519 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulhardy]

Don't like to do fetch quests? Then don't do them. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Don't like to do fetch quests? Then don't do them.

I don't like games with nauseating amounts of junk content. So what do I do? Not buy them.

Options! Options everywhere!

[Gerudan]

Am I the only one who thinks, that the main problem of DA:I lies in the almost complete separation of the main and the side quests? 

 

You have how many large maps in the game? I think there are 10 areas of various sizes (not counting Val Royeaux, Haven and Skyhold of course), but for the main story you only have to visit like three, I think. One is the Hinterlands, the other two are for the same main quest and only involve one short talk and one short fight. 

 

A lot of the maps have NOTHING to do with the main quest and that has dire consequences for how they feel. 

 

In DA:O you would normally do the side quests together with the main quest in the area. You would go to Orzammar just to do the side quests there, to level up and get better equipment, you would go there, because the main quest send you there. And then you would pick up the side quests there and do them...well "on the side", WHILE you were following the main quest.

 

In DA:I you only get to most of the maps, to level up, get better gear and collect power. There is no real reason apart from that to ever went to most of them. So they basically become leveling grounds like in an MMO. That they have either no real story of their own or only a very weak one, doesn't help either. 

 

I honestly don't even think, that the side quests in DA:O were that much better, the main difference to DA:I is, that in DA:I they suddenly become the something of a main quest, while you are in the area, because the main quest is completely on hold, as long as you are on the map and none of the quest lines in the areas are really strong enough to carry you through.

 

THAT is the real problem of DA:I in my opinion. You actually are playing two separate games with the same character. One is the main story that mostly happens on small maps and the other one is something of  a single player MMO that plays on large sprawling maps almost without any story at all. 

[Yulia]

The game is built with open world because that's what most of the fans wanted. idk what you're saying when "most of us don't like this type of gameplay" lol. Bioware took a lot of heat after DAII and peole were tired of small corridor maps, well here we go. This is what we get since we asked for it lol. I love the game, it could've been better but I love it.

[Sidney]

Am I the only one who thinks, that the main problem of DA:I lies in the almost complete separation of the main and the side quests? 

I've said the same thing. In DAO other than very minor things most side quests were on the way to main quests. You found Ruck on the way to Branka, you found Asunder in the way, you found records on the way and so forth.

The argument you can make in DAI is that the main quest is to 1. build up the Inquisition to 2. stop the main bad guy. That has the effect of making all quests relate to the former purpose but having nothing to do with the latter. The problem wi the "build the inquisition" is that over the long run how well or not you build it doesn't seem to have much effect. Your inquisition can't fail at any point because you have messed it up. Plus, you can only get positive outcomes, you can't lose prestige in any way I have found so success is more or less inevitable.

[Draining Dragon]

The game is built with open world because that's what most of the fans wanted.

Proof?

[Ashen Nedra]

That's not it. The main story, the  companion storylines, the combat, the art style (ever looked at a male elven wearing PJs in skyhold....?) and pretty much every little bits and pieces of the game I can think of  don't feel connected.

 

To use a culinary analogy, it's a buffet. Pick and choose.  Good Bioware RPGs' used to feel like French cuisine.

 

To use an in-game example, I like elves and forgotten civilizations, Solas was alright as a companion and the desert setting is visually beautiful BUT, as I don't like fetch quests, and as I certainly dislike being told how to play, I couldn't finish the Oasis thing, lore and rewards be damned. I could give you maybe 10 examples of such occurrences.

 

As for the main story, I feel so disconnected I can't even finish it. Now, DAI is just a time-sink for me, as it was designed to be, I guess.

 

DA2 had reused environments, and that's what people complained about, among other things.  In DAI, let me think...Skyhold and f..ing War table?

Modifié par Ashen nedra, 12 décembre 2014 - 12:41 .

[Fandango]

To use a culinary analogy, it's a buffet. Pick and choose.

That's a wonderful analogy Ashen nedra - I couldn't agree more.

[Maverick827]

[General] [Inquisitor]: What level is Adamant?
[General] [Solas]: The mobs are around level 15, but you can go sooner
[General] [Sera]: Yeah, if you don't suck
[General] [Inquisitor]: How much sooner? I'm level 10
[General] [Sera]: Lol, 10 is too low
[General] [Solas]: That's probably *too* low. You should hit up The Storm Coast or The Forbidden Oasis, or maybe even some old Hinterlands quests you might have skipped and level up a bit
[General] [Inquisitor]: Okay thanks

...

[General] [Inquisitor]: L3M Adamant need tank and heals
[General] [Cole]: I'll go
[General] [Inquisitor]: No melee
[General] [Cole]: =(
[General] [Solas]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Dorian]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Vivienne]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Sera]: Noobs
[General] [Anders]: I can heal
[General] [Varric]: Don't trust that guy, I've been on a run with him before and he ended up being an *******
[General] [Varric]: Lol, *******, filter is on by default?
[General] [Iron Bull]: I can tank
Invitation sent to Iron Bull
Iron Bull has joined the party
[Party] [Iron Bull]: Thanks
[Party] [Inquisitor]: ...it says you're two-handed? Alt spec?
[Party] [Iron Bull]: Main, why?
Iron Bull has been removed from the party
[General] [Cole]: I'm still available...

...

[Party] [Inquisitor]: Alright, I have no idea what this guy does. I guess we'll just wing it. Blackwall, run in and grab aggro on the boss. It looks like there might be some adds in the back, so pick those up as well.
[Party] [Varric]: Adds might also drop from the ceiling
[Party] [Inquisitor]: What? That doesn't make any sense
[Party] [Varric]: /shrug, it happened in the last game I played
[Party] [Blackwall]: I'll just pick anything up and go from there
[Party] [Inquisitor]: Varric, can you lay down some traps?
[Party] [Varric]: Yeah, but why would you want to?
[Party] [Inquisior]: Good point. Forget the traps. Just DPS the boss and follow my target if adds spawn
[Party] [Varric]: Should have went Tempest =(
[Party] [Varric]: Sounds good
[Party] [Inquisitor]: Vivienne, just throw down some barriers and maybe keep an eye out for things to dispel. Everyone ready?
Inquisitor initiates a ready check
Varric is ready
Blackwall is ready
[Whisper] [Vivienne]: I disapprove of this strat

[theluc76]

yep just like a MMO

[Yulia]

http://www.Edmontonj...9789/story.html. there ya go Draining Dragon. I would've pasted the link but the website has been a pain in my *** lately. plus I have friends who hated the corridors but I can't prove that lol. if I really wanted to I could look for more tho. point is people are tired of corridor fighting so bam, here's the inquisition.

[corporal doody]

DA2 quests were all..Kill that guy.

[ORTesc]

[General] [Inquisitor]: What level is Adamant?
[General] [Solas]: The mobs are around level 15, but you can go sooner
[General] [Sera]: Yeah, if you don't suck
[General] [Inquisitor]: How much sooner? I'm level 10
[General] [Sera]: Lol, 10 is too low
[General] [Solas]: That's probably *too* low. You should hit up The Storm Coast or The Forbidden Oasis, or maybe even some old Hinterlands quests you might have skipped and level up a bit
[General] [Inquisitor]: Okay thanks

...

[General] [Inquisitor]: L3M Adamant need tank and heals
[General] [Cole]: I'll go
[General] [Inquisitor]: No melee
[General] [Cole]: =(
[General] [Solas]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Dorian]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Vivienne]: What are "heals?"
[General] [Sera]: Noobs
[General] [Anders]: I can heal
[General] [Varric]: Don't trust that guy, I've been on a run with him before and he ended up being an *******
[General] [Varric]: Lol, *******, filter is on by default?
[General] [Iron Bull]: I can tank
Invitation sent to Iron Bull
Iron Bull has joined the party
[Party] [Iron Bull]: Thanks
[Party] [Inquisitor]: ...it says you're two-handed? Alt spec?
[Party] [Iron Bull]: Main, why?
Iron Bull has been removed from the party
[General] [Cole]: I'm still available...

...

[Party] [Inquisitor]: Alright, I have no idea what this guy does. I guess we'll just wing it. Blackwall, run in and grab aggro on the boss. It looks like there might be some adds in the back, so pick those up as well.
[Party] [Varric]: Adds might also drop from the ceiling
[Party] [Inquisitor]: What? That doesn't make any sense
[Party] [Varric]: /shrug, it happened in the last game I played
[Party] [Blackwall]: I'll just pick anything up and go from there
[Party] [Inquisitor]: Varric, can you lay down some traps?
[Party] [Varric]: Yeah, but why would you want to?
[Party] [Inquisior]: Good point. Forget the traps. Just DPS the boss and follow my target if adds spawn
[Party] [Varric]: Should have went Tempest =(
[Party] [Varric]: Sounds good
[Party] [Inquisitor]: Vivienne, just throw down some barriers and maybe keep an eye out for things to dispel. Everyone ready?
Inquisitor initiates a ready check
Varric is ready
Blackwall is ready
[Whisper] [Vivienne]: I disapprove of this strat

 

LOL... so on point. Even the whisper at the end, there's always one silent person that just whispers you right before you pull. I wish I could like this more than once.

[Back Lot Basher]

I'm not sure if people have just lost touch with how games are structured suddenly, or what.  I don't get all the insistence that there is some kind of distinct separation of side and story quests.  Let's take Skyrim as an example.  If you wanted to do nothing but the main quest, you could count on both hands the number of places you have to visit.  But you don't.  You visit hundreds as you search for loot, explore, and level up.  That is the EXACT same thing you are doing when you visit these 10 areas in DA:I.  You explore and level up, just like you would do in Skyrim.  You find rare loot, just like you would in Skyrim.

 

It seems like the fact that the locations appear as separate nodes on a world map, rather than by invisible regions like the holds in Skyrim, has played mind games on people.  It's like, because you don't see a distinct line taking you from point A to point B ACROSS the Hinterlands, that it represents a detour, when in fact it's no different from spending time in any other non-story region in a game like Skyrim.

 

This game is a story of an Inquisition which starts as a broken, scattered, ragtag group of combatants that cannot simply send a warrior, rogue and two mages into the pits of hell and make everything right with a few spells, arrows, and swings of a sword.  It's an immersive story that sets you in the role of the person who must build a force, and all these quests contribute to it.

 

Mild spoiler -------  Does anyone remember, the girl you meet in your "pointless" exploration, the young elf that you have an option to advise to join the Wardens or the Inquisition?  I do, because I suggested she go to the Wardens.  And then got to experience the horror of seeing her get her throat cut in a blood sacrifice as part of the main story.  Something minor and seemingly uneventful turned out to have a big impact on my story experience, and I might have missed it if I wasn't doing all these side quests and exploring.

 

A game like this requires more than just linear thinking.  It's a layered, nuanced tale that is more than the sum of its parts; parts you can only find if you take the time to just enjoy a bit of wanderlust.  If you can't understand that, then maybe RPGs are not for you.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

It's funny. People wanted big areas and exploration. Now we get huge areas and loads of exploration...and people complain and ask what is the point of most of those areas?

Oooh, you have no reason to go to X, Y or Z!

You go there to experience the world, maybe? To explore, to level up, to get items. Or do you really need the story to hold your hand and drag you to those areas?

As for the side quests, I agree that they could have been more interesting and varied than "bring me item X" or whatever. I would have loved side quests like the N7 ones in ME2.

[Maverick827]

It's funny. People wanted big areas and exploration. Now we get huge areas and loads of exploration...and people complain and ask what is the point of most of those areas?
Oooh, you have no reason to go to X, Y or Z!
You go there to experience the world, maybe? To explore, to level up, to get items. Or do you really need the story to hold your hand and drag you to those areas?
As for the side quests, I agree that they could have been more interesting and varied than "bring me item X" or whatever. I would have loved side quests like the N7 ones in ME2.

I don't remember seeing anyone ask for bigger areas, they were just upset with DA2's recycled areas. There's a middle ground between DA2 and DAI, and that middle ground is DAO.

[Angloassassin]

I don't remember seeing anyone ask for bigger areas, they were just upset with DA2's recycled areas. There's a middle ground between DA2 and DAI, and that middle ground is DAO.

 

I believe the rallying cry was "Being stuck to Kirkwall and it's surrounding areas" - Wounded coast, sundermount, and bone pit to be precise. 

[tmp7704]

I don't remember seeing anyone ask for bigger areas, they were just upset with DA2's recycled areas. There's a middle ground between DA2 and DAI, and that middle ground is DAO.

There were complaints about DAO being just a series of narrow corridors pretending to be a world, especially after Skyrim release. DA2 with its "one cave for all quests" bare bones approach only made the complaints worse, but it didn't start them.

[Maverick827]

There were complaints about DAO being just a series of narrow corridors pretending to be a world, especially after Skyrim release. DA2 with its "one cave for all quests" bare bones approach only made the complaints worse, but it didn't start them.

But "a series of narrow corridors" is not a valid complaint for a game that is decidedly built around having a series of narrow corridors, like pretty much every tabletop and CRPG.

I mean, they can do whatever they want with the series, but I don't think it's fair to brush people off when they complain that the series has almost switched genres entirely.

[shootist70]

I agree with the OP. I never did like the 'world of paths; we had in the first two DA games, and much prefer the open-world setting, yet much of the exploration feels aimless and empty. We could have done with far more character and story driven motivation for exploring each area, as it feels too much like we're doing it for the purpose of improving gear and stats. Surely it couldn't have cost BW too much to get more characters into these areas with their own motivations and story/plot, with more dialogue, interactivity and cut-scenes. 

[tmp7704]

But "a series of narrow corridors" is not a valid complaint for a game that is decidedly built around having a series of narrow corridors, like pretty much every tabletop and CRPG.

Having game built around series of narrow corridors is but a design choice. When a number of computer RPGs demonstrated over the years that it's merely that, a choice, and that you can do it differently, it's perfectly valid to complain about such design choice if someone would rather things were done in a different (more open) manner.

Just like people in this very thread complain about DAI being built with lots of "fetch quests", because they'd rather this game went differently about its content building.
 

I mean, they can do whatever they want with the series, but I don't think it's fair to brush people off when they complain that the series has almost switched genres entirely.

But what if this 'almost switching genres' is in part a result of feedback received from the previous installments? DAO had narrow corridors and people complained. DA2 had narrow corridors *and* tiny area in general, and people complained even more. So why couldn't BW seek to address these complaints and make DAI, the next installment of the series larger in scope, just like maybe they were led to believe people wanted them to?

[Ashen Nedra]

Who are these "people" everybody seems to refer to as the voice of the majority? The BSN? Which is what ? 3000 something members vs 3 million sales for DAO and 2.5 for DA2? Twitter? Reddit? 4chan?

 

Don't mistake echo chambers on the Internet for real life.

 

As far as I remember and infer from BW communication, the devs intended for each area to have a coherent narrative and a clear quest-line, as well as using the forts for secondary quest-hubs.  It got cut out and they had to fill the game up with..euh...fillers. And what is the most cost efficient type of quests in game development? Fetch quests.

 

But it's ok to like them. I heard some people love all Naruto episodes too, so...

[Ashen Nedra]

To Fandango:

 

thank you kindly, good sir.

[tmp7704]

As far as I remember and infer from BW communication, the devs intended for each area to have a coherent narrative and a clear quest-line, as well as using the forts for secondary quest-hubs.  It got cut out and they had to fill the game up with..euh...fillers.

It did? Most of the zones appear to have pretty clear narrative (that you get summary of in the initial access operation screen) and associated quest lines. They have also secondary tasks but that seems like additions rather than replacement, given the main narratives still exist.

[Uccio]

It's funny. People wanted big areas and exploration. Now we get huge areas and loads of exploration...and people complain and ask what is the point of most of those areas?

Oooh, you have no reason to go to X, Y or Z!

You go there to experience the world, maybe? To explore, to level up, to get items. Or do you really need the story to hold your hand and drag you to those areas?

As for the side quests, I agree that they could have been more interesting and varied than "bring me item X" or whatever. I would have loved side quests like the N7 ones in ME2.

 

For me it is because there is no connection between the fetch quest and the story (most of them at least). There is (kind of) rpg story and then there is the mmo grind fests. I would have preferred less of those simple fetch quests and more detailed and fleshed out sidequests, with cinematics and actual discussions. Now I just run hours and hours and hours and hours and kill, kill, kill, kill etc. in silence. While picking flowers and rocks. Not very uplifting.