519 réponses à ce sujet

[lazysuperstar]

The biggest issue is that DAO started as a cRPG, and thats a dead genre now in the AAA industry and it makes people sad. 

 

Notice how a lot of people have no issue with The Witcher even though thats an action RPG? Its because it started that way and it does it well. DA doesn't do it well and each sequel is completely different, as if bioware doesn't know what DA wants to be.

 

Honestly DAO2 with updated combat would have been amazing. People dont play bioware games for open-worlds, its so stupid knowing so much resources are wasted.

 

Why do we have the option of 2 voices? have 1 voice and the money saved hiring a second voice actor to read the same lines could be spent adding more dialogue and more conversation choices and paths instead. 

 

The Witcher would get as much hate if it was owned by EA despite being a very good game. The Witcher has plenty of fetch quests, gloomy-depressing atmosphere with a fixed character. People support it because CD Projekt is an underdog. Or maybe the card.. I meant romance

I do not agree with "People dont play bioware games for open-worlds" statement. Probably for the first time they attempted a semi-open world and it is terrific. Lots like the game world. This is also a result of the overreaction DA2 got. 

 

It was very clear since couple of years that they were very impressed by Skyrim and were trying to implement some of its features. They have done quite well mixing that with a story driven game. I understand DAO started as a cRPG but that is not going to return. There is no point as the fans it caters to probably will never be pleased with anything they deliver. 

 

[old_dawn]

Why do we have the option of 2 voices? have 1 voice and the money saved hiring a second voice actor to read the same lines could be spent adding more dialogue and more conversation choices and paths instead. 

Just to add more variety in character creation. Because one accent can't suit everything or everyone.

 

Of course if we go by what you said they could just completely remove the player character voice just like the DAO days (mute warden).

[Jill Sheperd]

everytime the story repeats: "oh yes we have a lot of story but the locations are little and there's no exploring at all" and "oh yes we have very big locations and cool exploration but i prefer little locations and a lot of story" no one is ever pleased i think that if i would ever be a game developer i would rip my hair off XD 

[ORTesc]

"I want Bioware to go back... " 

 

It's really what all this is about.  People masking nostalgia with complaints of "poor game design" as if they would know the first thing about game design.

 

Nothing "goes back".  You evolve or you go extinct. 

 

The reputation Bioware once had isn't nostalgia, it was a real thing. People wanting them to "go back" to making quality games are people still loyal to this developer that refuse to jump on the "worship Bioware because it's Bioware" bandwagon. I'm not saying that's you, just that it's very easy to pick out those people on this website.

 

Bioware hasn't evolved, it's devoled into a politically correct mess that refuses to even consider feedback because Bioware knows best. When these forums were created it was meant to be a place where fans could speak and discuss ideas with their favorite developer. That doesn't exist today and neither does the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate".

[lazysuperstar]

Bioware hasn't evolved, it's devoled into a politically correct mess that refuses to even consider feedback because Bioware knows best. When these forums were created it was meant to be a place where fans could speak and discuss ideas with their favorite developer. That doesn't exist today and neither does the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate".

 

Tone is sometimes as important as the message and going through the forum, I am not surprised why the developers don't see it worth their time to discuss anything. 

 

They do listen to complaints. They solved many problems that existed in DA2 but people taking advantage of that, vitriolic ranting won't help anyone.. esp those who genuinely have a problem

[Lebanese Dude]

The reputation Bioware once had isn't nostalgia, it was a real thing. People wanting them to "go back" to making quality games are people still loyal to this developer that refuse to jump on the "worship Bioware because it's Bioware" bandwagon. I'm not saying that's you, just that it's very easy to pick out those people on this website.

 

Bioware hasn't evolved, it's devoled into a politically correct mess that refuses to even consider feedback because Bioware knows best. When these forums were created it was meant to be a place where fans could speak and discuss ideas with their favorite developer. That doesn't exist today and neither does the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate".

 

BioWare isn't going to "go back to its roots" to please you and a few other hardcore "fans". It will evolve to accommodate more players and tastes, and that includes those that appreciate their "political correctness". 

[Fandango]

I do not agree with "People dont play bioware games for open-worlds" statement. Probably for the first time they attempted a semi-open world and it is terrific. Lots like the game world. This is also a result of the overreaction DA2 got. 
 
It was very clear since couple of years that they were very impressed by Skyrim and were trying to implement some of its features. They have done quite well mixing that with a story driven game. I understand DAO started as a cRPG but that is not going to return. There is no point as the fans it caters to probably will never be pleased with anything they deliver.

I think Viidicus' statement that people don't play BioWare games for open-worlds is entirely fair - Inquisition is the first Bioware game to have made use of them after all. Question is, does Inquisition benefit from having such a large footprint? I say nay for reasons already stated. YMMV.

As to whether BioWare will ever deliver another game in the vein of DAO - I wouldnt count it out (it was very well received and sold like gangbusters after all)!

In any case, Inquisition is a terrific game regardless and - even as someone who would have preferred something a little less sprawling - would like to congratulate BioWare on crafting a jaw-dropingly beautiful game.

[Lebanese Dude]

Question is, does Inquisition benefit from having such a large footprint? I say nay for reasons already stated.
 

 

Your dislikes aren't necessarily shared with others though.

 

I personally found DAI to have been an improvement over its predecessors. DAO had a lot of problems that were solved in DAI (if not DA2). 

 

Conversely, some things have been reduced in scope, but not everyone holds those points in the same regard as you (and others) do.

 

*shrug*... It's as subjective an opinion as one can have.

[Vapaa]

 

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that many of us simply do not enjoy this kind of gameplay?

 

I enjoy it.

 

Sucks to be you, mate.

[Fandango]

Your dislikes aren't necessarily shared with others though.
I personally found DAI to have been an improvement over its predecessors. DAO had a lot of problems that were solved in DAI (if not DA2). 
 
Conversely, some things have been reduced in scope, but not everyone holds those points in the same regard as you (and others) do.
 
*shrug*... It's as subjective an opinion as one can have.

Sure it's subjective, but can I ask whether you found the repeating of the shard, astrological puzzle and one-line fetch quests to be enjoyable? Moreover, can I ask whether you could conceive of a situation where dropping say two of those large sandbox environments in favour of hand crafting some more story related content might have benefitted the game in a way that would have made you enjoy it more?

[Vapaa]

Moreover, can I ask whether you could conceive of a situation where dropping say two of those large sandbox environments in favour of hand crafting some more story related content might have benefitted the game in a way that would have made you enjoy it more?

 

What does "hand crafted" even means ?

[Massadonious1]

More story content doesn't necessarily mean the story/game would have been better. It could have felt and been considered long, dragged out, pointless, etc., just as easily as some feel it is too short now.

[JWvonGoethe]

A few things people should remember: 

 

1. By the OP's own admission, Inquisition contains 25 hours of cutscene-heavy main quests and companion quests. That's pretty substantial compared to most big-budget games. And yes, there also happens to be an incredible amount of additional content, almost all of it entirety optional.

 

2. Because of the vastness of the in-game world in Inquisition, side-quests have to serve a different purpose than they did in DA:O and DA2. Instead of focusing on providing roleplaying opportunities, they exist primarily to encourage exploration (directing the player to points of interest and areas where there are other side-quests nearby). That makes complete sense from a design perspective and it's something the side-quests accomplish almost flawlessly in Inquisition.

 

3. On top of that, many of the side-quests in Inquisition function perfectly in providing context as to what is going on in a certain area; whether it be mages fighting Templars, refugees requiring assistance or a farm beset with troubles, each conflict features a good number of side-quests which - rather than spell out everything in dialogue - are designed to make the player feel like he or she is stumbling upon a set of thematically related random encounters. To reduce this down to "gather 5 blankets"  (a side quest that serves to link the refugee theme with the mage/Templar fighting) is disingenuous.

 

Oh, and here's the kicker - this is all coming from someone who has repeatedly cited lack of roleplaying opportunities in side-quests as my main problem with the game. My preferences may not have been catered to, but it's still glaringly obvious that the quest design - in terms of setting out to encourage and direct exploration while providing meaningful context about each area - is implemented beautifully. That's something a lot of people here should take into consideration, rather than simply throwing around words like "lazy" and "bad".

[Fandango]

What does "hand crafted" even means ?

Within the context of that exchange, what do you understand it to mean?

[Lebanese Dude]

 

Oh, and here's the kicker - this is all coming from someone who has repeatedly cited lack of roleplaying opportunities in side-quests as my main problem with the game. My preferences may not have been catered to, but it's still glaringly obvious that the quest design - in terms of setting out to encourage and direct exploration while providing meaningful context about each area - is implemented beautifully. That's something a lot of people here should take into consideration, rather than simply throwing around words like "lazy" and "bad".

 

This.

 

Many choose to ignore the fact that developers know what they are creating and all implementations are a conscious effort.

One can have an issue with the implementation of course, but to claim that it was done without any purpose other than to infuriate the consumer is just irrational.

[Fandango]

This.
 
Many choose to ignore the fact that developers know what they are creating and all implementations are a conscious effort.
One can have an issue with the implementation of course, but to claim that it was done without any purpose other than to infuriate the consumer is just irrational.

Dude, those who would say that Inquisition was maliciously - or indeed badly or lazily - put together are best ignored. You really need to stop focusing your attention on the trolls, lest you become one yourself. Mind answering the questions I asked of you above?

[Lebanese Dude]

I ask whether you found the repeating of the shard, astrological puzzle and one-line fetch quests to be enjoyable?

The way you phrase it, it's as though that's entirely what was given. I would not be ecstatic about a game that is constituted of puzzles and deliveries, but that's not the way it is in DAI. Unless you go out of your way to complete a zone, those quests occur intermittently between major quests (story/companion/etc..).

 

While going out to hunt crafting materials after acquiring a new party member, one can help that woman find her ring or something. Why not? The next main quest is available if I wish to pursue it.

 

Those sidequests (not the requisitions though) are there to provide some content in the open world setting. They're there to drive the player and give some context to the exploration aspect of the game. They serve their purpose. Beautiful environments are nice, but that's all they are in the end. You can fill the zones with major story content, but that's way too expensive to do in terms of money and time.

Of course one can simply not care about exploration. That's fine really, but in that case you are choosing to ignore a major aspect of the game. It's your prerogative, so receiving less content is a direct result of your choice to not explore. You still receive a significant amount of story/companion/zone quests that amount to the same amount of time to other BioWare games. (12 main quests, 12 companion quests, 10 zone quest lines, 12 dragons to slay etc...).

 

 Moreover, can I ask whether you could conceive of a situation where dropping say two of those large sandbox environments in favour of hand crafting some more story related content might have benefitted the game in a way that would have made you enjoy it more?

 

Theoretically speaking, I don't. I will always prefer more content over more environments.  

(It's why I loved DA2. I could not give one fig that it was all in Kirkwall and that the maps were all similar. I loved the story. )

 

It doesn't work that way though.

 

If you care for some reading, David Gaider posts a lengthy post (broken down to several pages) on how game writing works here.

 

Basically, they already use up their word budget when developing the actual content of the game ( again, the main / companion / significant dialogue / zone quests), while using what's left to create the ambient quests/dialogue. The word budget is important, as all content is produced as a result of that word budget. You cannot just add to it haphazardly. Quest designs, animations, cutscenes, etc... result from the writing. 

 

David Gaider states that each companion uses up to 2000 lines of dialogue on average. (Even more apparently)

He also says that each main quest around half of that (you must account for permutations and combinations of the quest line).

 

You say each mini-quest requires 1 line. You'd need 2000 of those miniquests to make up for one companion, even more for the main quests. Hell, that's not even a good analogy because you don't have to design (up to) 2000 animations for each line, record each of them, and have them assigned and tested. Those sidequests have only a camera zoom and a voice recording.

 

So as you can see, those side quests are as big as they can be within the constraints of the game development.

[Lebanese Dude]

Dude, those who would say that Inquisition was maliciously - or indeed badly or lazily - put together are best ignored. You really need to stop focusing your attention on the trolls, lest you become one yourself. Mind answering the questions I asked of you above?

 

I just did

[ORTesc]

BioWare isn't going to "go back to its roots" to please you and a few other hardcore "fans". It will evolve to accommodate more players and tastes, and that includes those that appreciate their "political correctness". 

 

Few hardcore fans? Have you checked how well Divinity sold? There is a place in this industry for CRPGs that don't involve mashing your head against a controller. Origins proved that. Divinity is proving that again. Yet for some reason publishers think everything needs to be Call of Duty. Steam users alone out number console players, PC should not be the platform recieving ports.

[keyip]

Few hardcore fans? Have you checked how well Divinity sold? There is a place in this industry for CRPGs that don't involve mashing your head against a controller. Origins proved that. Divinity is proving that again. Yet for some reason publishers think everything needs to be Call of Duty. Steam users alone out number console players, PC should not be the platform recieving ports.

 

I'm not going to argue against this point but I feel something needs to be cleared up here. Everybody was really happy when Divinity sold 160k copies in its... first week was it? BUT, what wasn't widely reported was this included all the early access purchases too. So in actual fact it sold 160k copies over a longer period. It still did very well, but not nearly enough to justify AAA production values imo. Especially considering it took 3 months to sell 500k

[Fandango]

The way you phrase it, it's as though that's entirely what was given. I would not be ecstatic about a game that is constituted of puzzles and deliveries, but that's not the way it is in DAI. Unless you go out of your way to complete a zone, those quests occur intermittently between major quests (story/companion/etc..).
 
While going out to hunt crafting materials after acquiring a new party member, one can help that woman find her ring or something. Why not? The next main quest is available if I wish to pursue it.
 
Those sidequests (not the requisitions though) are there to provide some content in the open world setting. They're there to drive the player and give some context to the exploration aspect of the game. They serve their purpose. Beautiful environments are nice, but that's all they are in the end. You can fill the zones with major story content, but that's way too expensive to do in terms of money and time.
Of course one can simply not care about exploration. That's fine really, but in that case you are choosing to ignore a major aspect of the game. It's your prerogative, so receiving less content is a direct result of your choice to not explore. You still receive a significant amount of story/companion/zone quests that amount to the same amount of time to other BioWare games. (12 main quests, 12 companion quests, 10 zone quest lines, 12 dragons to slay etc...).
 
 
Theoretically speaking, I don't. I will always prefer more content over more environments.
 
It doesn't work that way though.
 
If you care for some reading, David Gaider posts a lengthy post (broken down to several pages) on how game writing works here.
 
Basically, they already use up their word budget when developing the actual content of the game ( again, the main / companion / significant dialogue / zone quests), while using what's left to create the ambient quests/dialogue. The word budget is important, as all content is produced as a result of that word budget. You cannot just add to it haphazardly. Quest designs, animations, cutscenes, etc... result from the writing. 
 
David Gaider states that each companion uses up to 2000 lines of dialogue on average.
He also says that each main quest has even more lines. (you must account for permutations and combinations of the quest line).
 
You say each mini-quest requires 1 line. You'd need 2000 of those miniquests to make up for one companion, even more for the main quests.
 
So as you can see, those side quests are as big as they can be within the constraints of the game development.

Look, I'm not trying to understand things from a development point of view more than I'm looking to offer my thoughts with regards what was good and bad about Inquisition for me and just maybe - if enough people do the same - that feedback nets David a bigger word budget for the next Dragon Age game. Try it!

As for the remainder of your post, I'm just going to have to repeat myself and say again that the sheer size and scope of Inquisition dilutes the things I enjoy about the game in a way that does it (and the great work that went into crafting an engaging cast of characters and beautiful game world) no credit at all.

For me, the game needed a little less sandbox and a touch more story. Again, YMMV.

[Lebanese Dude]

Few hardcore fans? Have you checked how well Divinity sold? There is a place in this industry for CRPGs that don't involve mashing your head against a controller. Origins proved that. Divinity is proving that again. Yet for some reason publishers think everything needs to be Call of Duty. Steam users alone out number console players, PC should not be the platform recieving ports.

 

A simple question.

 

Why must Dragon Age be Divinity?

[Lebanese Dude]

 that feedback nets David a bigger word budget for the next Dragon Age game. Try it!
 

 

This goes without saying even without the feedback.

The next game will have more resources devoted to content as opposed to engine adaptation and such, assuming similar development times.

 

Perhaps then they can make sidequests even better.

[ORTesc]

A simple question.

 

Why must Dragon Age be Divinity?

 

Because you don't name something the "spiritual successor to baldur's gate" and then turn around and make it Call of Duty.