519 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

For me it is because there is no connection between the fetch quest and the story (most of them at least). There is (kind of) rpg story and then there is the mmo grind fests. I would have preferred less of those simple fetch quests and more detailed and fleshed out sidequests, with cinematics and actual discussions. Now I just run hours and hours and hours and hours and kill, kill, kill, kill etc. in silence. While picking flowers and rocks. Not very uplifting.

Alternate view on these unconnected side quests is, if you don't dismiss them outright as 'mmo grind fests' (and to some degree even if you do) they contribute to building the game world as something bigger (and so more 'real') that doesn't all revolve exclusively around the player's navel. As it makes sense for most people living in that world to be the most concerned about their most immediate problems -- whether it's they're hungry, their family member is missing or even if there's proverbial rats infesting their cellar. Not the player's quest, whatever it might be.

They don't give any more damn about the player's character than the player gives about them, but if they're not present then you'd wind up with a very empty feeling place, no matter the map sizes. I doubt if it'd be overall an improvement.

[Maverick827]

A really jarring difference between the games is meeting the Dalish clans in both games. It just felt so shallow this time. I just walked up to the quest hub, again, like it was an MMO, and picked up some random quests. In Origins they were secretive and reluctant to let you help and you really got a sense of the culture. I was so let down this time.

[tmp7704]

A really jarring difference between the games is meeting the Dalish clans in both games. It just felt so shallow this time. I just walked up to the quest hub, again, like it was an MMO, and picked up some random quests. In Origins they were secretive and reluctant to let you help and you really got a sense of the culture. I was so let down this time.

Let's be honest, how long did it take in DAO to get your journal filled with "find me some ironbark", "this elf is missing his wife", "our scouts didn't return yet", "this halla is sick, please halp" and "I really want to get married but I need a pelt and the keeper grounded us all", not to mention the main "well we'd help you but go kill that spirit for us first, ok?" 5-10 minutes if that?

Reluctant to let you help, as if.

[MagisterMaximus]

If you think about it, every game is just like one endless fetch quest. I mean your always either looking for something or someone.  Or you could take the high road and enjoy the game.

[In Exile]

A really jarring difference between the games is meeting the Dalish clans in both games. It just felt so shallow this time. I just walked up to the quest hub, again, like it was an MMO, and picked up some random quests. In Origins they were secretive and reluctant to let you help and you really got a sense of the culture. I was so let down this time.

As tmp says, they actually blackmailed you into helping. They were super eager for you to do it too. They were just jerks about it.

[Camenae]

Can I say something?  The first go-around I just ran around going *accept* *accept* *accept* every quest that pops up.  Then after a while I thought, wow game is dumb so many fetch quests.  

 

Then I realized I'm not playing World of Warcraft anymore, so my second go-around I actually paused and read some stuff (admittedly not all, but much more than the first go-around).  That's when I started to grasp the narrative tied to each zone.  

 

It also helps that my second go-around I don't think I had the banter bug, at least not as bad.  Your party members commenting on just about everywhere you go and every quest item you pick up really flesh out the story of the side quests a whole lot more.

[ORTesc]

Can I say something?  The first go-around I just ran around going *accept* *accept* *accept* every quest that pops up.  Then after a while I thought, wow game is dumb so many fetch quests.  

 

Then I realized I'm not playing World of Warcraft anymore, so my second go-around I actually paused and read some stuff (admittedly not all, but much more than the first go-around).  That's when I started to grasp the narrative tied to each zone.  

 

It also helps that my second go-around I don't think I had the banter bug, at least not as bad.  Your party members commenting on just about everywhere you go and every quest item you pick up really flesh out the story of the side quests a whole lot more.

 

You know you can read those quests in World of Warcraft and they'll make sense as well, right? I mean, it's literally the same formula used in most mmos. This is a singleplayer mmo.

[Ashen Nedra]

Yeah, and every traditional or folk tale can be broken to very simple and repetitive contents: analogical to a a fetch quest. I think V. Propp theorized this. What is Tolkien's art but fetch the ring, destroy the ring + hero journey? Sometimes it's well-written though.

 

Fetch quest is a term specific to video games and describes a bare-boned quest involving tedium. That's why there's icing on the cake. Art, combat, story.

 

 

Your point?

Modifié par Ashen nedra, 12 décembre 2014 - 12:10 .

[Maverick827]

Let's be honest, how long did it take in DAO to get your journal filled with "find me some ironbark", "this elf is missing his wife", "our scouts didn't return yet", "this halla is sick, please halp" and "I really want to get married but I need a pelt and the keeper grounded us all", not to mention the main "well we'd help you but go kill that spirit for us first, ok?" 5-10 minutes if that?Reluctant to let you help, as if.

But even those side quests had cinematics and characterization choices.

[Gerudan]

It did? Most of the zones appear to have pretty clear narrative (that you get summary of in the initial access operation screen) and associated quest lines. They have also secondary tasks but that seems like additions rather than replacement, given the main narratives still exist.

 

The "narratives are paper thin and generally only consist of a bunch of enemies that you have to kill or some books or codex entries. Basically everything here is "tell" and no "show" and that is not how games should work. 

 

Codex entries as an addition to flesh out what story parts and cinematics you just saw are okay. Codex entries as the only means to convey story and narration are not. There aren't even cinematic scenes in most areas, just short talks either with an NPC in the area or even only scout Harding: "Well, there are bandits/Venatori/Red Templars in this area, better kill them all". Wow, what a great story, never heard that one before.  

 

Again: The fact that the main story is absolutely separated from these areas means they have to stand on their own, but they can't. This urge to make every game "open world" that has infested parts of the players as well as the developer just ruins one game after another. Outside of like Rockstar and a very few other developer with the necessary experience, time and budget, most of these open world games fail. Even Skyrim had massive problems and almost crumbled under its own size and lack thereof at the same time, making all the cities to small towns with like 50 people but almost 10 of them at the same time. 

 

Exploration can be nice, but the main focus of Bioware games should be the story and the characters. THAT is what they are strong at and those areas, that make up like 80+ percent of the game and play time lack both. It is really weird, honestly. DA:O wasn't perfect, it had a few lengths that were unnecessary, but overall it was mostly spot on with almost everything. The areas were diverse and large enough, the story could have been better, but it worked. The characters were memorable and the combat and skill system worked. Instead of building on it, they tried to release a smaller, cheaper game (maybe Bioware had financial problems?) and cut or changed most of the stuff that worked well in the first game. Then they take the deserved critic and try the exact opposite if DA2, only to go overboard on the other end of the spectrum, making everything too large and unfocused.

 

Maybe they should have just built on DA:O, instead of wanting to cater it to a more casual audience. 

[Uccio]

Let's be honest, how long did it take in DAO to get your journal filled with "find me some ironbark", "this elf is missing his wife", "our scouts didn't return yet", "this halla is sick, please halp" and "I really want to get married but I need a pelt and the keeper grounded us all", not to mention the main "well we'd help you but go kill that spirit for us first, ok?" 5-10 minutes if that?

Reluctant to let you help, as if.

 

Even so, there was a cinematic discussion in all of those cases. With that those quests felt more in story than these fetch quests.

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

i simply refuted your argument that its only one persons opinion.

 

No you didn't. You reinforced what I said. I said you seemed needy for other people to agree with you to validate your opinion and here you're talking about pretty much nothing but that, again. I couldn't care less how many people agree with you, this thread is still about whinging, it's just not likely you'd be the only one doing it.

 

I mean my god look at your thread title. I could literally play any video game on the planet, go to their forums and post "this game is an endless ______" fill in the blank to fit the genre. Tetris: This game is just endless blocks. Super Mario: this game is endless jumping. COD: this game is just endless shooting. And those are some of the most popular games of all time I'm talking about. This thread doesn't even approach a valid complaint, on so many levels.

[tmp7704]

The "narratives are paper thin and generally only consist of a bunch of enemies that you have to kill or some books or codex entries. Basically everything here is "tell" and no "show" and that is not how games should work.

The actual narratives are the reasons behind presence of these enemies, and how your presence and actions affect that. And I really have to disagree with your take how there's no "show" and only "tell". Haven't you seen mages and templars fighting in the Hinterlands, refugees taking shelters whenever they can? Haven't you seen Fairbank's camp and the Freemen in the Emerald Graves? The undead and demons on the Exalted Plains, the Venatori trying to do their **** in the Western Approach, etc and so on? And all sorts of effects their presence have on the zones and their inhabitants? If that's all nothing but "tell" to you then I have to wonder what to you is the "show".

[MrMrPendragon]

Well at least it's endless.

 

More video game time

[Gerudan]

The actual narratives are the reasons behind presence of these enemies, and how your presence and actions affect that. And I really have to disagree with your take how there's no "show" and only "tell". Haven't you seen mages and templars fighting in the Hinterlands, refugees taking shelters whenever they can? Haven't you seen Fairbank's camp and the Freemen in the Emerald Graves? The undead and demons on the Exalted Plains, the Venatori trying to do their **** in the Western Approach, etc and so on? And all sorts of effects their presence have on the zones and their inhabitants? If that's all nothing but "tell" to you then I have to wonder what to you is the "show".

 

There are enemies there is NOT a narrative. A narrative would be a multi stage quest, that would let things develop and change. In the emerald graves you go from enemy camp to enemy camp and just wipe them out. And that's it. 

 

Yeah, I have seen the pathetic fights everywhere that respawn after 5 seconds and I also killed more templer and mages then you would have ever seen in the circle in DA:O. They are so meaningless that they are just substituted after a certain point in the story with other enemies that just stand around waiting to get slaughtered. 

[tmp7704]

There are enemies there is NOT a narrative. A narrative would be a multi stage quest, that would let things develop and change.

What, you mean like dealing with the Templars and apostates in Hinterlands, establishing watch towers and addressing the Redcliffe problem? Investigating the source(s) of issues in Crestwood and resolving them? Pushing the Venatori out of the Western Approach and then having to deal with darkspawn filling the power vacuum? Or is that still not "narrative" enough?

Yeah, I have seen the pathetic fights everywhere that respawn after 5 seconds and I also killed more templer and mages then you would have ever seen in the circle in DA:O. They are so meaningless that they are just substituted after a certain point in the story with other enemies that just stand around waiting to get slaughtered.

Well, so you are demanding "things should develop and change!" but when they do change you just consider the changes "meaningless". So again, what kind of a change would it need to be for you not to dismiss it as either "not 'show'" or "meaningless"?

[Goldark]

While I am enjoying the game, I am actually really bummed out by the way the side content has turned out. 

 

I can only speak for myself and the zones that I have completed (Hinterlands, Storm Coast, Fallow Mire and half of Emerald Graves) so I do not know if things get better in the other zones.  However, of the zones I have played, I am disturbed by the lack of interesting characters to converse with during any and all side missions.

 

For example, couldn't we at least talk to this "Hand of Korth" guy prior to fighting him?  Maybe convince him that it would be in his best interests to join the Inquisition...or maybe challenge him to a 1v1 duel...or maybe trick/bribe him into letting the prisoners go.  I don't know, anything to give the guy some character rather than just another faceless enemy to slaughter.

 

Same with the Hinterlands.  Couldn't we meet with the leader of the mages or templars in the area?  Try to maybe convince them to see reason, or maybe help one side against the other?  Anything other than killing more faceless enemies.

 

In the Storm Coast, you can converse with the Hessarian Bandit leader, but he is just a mindless mook that you end up killing regardless.

 

The devs created such awesome looking zones, but they are undermined by a lack of characters and dialogue.  I was hoping this would add that Bioware flavor (dialogue and choice) to an Elder Scrolls-like world.  This sounded like it could have been an amazing combo, but it hasn't panned out that way.  As crazy as this sounds, I actually think SWTOR does a better job with it's side content than this game.  At least there you get to tell off your opponent before killing them.

 

Yet, I still enjoy the game strictly for it's main questline and the companion dialogue.  Just kind of disappointed because I see the potential that was there to make exploring these vast zones infinitely more exciting and rewarding.

 

Obviously, we all have different tastes, so this will affect all of us to different degrees.  Just so happens it affects my enjoyment quite a bit, hence why I come on here to cry about it.

[Maverick827]

While I am enjoying the game, I am actually really bummed out by the way the side content has turned out.

I can only speak for myself and the zones that I have completed (Hinterlands, Storm Coast, Fallow Mire and half of Emerald Graves) so I do not know if things get better in the other zones. However, of the zones I have played, I am disturbed by the lack of interesting characters to converse with during any and all side missions.

For example, couldn't we at least talk to this "Hand of Korth" guy prior to fighting him? Maybe convince him that it would be in his best interests to join the Inquisition...or maybe challenge him to a 1v1 duel...or maybe trick/bribe him into letting the prisoners go. I don't know, anything to give the guy some character rather than just another faceless enemy to slaughter.

Same with the Hinterlands. Couldn't we meet with the leader of the mages or templars in the area? Try to maybe convince them to see reason, or maybe help one side against the other? Anything other than killing more faceless enemies.

In the Storm Coast, you can converse with the Hessarian Bandit leader, but he is just a mindless mook that you end up killing regardless.

The devs created such awesome looking zones, but they are undermined by a lack of characters and dialogue. I was hoping this would add that Bioware flavor (dialogue and choice) to an Elder Scrolls-like world. This sounded like it could have been an amazing combo, but it hasn't panned out that way. As crazy as this sounds, I actually think SWTOR does a better job with it's side content than this game. At least there you get to tell off your opponent before killing them.

Yet, I still enjoy the game strictly for it's main questline and the companion dialogue. Just kind of disappointed because I see the potential that was there to make exploring these vast zones infinitely more exciting and rewarding.

Obviously, we all have different tastes, so this will affect all of us to different degrees. Just so happens it affects my enjoyment quite a bit, hence why I come on here to cry about it.

Apparently you're supposed to infer all of that missing story in the side quests from a note you read in a cave somewhere. =P

[ironhorse384]

Apparently you're supposed to infer all of that missing story in the side sones from a note you read in a cave somewhere. =P

Yes but first you have to kill six spiders to find the note then kill six spiders that respawned while you were reading the note.

[Yasko75]

I´m middle of my game. I have to admit, those side quests are soooo uninteresting. I dont get why Bioware had to turn this to another SWTOR copy. It just feels tedious and right now i doubt i´ll start another game after this. Without conversations etc. it feels like another MMMPORG or whatever its called, something i´ll allways avoided. I thought that i bought a game like KOTOR, Mass Effect or Dragon Age, instead i got some Warcraft ****. Totally uninteresting. 

[Riverway_Inca]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I did read your OP, Scerene, and I couldn't agree with you more. I've been absent from the forums since November 18th as I didn't want to get spoiled, and I've only just completed my first full playthrough of the game - I took my time with the whole experience so I could really absorb and assess correctly, and boy, by the end of it I feel like crying because of what a tremendous letdown it all was after all that immense hope and hype that I had nurtured. If someone could direct me to the main support thread for fans like myself who were so terribly crushed by how the game turned out and need to commiserate, I'd appreciate it.

 

I didn't keep track of exactly how many fetch quests there were, but what people have been saying about the game basically being a single-player MMO is absolutely true. Moments that involve actual consequential storylines take up, at the most, a quarter of the game. I don't even include companion-related quests because they were so short and insubstantial that they didn't register a deep impression. Most of the game has you traipsing through big, beautiful worlds doing all that mindless stuff that everyone associates with a MMO. If you're looking for complex writing and stories that take varied twists and turns, deep and emotionally engaging relationships with characters (much of which we got with Origins) - you won't find it here.

[RavenousIron]

You do know that fetch quests are, right? Get 10 of this or 15 of that, etc. Sure this game has those (there's only a few) and you know the best part? You don't have to do them if you don't want too. This isn't an MMO where you have too do them because it's part of the overall gameplay and story line. On top of that they more than make up for it by having huge interesting places to explore. They learned from their past mistakes with DA:2. Every area you visit is outstanding, fresh and new, and each area has there own unique quests, dungeons, lore, etc. So to answer your question, no this game is not a endless fetch quest. And if you feel that way, well that's too bad for you. Either skip the quests you don't like or don't play the game at all. Pretty simple.

 

To say that the entire game is nothing but fetch quests is highly misleading.

[ORTesc]

Yes but first you have to kill six spiders to find the note then kill six spiders that respawned while you were reading the note.

 

At least the spiders don't drop from the sky.

[ORTesc]

You do know that fetch quests are, right? Get 10 of this or 15 of that, etc. Sure this game has those (there's only a few)

 

Stopped reading there.

[RavenousIron]

Stopped reading there.

Good.