117 réponses à ce sujet

[Z.Z]

The story is as long as the other games.

The main story maybe, but the other games have side stories. DAI? Flower-picking and shard-collecting.
I intentionally avoid using words like "main story" or "main campaign" for a reason, you know.

[Mitchcraft]

If each area had a main quest plotline...that actualy would be amazing D= and I wished skyhold was attacked too

It was attacked, by a man throwing goats at it

[Rolhir]

I think where they went wrong was that there don't seem to really be any quality (obviously matter of opinion) sidequests. As people have mentioned, DAO and DA2 had high quality enough sidequests that you wouldn't even notice much difference between their presenation and that of the main quests. DAI has FANTASTIC main quests; seriously, I cannot stress enough how incredibly good they all have been. However, nothing else in the game comes even remotely close to as good as previous games. I'm 65 hours in and I can't remember a single sidequest that 1) made any emotional impact 2) had a choice 3) had a character that was interesting. Even the companion quests weren't very involved sadly.

 

In contrast, I can list quite a few memorable characters from DAO and DAII that were irrelevant to the main plot and sidequests that actually felt like a side quest rather than content for leveling.

 

And on the note of choice, I'm not sure really what is even going to go into the Keep from DAI....there's a couple choice from the main plot (which were well done), but looking at the amount of stuff from DAO and DAII that could be carried over, there's nowhere near that amount.

 

Personally, I think the issue is that the main quests were done very cinematically but left without smaller pieces to tie it together. DAO and DAII had varying "sizes" of main quests. Some were much smaller in scope and kept the player involved with the story even though nothing major was happening. That's non existent in DAI; you're either exploring Thedas with no direct involvement to the plot or you're doing really cool main story quests. The two do not feel connected.

[JakeLeTDK]

I have a finished ME 1 speed run save that only clock around 8 - 9 hours xD So I don't think DA:I is that short really. I think the problem is it's short compare to the massive amount of time we spend on exploring, dragon hunting, etc... That's why many feel like there's not enough main campaign xD

[ColGali]

There is the actual real time that you need to finish DA:O, which can be measured. And then there is (more importantly) an unmeasurable psichological experience and effect it gives to you. I did not just play DA:O, i experienced it, i lived it, i soked it in. It was so involving, everything in it was so exciting, it feels in my head as if it all took months of actual game time. It simply has that psichological effect somehow. Everything you did in it felt meaningful. It all felt as one journey with clear destination. The trip to deep roads was an experience of a life time. Most of areas visited were involved in main story line and there was clear purpose of visiting them.

 

All in all, DA:I is good game, maybe awesome game, but it did not gave me that magical and unexplainable feel of epicness that DA:O gives. The story depth is simply not there. Like Herkles said, every area you visit and explore needs to be tied to main storyline, it needs to feel important and with a purpose.

 

Dragon fights good though. Most vere exiting.

 

Yes, yes and yes. Seriously I can go out to the forest nearby if I want to explore and enjoy nature in real life. I buy a CRPG mainly because of the story. Its nice to have those enormous areas but the quests there have to be relevant and exciting.

 

What story is present is really good. It had a lot of promise but as it stands the main story is almost totally eclipsed by the massive amount of side content. At times I felt like I was aimlessly exploring just so I could do an hour or two main story quest. 

 

I will admit that I am actually worried about Bioware's future if this is how they plan on doing all there future games. I love exploration, I love side quests that expand on the world and help make the main campaign better. However I could not help but feel like they rushed the main campaign so that they could play with all the side activities. I think that having bigger worlds is great but that is not an excuse to neglect the main storyline especially when the developer is known for having great stories. As a result I never really felt like all the work I put into the games side quests and building up my inquisition really paid off in a pleasing way. When Bioware marketed the game they said they had forty to fifty hours in the main story alone which was flat out lie. A forty hour main storyline would have been amazing for this game.

 

I want to point out that I am not bagging on the side content. Some of the areas were absolutely amazing and a lot of fun to explore. Emprise du Lion was my absolute favorite area to explore in the game. I hope Bioware continues to improve with how they portray open areas and how they implement them into the main themes for the game. In future games however please make sure you make the main storyline satisfying and lengthy. People play these games to build relationships with great characters and to experience amazing stories. 

 

I guess my point is that I hope Bioware spends more time making the main story the main reason people play there games. It should be the pull of the game. The exploration and side quests should be there to support that storyline not eclipse it. I want games that still have the features that make Bioware games great. I will admit that I was afraid with all the talk on open areas and the like that Bioware had forgotten why people play there games to begin with. DAI did little to relieve that fear.

 

 

Thank you bro. I couldn't have said it any better.

[Hagel]

Took me 115 hours on my first playthrough. I would have liked to see one or two more story-missions though. The mage templar conflict ended a bit to quick and the ending should have been a waaaay longer mission than it was. Besides from that I think the story is really good. The mission with the mages in redcliff is the best mission in a dragon age game ever in my opinion. 

[samuelkaine]

The main story maybe, but the other games have side stories. DAI? Flower-picking and shard-collecting.
I intentionally avoid using words like "main story" or "main campaign" for a reason, you know.

 

SPOILERS

 

In DA:I, there is an entirely optional quest to save your soldiers from the Avaar. You learn about Avaar culture, recruit one of their shamans to their cause, and end up having their chieftain dragged before you to be judged where, among numerous options, you can send them to Tevintr, which starts another series of events.

 

There is another quest where you craft an amulet in order to challenge the leader of an ancient cult, the Blades of Hessarian. Upon defeating him in single combat, you gain control of the group, which unlocks missions throughout the rest of the game.

 

Or how about the companion quests where you forge an alliance with the Qunari, meet the characters from the expanded universe and recruit them to your cause, battle a Desire Demon Choice Spirit or get to decide the next Divine?

 

I can only assume that people who come up with the trash played a couple of hours in the Hinterlands and then come on here to attack the game, which is the equivalent of judging DA:O by the quests of Lothering. You know, the gripping stories of finding elfroot and spider glands. 

[Efvie]

SPOILERS

 

In DA:I, there is an entirely optional quest to save your soldiers from the Avaar. You learn about Avaar culture, recruit one of their shamans to their cause, and end up having their chieftain dragged before you to be judged where, among numerous options, you can send them to Tevintr, which starts another series of events.

 

...Of clicking things on a map.

 

...For ephemeral gains of 'influence' of which I had about 100 points left after finishing the main quest.

 

There's a lot of good stuff there. Just that it doesn't quite connect as impactfully as it could have.

[samuelkaine]

...Of clicking things on a map.

 

...For ephemeral gains of 'influence' of which I had about 100 points left after finishing the main quest.

 

There's a lot of good stuff there. Just that it doesn't quite connect as impactfully as it could have.

 

Yeah, clicking things on a map, and D&D is moving bits of pewter around graph paper with the occasional dice roll.

 

If you require an extended cut scene to get your imagination into gear then yeah, DA:I might not be for you. Luckily Square Enix have you covered. 

[Sartoz]

...Of clicking things on a map.

 

...For ephemeral gains of 'influence' of which I had about 100 points left after finishing the main quest.

 

There's a lot of good stuff there. Just that it doesn't quite connect as impactfully as it could have.

Which tells me the game is not balanced properly

 

Perhaps the war map should change colour in areas the Inquisition controls and a different coulour where it has influence. This simple feedback goes a long way...

[Mark of the Dragon]

"Into the Abyss" is better than any quest in Origins or DA2. There certainly wasn't any skimping on quality.

 

I also don't get the length issue. Sure, you can skip several zones, but why would you? If Bioware forced you to kill the dragons in Emprise du Lion to advance the plot using some line about needing dragon souls to forge an artifact to counter him would that have made the game better?

 

The heart of Bioware games is companion interaction and storytelling, and DA:I has that in spades. Whether those stories have a glowy green light saying 'main quest' over them is neither here nor there.

 

Being forced to go to every area destroys the sense of exploration. I do not need to be told to kill dragons to go do it. I also agree that "Here lies the Abyss" (I used the wrong name earlier) is a great quest. Emprise du Lion was the best optional area in the game in my opinion. I did not need cinematics or a main quest to get through the area because it was so well done I felt like it told its own story. It was exciting and I felt like I made a difference as I moved through the region and established campsites.

 

My main problems were one; Emprise du Lion is the only area were I really got the feeling I was making a difference. All the other area's seemed inconsequential (Fallow Mire) or like they were just there for fetch quests. As for the main story it was just really short. Worse was that half the time the cinematics just felt rushed and cut short. 

 

There is a lot of quality story telling in this game. There is also a lot of shoddy story telling. Overall I am impressed with Inquisition especially since this Bioware's first attempt at making a game this big in a long time. I just hope they improve. If Im going to spend over a hundred hours side questing I want areas like Emprise Du Lion to explore.

[Efvie]

Yeah, clicking things on a map, and D&D is moving bits of pewter around graph paper with the occasional dice roll.

 

If you require an extended cut scene to get your imagination into gear then yeah, DA:I might not be for you. Luckily Square Enix have you covered. 

 

There were a couple good War Table storylines… but most of them were just there. They had no consequences. There was no war raging on the map, no power levels, nothing. Why don’t I lose troops in a way that actually affects something? Why don’t I lose resources? Why don’t I lose access to areas I don’t defend? Why aren’t keeps retaken? Why don’t I lose companions in the end fights if my armies aren’t strong enough? Why is there nothing that happens, regardless of what I do on the War Table?

 

I don’t need no-real-cost clickable things on a map if I have to imagine the entire war in my head anyway.

 

And no, it wasn’t that bad. But it could have been so much more.

[Sartoz]

 

 

There is a lot of quality story telling in this game. There is also a lot of shoddy story telling.

Yes, I agree that some of the cut scenes could be re-edited... they looked amateurish..

[Mark of the Dragon]

There were a couple good War Map storylines… but most of them were just there. They had no consequences. There was no war raging on the map, no power levels, nothing. Why don’t I lose troops in a way that actually affects something? Why don’t I lose resources? Why don’t I lose access to areas I don’t defend? Why aren’t keeps retaken? Why don’t I lose companions in the end fights if my armies aren’t strong enough? Why is there nothing that happens, regardless of what I do on the War Map?

 

I don’t need no-real-cost clickable things on a map if I have to imagine the entire war in my head anyway.

 

And no, it wasn’t that bad. But it could have been so much more.

I think that is my biggest problem with this game. It all feels like a bunch of ideas thrown into a game but none are used as well as the could be. The game just feels so disconnected.

 

*SPOILERS*

 

We are suppose to be building an army to take on the great and all powerful threat in the form of the Elder One. A villain who is an ancient magister who broke into the golden city yet I never felt any dread. I was never afraid of losing companions or felt afraid for my life because nothing I did really mattered or connected to anything else. I never even felt like this was a real war because The Elder One only acts against you once and the rest of the time you spend going after him. There is never any feedback or sense of battle because you are the one that initiates everything.

 

Bioware actually showed a demo were red templars attacked your keep in Crestwood about a year back. You had to choose to save the keep or to save the town nearby. It was apparently only a side quest according to them. Quests like that would have been refreshing and made it seem like an actual conflict with an actual villain. It also would have shown the burdens of leadership. Do I save the keep so I can continue protecting the region or do I save the town and hope more danger does not befall it later? Instead that quest was cut.... and replaced by a bunch of fetch quests.

 

I never felt like my Inquisition grew or got stronger and my power never amounted to anything. This is suppose to be war but none of the dangers that war present are ever really shown front in center. The game loses its edge when you know that, no matter how much or little, you prepare none of your companions or your Inquisitor are every put in a compromising situation. None of you companions with the exception of one can even die, and that ones fate is entirely your choice. Yeah there are cases like Haven but all that death really does not mean much if it does not feel personal. I do not need a game where every mission someone I care about is at risk but I do want situations where my decisions have dire consequences for those around me.

 

Imagine if you agree to align with the ancient elves in the temple of mythal but instead of letting you go like he says the leader decides to betray you and attacks one of your companions when you are not paying attention. Imagine just the attack on the Warden's Keep not going so great if you do not have enough men. Maybe if you are not strong enough then when you escape the fade you are unable to recruit or exile the Wardens and instead a whole bunch of the Wardens escape and stay loyal to the Elder One. The Inquisition never knows defeat and that makes the game feel so one dimensional. If the played can never lose or fail there goal then winning does not feel important. Beating the Elder One at the end of the game brought me almost no satisfaction like defeating the Arishock or Loghain.

 

The War Table was the least impactful part of the game. They had some nice written stories but none of it ever impacts the actual game. Even the rewards are usually weak in comparison. It just seemed like a way to acknowledge past choices in a simple and menial way.

[JeffZero]

Well, it ain't ME1 short, but it ain't exactly Xenogears long, either. I just finished the game about 20 minutes ago. My file was 120 hours, which is a whopping 50 more than what I had for Origins, even, but yeah, the majority of it wasn't main quest. Then again, the majority of Origins' file wasn't, either, but Origins had the leg-up what with all the more meaningful side content. Ultimately the games feel to be of approximately comparable quality for me with regard to the things I play games for -- great stories and characters. 

 

I definitely would have preferred to have one more main story mission, especially between "What Pride Had Wrought" and "Doom Upon All The World". I can say the same about most BioWare games, though, because I just... don't want them to end. I agree that there's an imbalance at hand here, OP, and I agree that it is troubling. BioWare's my last real bastion for the sorts of reasons I used to play video games, and I don't want them to keep delivering 150 hours of side content without bolstering the main quest length as well. Or at least, certainly, not making it feel a bit too brief as was the case here. But this isn't strictly a DAI "problem." Would that all those other great games of theirs I love didn't end, either. It's just rather bloody obvious in this case since there's an unending wealth of other stuff, stuff I don't really care for as much by its very nature. (Still pretty, though.)

 

DA2's main story could probably be beaten in a third the time, though, regardless, heh.

 

Anyway, at least all the main quests are of impressive quality. And while there is an odd... pacing... issue with the endgame, I still rather enjoyed it, and especially the epilogue. It felt like Origins again, and that's not wistful nostalgia talking -- I didn't play a Dragon Age game at all until earlier this year, I'm new to this party, and I still say things like that. Inquisition might not be as long as I'd hoped, but it's close enough, and damn if it isn't good at what it has. Here's hoping a full-blown expansion continues its narrative.

[frostajulie]

Maybe we will get some legacy styled DLC to flesh it out a bit.

[Sartoz]

There were a couple good War Map storylines… but most of them were just there. They had no consequences. There was no war raging on the map, no power levels, nothing. Why don’t I lose troops in a way that actually affects something? Why don’t I lose resources? Why don’t I lose access to areas I don’t defend? Why aren’t keeps retaken? Why don’t I lose companions in the end fights if my armies aren’t strong enough? Why is there nothing that happens, regardless of what I do on the War Map?

 

I don’t need no-real-cost clickable things on a map if I have to imagine the entire war in my head anyway.

 

And no, it wasn’t that bad. But it could have been so much more.

Come to think about it, the PR videos did allude to all of that....

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

My main issue is the tension and pacing is off. Thing is it is it wouldn't be that hard to fix, just make sure that one had to use each region
 
So Here is what I would do to fix things. 
 
 
Act 1: Mage-templar war.
 
prologue: start of act 1
hinterlands: as normal
val royaeux: as normal
Storm coast: second part of templars/mages
haven: end of act 1 like normal
 
ACT 2: the gathering storm
skyhold entrence: start of act 2
Western apporach/crestwood: wardens
fallow mire: gaining the avvar
exalted plains: gaining Orlais/ some dalish
Emerald graves:  gainning commoner orlaisins/more dalish
Halrmashral(ball mission): mostly the same, big difference is that it would reference decisons from earlier
skyhold: end act 2: big preparation to fight cory before skyhold is attacked. 
 
ACT 3: fighting a god
skyhold: start of act 3; skyhold at this time would be attacked, defenses needed to save lives. the less lives you save, the harder the battle against cory at the end would be. should be difficult to save everyone but not impossible.
Emprise du lion: fighting the red templars
secret oasis/hissing wastes: fighting the venatori
abore wilds: as normal
haven: a clash of armies, your army against cory's army, both using their army as a destraction so you fight cory one on one. 
skyhold: end of the game celebration
 
Basically just give each region a main quest to follow and the game wold have been so much better.

Yeah, this level of content was sorely needed for the core quest-line. The plot by the end fell completely flat. It was well produced, yes, and the epilogue was great, but a story should be a rhythm, a dance of positives countering negatives, and vice versa, each getting progressively grander, the finale being either the highest, or lowest, depending on the story.

Inquisition ends in a victory, so leading into that final fight the story must put you through the lowest low, or most stressful maybe. The threat of loss is what makes victory a triumph, a relief, a satisfying conclusion: satisfaction. But in the end, there was absolutely nothing between defeating Cory's army and defeating Cory himself. It was a slippery slope with zero threat. We’d just won a victory in the Wilds, now we’re going to win another victory? No matter how grand, without some sort of turmoil or tension answering the first victory, the finale will be limp.

Also, where was that moment from the Stand Together trailer where the principle cast were walking down the stairs at Skyhold, all slow-motion and epic like? That needed to be in the game.

[Draining Dragon]

Welcome to the club.

[Z.Z]

SPOILERS

In DA:I, there is an entirely optional quest to save your soldiers from the Avaar. You learn about Avaar culture, recruit one of their shamans to their cause, and end up having their chieftain dragged before you to be judged where, among numerous options, you can send them to Tevintr, which starts another series of events.

There is another quest where you craft an amulet in order to challenge the leader of an ancient cult, the Blades of Hessarian. Upon defeating him in single combat, you gain control of the group, which unlocks missions throughout the rest of the game.

Or how about the companion quests where you forge an alliance with the Qunari, meet the characters from the expanded universe and recruit them to your cause, battle a Desire Demon Choice Spirit or get to decide the next Divine?

I can only assume that people who come up with the trash played a couple of hours in the Hinterlands and then come on here to attack the game, which is the equivalent of judging DA:O by the quests of Lothering. You know, the gripping stories of finding elfroot and spider glands.

I've done most optional quests. And there is little to no dialogue. In the one you described, you only meet one NPC that actually talks, and then a judgement. That's all.

Companion quests aren't so long, and include quite some kill X, find Y, go Z quests. MMO style.

That's hardly interesting, don't you think?

And you can disagree with me, but it's not fair to assume what I have and have not done. 112 hours into the game and hinterlands only? That's beyond ridiculous, my friend.

[Dashen Thomas]

There is variety of side quests some pretty good but a lot of just fetching. Since I am nowhere near the end of the game I can't yet say if there isn't enough of story driven side quests. I don't mind occasional exploring and even some fetch quests. My favorite Bioware games KotOR and Jade Empire had those and I enjoyed them. What I really dislike though is that in DA:I I need to perform repetitive routine tasks again and again like closing rifts and setting camps in order to gain enough power to 'buy' next Main Story mission. This breaks the narrative rhythm and the story doesn't pull you in it any more.

The better alternative for me would have been some story driven missios in each of the location that you need to solve before going forward. For example Tien's Landing in Jade Empire is a good example of a area with a set of story driven 'minor' missions you need to solve before being able to progress in the main story. It also had some areas to explore and some minor fetch quests that you could do along the way without them becoming annoyance. With this kind of narrative structure I wouldn't mind a bit larger areas with completely optional, explorable content.

[Dubya75]

Gameplay styles vary greatly from one person to the next. One my first playthrough, I spent 70 hours in the game before I even got half way through the main campaign.

 

If you managed to complete the main campaign in such a short time, you have missed a TON of content. Steam-rolling through a game and then criticising it for being too short? Not how the game was intended to be played.

[samuelkaine]

I've done most optional quests. And there is little to no dialogue. In the one you described, you only meet one NPC that actually talks, and then a judgement. That's all.

Companion quests aren't so long, and include quite some kill X, find Y, go Z quests. MMO style.

That's hardly interesting, don't you think?

And you can disagree with me, but it's not fair to assume what I have and have not done. 112 hours into the game and hinterlands only? That's beyond ridiculous, my friend.

 

Again, if you need fully voiced characters or a cut-scene for a quest to seem worthwhile then no, it won't have rocked your boat. We had a silent protagonist in DA:O, didn't undermine it for me. All the old school RPGs were text-based. I felt I was storming an Avaar fortress through a sea of undead. I felt my Inquisition strengthened by a mighty shaman. I felt powerful when I sent a horde of tribesmen to Tevinter, and chuckled at the response of the magisters. "That's all", and it was great.

 

Nothing WoW has ever done has the emotional impact of the scene with Cole, Solas and Varric. The most 'MMO' type I can think of is Vivienne's, where you go to collect the heart of a snowy wyvern. First, this is a fantastic reference, "Bring me the heart of Snow White"! Second, it's to point you to where the Dragon is in the zone. Third, it's to give you the option to betray her. You then get a heart-strings tugging pay off that utterly flips how we see her. 

 

I get to determine my own ending for a good book based in a world I've massively enjoyed for the past 5 years? Yeah, I do think it's interesting. It would be less interesting if you haven't read the Stolen Throne, but if you don't read the canon then of course you won't get all the references.

 

I make the assumption that people haven't left the Hinterlands, because I can't understand how anyone with the imagination and love of the lore to stick with the series this long hasn't been sucked in. Clearly, YMMV. 

[silent-man73]

To me, at least, the point of something like Dragon Age is to see ALL of its content.  I don't much care about multiplayer (and in fact have no intention at this point of participating in it), so I want to wander around the world, meet new people, and DO things.

 

I'm about 18 hours in, and I just finished Hinterlands last night.  I still technically have three quests, but I'm avoiding them right now.  One is to return the cow-thing to its pasture, but while I found it by accident in wandering the foothills, I didn't realize it was a quest objective (quest log was quite full at the time), so I just bypassed it on my way to a rift.

 

Which are the other two things left over: rifts are kicking my ass (repeatedly), such that I'm content leaving the last two pairs of rifts in the Hinterlands alone until I'm 10th level or so (I'm currently 8th).

 

If I can get nearly 20 hours of game play out of the game's first area, then I'm getting my money's worth.

 

On the other hand... if you purchased this game for a console, and you've already finished it, take it in to trade for something else.  I know my local GameStop printed on my receipt that any turn-ins of DAI before December 12 were guaranteed $40 of in-store credit.  That's nearly the price of a brand new game.

[Vidas Secas]

I think the dialogues that you can move your camera took a great deal of the game's personality. Not having this is what brings Bioware games so close to you, you really feel the emotions that are involved. Inquisition is loaded whit those distant dialogues that create a barrier between you and the game.