150 réponses à ce sujet

[rda]

I nearly agreed with everything this guy said about how the game was great, but the ending very disappointing. Not disappointing in an ME3 way...more in the way that the ending seemed like a total rush job. I can't do the article justice though. If you have 5 minutes, it's worth a read.

http://johnswritersb...ge-inquisition/

[Linkenski]

Yeah. It's not a fulfilling or satisfying ending, but it's not a complete disaster like ME3 on the other hand.

[Zered]

A good read. Sadly I share the authors view on the endings.

[Devil's Avocado]

The ending of DA:I was the same as DA:O

 

Killing the big bad, everyone is happy, talk with companions afterward, side show with ambitious rumors. At least DA:I had a movie like after credits bit.

The journey is also no different, you still get the support you need to forward the plot no matter what you do.

 

Honestly the only reason why anyone should be disappointed is that it's the same plot as DA:O with mostly different characters, factions and slightly different McGuiffin threat.

 

That being said, I found the ending satisfactory and interesting because of the meat and lore, it's never really about the ending either way for these kinds of games.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

The ending of DA:I was the same as DA:O

 

Killing the big bad, everyone is happy, talk with companions afterward, side show with ambitious rumors. At least DA:I had a movie like after credits bit.

The journey is also no different, you still get the support you need to forward the plot no matter what you do.

 

Honestly the only reason why anyone should be disappointed is that it's the same plot as DA:O with mostly different characters, factions and slightly different McGuiffin threat.

 

That being said, I found the ending satisfactory and interesting because of the meat and lore, it's never really about the ending either way for these kinds of games.

This. 

[rda]

The ending of DA:I was the same as DA:O
 
Killing the big bad, everyone is happy, talk with companions afterward, side show with ambitious rumors. At least DA:I had a movie like after credits bit.
The journey is also no different, you still get the support you need to forward the plot no matter what you do.
 
Honestly the only reason why anyone should be disappointed is that it's the same plot as DA:O with mostly different characters, factions and slightly different McGuiffin threat.
 
That being said, I found the ending satisfactory and interesting because of the meat and lore, it's never really about the ending either way for these kinds of games.

Out of curiosity, did you read the article? Because if so, The article specifically addresses these points.

[Notho]

I thought the ending was fine. It's setting us up for some great DLCs, I think.

[rda]

I thought the ending was fine. It's setting us up for some great DLCs, I think.

I didn't think the ending was great but certainly share your hope that there will be great DLCs that come out of it.

[Linkenski]

I'm done reading the whole article. The guy wrote some excellent stuff about the ME3 ending fiasco as well back in 2012.

He's right, what can I say? It's just like I thought too. Very anticlimactic and the separate side-stories both in the main quest and the companion quests have no interconnected coherence, in the form of a final battle that checks all your choices, or even just events throughout the game that reflect on outcomes of specific major choices you made.

He's right about Cassandra. Great character, and her quest is nice, but it doesn't mean jack **** to the plot, where it could've if only there'd have been some aftermath dialogue about what happened, and a variable check in the final battle to see if you completed her quest like in Mass Effect 2's suicide mission.

I just hope Bioware sees this. This is really good stuff they can take into consideration when making NextME.

[earymir]

I nearly agreed with everything this guy said about how the game was great, but the ending very disappointing. Not disappointing in an ME3 way...more in the way that the ending seemed like a total rush job. I can't do the article justice though. If you have 5 minutes, it's worth a read.

http://johnswritersb...ge-inquisition/

 

Good article indeed!  I liked the plot a lot, and I liked literally every other boss fight, but the final boss fight and the "choices" were pretty weak.  What's crazy is that these choices *for the world of Thedas* are huuuuuge (Leliana vs. Vivienne as Divine, leader of Orlais... these are all huge!).  They just have almost no effect on your game.  

 

And I didn't realize you had Red Templars attack Haven if you chose templars -.-  I really honestly assumed it would be a huge Venatori attack. 

[Devil's Avocado]

Out of curiosity, did you read the article? Because if so, The article specifically addresses these points.

I did and I still disagree with many of the points they were making. To name an example from each section: 

 

"I never once saw a character’s approval rating come into play. It was a thing that might as well never have existed. Nor did any of the character’s side quests ever come to affect the ending or even the characters themselves."

 

Only alistair and Morrigan had any impact. Leliana, Cass and Viv also fit this category since all three can be divine. 

 

 

"Let’s examine the very first choice we’re given in the game: your race. Go ahead and pick a Qunari. Now you’d think being a huge hulking beast from a strange land that has fought several bloody wars with her Chantry, Cassandra would be a little more suspicious of you than if you’d chosen human or elf for your race. Unfortunately aside from a few minor dialogue changes, Cassandra’s attitude towards you remains static. You’d think it would be harder to win her approval and trust"

 You can say the same for Alistair and a mage yet he's super friendly towards you. The only thing that did change in DA:O was a couple of dialogue options and a few interactions just like DA:I.


 

 

" In theory this presents sweeping and potentially dire consequences for the player. On the one hand, Grey Wardens are Thedas’s only line of defense against another Blight as it’s their mastering of the Darkspawn’s corruption that allows them to kill an Archdemon. Yet on the other hand, it’s that same corruption that allowed them to be twisted to Corypheus’s will.

. So what affect does this choice have on the story?

None."

 

How did siding with the elves vs. the werewolves affect the storyline. It was hinted that the werewolves have trouble controlling their nature yet nothing came of it. Once again it didn't matter.

 

 

"The epilogue for Origins covered every major choice you made in the game and told you the fate of every character you met, which made it infinitely more rewarding than Inquisition’s."

Not true, there were many characters not adressed in DA:O epliogue and for many of the characters that matter we know what happened, they joined the inquisition, I don't need a slide show the tell me that. Given that the inqusition is still around it's safe to say they're still a memeber unless you want to head canon.
 

 

"His Fear Demon ally in the Fade was tougher than him. Most Red Templar mobs were tougher than him. His half dead dragon was tougher than him.

Then we blast him into the ether of the fade, go home and have some drinks with the guys and roll credits."

This is dependent on what level to take him on, but if he was it wouldn't make sense from a lore stand point. This guy was taken out by Hawke and friends so it's stands to reason that he isn't suppose to be hard.

 

 

Skyhold was the perfect setting for the climactic final battle with Corypheus. Defending the walls of the keep you’ve come to love, watching as Morrigan in Dragon form fights the Archdemon in the skies above the fortress, while great siege engines rain down fire and destruction. It would have been every definition of epic

 Only part I did agree with but we've come to expect that gathering resource in a bioware game= we have to apparently physically see those resources in use in a final battle because of DA:O or ME2 (and a little of 3) . I believe bioware wanted skyhold to stick around after game for the sake of making DLC easier. They also allocated the 'impact' towards perks. I can see how the emotion could be drained because of this. The authors whole point centers about this bit of argument but this isn't the 'ending' this is the final battle.

If the author titled this  "The final battle wasn't good and didn't show the impact of my choices" Then I would agree with what I read.

 

[Morroian]

What a great blog article. Everything is 100% on point and is exactly why DAI falls short of what it could have been. Its sad because there is so much good in the game.

 

I keep coming back to everything great about the dragon age series since the original DAO release is in the writing and to a certain extent the cinematics, if you like that. Unfortunately these are surrounded a multitude of poor design decisions. Like the author said the war table is a great idea, possibly the best single design decision in the game but its not used how it should have been. I can only hope that this structure is left for future game enabling them to iterate off it and make the improvements needed.

[DarkSpiral]

The only part of this I can agree with is the fact that the ending isn't quite as satisfying as I wanted it to be.  The choices you make in DA:O have exactly the same kind of effect as they do in DAI.  You get a few different NPCs standing around and some differences in the ambient dialogue.  The difference between the elves and the werewolves at The Battle for Denerim is almost entirely cosmetic.  Does anyone react to your choice when you summon a horde of werewolves into the Alienage to help repel the Darkspawn?  No, they don't.  Shianni doesn't even blink.

 

The companions quest, or the lack of doing them, does not have the kind of effect he's suggesting in this article.  Okay, Sten calls you kadan, I'll give him that.  But the changes in morrigan's demeanor, outside of conversations (all of one) that are a direct result on her personal quest are in the author's head.  It doesn't happen.

 

I suppose I should clarify that it isn't his opinion of DAI I disagree with, but rather than DA:O was handled any differently.  The author has rose-tinted glasses on.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Yeah, he loses me when he pretends that consequences are a huge part of DAO.

 

Pick the mages over the templars? Cool, you have ranged guys instead of melee guys in the final battle. Pick the werewolves over the elves? Cool you have melee guys over ranged guys.

 

Gut the arls son and lose the Landsmeet to Loghain? Cool, you still end up fighting him either way and winning the Landsmeet in the end.

 

Really, the only "real" consequences I can think of in DAO is that by picking the templars over the mages, you make it a little harder to gut Connor, and defiling the Urn makes you have to kill Lelianna and Wynne (and they both end up living anyway, so whatever). 

 

Whereas, in Inquisition, I pick the new Divine, I help create a real and lasting peace between Orlais and Ferelden, and either Morrigan or I are tantamount to a god (and bound to Flemeth, so maybe not a total win there).

 

Was the final fight against Cory a little abrupt? Sure. But by that point you've gotten rid of his mage and templar allies, buried his army under an avalanche, stolen the power of the Well, been running around closing rifts and cutting off his demon armies... he's got nothing LEFT but to just say "**** it" and try to bumrush you in a last ditch effort to kill you. The entire point of the game is that you go around ****** up all his plans and - for all his evilness and power - he can't do **** when plan A goes kaboom, plan B goes kaboom, plan C goes kaboom...

 

And to be frank, at least Cory has motives and a plan.

 

The archdemon's motives were "RAR EVIL" and its plan was "RAR DARKSPAWN SMASH STUFF". So let's not pretend that was the height of complexity, mmmkay?

[Vormaerin]

Because we really want to redo DA:O, Awakening, and NWN yet again?  We did that fight twice in DA:I.   Storming Adamant and Arbor Wilds.

 

Requiring your choices to change the mechanics of the final boss fight is a very limited definition of "Matters."   And, frankly, nothing you do in DA:O changes the final battle except cosmetically.  You have hapless minions in various flavors that are interchangeable.   There's no way to not minions.  And none of them are powerful enough to make a difference.

 

Literally the only difference that matters is which companions you still have.  Which is pretty much the same thing as in DA:I.

 

Actually, all that is really be asked is that there's no break between the Well of Sorrows fighting and dealing with Corypheus.   Fight through his army around the Temple. Station the guys not at the fight somewhere doing something.  Make way past the temple.  Whack his miniboss.   Take him out directly.    Yay.  Battle of Denerim all over again.  Everyone's happy, I guess?

 

They just broke it up with some exposition about Mythal, so now its "underwhelming.".

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I haven't made it to the end. I think that from what I heard of post-ending.. They are set up to do various Sand-box DLC contained in new areas that may flesh out companions, expand on some subjects, and maybe a final DLC to wrap-up Inquisition. Now I can't say anything leading up to the ending but they had to do it in a way that you don't lose anyone so they could attend post-game DLC? Maybe they will do DLC that has no timeframe but it wouldn't make sense to make a DLC that makes it seem like it takes place during the main storyline with Cory as a threat because of everyone already completing the main game. I don't know, just random thoughts.

Edit - It is the end of the main content module but I don't believe its the actual end of Inquisition if you know what I mean.

[Ashagar]

Well you did bury a sizable portion of his army under a mountain at haven and spent the rest of the game foiling his plans such as the army of demons, foiling his attempts at gaining dwarven and elven artifacts for his plans and final breaking what's left of his army before fighting him personally. Honestly he made for a better enemy than mad demon god load bearing boss leading a mindless horde.

[Bladenite1481]

Everyone saying the consequences  of DAO are no better don't understand what he is saying. Read the article again, pay close attention to when he states quite clearly that your decisions don't matter any more in DAO than they do in DAI, that both are on rails. Then understand that DAO hides this underpinning beneath an exterior of FEELING epic, whether or not you are truly epic.

 

That whether or not your decisions sent ripples throughout the universe, they did change something even if it was just what army you sent at the 1hp army of Darkspawn archers, that having a group that believed in you as a person and not a symbol mattered because they marched into a capital to almost certain doom because they believed in you and would follow you anywhere. You get to see them all and even if its just window dressing, it's there. You build an army and a team and you use it, in DAI you build an inquisition and do diddly squat with it. 

 

It's not the story that he is questioning, its the character agency. Your character has almost no effect on the way the game plays, zilch. You are a thing with a mark on your hand and people blindly follow you, that's it. Cory has just as much motives and plan as the Dragon, the difference is the Dragon with the soul of an Old God doesn't sit like a moron and give you a monologue. The only reason you even have a chance is because Riordan sacrifices himself and cuts the dragon's wing. The dragon cut a path straight through Denerim to the capital, you think that was chance? The blight is a perfect scorched earth policy, leaving nothing but carrion and rotting meat behind it's wake, again chance? Even if it is all chance, you feel like you are in danger, after Haven I never felt like Cory had a prayer. The game might as well have ended with a slideshow after you didn't give up. 

[Ashagar]

The difference for one thing only the inquisitor is capable of stopping the elder one from destroying the world while if the wardens had failed other wardens would have slain the arch-demon, much would be lost but it would be stopped eventually with much greater lost as the game makes clear. However if you fail in DAI the world will be destroyed and nothing will stop that.

[Bladenite1481]

The difference for one thing only the inquisitor is capable of stopping the elder one from destroying the world while if the wardens had failed other wardens would have slain the arch-demon, much would be lost but it would be stopped eventually with much greater lost as the game makes clear. However if you fail in DAI the world will be destroyed and nothing will stop that.

Did you play DAO?  Im wondering because ALL the Wardens were killed at Ostagar except those in Orlais who were too far away and didnt know about the Blight because Riordan had been locked away. It was you and Allistair..that's was it until you find Riordan.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Did you play DAO?  Im wondering because ALL the Wardens were killed at Ostagar except those in Orlais who were too far away and didnt know about the Blight because Riordan had been locked away. It was you and Allistair..that's was it until you find Riordan.

 

Did you play DAO? Because, sure, Ferelden was fucked, but Orlais and the Anderfels still had tons of Wardens there to kill the Archdemon, even if you fell.

 

It's not like there's a ton of guys hidden away in some fortress who ALSO have anchors on their hands. You, literally, are the only one that can stop Cory. Unlike in DAO.

[Lyrandori]

I agree with some of the points he brought, but I disagree with some others.

 

What I DO agree with is that ultimately Skyhold should have been the location of the last battle against Corypheus. There should have been some sort of a siege going on with infiltration (or a full invasion) within the walls by the enemies (demons, Venatori, brainwashed-wardens-controlled demons, Red Templars, whatever). And, imagine, we could have had a few cutscenes during such a battle within Skyhold in which you'd get to see some of your party members fighting, or helping to guard a specific spot. I can easily picture in my mind front walls of Skyhold blown to pieces, seeing a bunch of Venatori troops leak in and starting to attack per-positioned Inquisition soldiers (that perhaps we would have placed prior to the last battle because we'd have been warned by Leliana's spies that Cory's army was on its way).

 

The Venatori attack, Inquisition soldiers hold their ground, then suddenly a cutscene comes up showing Iron Bull suddenly jumping from behind Inquisition soldiers, above their heads and landing in the melee swinging his weapon and watching Venatori troops literally fly from the strikes. Then we could see some demon trying to reinforce the Venatori and another cutscene turns towards Cole who engages the demon one on one. Then another cutscene later perhaps seeing one of the Advisers... say Josy being chased by a Red Templar down the great hall only to see an arrow coming out of seemingly nowhere directly through the Templar's head, Josy notices, turns to look behind and the camera shows Leliana with a bow nodding to Josy.

 

I'm just making all this up as I try to imagine how it could have been, what could have happened had BioWare used Skyhold. Any of such cutscenes would have been associated with the party members that you would not have chosen. If you took Iron Bull in your party then the scene I mentioned above instead could have featured Blackwall doing the same thing. If you had Cole then instead perhaps we could have seen Solas engaging that demon. Maybe we could have seen Sera setting ground traps and throwing a dagger or two at some Venatori as they'd try to run up the stairs leading to the main hall. I imagine Morrigan actually transforming on-screen into that dragon, engaging the Red Lyrium one, and as they fight sometimes they collide with the towers of the castle and debris (more like concrete blocks the size of a car) would fall down maybe even squishing a Red Templar Behemoth in the process (in another cutscene).

 

It could have been a magnificent battle, magnitudes greater than Denerim and the Suicide Run put together. Nope, it's true, instead we did have quite the anti-climatic battle. I STILL really enjoyed the game a lot, however. To me, it goes like this now with BioWare games: "As long as it's better than ME3", then I'm fine. It was, so I'm fine with it.

[Zu Long]

I find it interesting that the author believes his choice of killing the Arl's son in Denerim had such an impact- it doesn't. I annihilated that rapist as a city elf, and the Landsmeet was completely on my side. His character wasn't hit hours later by a choice he made, he just did a crappy job getting support at the Landsmeet. It kind of takes the wind out of the article's sails when he's totally wrong about the decision he hoists up on a pedestal.

 

That said, he has a couple points. Skyhold was a missed opportunity and the final battles in ME, DA:O and ME2 are some of the best in gaming precisely because they successfully give the impression of everything you did leading up to that point having an impact. By comparison, DA2 the ending battle feels forced upon you, and even becomes a little nonsensical if you side with the mages ("We're winning, I must use Blood magic to transform and attack all of my friends!") ME3 as he says, is pretty good right until it throws the rest of the game under the bus in favor of stealing Deus Ex's ending.

 

IMO, BIoware should take some advice given by Yahtzee Croshaw, which is to make sure you have a strong beginning and a strong ending, and then work on the stuff in between. It doesn't really feel like they've done that with the last few outings.

 

Still, the fact that the ending isn't much to write home about, for me, doesn't take away from the awesomeness of the rest of the game.

[nt95]

The article is terrific!  The ending had so much potential that was missed. On top of that the entire game has some great points but is lacking in many areas.  The fact that you can finish the game in 15 hours highlights that there is so much content that doesn't matter one bit.

 

However, there is a huge different between ME3 and DAI.  ME3 was a terrific game (and a terrific series of games) until the final 10 minutes.  There are two different fan made endings which make it back into an epic ending and erases the horror of the original ending.  DAI has more issue than just the ending and it would take a LOT of work to fix.

 

DAO:  Epic game, epic ending.  

DAI: meh, hope there's some terrific DLC coming. 

[renfrees]

I thought the ending was fine. It's setting us up for some great DLCs, I think.

If you need a DLC to fix or make sense of major part of the game, there's something wrong with it.