonight."  Dear sweet jesus...

Garrus: Which brings us to our scarred and witty Turian, who feels like a balance between the overly corny Jacob and the proportionately tragic Thane.  Now, again, as I'm biased, take my words with a grain of salt please.  Garrus, like Jacob, has no particular skeletons lurking in his closet.  Estranged from his father for a difference of morals and perspective, Garrus joins Shepard in ME1 to try and be the Cowboy Cop he always wanted to be.  I'll assume you went Paragon on him for the purposes of my explanation, and say you convinced Garrus that rules are there for a reason, and I quote "If the people you're trying to protect can't trust you, then you don't deserve to be the one protecting them."  He goes back to C-Sec after the Battle of the Citadel, but realizes he can't do any good.  Then Shepard dies.  Probably distraught over the loss of the Commander he was loyal too, he somehow winds up on Omega, leading a squad of 12(?!) to do good for the people.

Now, Garrus loses his squad several months before you come back to recruit 'Archangel' due to a believed betrayal from one of his own.  Despite this, he keeps fighting until you recruit him, where he manages to help bring down all three heads of the major gangs, but not before taking several high velocity rounds (breaks his armor) and a rocket blast to his face (his scars).  Ouch, all this stacked on top of each other would be fairly traumatic...but not for Garrus.  Despite eating rockets and bullets, and the loss of his men, he loses neither his wit nor his confidence at all.  Once he tracks down Sidonis, you help him realize that 'black and white' doesn't always work.  He even admits his own faults, "Gray.  I was never good with gray."

Then comes the romance.  Admittedly, Shepard does come on a touch strongly (really?  Opening pick-up line is "Why don't we skip right to the tiebreaker?" when "You seem to have a lot of tension." is apparently too subtle?  Wtf Shepard!) but at first, Garrus acts like "Wait, really?  She's got the hots for me?  Hot damn, yes!"  But then, reality sinks in with the second conversation, when his usual overflowing confidence and wit start to falter.  He isn't sure he's the person Shepard should want.  Whether it's his disfigurement or his alien-ness, he feels Shepard could easily do better than him (especially with folks like Kelly/Thane/Jacob around!).  However, the following conversation (referenced above) to me spells out the heart and soul of their relationship.

Unlike Jacob and Thane, whose relationships feel built on lust and tragedy respectively, Garrus's relationship is one built on friendship, trust, and loyalty.  After all, he tells her "You're about the only friend I have left in this screwed up galaxy." which is perfect against Shepard's "I don't want something closer to home.  I want you.  I want someone I can trust."  Their relationship goes beyond male/female, and even human/turian.  Garrus's sturdy confidence is shaken because in his mind "How could she possibly want someone like me when there's these other people around?"  But Shepard proves that there's a trait he has, that makes her want him.  It's that trust.  He's stood by her against Saren, and now the Collectors.  And if Shepard consoles him that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, he claims that she wouldn't ever make him that uncomfortable.  (I apologize for the overuse of italics and bold, but I like emphasizing certain words for added punch and effect)

His awkwardness at how the relationship would be consumated is equally heartwarming.  However, I get the feeling his actions during the final romance scene are misinterpreted.  We've established that Garrus is definitely not inexperienced when it comes to women.  But I don't think his awkwardness comes from a lack of human experience.  No, I believe his awkwardness comes from the fact that it's Shepard he's trying to seduce.  Because the poor guy wants so badly to impress her, that he buys (cheap) wine and uses corny music, because he wants so desperately to impress her (he even admits to not having watched "the vids" when he founders, if you don't use the paragon interrupt).  But why does he want to impress her so badly?  Because...it's Shepard.

Not just some human who finds him hot for his scars, but the commanding officer who has picked out HIM among all the other likely candidates, and he wants so badly to do right by her.  After all, she has trust in him, enough to want him to keep her company and be close to her, despite the massive biological barriers.  He doesn't want to let her down, or make her feel like she's wasting her time, "I want something to go right.  Just once.  Just..."  His fumbling and whatnot I believe is not from inexperience, but from Garrus trying desperately to overachieve for the person who has bestowed upon him possibly the greatest level of trust that one person can give to another...

...I know I've likely been babbling, but based on this evidence alone, Garrus feels like the most natural choice.  Even despite the fact that I'm horribly, horribly biased, Garrus's romance feels like it was written with the strongest emphasis placed on it's emotion and meaning.  Now, I won't dare knock on anyone who picks Jacob or Thane.  They have their good qualities.  But comparing the three...I don't honestly think I could ever pick anyone but Garrus.  X3

/end wall-o-text

[Deviija]

Bwah, thanks folks.

And yes, it is a pic off my tv screen. Which is why Garrus looks a little white-washed. Plus, the cabin lighting over the bed is pretty bright on his face.

Edited to add:  I completely agree with Riou's assessment of the Garrus/Shepard romance.  I thought it was done PERFECT, with the right amount of sensitivity and vulnerability and affection build on their foundation of friendship and past comrades-in-arms history.  True battle soldiers that have both been beaten down by the Galaxy but continue to get back up and fight the good fight, regardless of their personal feelings.  It was powerful and yet subtle, IMO.

I also agree with the whole Shepard Is A Horndog dialogue options.  Just... whut?  I nearly choked on my drink when my Shepard made advances on Jacob so blatantly (and rather disgustingly).  There was nothing suave or playful or subtle or flirty about it, as far as I'm concerned.  Shepard just comes on like a semi-truck heading down the highway on fire.  I played the other romances later and found out that DudeShep AND FemShep don't sound much better in the other relationships... Just... yikes.  This needs to be fixed in ME3, please, if there are any new romances.  Or at least fix the dialogues so that they make more sense easing into the relationship/heavy flirts.  Shepard: 'I wanna do you in a car while riding a pony and eating ice cream.'  Jacob: 'Huh.  So you're a bootycall?  Awesome, I'm into easy chicks.'  I just didn't like it.  

As a fan of bisexual/gay Garrus, I think his romance could've gone just as good with DudeShep as it did with FemShep.   That would have been just as brilliant in my eyes. 

Modifié par Deviija, 05 février 2010 - 08:45 .

[enormousmoonboots]

@ Riou--I had the thought the other day that the romances are grouped by sex appeal (Miranda and Jacob, dat ass and dem abs), tragedy (dying Thane and damaged Jack), and adorkable (Garrus and Tali). I agree with you that Garrus seems the most balanced next to shallow Jacob (I don't dislike him! But really, there's not a hell of a lot of depth to his storyline. Thought he was more interesting than Kaidan, but it seems like much more of a casual romance) and depressing Thane (also do not dislike, but Christ, that's a hell of a relationship to get into. You're the first person I've loved since my tragically dead wife and you're the first friend I've had in ten years and you reunited me with my tragically estranged son Dustil and also I'm dying. No pressure.)

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 05 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[aznsoisauce]

@RiouHotaru - I agree with you wholly and completely. To me, out of the romances for FemShep in Mass Effect 2, Garrus' is the most believable. Everything you wrote describes exactly the feelings why people like me want the Garrus romance to work...especially in Mass Effect 3.



I must admit, though. The Garrus romance has ruined any other FemShep play throughs I do in the future. I don't think I'll actually be capable of following through with Jacob or Thane knowing how their romances pale in comparison.



Bioware really knocked it out of the park with Garrus. I dare say my heart melted faster than it ever did with Dragon Age's Alistair. Give me "Nervous, maybe. But never uncomfortable." over "licked a lamp post in winter" any day.



;D



So...thanks, RiouHotaru, for the kl,gr. That is to say: kinda long, good read.

[RiouHotaru]

@Deviija -- It is a bit jarring, but the further down the scale you go (sex appeal, tragedy, awkwardness) the pick-up lines becomes tamer and tamer. It's still a bit silly that the Shepard/Garrus line starts with her trying (and failing) to be subtle, only to basically come out and say (only more eloquently) "Let's shag like animals." (God damn I love the word 'shag', so much fun! XD) I wish that there was a way to show interest, then perhaps have the person you're wooing make advances on you, or ask if you're interested at all. I hear DA:O did that rather well. And yeah, if you think Jacob was bad...I'll save that for a wall of text later.



@enormousmoonboots -- Indeed. It hit on me that each gender gets one of each type of relationship, even if the species ratio isn't perfect. And yes, I do think Jacob is more interesting than Kaidan. And while I am loathe to pick on his fans, I saw the 'Kaidan Appreciation and Support Thread' and scoffed inside. After Horizon, I would be loathe to go back to Kaidan at all.



As for Thane/Jack...I felt Jack was much better written. As Kelly said, she's not sure of herself or her own motivations, and it takes a caring, gentle Shepard to show her that she doesn't have to be super-strong or caustic all the time, which makes that relationship exceptionally touching, far better than Thane's.



I do love with Tali how they made her potential love-interest status from ME1 (shafted due to chicken feet, I kid you not) and translated it into "unrequited feelings" that she had, but given the stigma the Quarians receive, was afraid to show. Also done in a beautiful way...though I fear her fans have blown it out of proportion with that ridiculous 'Save Tali for ME3' thread >_>

[Deviija]

Tangent note: I do think Jack is a great character and written well when romanced by a Paragon DudeShep, but I was sorely disappointed with her as a FemShep wanting to be a supportive friend. It just ends abruptly and poorly, IMO. 'I'm not into the girl's club. I like you, alright. That's enough. Now gtfo.' :|

[Pannamaslo]

Deviija wrote...

Tangent note: I do think Jack is a great character and written well when romanced by a Paragon DudeShep, but I was sorely disappointed with her as a FemShep wanting to be a supportive friend. It just ends abruptly and poorly, IMO. 'I'm not into the girl's club. I like you, alright. That's enough. Now gtfo.' :|

Yes. That Jack's line was very WTF inducing. Horrible, like everyone you talk to  thinks that you want to bang them (Mordin!!! WTF?!)

EDIT: when you are not romancing anyone, Mordin says that you talk to him often, so you want to woo him.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 05 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Faerlyte]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Who cares if the 'Save Tali for ME3' is hitting almost 5k replies, it's all spam and crap   It's them replying to each other at a mile a minute with one-liner posts.  We're doing discussions with SUBSTANCE!
...
Anyway, since a few interesting points were brought up, I'd thought, as the resident gay Garrus fan, I'd toss out my 2 cents worth! XP

Re: "Fetish for humans"
Garrus's statement might come off weird to some, as though he isn't attracted to Shepard, however, the common definition of a "fetish" is something that is required for sexual activity to take place.  Basically, you need this thing (be it an activity, or an object of some kind) to become aroused.  Of course, Garrus is being general himself.  He's saying that he doesn't immediately pop a boner whenever he sets his eyes on a human, not that he finds them ugly (notice he doesn't state which gender of human he likes though~).  His next sentence negates any negative connotations of the first sentence however.  "But this isn't about that, this is about us."  Regardless of whether he finds Shepard smoking hot or only mildly attractive, the fact she trusts him enough to want him, and he probably finds that more attractive than anything else.  He even doubts that she actually would go for him in the first place, since he's the alien.

Re: Shepard's Ridiculous Flirtation
Yeah...I think Bioware went with the route of having Shepard be the one who gets approached that way there aren't the complaints about "Oh gawd why is Ashley/Kaiden/Liara hitting on me I just want to be friends what is this I don't even-!" that were apparently cropping up regarding ME1.  Still, it is a bit annoying to hear just how strongly either Shepard (male or female) comes onto the crew.  I remember chatting with Jacob, and choosing the Paragon responses to be amicible and friendly...and suddenly Emily Shepard is suggestively asking if there's a Mrs. Taylor waiting in port for him and if he's free, with me at the controller flailing and going "ABORT!  ABORT!"  It just feels so out of character for Emily to come onto anyone that strongly, especially with the death of Kaiden still fresh in her mind as though it was just yesterday (remember, those 2 years passed in a flash for Shepard)

Re: Garrus Romance In General
I realize that I am horribly biased, but I do feel as though the FemShep romances are almost geared towards making Garrus the optimal answer..and here's why:

Jacob: Poor guy.  He's well-rounded, a nice guy (even Joker says so!), with no real emotional baggage.  His loyalty missions is likely an attempt to make just spit-take our sodas, because compared to Jacob's relatively normal personality, his mission is disturbingly jarring.  However, his romance with Shepard starts off cute (he's a bit put-off by her forwardness), but quickly dives into the realm of cheesy when he gets his confidence back.  It culminates into the final scene, which comes across almost as being akin to a poor directed soft-core porno (softer than Miranda's though) with his bad lines attempting at seduction and strip-tastic show.  Now mind you, I find Jacob attractive, and he's definitely a looker, but it's hard to keep a straight face while he's trying to seduce Shepard.

Thane: I realize Thane was an attempt by Bioware to make a smoking hot malien for the ladies, and I don't fault the fangirls...but his romance is so tragic it's nigh tangibly painful.  For starters, his attempt to imitate Garrus's flanging makes it sound like he gargles with gravel, which only sounds nice on occasion.  His 'perfect memory' flashbacks come across as exceedingly creepy, with the lighting exposing his irsises and pupils and his monotone voice.  And then there's his personal background, dear god.  The Carth Syndrome (Dead wife, estranged child) is bad enough, but then he's going to die from a condition where he will suffocate to death in 8 to 12 months and it looks like it CAN'T be cured.  Really Bioware?!  Really?!  Invoking the tragic love card is nice, but is played so painfully with Thane that I'd want to shoot myself because it's so sad.  I mean, Shepard's statement before they kiss?  "Be alive with me tonight."  Dear sweet jesus...

Garrus: Which brings us to our scarred and witty Turian, who feels like a balance between the overly corny Jacob and the proportionately tragic Thane.  Now, again, as I'm biased, take my words with a grain of salt please.  Garrus, like Jacob, has no particular skeletons lurking in his closet.  Estranged from his father for a difference of morals and perspective, Garrus joins Shepard in ME1 to try and be the Cowboy Cop he always wanted to be.  I'll assume you went Paragon on him for the purposes of my explanation, and say you convinced Garrus that rules are there for a reason, and I quote "If the people you're trying to protect can't trust you, then you don't deserve to be the one protecting them."  He goes back to C-Sec after the Battle of the Citadel, but realizes he can't do any good.  Then Shepard dies.  Probably distraught over the loss of the Commander he was loyal too, he somehow winds up on Omega, leading a squad of 12(?!) to do good for the people.

Now, Garrus loses his squad several months before you come back to recruit 'Archangel' due to a believed betrayal from one of his own.  Despite this, he keeps fighting until you recruit him, where he manages to help bring down all three heads of the major gangs, but not before taking several high velocity rounds (breaks his armor) and a rocket blast to his face (his scars).  Ouch, all this stacked on top of each other would be fairly traumatic...but not for Garrus.  Despite eating rockets and bullets, and the loss of his men, he loses neither his wit nor his confidence at all.  Once he tracks down Sidonis, you help him realize that 'black and white' doesn't always work.  He even admits his own faults, "Gray.  I was never good with gray."

Then comes the romance.  Admittedly, Shepard does come on a touch strongly (really?  Opening pick-up line is "Why don't we skip right to the tiebreaker?" when "You seem to have a lot of tension." is apparently too subtle?  Wtf Shepard!) but at first, Garrus acts like "Wait, really?  She's got the hots for me?  Hot damn, yes!"  But then, reality sinks in with the second conversation, when his usual overflowing confidence and wit start to falter.  He isn't sure he's the person Shepard should want.  Whether it's his disfigurement or his alien-ness, he feels Shepard could easily do better than him (especially with folks like Kelly/Thane/Jacob around!).  However, the following conversation (referenced above) to me spells out the heart and soul of their relationship.

Unlike Jacob and Thane, whose relationships feel built on lust and tragedy respectively, Garrus's relationship is one built on friendship, trust, and loyalty.  After all, he tells her "You're about the only friend I have left in this screwed up galaxy." which is perfect against Shepard's "I don't want something closer to home.  I want you.  I want someone I can trust."  Their relationship goes beyond male/female, and even human/turian.  Garrus's sturdy confidence is shaken because in his mind "How could she possibly want someone like me when there's these other people around?"  But Shepard proves that there's a trait he has, that makes her want him[/i].  It's that trust.  He's stood by her against Saren, and now the Collectors.  And if Shepard consoles him that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, he claims that she wouldn't ever make him that uncomfortable.  (I apologize for the overuse of italics and bold, but I like emphasizing certain words for added punch and effect)

His awkwardness at how the relationship would be consumated is equally heartwarming.  However, I get the feeling his actions during the final romance scene are misinterpreted.  We've established that Garrus is definitely not inexperienced when it comes to women.  But I don't think his awkwardness comes from a lack of human experience.  No, I believe his awkwardness comes from the fact that it's Shepard he's trying to seduce.  Because the poor guy wants so badly to impress her, that he buys (cheap) wine and uses corny music, because he wants so desperately to impress her (he even admits to not having watched "the vids" when he founders, if you don't use the paragon interrupt).  But why does he want to impress her so badly?  Because...it's Shepard.

Not just some human who finds him hot for his scars, but the commanding officer who has picked out HIM among all the other likely candidates, and he wants so badly to do right by her.  After all, she has trust in him, enough to want him to keep her company and be close to her, despite the massive biological barriers.  He doesn't want to let her down, or make her feel like she's wasting her time, "I want something to go right.  Just once.  Just..."  His fumbling and whatnot I believe is not from inexperience, but from Garrus trying desperately to overachieve for the person who has bestowed upon him possibly the greatest level of trust that one person can give to another...

...I know I've likely been babbling, but based on this evidence alone, Garrus feels like the most natural choice.  Even despite the fact that I'm horribly, [i]horribly biased, Garrus's romance feels like it was written with the strongest emphasis placed on it's emotion and meaning.  Now, I won't dare knock on anyone who picks Jacob or Thane.  They have their good qualities.  But comparing the three...I don't honestly think I could ever pick anyone but Garrus.  X3

/end wall-o-text

I just wanted you to know that I read all of that and it was awesome. Bravo, thank you! 

[Aki_varia]

@RiouHotaru ... Oh wow. Your post really left me impressed. You basically wrote down everything I thought about romances in ME2. I agree with you wholeheartedly; I, too, found Jacob's romance to be rather... Strange. I like him as a character, but the way his romance dialogues were written? Talk about a B-class romance comedy. I think I actually facepalmed at some of his lines because of how unnatural they sounded in my head. So... Cheesy.



Thane? Well, his "perfect memory flashbacks" creeped me out, too. I assume they wanted them to look cool or something, but personally, I couldn't help but cringe every time he "did" them. Plus, he was like an emo, alien version of Carth for me... And I lol'd out loud at Shep's "Be alive with me tonight" line. Dear God, that was one of the worst romance lines ever, imo.



Plus, I found it amusing that when I tried to "romance" all of them on my second playthrough, Jacob asked me at some time, if I wanted to make our relationship more serious, to tell /Garrus/ that he should not get his hopes up. Not "tell Garrus and Thane", not "tell the other guy you want in your bed" - just. Garrus.



One big IAWTC on everything else you said about Garrus. I also got this feeling that his romance is not about sex and attraction... I'm a female player, and after playing his romance, I was really disappointed that maleSheps can't romance him, too. Imo, Garrus doesn't seem to care about who you are, so heck, why not give m!Sheps a chance for some Garrus!lovin'? =(



Thanks for sharing your thoughts, your post made me happy, awesome read!

[DeeLite808]

.. yeah the Tali thread can't compare to the thoughtful analysis of this one.

Makes me all gushy and squeemy . As I stated earlier in the thread, I would have romanced Garrus since ME1 if he was an option. Now I get my turrian chance in ME2

All this talk of Garrus is making me want to make a plushie of him...a chibi-version of course.

Modifié par DeeLite808, 05 février 2010 - 09:58 .

[Faerlyte]

DeeLite808 wrote...

.. yeah the Tali thread can't compare to the thoughtful analysis of this one.

Makes me all gushy and squeemy . As I stated earlier in the thread, I would have romanced Garrus since ME1 if he was an option. Now I get my turrian chance in ME2

All this talk of Garrus is making me want to make a plushie of him...a chibi-version of course.

You know, I've never been a chibi plushie type person...but I'd seriously jump on that if it were available . Garrus just does that to you. He alone has the potential to turn me into a plushie-wielding fanatic - something I never thought I'd hear myself say.

Only Garrus. It's positively occult. 

[RiouHotaru]

Since I'm feeling inspired, I've got a bit more exposition on the nature of ME2 relationships, if you don't mind me going on for a bit!

Re: The "Sexy" Relationships
I have absolutely not a f*ing clue what Bioware was thinking here.  Jacob and MIranda are both pleasant people once you learn more about them and complete their respective loyalty missions (Miranda's especially), but the actual romances, especially given how Shepard has to inititate them, feels like someone bulldozed over the idea of 'meaningful'.  I know you ladies over on the G-chat will likely roll your eyes at me, but I'll point out Miranda's pointless and stupid idea of a 'romantic liason'...shagging in the ENGINE ROOM.
That's right, Miranda decides that clearing out the entire engineering section for several hours is "never settling for anything but the best." .....ARE YOU S*BEEP*ING ME?!  How is the cold steel of the floor in front of the DRIVE CORE (lovely sunset analog Miranda! <_<) somehow more romantic or meaningful that the Captain's Quarters?!  The only thing I could think of while watching that scene, instead of Miranda's ass or lacey bra, was that Tali was going to be super-pissed at humans having sex on her console, and Grunt would likely have a laugh for days.  I get the feeling Jacob and Miranda are meant solely for eye-candy, and nothing else.

Not to mention these two are completely incompatible for same-sex relations (Really, with the exception that they're physically hot, what gay/lesbian would want to romance Miranda/Jacob?!)

Re: The "Tragic Relationships
Tragedy makes for touching love stories.  A lot of the old Garrus/FemShep fanfiction involved a Colonist or Earthborn/Sole Survivor Shepard who needed Garrus to give her stability and put the pieces back together.  And in ME2, these roles are played by Jack and Thane.  Now, I've already discussed Thane, but what about Jack?  I should note that Renegade Shep who persues Jack will NOT earn Paramour by "romancing" her.  I find it amusing that it requires you to actually be nice to her and not just bang her for the hell of it.  However, both of these two seem...pretty incompatible for same sex, with Jack likely being the sole exception (due to the touching nature of the relationship and Jack's own admission of bisexuality)  Still, these come across as being so sad and heart-breaking...that the player might get depressed.

Re: The "Cute" Relationships
Many have labeled the Garrus/Tali romances as nothing more than Bioware caving into the fans and giving them "glorified fanfiction" and calling it a "relationship".  So why is it that these two feel like they were the most thought out and meaningful of all the romances?  I mean, Tali comes across as something of a bumbling teenager making her long unrequited feelings clear to the object of her affection, which succeeds beautifully ("And it was totally worth it..."), and Garrus...well, I went into length about that, but a deep affection born of trust and friendship that breaks the bonds of species ("This isn't about that.  This is about us.") and shows that love has no bounds.  Ironically, these two seem to also have the greatest compatibility for same-sex pairings.  Tali admits she'd link suits with Shepard, considered an act of great trust and intimacy among Quarians, whether it's Sheploo or FemShep.  And Garrus's carefully worded dialogue could easily apply to both men and women (Just don't select the Paragon interrupt as a guy, it's about as bad as hearing Mark Meer tell Kaidan "I don't think I've had the pleasure of you serving under me Kaidan.")

Re: Relationships That Never Were
Mordin and Samara buck the trend of relationships with beautiful results.  Mordin's whole "You're talking to me a lot therefore you're coming onto me" is a wonderful dent made in the 4th wall (since relationships could only be started by talking to the person constantly), and Samara FINALLY breaks the Asari Fanservice stereotype by stating her code prevents it.  Morinth doubles this with a 'What The Hell, Hero?' moment by killing any person stupid enough to try.  Legion on the other hand has a rather disturbing (if cute) obsession with 'Shepard-Commander', and even goes so far as to display the geth equivilant of a blush.  I feel that these are wonderful examples of Bioware breaking the molds by shattering them into little pieces.

Re: Did They Really...?
Rest assured, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Garrus and Shepard did indeed engage in sexual activity.  Why am I so confident, despite the abrupt fade-away?  Well, for one thing, why bother with Mordin giving you so much information and medical applications unless you were going to use them (Garrus was doing research for christ's sake!).  Two, we clearly see Garrus's hand coming up to Shepard's shoulder just before the fade.  I'm fairly certainly if they didn't turn the lights off, we'd see kissing.  Also...Bioware would never dream of short-changing us fans.  Every other LI gets a scene of intimacy that implies physical affection on a sexual level.  To deprive us Garrus fans of that would be a crime against humanity!   But no, seriously, they'd never, ever do that to us and give everyone else different treatment.  If Bioware is good at anything, it's delivering what the fans want to see.

[DeeLite808]

Faerlyte wrote...

DeeLite808 wrote...
All this talk of Garrus is making me want to make a plushie of him...a chibi-version of course.

You know, I've never been a chibi plushie type person...but I'd seriously jump on that if it were available . Garrus just does that to you. He alone has the potential to turn me into a plushie-wielding fanatic - something I never thought I'd hear myself say.

Only Garrus. It's positively occult. 

hahah   -- I love making plushies. I've done several..all cute versions of video game characters.

gyah...creative juices flowing....I must finish game. Do not need.....distraction...of...chibi-garrus.....floating in my head...

[Faerlyte]

DeeLite808 wrote...

Faerlyte wrote...

DeeLite808 wrote...
All this talk of Garrus is making me want to make a plushie of him...a chibi-version of course.

You know, I've never been a chibi plushie type person...but I'd seriously jump on that if it were available . Garrus just does that to you. He alone has the potential to turn me into a plushie-wielding fanatic - something I never thought I'd hear myself say.

Only Garrus. It's positively occult. 

hahah   -- I love making plushies. I've done several..all cute versions of video game characters.

gyah...creative juices flowing....I must finish game. Do not need.....distraction...of...chibi-garrus.....floating in my head...

Well if you do decide to make one of Garrus I'd love to see a picture of how it turned out. Then I'd probably try to bribe you to make me one, .

[RiouHotaru]

@Unmanix -- I know how you feel with Thane. You desperately want to help him, to fix him. But...you don't necessarily want to say "Be alive with me tonight." and make out with him? It's a perfectly natural response to want to help like that...but you're right, doesn't necessarily make for a romantic attachment.