150 réponses à ce sujet

[DemGeth]

Yeah I like da:o too but yeah nostalgia covers a lot of blemishes for a lot of people.

[RepHope]

If you need a DLC to fix or make sense of major part of the game, there's something wrong with it.

This. When I finish a game, my first thought should not be "Gee I sure hope we get some DLC to make this ending less disappointing".

DA:O ending was great not because it factored your choices more into the actual final battle. It didn't, although it's epilogue slides were leagues about DA:I. What DA:O was the illusion of it all mattering. Sure your forces didn't ACTUALLY impact the battle, but you could still call them and see them in action. You never see your forces actually play a meaningful role in the game, Skyhold never really matters, hell it's not even fully renovated by the end.

If there had been a final battle like the author describes it would've gone a long way to making DA:I's final fight feel more meaningful. Seeing your Grey Wardens push back darkspawn while Mages rained spells or Templars defended the gates would've helped give the ending an epic feel it sorely lacks. Just SEEING them would've meant a lot.

Another thing the game suffers from is the lack of development for Cory. We never really get to talk to him, probe him about his journey to the Black City, GET TO KNOW HIM. Do we even know why he chose to kill the Divine, why her specifically wouldn't anyone do? Instead he's just this "badass" dark spawn who can monologue pretty well, but ultimately fails to really intimidate, especially considering how weak he is in the finale.

We saw Loghain interact a ton, both in cutscenes and in convos. That helped develop him, development Cory never gets, which sucks because Cory is actually pretty damn interesting considering his background and his significance due to how his actions have impacted the theology, culture and history of Thedas.

[Morroian]

That whether or not your decisions sent ripples throughout the universe, they did change something even if it was just what army you sent at the 1hp army of Darkspawn archers, that having a group that believed in you as a person and not a symbol mattered because they marched into a capital to almost certain doom because they believed in you and would follow you anywhere. You get to see them all and even if its just window dressing, it's there. You build an army and a team and you use it, in DAI you build an inquisition and do diddly squat with it. 

 

It's not the story that he is questioning, its the character agency. Your character has almost no effect on the way the game plays, zilch. 

 

Yep DAO may have been cosmetic but at least it gave the player a feeling of agency even right at the end. And even if you leave aside DAO the general point is still valid that there are no ripple effects for anything in DAI really, as opposed to say FO: New Vegas. Obsidian have designer who understand those impacts and design them into games. 

[Alien1099]

"When I wrote my breakdown of Mass Effect 3’s ending debacle, I took several days to properly organize my thoughts and make sure everything I was saying made sense. By contrast, when I wrote my critique of Dragon Age: Inquisition’s ending, it was a stream of consciousness straight from my raging, bitterly disappointed mind onto the vast wastes of the internet."

Somebody needs to stop making a video game out to be more than it really is and getting so emotionally invested in it. Sure I was disappointed with ME3's ending. DA:I didn't have the best ending ever but it was ok. Chopper Reed would tell people to harden the **** up if he were still alive.

 

DA:I wasn't perfect by any means but it was a good game that I enjoyed quite a bit and spent a very large number of hours playing. Sure there are areas of the game that could have been improved, including the ending, but lets not be a drama queen when crying about our "disappointments."

[Chiramu]

Everyone can write a good beginning but writing a good middle and end is harder. 

 

The introduction to Inquisition was very good, but in the middle... the game really falls on its' face. 

[diagorias]

Firstly, the epilogue of DAO was a lot bigger, which lead to too many variables to work with. That is why the epilogue of DAI is smaller and more vague, there is more ground to expand the story upon, so they aren't cornering themselves in.

 

For the rest are their quite a few grave errors in the article. Big spoilers are coming as examples.

 

He states that it doesn't matter whether you choose the mages or the templars. And he even states that if you chose the templars, red templars will attack you in Haven, which is simply not true. When you go for Therinfall, haven will be attacked by Venatori. If you go for Redcliffe, Haven will be attacked by red templars. Also during the battle of the well, depending on your choices you will see on the way to the temple either mages or templars fighting with you. Also you see wardens fighting with you if you decided to allow them to stay as part of the inquisition.

 

Furthermore he states that areas have no influence outside of the area, which is untrue as well. And that War Table missions have no influence outside the War Table, also untrue. If you side with the mages at the start (another consequence), you will get war table missions about Samson, the leader of the red templars. If you decide to do those missions, you will eventually get a talk with Cullen about it (after you find letters in Emprise du Lion about Samson, outside an area influence?). If you freed the mines, he states something like, guess where his deposits are: the mine you already freed, if you haven't, he doesn't state that (another outside area influence). If you complete the whole quest chain, you get during the Well of Souls mission the possibility to weaken Samson, before you fight him (if that isn't consequence and gameplay combined, I dunno). If you go with the templars, you get a likewise chain for the leader of the venatori (and even more interesting option during the fight with that leader).

 

Another area influencing outside of the area, if you completed the mainquest of the Crestwood, scout Harding mentions that during the introductory talk in Crestwood. She says something like: Undead, but you already know how to deal with them, since you did so in Crestwood.

 

The point that whether you choose to drink or let Morrigan drink the Well of Souls has little consequence aside from the dragon taming (which seemed really big to me, tbh) is a bit shortsighted. You were basically at the end of the game and there is quite the chance that it has lasting effects for future games/DLCs/Expansions. Imagine how different the inquisition would turn up depending if the inquisitor is bound to Flemeth (or the Dread Wolf) or not, this is an assumption from my side though.

 

About the point that Skyhold should be besieged, well, aside from the fact that Corypheus lost basically all his forces, Skyhold is as defensable as it can get, hidden between mountains, with magic strengthened walls (from the old elven ruins underneath it) and without any good accesspoint to it. Seems like suicide to me.

 

Furthermore Corypheus his strenght lay in his dragon and his ability to survive death, without those, well, he is just a strong magister. The Aspect of Nightmare on the other hand was in a realm of his own creation, strengthened by the terrors of many, many people. Storywise it would make sense that the fight would be harder.

 

There were a lót of consequences of deeds in previous games, story, war table and areas. Those consequences were in the details though, sometimes you skipped by it, sometimes you totally missed them, but they are there.

 

And again, about the epilogue, they just need more freedom for future games/DLCs. (Fallout got it pretty easy in that aspect, since every Fallout is in another area, there is no risk of conflicting the epilogue with a new game)

[Arl Raylen]

If you need a DLC to fix or make sense of major part of the game, there's something wrong with it.

 

Agreed...Witch Hunt, Legacy, Citadel, heck even the final DLC to ME2 can be considering a capping off of the ending. There's a fine line between using DLC to make up for the main games inadequacies and using DLC to add to the experience, and that can be hard to judge. But there's no question game companies (especially those under the yoke of companies like EA) go into production with the intent of releasing DLC, which makes the release of truly completed games like KOTOR, Mass Effect, and Jade Empire a thing of the past.

[Ashagar]

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I think in the context of the game's story the middle and end works rather well given the context of the game's story. A big Climatic battle with armies clashing like DAO just doesn't fit with the story and what it was building up to.

[Arl Raylen]

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I think in the context of the game's story the middle and end works rather well given the context of the game's story. A big Climatic battle with armies clashing like DAO just doesn't fit with the story and what it was building up to.

 

Actually I don't think it made much sense. Corypheus was built up as this all-powerful figure, and yet we're railroaded into facing him 1 on 4? I think the game was really building up to something like the suicide mission in ME2, where Cory is going crazy trying to take one last blow at the Inquisition, and you have to spend all your remaining forces and potentially lives of your companions in finally defeating him.

 

But what we actually got, which was just Cory having a tantrum and raising some rocks into the sky was a bit anticlimactic.

[LolaLei]

It's a shame the end battle fell so short. When our hand wound stopped killing us upon stabilising the breach (during the prologue) and then subsequently closing it before even hitting mid-game causing the attack on Haven, I figured that the final battle would need to be pretty epic to top that... didn't think it would fall so short in those final two quests though, it was very abrupt.

[diagorias]

Another thing the game suffers from is the lack of development for Cory. We never really get to talk to him, probe him about his journey to the Black City, GET TO KNOW HIM. Do we even know why he chose to kill the Divine, why her specifically wouldn't anyone do? Instead he's just this "badass" dark spawn who can monologue pretty well, but ultimately fails to really intimidate, especially considering how weak he is in the finale.

 

Well, he isn't really interested in talking to you. And why would he, he considers himself far superior in knowledge, skill, power and so on to anyone else, no point in wasting time there. And he probably choose the Divine, since that would cause the most chaos. Without the inquisitor interfering, templars would be blaming and fighting mages, the chantry would be broken, Orlais would be split up. His Aspect of Nightmare would grow insanely strong and enter the world via the ritual of the Wardens, and so on. The divine was the one stabilizing factor and person, she got the templars and mages as far as to meet. It may even be possible that she manufactored the truce between Celene, Gaspard and Briala, altough of that I am not sure.

[Bladenite1481]

Firstly, the epilogue of DAO was a lot bigger, which lead to too many variables to work with. That is why the epilogue of DAI is smaller and more vague, there is more ground to expand the story upon, so they aren't cornering themselves in.

 

For the rest are their quite a few grave errors in the article. Big spoilers are coming as examples.

 

He states that it doesn't matter whether you choose the mages or the templars. And he even states that if you chose the templars, red templars will attack you in Haven, which is simply not true. When you go for Therinfall, haven will be attacked by Venatori. If you go for Redcliffe, Haven will be attacked by red templars. Also during the battle of the well, depending on your choices you will see on the way to the temple either mages or templars fighting with you. Also you see wardens fighting with you if you decided to allow them to stay as part of the inquisition.

 

Furthermore he states that areas have no influence outside of the area, which is untrue as well. And that War Table missions have no influence outside the War Table, also untrue. If you side with the mages at the start (another consequence), you will get war table missions about Samson, the leader of the red templars. If you decide to do those missions, you will eventually get a talk with Cullen about it (after you find letters in Emprise du Lion about Samson, outside an area influence?). If you freed the mines, he states something like, guess where his deposits are: the mine you already freed, if you haven't, he doesn't state that (another outside area influence). If you complete the whole quest chain, you get during the Well of Souls mission the possibility to weaken Samson, before you fight him (if that isn't consequence and gameplay combined, I dunno). If you go with the templars, you get a likewise chain for the leader of the venatori (and even more interesting option during the fight with that leader).

 

Another area influencing outside of the area, if you completed the mainquest of the Crestwood, scout Harding mentions that during the introductory talk in Crestwood. She says something like: Undead, but you already know how to deal with them, since you did so in Crestwood.

 

The point that whether you choose to drink or let Morrigan drink the Well of Souls has little consequence aside from the dragon taming (which seemed really big to me, tbh) is a bit shortsighted. You were basically at the end of the game and there is quite the chance that it has lasting effects for future games/DLCs/Expansions. Imagine how different the inquisition would turn up depending if the inquisitor is bound to Flemeth (or the Dread Wolf) or not, this is an assumption from my side though.

 

About the point that Skyhold should be besieged, well, aside from the fact that Corypheus lost basically all his forces, Skyhold is as defensable as it can get, hidden between mountains, with magic strengthened walls (from the old elven ruins underneath it) and without any good accesspoint to it. Seems like suicide to me.

 

Furthermore Corypheus his strenght lay in his dragon and his ability to survive death, without those, well, he is just a strong magister. The Aspect of Nightmare on the other hand was in a realm of his own creation, strengthened by the terrors of many, many people. Storywise it would make sense that the fight would be harder.

 

There were a lót of consequences of deeds in previous games, story, war table and areas. Those consequences were in the details though, sometimes you skipped by it, sometimes you totally missed them, but they are there.

 

And again, about the epilogue, they just need more freedom for future games/DLCs. (Fallout got it pretty easy in that aspect, since every Fallout is in another area, there is no risk of conflicting the epilogue with a new game)

Whether you choose mages or Templars, you still fight Red Templars as the main force along with Vents for the rest of the game. 

 

For most of what you are talking about, you mention lines of dialogue. He means affecting the way you play the game, even if its only visual. I will give you the final battle at Arbor Wilds and I was even feeling a little uplifted as I imagined my guys clearing the path and the rest following with me..but no..its just you running through a very trite temple and through a ritual that has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. How the heck is that supposed to be reminiscent of an ancient magical race of eternally vigilant elves? Like apparently Mythal wants you to play hopscotch over her lawn in order to see the well..

 

The problem with it for many and it is subjective is that nothing past Haven felt epic. It felt like Cory had already lost, you were just going through the motions. He gave you his best, he failed to kill you..that was it, now all you had to do was find him..yay game over. 

[diagorias]

Actually I don't think it made much sense. Corypheus was built up as this all-powerful figure, and yet we're railroaded into facing him 1 on 4? I think the game was really building up to something like the suicide mission in ME2, where Cory is going crazy trying to take one last blow at the Inquisition, and you have to spend all your remaining forces and potentially lives of your companions in finally defeating him.

 

But what we actually got, which was just Cory having a tantrum and raising some rocks into the sky was a bit anticlimactic.

Like I said before, his power lay in his seemingly invincibility. Aside from his massive army in the make (venatori with redcliffe mages, the wardens all inslaved and the all powerful Fear Demon, a great army of red templars) and his dragon, he is "just" a powerful (blighted) magister.

The point of the whole game was diminishing his power and increasing your own (you and your mark became stronger after each rift you closed). If you would have been diminishing his power and his army the whole game, and you would have one gigantic and close battle at the end, it simply wouldn't make sense. How little would you have accomplished the whole game then?

[Ashagar]

Actually I don't think it made much sense. Corypheus was built up as this all-powerful figure, and yet we're railroaded into facing him 1 on 4? I think the game was really building up to something like the suicide mission in ME2, where Cory is going crazy trying to take one last blow at the Inquisition, and you have to spend all your remaining forces and potentially lives of your companions in finally defeating him.

 

But what we actually got, which was just Cory having a tantrum and raising some rocks into the sky was a bit anticlimactic.

 

I disagree, you spend the later part of the game is wiping out the reminder of Corypheus forces that didn't get wiped out when you brought a mountain on top of them at haven and foiling any attempt to gain more like lets say a army of demons then effectively wiped out any remaining forces leaving you with a full army while he has nothing left and of course preventing him from getting elven and dwarven artifacts that could make him stronger.

 

Yes the end battle could have been tougher but the point was always that Corypheus's goal was godhood which is what he cares about not the Inquisition and it makes sense he would attack where the veil is weakest, the site of the recently sealed breach not Skyhold which is implied in game to have some sort of protection.

 

[diagorias]

Whether you choose mages or Templars, you still fight Red Templars as the main force along with Vents for the rest of the game. 

 

 

True, Therinfall was their main base, but you didn't kill every templar, just like that. What is more important is, is that there were much less red templars, if you decided to side with the templars. The red templars were already cultivating and mining in Emprise du Lion, getting giants in the Emerald graves and transporting and mining in the Storm Coast. And like I said, he states that if you side with the templars, red templars still attack you in Haven, and that is definitely not true, and that is definitely visual, to me at least.

[Bladenite1481]

I disagree, you spend the later part of the game is wiping out the reminder of Corypheus forces that didn't get wiped out when you brought a mountain on top of them at haven and foiling any attempt to gain more like lets say a army of demons then effectively wiped out any remaining forces leaving you with a full army while he has nothing left and of course preventing him from getting elven and dwarven artifacts that could make him stronger.

 

Yes the end battle could have been tougher but the point was always that Corypheus's goal was godhood which is what he cares about not the Inquisition and it makes sense he would attack where the veil is weakest, the site of the recently sealed breach not Skyhold which is implied in game to have some sort of protection.

Story be damned, it would have been AWESOME!! Awesome to have a full scale siege attempted on Skyhold then if you built it right repel him and THEN go after him like the arrogant fool he is while he is licking his wounds. 

[Tremere]

*chuckles* Judging by the article presented, we now know what lessons they took from Skyrim.

"Tell a bunch of (half-assed) stories that don't mean anything, except in and of themselves."

[renfrees]

Bioware should really recall how to create a memorable and intimidating villain. Like Jon Irenicus, for example. Here, Corypheus shows for 2 minutes to throw a tantrum, then disappears 'till the very end. Meanwhile we beat him at every turn with blunt power of our organisation, no wit required. Now, remind me why should I fear him besides that's what everybody around me claim. But that's what it is - a shallow words that alone should convince me, while all I see is incompetent megalomaniac. Why should I even remember this pathetic creature?

 

Oh, and I want an explanation how's that pile of rocks he raised hasn't fallen down, when we sent him into the Fade?

[Leoroc]

I have to agree with the article wholeheartedly. It seems like Bioware (and Obsidian too) really need to do the beginning and ending first and then work on the middle stuff so we can stop having rushed endings.

[RepHope]

Well, he isn't really interested in talking to you. And why would he, he considers himself far superior in knowledge, skill, power and so on to anyone else, no point in wasting time there. And he probably choose the Divine, since that would cause the most chaos. Without the inquisitor interfering, templars would be blaming and fighting mages, the chantry would be broken, Orlais would be split up. His Aspect of Nightmare would grow insanely strong and enter the world via the ritual of the Wardens, and so on. The divine was the one stabilizing factor and person, she got the templars and mages as far as to meet. It may even be possible that she manufactored the truce between Celene, Gaspard and Briala, altough of that I am not sure.

At first sure, I get that he's way too arrogant to talk. The way we keep unraveling his plans though, and he even refers to us as a rival, although an unknowing one, made me think latter on we would get to talk to him. He'd be trying to understand us, to gauge our plans, and be better equipped to deal with us. Instead he's like the arch demon, just an obstacle in our way, a shame given his backstory.

[robertthebard]

That was the longest "My Warden wasn't the hero, so the game sucked" post I have ever read.

[Leoroc]

That was the longest "My Warden wasn't the hero, so the game sucked" post I have ever read.

I think you are in the wrong thread, no one here is talking about the protagonist at all.

[robertthebard]

I think you are in the wrong thread, no one here is talking about the protagonist at all.

This isn't the Origins Inquisition review thread? Strange, I've never had the forum move me from a topic before.

[Arl Raylen]

I disagree, you spend the later part of the game is wiping out the reminder of Corypheus forces that didn't get wiped out when you brought a mountain on top of them at haven and foiling any attempt to gain more like lets say a army of demons then effectively wiped out any remaining forces leaving you with a full army while he has nothing left and of course preventing him from getting elven and dwarven artifacts that could make him stronger.

 

Yes the end battle could have been tougher but the point was always that Corypheus's goal was godhood which is what he cares about not the Inquisition and it makes sense he would attack where the veil is weakest, the site of the recently sealed breach not Skyhold which is implied in game to have some sort of protection.

 

I think we're talking about different things here. Yes, the main story was about weakening Corypheus. No, that doesn't mean the ending HAD to go down like it did.

 

Solas made a big point of saying that Corypheus would do something crazy after the Arbor Wilds. Crazy to me means calling in every single soldier left under his commands and throwing them at our walls. Having the Dragon ravage our keep. Floating down and killing a few of our companions who we had low approval with. Simple stuff like that that still demonstrates that we've put him in a corner, while also maintaining how dangerous he was.

[SomberXIII]

Opinion as splitted as ever.