114 réponses à ce sujet

[log1x_dr4g0n]

IronManik wrote...

ahahahha then he replies with a paragraph that he used in the other thread. I guess even trolls run out of stuff to say eventually

Since when do they ever have "stuff" to begin with?

[IronManik]

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

[AngryTigerP]

Hells_eAngel wrote...

Like I said, get over yourselves, both of you. There is zero multiplayer in this game. Please, tell me, how in the hell does it bother you, if you were going to have CE either way, and play it, by yourself, since there is (again) NO MULTIPLAYER, meaning no one would ever see you in that armor outside of spectators of your tv. And you wouldn't see anyone that "stole" the armor, ever, in your life, in game or online.

I'm just fascinated that it bothers you that much that some folk downloaded it when they had the chance, thats all. Please elaborate why it strokes your ego so badly.


P.S Lol@Politics.

So "Silent Friend" seems to be ignored by everyone.

He (she?) has a point.

Purse on ground. Lady trying on shoes. Some folks grab it when they had the chance, that's all. Please tell me why that's at all ethical.

And unfortunately for you, you seem to assume that I'm one of those people who got all the achievements for Halo 3 so that I could show off my cool katana. I don't care about what other people think. I don't care if it was a crappy in-game item. It remains something that belonged to people who willingly gave extra money to Bioware. Opportunity does not inevitably mean permission. Just because you CAN snatch a $10 bill hanging out of some guy's pocket in front of you without them noticing doesn't mean that it's the ethically correct thing to do.

Again, you seem to think theft is fine so long as you aren't being directly affected, so I guess you don't care if someone stole that bill.

[Silent Friend]

log1x_dr4g0n wrote...

IronManik wrote...



ahahahha then he replies with a paragraph that he used in the other thread. I guess even trolls run out of stuff to say eventually

Since when do they ever have "stuff" to begin with?

- You two are the trolls here. I've actually contributed valid input with viable reasoning and logic to support it whereas you're rebuttal consists of a single word: "troll". It's interesting to note often how the supposed "troll" is capable of putting up a far more well-constructed argument for his/her position, yet the one who yells "troll" is capable of doing little else but yelling.



I suspect by your attitudes that you're also two theives who don't like being called for what you are, whether or not you acknowledge it is irrelevant - you are thieves, and morally corrupt.

[AngryTigerP]

Massadonious wrote...

I heard if you "steal" Day one DLC, you'll get banished to the seventh circle of hell when you die, right next to the sodomites and blasphemers.

CE (you know, cost people more money) DLC =/= Day One DLC.

But you know that, of course.

[Fastin]

Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse.

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.

The simple fact of the matter is that people who downloaded the CE content despite not having paid for it are theives. I personally believe they should be criminally prosecuted but the likliehood is apparently slim.

It isn't a simple fact it's simply your believe as you stated in the second sentance.

Modifié par Fastin, 26 janvier 2010 - 08:41 .

[AngryTigerP]

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

[AngryTigerP]

Fastin wrote...

Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse.

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy
would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape
or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is
it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.

Then I guess this is where we diverge. You want to fly through loopholes. I want to address ethical concerns. If you are so dismissive as that, that 'well, the law says...", then we are on completely different wavelengths.

[IronManik]

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

[Fastin]

AngryTigerP wrote...

So "Silent Friend" seems to be ignored by everyone.

He (she?) has a point.

Purse on ground. Lady trying on shoes. Some folks grab it when they had the chance, that's all. Please tell me why that's at all ethical.

Again, you seem to think theft is fine so long as you aren't being directly affected, so I guess you don't care if someone stole that bill.

No there isn't a point.  The analogy is completely wrong as it implies that consent wasn't given to take the item.  Consent was given as it was clearly marked FREE.  Again something being ethical or moral has nothing to do with legality.

[AngryTigerP]

[quote]AngryTigerP wrote...

[quote]Fastin wrote...

[quote]Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse. [/quote]

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy
would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape
or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is
it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.[/quote]

Oh, and your counterargument also incorrectly fits the argument. It would be more correct if the lady had a note that, for some reason, said "FREE", sitting in the purse that fell out as she put it down; and she realized a while later that there was a sign indicating that the object was free when it was in fact not, and she tucks the note back in the purse.

[AngryTigerP]

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

I was just in the right store at the right time. The employees were all occupied, so I took a candy bar. It's not like they don't have HUNDREDS stocked.

[Knightstar2001]

@Silent Friend:Sorry to break it to you,but thoses who took advantage of MS's error aren't thieves since they didn't steal anything. They bought something for Free off of the Marketplace and as such are entitled to their Purchase. Get mad at Microsoft for screwing up and letting it be visible for purchase without needing the proper code activation, But at that Point Bioware couldn't do anything since it was out of their hands.

Now you can agrue that people shouldn't have taken advantage from a Moral standpoint since they should/could have known that they shouldn't be able to get some of the DLC unless they had fulfilled the requirements. But all it means is that they did something dispite knowing that it was morally wrong. But doing so is not a crime.

[HF100]

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fastin wrote...

Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse.

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy
would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape
or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is
it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.

Then I guess this is where we diverge. You want to fly through loopholes. I want to address ethical concerns. If you are so dismissive as that, that 'well, the law says...", then we are on completely different wavelengths.

Do you really think this is about "Ethical concerns" or the simple fact you're annoyed that some got something for FREE that you had to paid for . Because those are two completely different things.

[IronManik]

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

I was just in the right store at the right time. The employees were all occupied, so I took a candy bar. It's not like they don't have HUNDREDS stocked.

Is there a FREE sign on the candy bar? Because if there is then yes, go ahead and take a candy bar. Again you make terrible comparisons trying to make your failing point stick. Just admit it, your wrong.

[RAZZberree]

Massadonious wrote...

I heard if you "steal" Day one DLC, you'll get banished to the seventh circle of hell when you die, right next to the sodomites and blasphemers.

Hey that sounds just like Scottsdale! Man, who would have thought I lived so close by!

[Fastin]

AngryTigerP wrote...

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

So let me see if I understand this.

You walk into a store and a sign says next to a product FREE.  You pick up said product and proceed to the checkout lane and the item rings up FREE.  You leave the store and then later find out that the product wasn't actually supposed to be ringing up FREE.  You consider the person a thief?  Sorry my friend that isn't stealing.

[AngryTigerP]

Fastin wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

So "Silent Friend" seems to be ignored by everyone.

He (she?) has a point.

Purse on ground. Lady trying on shoes. Some folks grab it when they had the chance, that's all. Please tell me why that's at all ethical.

Again, you seem to think theft is fine so long as you aren't being directly affected, so I guess you don't care if someone stole that bill.

No there isn't a point.  The analogy is completely wrong as it implies that consent wasn't given to take the item.  Consent was given as it was clearly marked FREE.  Again something being ethical or moral has nothing to do with legality.

Reposting reply to another poster that also fits you:

Oh, and your counterargument also incorrectly fits the argument. It
would be more correct if the lady had a note that, for some reason,
said "FREE", sitting in the purse that fell out as she put it down; and
she realized a while later that there was a sign indicating that the
object was free when it was in fact not, and she tucks the note back in
the purse.

That doesn't mean that someone who took the purse in that intermittent period is justified because they didn't stop to ask:

A.) THEMSELVES If it was the RIGHT thing to do (ethical)
B.) THE LADY if she wouldn't mind them taking her purse, even though they KNOW that it's something that isn't normally given away for free, but hey, it appears to be free at the moment.

Incompetence on the part of these DLC takers does not absolve them of guilt.

[Hells_eAngel]

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fastin wrote...

Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse.

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy
would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape
or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is
it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.

Then I guess this is where we diverge. You want to fly through loopholes. I want to address ethical concerns. If you are so dismissive as that, that 'well, the law says...", then we are on completely different wavelengths.

Microsoft distributes DLC that we pay for (and the free one, as well) because they want to have full control. And the guy above you is right, if it wasn't marked as free, then silent's posts would make sense. He is basically saying that we pirated DLC. Which people didn't, they just downloaded what was rightfully offered to them - for free. So yeah, if that guy asks me to take his 10$ bill out of his pocket for "free" and wants me to have it,yeah I'd take it. That is what Microsoft did.

Bioware can not do anything about it. I dono't know why you don't realize that? Its in Microsoft's hands now, completely, the DLC that is. And I'm sure whichever employee allowed that to happen has been punished,or will be if they haven't found out who it is already. I'm fairly sure Bioware is mad at Microsoft as well, as it pretty much encouraged people to cancel their pre-orders of CE that night.

I still don't understand why you're hitting on Bioware. Its Microsoft's fault,completely. And people who downloaded the content for "free" as it was tagged for free, had every right to do so, because they pay for the service, and that service allowed them to download it free of charge.

[Aratham Darksight]

AngryTigerP wrote...

So "Silent Friend" seems to be ignored by everyone.

He (she?) has a point.

Purse on ground. Lady trying on shoes. Some folks grab it when they had the chance, that's all. Please tell me why that's at all ethical.

That's a bad analogy, though. If you grab someone's purse and run away with it, that person will no longer have a purse and its contents. It's not like one of us CE owners lost their special items every time someone unauthorized downloaded them. Music/software piracy is a better analogy, except that arguably not even EA lost any potential income on this, since they were offering the CE in only limited numbers and they seem to be already sold out.

It's still unethical to take advantage of this mistake, but I think it's unethical to such a small degree that it's difficult to take Silent Friends hysterics seriously. It's a sign of moral degeneracy as much as jaywalking is.

[HF100]

Why are you people sullying a moment you've been waiting for? forget about it. This is just a bitter conversation masquerading as concerns of legality and ethics. Honestly if there's any people here that wouldn't have downloaded the FREE dlc if they saw it, I wouldn't think these people are noble, I'd just think they couldn't read.

[AngryTigerP]

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

I was just in the right store at the right time. The employees were all occupied, so I took a candy bar. It's not like they don't have HUNDREDS stocked.

Is there a FREE sign on the candy bar? Because if there is then yes, go ahead and take a candy bar. Again you make terrible comparisons trying to make your failing point stick. Just admit it, your wrong.

Yes. It says it's FREE!. In a post-it note stuck on one of the bars haphazardly.

But it says "Free", right? That means I should be allowed to take it even though I know that most people actually pay money for these candy bars normally, right?

Again, either people KNEW that CE content was meant to be just that, for CE only, meaning that they are committing an ethical violation, or they weren't following ME2 and thought, "hey, look, free ME2 stuff" and thought that they were picking up something that was meant to be free. Ignorance of the law does not mean you can break it, or shouldn't. Just because you don't know the BAC limit for DWI in your state doesn't mean that you're allowed to be over the limit and still drive.

[Inarai]

Hells_eAngel wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fastin wrote...

Silent Friend wrote...

Yes, you are a thief is you downloaded the CE armour. If a woman stopped to try on a pair of shoes and left her purse on the ground unguarded, you do not have the right to take it simply because the oppurtunity is there. This is why there is no excuse for downloading that content even if the fault lies with Microsoft's crappy security programming or a flaw. To suggest otherwise is to suggest you have the right to take that woman's purse.

You fail at analogies but win with hyperbole.

Your analogy
would be accurate if and only if the lady in question attached a sign
to the purse that said free.  FREE.  No one broke the law in any shape
or form when it came to downloading something that was marked free.  Is
it unethical for someone to take advantage of the situation in
question?  Perhaps, but unethical doesn't equal illegal.

Then I guess this is where we diverge. You want to fly through loopholes. I want to address ethical concerns. If you are so dismissive as that, that 'well, the law says...", then we are on completely different wavelengths.

Microsoft distributes DLC that we pay for (and the free one, as well) because they want to have full control. And the guy above you is right, if it wasn't marked as free, then silent's posts would make sense. He is basically saying that we pirated DLC. Which people didn't, they just downloaded what was rightfully offered to them - for free. So yeah, if that guy asks me to take his 10$ bill out of his pocket for "free" and wants me to have it,yeah I'd take it. That is what Microsoft did.

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is unethical behaviour.