42 réponses à ce sujet

[Above Good and Evil]

Replaying Bioware's older games and comparing them to Inquisition or Mass Effect 3, doesn't it seem like you're given less and less chances of being a 'bad guy'? In. Mass Effect 1 you can play Shepard as a psychotic monster that grins whenever he guns down people for no reason. Come Mass Effect 3 he's much more human and regretful. Same with Dragon Age - The Warden could be played as a murder knifing psycho who insults, degrades and possibly kills his party members, makes deals with demons and is an all around douche in general. Hawke could also be a bit of a nozzle with things like selling Fenris back to slavery, but those moments are rare. Playing Inquisition now it seems like I'm never given the option to act like a bad guy; lower choices tend to be frank rather than aggressive and insulting and all choices so far that I've encountered have reasonable justification.

[Eivuwan]

Well you do get the option to get into serious arguments with teammates forcing some of them to leave.

 

Spoiler

You can also punch Solas

[TheJediSaint]

I don't think player characters are becoming nicer as much as Bioware's moving away from clear "good" and "bad" choices.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Usually I hear people say the opposite about Mass Effect, meaning that Renegade Shepard gets increasingly more psycho as the games go on.

[Pierce Miller]

I actually don't remember being able to do anything evil this time around which is kind of a shame.

[Alejandrawrr]

Probably because it's easier to write sequels for "kindly agree to help the divine find her slippers / get snippy about it, but still agree to help the divine find her slippers" than it is for "agree to help the divine find her slippers / spit in the divine's face then introduce her to the murder knife". Which is why as BW's game have gone on, we've had a lot more of the former than the latter.

[TheTurtle]

ME3 renegade Shepard was a psychopathic, bi-polar asshat and this is coming from a die hard renegade fan.

Being a bad guy is cool and all, but honestly it seems like a terrible idea to be a douche to the people whose support you need. I think DA2 and ME2 are really the only games where it makes sense for you to be able to get away with that crap.

You can still get away with being an jerk to your followers OP and there are sometimes when you can do some pretry self serving things such as

Spoiler

making a deal with Ishmael which gets Michel killed

.

All in all going full blown evil isn't really something that makes sense in my opinion, but I can understand why peeps would want it for role playing reasons. I just feel like we should keep in mind that Bioware has a story they want to tell and sometimes certain things just don't fit into the narrative.

[Linkenski]

The thing is that they are defined with a core personality that no longer allows us to completely shape our own character. We're allowed to define our character by his viewpoints, choices and actions but not his characterization, which we could in every game until they made Mass Effect 3.

 

Part of me wants them to go back to how it was before, but the problem is that ME1 and ME2 Shepard was a static brick, and not even Hawke was that impressive. Inquisitor and ME3 Shepard both felt like real people. I much prefer Inquisitor though because we get some actual dialogue options and not just "here and there".

 

I think they should stick with Inquisitor template for all future games but then focus on making some proper character development for the protagonist.

[Above Good and Evil]

How is ME3 Shepard more psychotic? His actions, while cruel, seem much more justifiable and he seems to take no pleasure in them at all if they cause pain? Shoot Mordin in the back? Can be justified if you think the Krogan are too dangerous and Shepard is clearly disgusted with himself. Shooting Ashley or Kaidan? Council's about to die and if they die pandemonium ensues. Kill Legion/Let Quarians die? One might be more helpful than the other. Only outright petty thing is killing Samara's daughter. 

Compare this to Renegade Shepard who'll gleefully make fun of and murder people before rubbing their nose in it with a troll face, along with being a massive racist to boot. 

[KingTony]

As it turns out, you're playing games about heroes. Those people, believe it or not, aren't going to be Hitler clones.



If you want a game that lets you be evil, try Fallout.

[Above Good and Evil]

I don't WANT to be evil; I always play good guys and have no permanent bad guy saves. I'm just wondering what's with the sudden shift. Previews even seem to imply going back to Origins morality of 'anything to stop the apocalypse' with mentions of using either diplomacy, assassination or cooperation. Sadly this only applies to table missions. 

[Vyndral]

I do want to be a little nasty. My main problem over all is the lack of subtle choice we are getting this time around. For example load up a game and tell everyone you arent the herald. You know what happens? People usually say cool i dont know what to believe either. Just fake it. So i spend the whole game froced to pretend im the herald. Everyone i run into i tell them i aint. But yeah i dont know what to think either, just fake it. Screw you guys I know what to think i aint no herald and i aint faking it. Oh yes you are....

I dont mind random violence at times but i also hate that in this game that choice is taken away. Like in a personal quest, if somone tries to kill my friend, i want to be able to kill them. Not forced to talk to them about some crap that doesnt matter, they tried to kill me and my friend. Nah cant do that messes up the scene we are trying to create. I no longer feel like i am playing my character. Good or bad, i feel like i am playing your character, that aint fun.

*rants off into the sunset*

[Uriko128]

Replaying Bioware's older games and comparing them to Inquisition or Mass Effect 3, doesn't it seem like you're given less and less chances of being a 'bad guy'? In. Mass Effect 1 you can play Shepard as a psychotic monster that grins whenever he guns down people for no reason. Come Mass Effect 3 he's much more human and regretful. Same with Dragon Age - The Warden could be played as a murder knifing psycho who insults, degrades and possibly kills his party members, makes deals with demons and is an all around douche in general. Hawke could also be a bit of a nozzle with things like selling Fenris back to slavery, but those moments are rare. Playing Inquisition now it seems like I'm never given the option to act like a bad guy; lower choices tend to be frank rather than aggressive and insulting and all choices so far that I've encountered have reasonable justification.

 

I don't think that's the case with previous titles, but indeed the inquisitor is a "good person" no matter what you do. They could have allowed us to do something remarkably evil as, ie:

 

Spoiler

steal the orb from corifeous and enter ourselves on the Fade, maybe? Honestly I thought I would have the option of replacing corifeous if I wanted, because replacing the bad guys is like a Bioware classic.

[Kel Eligor]

Hum... In recent memory, Hawke could be a super aggressive mass-murder machine in DA2. 

 

And Shepard could double-cross and kill just about every ally he had in ME3 and he most - certainly - did not feel sorry for it. Killing Mordin and betraying Wrex. Killing the Quarian/Geth. Allowing Samara to kill herself and shoot her daughter... in the previous games, Shepard was a jerk and hilarious about it but in 3 he takes a turn for pure evil. DA:I is kind of surprising me with how many different shades of tame the protagonist is allowed to be. Here I was hoping to go full out ruthless and callous with my power.   

[Pierce Miller]

Kel Eligor, on 04 Dec 2014 - 6:55 PM, said:

Hum... In recent memory, Hawke could be a super aggressive mass-murder machine in DA2. 

 

And Shepard could double-cross and kill just about every ally he had in ME3 and he most - certainly - did not feel sorry for it. Killing Mordin and betraying Wrex. Killing the Quarian/Geth. Allowing Samara to kill herself and shoot her daughter... in the previous games, Shepard was a jerk and hilarious about it but in 3 he takes a turn for pure evil. DA:I is kind of surprising me with how many different shades of tame the protagonist is allowed to be. Here I was hoping to go full out ruthless and callous with my power.   

The only time you can really be evil is when you're judging people and even then that is just punishing someone for a crime.

[Vixzer]

I don't think player characters are becoming nicer as much as Bioware's moving away from clear "good" and "bad" choices.

 

I agree, they are getting more Grey into the mix ... that is awesome, Thedas is not simply "good" or "bad" so how the protagonist actions/decisions could ?

[Pierce Miller]

We can't learn blood magic, That's proof enough that we can't be as evil.

[AtreiyaN7]

I saw that video where one Inquisitor who had a bad relationship with Solas punched him in the face, so I think you still get a shot at being not-nice, although I don't believe that you get to be an outright evil bastard I suppose.

[Pierce Miller]

AtreiyaN7, on 04 Dec 2014 - 7:34 PM, said:

I saw that video where one Inquisitor who had a bad relationship with Solas punched him in the face, so I think you still get a shot at being not-nice, although I don't believe that you get to be an outright evil bastard I suppose.

To be fair Solas is being an absolute d*ck in that scene.

[AtreiyaN7]

To be fair Solas is being an absolute d*ck in that scene.

Solas was definitely being a jerk based on what I saw, but he and my Inquistor would probably just hug it out if we disagreed over something (and I didn't romance him - we're just friends, FYI).

[PrinceLionheart]

Honestly I think Bioware is finally pass the whole Good/Evil Morality system because there's a clear difference between being Pragmatic and being a straight up A-Hole. 

[Notshauna]

Like even in Dragon Age Origins you couldn't be a massive dick, more along the lines of brutal and end justifies the means, but this isn't one of their pre-modernization games, now we have sequels and that informs what we can and can not do. While an older game would allow you to become god king/queen of the universe, it'd do so in a text blurb and that'd be the end of it, and if there is a sequel they'd usually ignore it, but now we can make choice with permanence beyond the first game we might not be able to become the next divine and emperor of Orlais and maker/human hybrid but we can have grounded choices that effect the world in a more meaningful way.

[Pierce Miller]

AtreiyaN7, on 04 Dec 2014 - 7:41 PM, said:

Solas was definitely being a jerk based on what I saw, but he and my Inquistor would probably just hug it out if we disagreed over something (and I didn't romance him - we're just friends, FYI).

Me and Solas were bros as well, I was very surprised how he was acting when I saw that scene. Never saw him angry once before

[EmperorSahlertz]

How many people could you "gun down without reason" in ME1 exactly? Because honestly I can't remember any... Sure, you could be a merciless bastard who executed surrendering enemies, but the reason there is that... Well... They were enemies..

Generally speaking Shepard can be played in two ways, the "Success at any cost" or the "Lets work this out together" ways.

 

Only KotOR and NWN (maybe Jade Empire, havn't played it myself though), really let you play as the bad guy.

[AtreiyaN7]

Me and Solas were bros as well, I was very surprised how he was acting when I saw that scene. Never saw him angry once before

 

Yeah, I know! My jaw nearly dropped when I watched that scene unfold - lol.