57 réponses à ce sujet

[Bronson]

Hopefully this will help anyone looking for some Bianca upgrades. It's in a chest in the Arbor Wilds in a small camp as shown on the map.

 

[Matth85]

Hm... My Varric ended the game with Arm III. /facepalm

I see I missed some potential dps there!

[Selea]

I never saw a mage/rogue/2h warrior doing 10k damage with one normal action and my companions all have level 24 items. Archer can do this all the time with the right setup and crafted/found gear. And i mean normal health damage and not buffed barrier or block damage.

 

A DW rogue can do up to 90k damage in 8 seconds (with no focus ability used) if right specced. You cannot do it with an archer, even if you use Thousand Cuts.

Still Archer rogues are the second most damaging class in the game, by far, and they surely have more survivability than DW rogues if these last don't use +guard gear. On AI, then, DW rogues sucks, so if you have a party member it is much better to have an archer. DW rogues are for the PC.

[q5tyhj]

Are you talking about dps in game play or on paper?

 

Archers do insane damage, depending on how they and the party are built and they don't waste as much time out of the fight as a Melee, chugging pots or laying there dead. The dead do zero dps.

 

If you think Archers do "unimpressive damage" you are building them wrong.

Well, no, since I meant relative to the dagger build (and calling a two-to-one ratio relatively unimpressive is clearly not a stretch) and for the class that is ostensibly the DPS class. I can understand the argument, and it may well hold on Nightmare (only have played Normal and Hard so far) where you're dying far more frequently, or with higher-level characters/equipment, but the proof of the pudding is, as they say, in the eating and on Normal and Hard, under level 18, I simply haven't noticed any significant difference in TTK in swapping an archer for an extra mage or visa versa. 

[cukorlol]

A DW rogue can do up to 90k damage in 8 seconds (with no focus ability used) if right specced. You cannot do it with an archer, even if you use Thousand Cuts.
 

 

just an example, its not even extreme

 

do you even know how Thousand cuts+hidden blades masterwork+pincushion work?

[Bronson]

Well, no, since I meant relative to the dagger build (and calling a two-to-one ratio relatively unimpressive is clearly not a stretch) and for the class that is ostensibly the DPS class. I can understand the argument, and it may well hold on Nightmare (only have played Normal and Hard so far) where you're dying far more frequently, or with higher-level characters/equipment, but the proof of the pudding is, as they say, in the eating and on Normal and Hard, under level 18, I simply haven't noticed any significant difference in TTK in swapping an archer for an extra mage or visa versa. 

 

You may have noticed i never debated that Melee Rogues do higher paper numbers than Archers and in game as well but they do suffer from Melee issues that makes them much closer in 'actual' DPS to an Archer than many recognize.

 

My debate with you and the other poster is the claim that "the archers do really unimpressive damage and for a ranged fighter" and "Only time I've ever seen Archer's do impressive damage is when using thousand cuts... everything else is pretty sad compared to a mage, 2h warrior or DW rogue" as that is simply wrong and as Selea posted above "Archer rogues are the second most damaging class in the game, by far"

 

Maybe a lot of people are making their assessments based on what the followers Archers do but if they were to play a PC Archer would see what high single target dps they really do and they are clearly the second highest dps in game.

[Warin]

That isn't true but you do need to set up a party to take advantage of it.

Artificer is better for the group if the other party members benefit from the group bonuses, it's pretty hard to beat the +10% damage and 5% crit group wide. Ontop of this with party crit = reduced CD he can just spam longdraw, wich is awesome DPS. 

[q5tyhj]

You may have noticed i never debated that Melee Rogues do higher paper numbers than Archers and in game as well but they do suffer from Melee issues that makes them much closer in 'actual' DPS to an Archer than many recognize.

 

My debate with you and the other poster is the claim that "the archers do really unimpressive damage and for a ranged fighter" 

Well but not only is what is or is not "unimpressive"  entirely subjective, I was speaking relative to the alternative (dagger build). And as you acknowledge, it does do less damage than the alternative- and I submit that the difference is more substantial at lower levels and on Hard/Normal difficulty (where the "melee issues" are less significant/noticable), as this is what my experience has been so far. I also find it entirely plausible that a player-controlled archer is far more effective, as that's my experience with the Reaver abilities as well- the AI just doesn't handle it very well. 

[Selea]

just an example, its not even extreme

 

do you even know how Thousand cuts+hidden blades masterwork+pincushion work?

 

 

And naturally you are using Thousand Cuts (that btw you can use also with DW with even better effect; there's nothing you can do with an Archer that you cannot do with a DW better).

I repeat: DW rogue can do 90k damage in 8 seconds NOT using a focus skill. Moreover in that instance you were just lucky Hidden Blades procced, and it doesn't always do with a bow (you can apply Hidden Blades on TWO daggers, and actually make it stack with different values so it proc every time, a thing you cannot do with a bow, given the limited masterwork slots).

If I use that strategy with a DW I can kill a Dragon in about 3 seconds, SOLO.

But anyway it doesn't really matter. Both can kill things pretty well so it is more a concern of playstyle. I don't personally care that much if you kill a thing in 3 seconds vs. 5, but since we were talking about DW and Archers I had to point it out.

[cukorlol]

nah, I was replying regarding that little "even if you use thousand cuts" comment

Thousand cuts and pincushion produce retarded damage, to the point that comparing DPS is irrelevant because usually the fight is over when Thousand cuts animation ends.

There were no Hidden Blades proc in the video, as I said that video is nothing from extreme.

Masterwork proc from what I have seen seem to have internal cooldown (not 100% sure though, need to be confirmed from some dedicated testers) but its definitely not about luck from my experience, they proc quite often. Hidden Blades for Thousand cuts is not about the actual damage done from the proc but the pincushion bonus. Check the rising numbers again in the video and imagine you add maxed Mighty offense tonic for 100%crit damage...

 

 

As for DW/Archer discussion I prefer to not compare ( and I do not dare to because of too much theorycrafting) since its melee vs ranged but no doubt the class (Rogue) is the top damage dealer as its meant to be be it DW or Archer.

[Selea]

As for DW/Archer discussion I prefer to not compare ( and I do not dare to because of too much theorycrafting) since its melee vs ranged but no doubt the class (Rogue) is the top damage dealer as its meant to be be it DW or Archer.

 

Apart that, as I said, you can do the same with DW better, this is one instance. Thousand Cuts has 32 seconds cooldown (and when the bug with Flask of Fire will be corrected you could use it only once for some time). The DW three has three 8 seconds skills that do burst damage, plus Deathblow that can be chained forever. Nothing in the Archery tree comes even remotely close to this as the only 8 second skill is Long Shot and it cannot compensate by itself.

Add to this the %flank that is the best stat (since it is the only stat that get calculated before armor) and you can use it much better with a DW rogue and there's simply no comparison for what it concerns possible total damage done on the whole. You need Thousand Cuts to come to the level of damage a DW rogue can do with no focus ability used at all.

It is also common sense that a DW rogue should do more damage than an Archer, elsewhere what point would you have on using a DW over an Archer? If both had the same damage potential then using Archer would be the best option in all circumstances (apart roleplay reasons) given the increased survivability and ease of targeting.

[GhoXen]

I have a Bianca's Arms VI

Damage is good. You just have to find it. 

 

I don't think you have to find it. It's sold in Skyhold. After each story progression, new Bianca upgrades are added to Bonnie's store.

 

In particular, Bianca Arms VI appeared in store for me after...

Spoiler

I finished both "Here Lies the Abyss" and "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts"

[konfeta]

Is the T3 Bianca Arms schematic highest one? I suspect it is, since with Dragonbone it produces damage on par with V (or was it VI?) arms.

[sunnydxmen]

my varric has vi.

[Nightdragon8]

the funny part is I stopped caring on my first playthough KT mage I could pretty much solo everything, only needed cass aroud so she could deal with the knockdowns while I dps with my lightsa... Spirt Sword.

[Kortok]

I despise Sera's personality but gameplay wise on nightmare she simply outclasses Varric.

[l3loodpimp]

just an example, its not even extreme

 

do you even know how Thousand cuts+hidden blades masterwork+pincushion work?

 

Please don't post broken spec on the forum, then Bioware will have to do a proper Q&A plus QC in order to fix all the bug fans love, and keep all the one we do not like in the game. All because peoples don't wanna bring the dead weight Varric in their party.

[GhoXen]

Is the T3 Bianca Arms schematic highest one? I suspect it is, since with Dragonbone it produces damage on par with V (or was it VI?) arms.

 

The best Bianca Arms schematics is the rare III (Enhanced). It actually only increases damage by a couple points compared to regular III, but you can put more materials into the stat slots.

 

Merchant's Bianca Arms VI only gives 89 damage, while Bianca Arms III (Enhanced) with Dragonbone gives 95 damage.

[GhoXen]

Here's a comparison of the best crafted bow versus best crafted Bianca. Since Bianca cannot have a Mastercraft slot, I figured it'd only be fair if the crafted bow uses critical crafting (+10%) for its mastercraft slot.

 

As you can see, while Bianca has slightly more attributes, it has significantly lower weapon damage. 167 vs 140 is going to be pretty big when it comes to ability damage. It's also worth noting that Bianca can actually reach 105% armor penetration, by sacrificing the 14% attack, which is not a great trade since AP has no effect after 100%.

 

[Magma_Axis]

Where do you find tier 2 and 3 Bianca schematics ?

[Shallyah]

The best thing of archers is that besides doing as good or better damage than DW, they do it from a safe 50 feet distance and don't require second by second micromanaging to keep them alive in higher difficulty settings.

Also gotta love Flask of Fire +4x Longshot to clear rifts/creature camps before they even know what hit them, or Full Draw + Stealth clearing the whole game solo. Lame, but overpowered.

[BubbleDncr]

Yea...I hope after this game Bioware just stops with having a companion who will only use one weapon. 2 games of Varric only using Bianca kind of sucks.

[RavenousIron]

Bianca is fantastic and Varric wouldn't be Varric without it. If he's in the next game I hope he still has that beautiful weapon. Varric is a beast.

[Daloowee]

I found Bianca Arms VI in a chest during "What Pride Had Wrought." Not sure if it's random.

[teks]

The enhanced IV is in the north tomb at the hissing wastes. Its pretty easy to grab. Its right next to a camp.