519 réponses à ce sujet

[Nukekitten]

Fetching back the stolen record from the shaper in dao wasn't a waste of time? Doing every single board quest wasn't a waste of time? Fetching back the amulet to guy in the alienage wasn't a waste of time? And I could go on.
For your standard DAO was full of waste of time as well considering how many things you needed to kill or fetch back.
 
People should stop write before thinking what they are writing.

Killing wolves, delivering death notices, finding poisons and forth in DAO. Again, junk quests are part of the world of RPG's.

I will say this, at least in DAI delivering blankets helps the inquisition and part of my goal is to build up the inquisition. In DAO delivering death notices is just dumb since the blight is about to overrun Ferelden and it doesn't serve any of my long term goals in game.

I'm trying to explain where people seem to be coming from.

If you want have a discussion about whether junk quests are a good thing to have in RPGs, then that's a discussion worth having, but it's a different discussion to have as to whether or not a reasonable proportion of the quests in the game are junk quests.

On the more general point: I'd have to point out that the things you mention as examples from previous works of junk quests are things that I've avoided doing whenever I've played RPGs. Because they're boring and pointless. It's the same reason that I've never really enjoyed the Elder Scrolls games – and if we go back to when Oblivion was being released, it got a not insignificant amount of stick for all of the FedEx quests, including such statements as the only good quests ark being that of the Dark Brotherhood.

[Sidney]

I think the perception that the proportion of junk quests in this game are higher or lower than DAO, which is what everyone wants to talk about, is what I am talking about. I ran a list of a bunch if junk quests off the top of my head. I mean real collect this, get this, mark this type stuff I understand people want to lambast these sorts of quests ( and I agree since this is to me all TES games are) but pretending that DAI has junk quests where DAO didn't is another case of that DAO foggy memory so many seem to suffer from.

[ORTesc]

I think the perception that the proportion of junk quests in this game are higher or lower than DAO, which is what everyone wants to talk about, is what I am talking about. I ran a list of a bunch if junk quests off the top of my head. I mean real collect this, get this, mark this type stuff I understand people want to lambast these sorts of quests ( and I agree since this is to me all TES games are) but pretending that DAI has junk quests where DAO didn't is another case of that DAO foggy memory so many seem to suffer from.

 

I actually just finished a play through (after playing through Inquisition). They do exist in Origins, some especially annoying ones like "bring me 10 garnet", but compared to the quality quests with well written dialogue and a cutscene to add context, they're rare and in between. Chanter boards, etc. are optional compared to "do quests to get power to move on the main story". It's the exact opposite with Inquisition. For every single quality quest, there are 5-10 low quality "fetch quests".

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

The reputation Bioware once had isn't nostalgia, it was a real thing. People wanting them to "go back" to making quality games are people still loyal to this developer that refuse to jump on the "worship Bioware because it's Bioware" bandwagon. I'm not saying that's you, just that it's very easy to pick out those people on this website.

 

Bioware hasn't evolved, it's devoled into a politically correct mess that refuses to even consider feedback because Bioware knows best. When these forums were created it was meant to be a place where fans could speak and discuss ideas with their favorite developer. That doesn't exist today and neither does the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate".

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Even if Bioware did communicate directly with their fanbase, where exactly is the constructive feedback? Most posters just come here and whinge about what they don't like, without giving any indication about what they would like. And even if those posters did explicitly state what they would like, the moment Bioware acts on it there will be a whole swarm of new complaints. Video game fans are growing more and more cynical by the day, and expect developers to kotow to their every whim. This leads to those viewing from the outside to just disregard the rants as a bunch of entitled nonsense, because that's exactly what it comes off as. Then you blame those people for not seeing things from your view because they apparently "worship Bioware". Honestly, it's hard to explain how this reasoning even exists, it just sort of does.

 

If this title would've been released 10 years ago it would've been a huge success. Since it was released today, it's still a huge success that happens to be met with the constant whinging and superficial criticism that every new release faces. Criticism is always going to be present, but there is a certain demographic that is going to complain no matter what they receive, and they've only become more empowered by the internet which 10 years ago was still in its infancy. No, I don't think Bioware should listen to those people. They should act to directly avoid it as much as possible, for the betterment of all.

 

I'm still loyal to Bioware because I enjoy their games and I don't mind spending money on them. Anyone who is here who does not share those sentiments, is only harming themselves.

 

As for fetch quests though and the design of DA:I. Open world game play is facilitated by repetitive elements just like every other game design. Many people do enjoy open world games, and those that do are generally willing to accept that it includes lengthy downtime while playing, by the nature of open world games themselves. It seems to be the main complaints are "I'm not doing anything worthwhile since I'm not getting cut scenes every 10 minutes." Again, open world game play, this is as per the advertisement long before the game came out.

[ORTesc]

Can you explain why exactly open world games must have these quests? I mean, surely resources could have been spent on developing higher quality sidequests rather than an additional voice actor per gender. I honestly view this as a throw away argument... mostly because it's exactly what's done in Bioware's mmo. I see it as lazy game development and a tactic used to pad gameplay. Sure it can be defended, possibly even necessary to a degree, but the amount within this game is uncalled for.

 

That said, I don't view paying customers voicing their dislike of a product they purchased as spoiled or entitled. I also don't view those willing to come on here and voice said opinion as wasting their time. The fact is, without negative feedback, entertainment can never improve. Ignoring negative feedback because it's believed to be voiced by a minority of the population does nothing but harm development. Just because it may be a vocal minority doesn't mean others that don't wish to invest the time to let their opinion be heard aren't sharing the same sentiment. The only vocal minority I see are those rushing to defend Bioware no matter what they release while telling the rest of us that we're being spoiled babies.

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

Can you explain why exactly open world games must have these quests? I mean, surely resources could have been spent on developing higher quality sidequests rather than an additional voice actor per gender. I honestly view this as a throw away argument... mostly because it's exactly what's done in Bioware's mmo. I see it as lazy game development and a tactic used to pad gameplay. Sure it can be defended, possibly even necessary to a degree, but the amount within this game is uncalled for.

 

Because otherwise you have a big open world with nothing to do. Your argument is you want Bioware resources to be spent on doing everything bigger and grander, while you have absolutely no idea what their resources actually are or how they were ultimately spent on. MMO's are developed and maintained entirely differently than a single player game, the two are not even comparable in the slightest. So already your arguments are poorly founded and largely illogical, or just you seeing them as "lazy" because the gameplay isn't your thing. Utterly unconvincing.

 

 

That said, I don't view paying customers voicing their dislike of a product they purchased as spoiled or entitled. I also don't view those willing to come on here and voice said opinion as wasting their time. The fact is, without negative feedback, entertainment can never improve. Ignoring negative feedback because it's believed to be voiced by a minority of the population does nothing but harm development. Just because it may be a vocal minority doesn't mean others that don't wish to invest the time to let their opinion be heard aren't sharing the same sentiment. The only vocal minority I see are those rushing to defend Bioware no matter what they release while telling the rest of us that we're being spoiled babies.

 

The entire population of the forums here is a minority within a minority. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are created equal. Some are reasonable and hold views that could potentially be facilitated. Others are inadequate or unrealistic for a number of reasons. But the entitlement comes from the "my opinion matters and must be accommodated" type of mentality that you eluded to. No it really doesn't in the scheme of things, and there's no real reason why it should be accommodated, unless you can show otherwise. That burden is on you and not anyone else.

[Bishamonten]

OP, yes, Bioware has been known for making stories with substance, but they've also been known for making gameplay with substance as well.  Just keep in mind that Bioware was a thing even before Dragon Age Origins, even before Mass Effect.  Many of us have been there since Baldur's Gate, which exhibited great story AND open world.

Why do we have to sacrifice either?  It's a false dichotomy that will only further damage the game...  Instead, we should keep the framework, but replace the filler quests with, as you say, better filler quests, to the point where they don't even feel like filler.

And hell, why not some mod support?  I personally would sacrifice player character voice for modding support if that's the main issue.

[Riven326]

Because otherwise you have a big open world with nothing to do.

So, populate it with quests that aren't **** or reduce the size of the game. What's the point of having this huge open world or "zone" when the bulk of the content is made up of mind numbing fetch quests?

 

And hell, why not some mod support?

Because EA doesn't want competition.

[Bishamonten]

So, populate it with quests that aren't **** or reduce the size of the game. What's the point of having this huge open world or "zone" when the bulk of the content is made up of mind numbing fetch quests?

 

Because EA doesn't want competition.

Why do we have to engage in FALSE DICHOTOMIES???

Why does good story have to be the opposite to big world??

Does no one remember Baldur's Gate?  I really don't understand why we have to make sacrifices, when there is the better option of working in this existing framework and improving on the story and quests.

[Riven326]

Why do we have to engage in FALSE DICHOTOMIES???

Why does good story have to be the opposite to big world??

Does no one remember Baldur's Gate?  I really don't understand why we have to make sacrifices, when there is the better option of working in this existing framework and improving on the story and quests.

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm simply working with the limiting boundaries that appear to be set in stone. That said, I'm of the mind that not every fantasy RPG needs to be an open world epic in order to be interesting.

[Bishamonten]

 

As for fetch quests though and the design of DA:I. Open world game play is facilitated by repetitive elements just like every other game design. Many people do enjoy open world games, and those that do are generally willing to accept that it includes lengthy downtime while playing, by the nature of open world games themselves. It seems to be the main complaints are "I'm not doing anything worthwhile since I'm not getting cut scenes every 10 minutes." Again, open world game play, this is as per the advertisement long before the game came out.

Sorry, but once again, false dichotomy.  Being open world is just a feature, lackluster quests and story are just a common occurrence, but not necessarily an inevitable part of being open world.  Open world does not contradict good story, and neither does it necessarily have to contradict having side quests with substance.  Again I bring up Baldur's gate as bioware's own example.

It seems many people here like to think in the black and white, because it's easier for them to do so.  For me, I just want a good game, and open world is a positive thing.  It is up to the developer as to whether they will fill it with interesting side quests or boiring side quests, or a mixture of both.  But to mistake open world as a synonym for shallow game is just logically wrong.  You are going off based on common occurrences in video games with open world.  In terms of the mmo perspective, I myself am rather curious as to see whether Star Citizen and Everquest Next will completely change that paradigm, and in my opinion, they are on the right track, and if mmo's can do it, then there should be no reason that single player games can't.

[Bishamonten]

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm simply working with the limiting boundaries that appear to be set in stone. That said, I'm of the mind that not every fantasy RPG needs to be an open world epic in order to be interesting.

Not every fantasy rpg needs open world, but for one, it's not like it wasn't bioware's thing in the first place, and for me personally, when Mass Effect was heading down a super linear path, I just couldn't bear playing it a third time.  I only ever replayed it twice.  

A game being linear just has so many red flags attached to it, not to mention that it will be more unfriendly to modders than if the game were more open.  If it's not going to be open world, at least let it have some breathing room.

[Bishamonten]

Because EA doesn't want competition.

Needless to say, EA has shown more than n times that they are clearly not up to the task.  From a financial perspective, it would actually get them more money and less angry people.

[Riven326]

Needless to say, EA has shown more than n times that they are clearly not up to the task.  From a financial perspective, it would actually get them more money and less angry people.

They want to sell everyone overpriced DLC and they don't want to spend money to distribute a mod kit.

[Vox Draco]

I remeber BG 1, 2 and ToB. I remember them to be mostly text-based adventures with very limited presentation through voice-work, dynamic cinematics and other things now a trademark of Bioware. Purists despise these as unnecessary flashy stuff. I like it. I like that they try to tell me a good story throguh these things. For true text-based adventures I am looking forward to Obsidian and co. I hope Bioware stays true to their post-BG-ways, because hardly any other comapny can pull this off.
 

I want diversity in my RPGs...I want the cinematic-like ones we have from Bioware, the sandbox-ones from Bethesda, the nostlagic ones coming from Obsidian. People that love RPGs are living in great times ... they just don't seem to realize it, or are simply never happy and always find soemthing to nitpick

 

If the "New Bioware" isn't your thing, a pity. If you want to dream of "Ye goode olde tymes" .. here is something And fetch-quests ... yeah, almost every quest in an RPG comes down to that one anyway ...so I consider this a rather pointless discussion anyway

 

[Casuist]

Chanter boards, etc. are optional compared to "do quests to get power to move on the main story". It's the exact opposite with Inquisition. For every single quality quest, there are 5-10 low quality "fetch quests".

 

Those quests can scarcely be any more tedious than posting the same false narrative, repeatedly, on an online forum. My not-quite-completionist run ended with an excess of 200 power, and I've heard of many more thorough efforts for which the number was substantially higher. The "fetch" quests are no less optional than in DA:O. They are present in the game to reward exploration if you choose to indulge in it, and to enrich/add power to whatever significant quest line you are following at the time..

[Lebanese Dude]

 

*snip*

 

Yes SCD. 

 

[sch1986]

Few hardcore fans? Have you checked how well Divinity sold? There is a place in this industry for CRPGs that don't involve mashing your head against a controller. Origins proved that. Divinity is proving that again. Yet for some reason publishers think everything needs to be Call of Duty. Steam users alone out number console players, PC should not be the platform recieving ports.

Please don't ever compare any of the DAs to Call of Duty again. They are nothing alike. Call of duty is a recycled game they re-release every year because it is a no fail cash cow.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Il Divo]

Why do we have to engage in FALSE DICHOTOMIES???

Why does good story have to be the opposite to big world??

Does no one remember Baldur's Gate?  I really don't understand why we have to make sacrifices, when there is the better option of working in this existing framework and improving on the story and quests.

 

It comes down to a question of resources, I suspect. 

 

Going back to Baldur's Gate, you weren't spending resources on voice-acting, cinematics, and combat/dialogue both occurred from a top down viewpoint. That's a bit of a resource-saver. 

 

Of course, Baldur's Gate (1 at least), which had a greater emphasis on open world, did have some narrative issues and non-existent character interactions. I actually think DA:I is a (mostly) success story in terms of combining open world and narrative depth.  

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I did actually very much enjoy the game, but this is it's biggest flaw. At one point I realised that I had just been running around one of the open areas for hours (exalted plains, I think) just following quest markers while my mind wandered to completely other things. I had paid no attention at all, yet had apparently completed multiple quests without even having to think about them at all. My reaction was 'this feels like an MMO'. I really feel like there was a huge attempt to redeem their name with DAI and in a lot of ways it was a success, not to mention the open area's were truly lovely. But at a certain point the ancillary content just became mind numbing. I got the same experience with Skyrim: I was initially swept up in the excitement of exploration but this eventually gave way to a feeling of chore-like, empty busywork. Had they pulled off these open area's with engaging, cinematic stories that allowed for variation and role play that tied into the themes of the game it would have been near perfect. I've mentioned it before that I think of Jade Empire's Tien's Landing or the Imperial City when I think of what DAI lacked. 

[Lebanese Dude]

I did actually very much enjoy the game, but this is it's biggest flaw. At one point I realised that I had just been running around one of the open areas for hours (exalted plains, I think) just following quest markers while my mind wandered to completely other things. I had paid no attention at all, yet had apparently completed multiple quests without even having to think about them at all. My reaction was 'this feels like an MMO'. I really feel like there was a huge attempt to redeem their name with DAI and in a lot of ways it was a success, not to mention the open area's were truly lovely. But at a certain point the ancillary content just became mind numbing. I got the same experience with Skyrim: I was initially swept up in the excitement of exploration but this eventually gave way to a feeling of chore-like, empty busywork. Had they pulled off these open area's with engaging, cinematic stories that allowed for variation and role play that tied into the themes of the game it would have been near perfect. I've mentioned it before that I think of Jade Empire's Tien's Landing or the Imperial City when I think of what DAI lacked. 

You were exploring. That's not the province of MMOs. MMOs just use it to fill their worlds.

 

You could have easily continued the main quest. MMOs block your progress way more steeply.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

You were exploring. That's not the province of MMOs. MMOs just use it to fill their worlds.

 

You could have easily continued the main quest. MMOs block your progress way more steeply.

 

I like to make sure I do all the side content. Yes, I could have continued the main quest (and did, after that) but I would have preferred to take my time and split up the main story with large chunks of side content. But it just stopped being enjoyable to me. I did not say 'this game is essentially an offline MMO'. I just said that I was left with that feeling after that experience.

[Aren]

"Why is it so hard for some of you to understand that many of us simply do not enjoy this kind of gameplay?"

 

I can't say that I agree.  61 hours in an I'm loving it and do not find the quests to be "overly fetchy" or pointless filler.  But that's me.  I'm closing rifts, collecting materials to craft better stuff, unlocking forts, etc.  I reminds me of Skyrim (which I sank over 300 hours into and loved every minute), but not in a derivative way.  I have yet to see any open world (semi or seamless) provide a storyline that isn't full of distractions which essentially puts the story in stasis until you extract yourself from the rabbit hole of getting materials to build your home, killing rhinos so you can make a bigger wallet, running tow truck missions, collecting bounties on outlaws, etc.

 

And here's the thing: No one needs to understand why YOU don't like something.  If you don't like it, then fine.  Preferences are subjective and you are entitled to have yours.  I hate Destiny, but people are hooked on it.  C'est la vie.  Me not liking something or liking something shouldn't detract from your hating or loving something and you shouldn't need to have your opinion validated by virtual strangers.

i don't believe so, i want to see the point of view of everyone, be bounded in ourself is useless

[Lebanese Dude]

I like to make sure I do all the side content. Yes, I could have continued the main quest (and did, after that) but I would have preferred to take my time and split up the main story with large chunks of side content. But it just stopped being enjoyable to me. I did not say 'this game is essentially an offline MMO'. I just said that I was left with that feeling after that experience.

 

But...that's what is exactly being done here.

 

You have the core storyline supported by companion/zone storylines, while being split up with a power requirement block to provide some incentive for exploration. You don't have to do it all. If you're bored then move on.

 

I mean...the game is replayable you know? How about you do the main quest + a couple of zones on one character. Then do another playthrough and do a couple of zones on another. I dunno... mix and match.

 

This game isn't tailored for completion on the first playthrough unless you are super dedicated to it. 

You could just explore all the zones and avoid the quests you don't like.

 

You can play the game any way you like. That feeling you're talking about is only the product of your insistence to continue doing what you don't enjoy.

[ioannisdenton]

Somebody mentioned 25 hours of solid content? thats me being generous. Somebody else mentioned vitriolic rants? what difference does it make, the game is out whats done is done and bioware is never going to be the same company it once was, so i dont expect them to care what anybody says. They flat out lied to us in many respects. They said the main story would be approx 50 hours, when infact its 10-15. Somebody posted a video from last years pax and it was full of interesting things, with crestwood and the keeps etc with promises of areas having storylines. They could have implemented those things and dropped the huge and largely pointless maps. How does this make one "hard to please", i thought i was in for a roleplaying experience, just as they promised. I never expected a DAO clone or whatever, but to me even DA2 was more fun to play than DAI. Bioware has never been good at making interesting game mechanics. Battle systems and gameplay have never been their strongest suit, but their storytelling and characters made up for it. DAI lacks many core features of an open world game, including its combat system. You are limited in what you can do and there are very few active abilites so you find yourself spamming the same stuff over and over throughout the entire game. Dai is a mediocre open world game, with a mediocre battle system, and mediocre gameplay. The lack of compelling story segments, which has been biowares strongest suit, can no longer compensate for these shortcomings.

 

Lol and i love how the cheerleading bioware drones act like a very small portion of biowares' player base are displeased when everywhere people are pointing out the same things we do on here, mainly pointless filler quests, mmo type, boring gameplay a tiny main quest etc etc. 

 

it is a -fact- that it was going to be a spiritual successor to BG and going back to their roots.

 

TBH the "vitriolic" nature of my post is mild in comparison to the amount of lies they have been feeding us. The day the start paying -me- almost a 1000 kr to buy a game, is the day i revoke my right to be displeased with lies and misleading bs. Yea they showed gameplay involving fetch quests, but nowhere did they mention its 90% of the game, with a 10 hour main story. Nor did they mention that all the interesting things, stories and "choices" they promised were no longer included.

1) Da2 played alot better than daO. Actually da2 is more fun to play, than Da:O in terms of combat , skills trees many many combinations and a really great nightmare mode. i mention combat since these are actually games right? Don bother mentioning Da2 faults, Da:I fixed them all , by the community's anger issues at  Da2 here in the forums.
2) Da:I is a BLAST to explore. This is always a welcome adition to an rpg.
Remember Me2 when people whined about NO exploration? yeah now that Da:I is FULL of explroration in OBJECTIVELY fantasticaly crafted areas people whine about fetch quests. As if origins or that shallow game named skyrim is not full of fetch quests.

3)About story: da2 was full of story aside the eavesdropping quests, almost every quest was a story quest.  But guess what: people had a problem with that.
3)Been here long enough to see that people are never happy. Give the devs credit for what they have achieved here., then post some feedback.