114 réponses à ce sujet

[HF100]

Fixed

[/quote]

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is AWESOME behaviour.

[/quote]

[AngryTigerP]

[quote]HF100 wrote...

Fixed

[/quote]

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is AWESOME behaviour.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Yay, opportunistic theft is awesome.

If this is representative of my generation, I really don't ever want to leave college.

[Silent Friend]

Fastin wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're
talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something
that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty
theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning
the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so
they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

So let me see if I understand this.

You
walk into a store and a sign says next to a product FREE.  You pick up
said product and proceed to the checkout lane and the item rings up
FREE.  You leave the store and then later find out that the product
wasn't actually supposed to be ringing up FREE.  You consider the
person a thief?  Sorry my friend that isn't stealing.

- Let me see,

* You were told that items X, Y, Z are exclusive from the edition you ordered + where you pre-ordered. I will tell you now that everyone who downloaded those armours knew well they weren't 'FREE' because they were forum-goers (obvious fans who followed closely).
* The only way to access those DLC pages is by copying + pasting a link that cannot be accessed directly by browsing through the main Xbox Live Marketplace. The pages are not accessible other than back-woods link searches. Why would that be? 
* The one who initially made the posts about it outright underlined the process by which he accessed those pages. Obviously, anyone interested read his comments and clearly would have seen that.
* "Oh, but I didn't know what I was doing was wrong" is a cop-out. It's an excuse. There are no excuses for theft. The fact is, the game hadn't even came out yet nor was there an announcement about ALL DLC being aloud accessed to by the general population. They knew it was wrong, and they did it anyways.

Not to mention, you're missing the most obvious point: it demonstrates their impulsivity. Rather than think about what they are doing, they see something they can take advantage of and do it even though they don't have any right to. They don't stop and think "Well, gee, maybe Microsoft made a mistake... after-all, there was a crap-load of talk about exclusivity and the guy who told me about all this free DLC outright says it's not legitimate for long". Don't feign ignorance, the writing was on the wall but was failed to be read. Simple as that.

Modifié par Silent Friend, 26 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[Inarai]

[quote]AngryTigerP wrote...

[quote]HF100 wrote...

Fixed

[/quote]

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is AWESOME behaviour.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Yay, opportunistic theft is awesome.

If this is representative of my generation, I really don't ever want to leave college.
[/quote]

Lead by example, man, sometimes its all you can do.

[Matt VT Schlo]

Ok, Everyone down to Orange alert. Repeat Orange altert!

[Fastin]

Inarai wrote...

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is unethical behaviour.

It's unethical in your opinion.  No one is saying that your opinion is incorrect but to label someone a thief because of a subjective ethical position that you or someone else holds is highly offensive.  Call me crazy but before I toss a label on someone for being a thief, murderer, etc. I want to make sure that they actually committed the offense. 

[HF100]

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.



I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

[AngryTigerP]

Fastin wrote...

Inarai wrote...

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is unethical behaviour.

It's unethical in your opinion.  No one is saying that your opinion is incorrect but to label someone a thief because of a subjective ethical position that you or someone else holds is highly offensive.  Call me crazy but before I toss a label on someone for being a thief, murderer, etc. I want to make sure that they actually committed the offense. 

Well, let's see here.

Taking something for free that would not be attainable without purchase or an otherwise 'fair' barter as determined by the original possessor (even if they agree to take nothing in exchange for the item -- 'free') is theft in my definition.

What exactly is your version? Because you're arguing semantics over a rather concrete point, which boils down quite simply to, well, "taking what isn't yours" in the simplest form.

[Aratham Darksight]

Inarai wrote...
Lead by example, man, sometimes its all you can do.

But... that's a lot harder than getting indignant at people on gaming forums! 

[MaSTa C7]

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

I was just in the right store at the right time. The employees were all occupied, so I took a candy bar. It's not like they don't have HUNDREDS stocked.

Is there a FREE sign on the candy bar? Because if there is then yes, go ahead and take a candy bar. Again you make terrible comparisons trying to make your failing point stick. Just admit it, your wrong.

Yes. It says it's FREE!. In a post-it note stuck on one of the bars haphazardly.

But it says "Free", right? That means I should be allowed to take it even though I know that most people actually pay money for these candy bars normally, right?

Again, either people KNEW that CE content was meant to be just that, for CE only, meaning that they are committing an ethical violation, or they weren't following ME2 and thought, "hey, look, free ME2 stuff" and thought that they were picking up something that was meant to be free. Ignorance of the law does not mean you can break it, or shouldn't. Just because you don't know the BAC limit for DWI in your state doesn't mean that you're allowed to be over the limit and still drive.

However, on the XBL Marketplace there is no "post-it note" type advertising that can be anagolous to your situation. A better analogy would be if the candy bars had a store-issued price tag that said: "Free" Also "Ignorance of the Law" can't be applied here either, since no law is actually being broken. That's like arresting a customer who bought a dicounted TV because of a misprint in an ad the he/she had no knowledge of being a misprint.

[Fastin]

Silent Friend wrote...

Fastin wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're
talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something
that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty
theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning
the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so
they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

So let me see if I understand this.

You
walk into a store and a sign says next to a product FREE.  You pick up
said product and proceed to the checkout lane and the item rings up
FREE.  You leave the store and then later find out that the product
wasn't actually supposed to be ringing up FREE.  You consider the
person a thief?  Sorry my friend that isn't stealing.

- Let me see,

* You were told that items X, Y, Z are exclusive from the edition you ordered + where you pre-ordered. I will tell you now that everyone who downloaded those armours knew well they weren't 'FREE' because they were forum-goers (obvious fans who followed closely).
* The only way to access those DLC pages is by copying + pasting a link that cannot be accessed directly by browsing through the main Xbox Live Marketplace. The pages are not accessible other than back-woods link searches. Why would that be? 
* The one who initially made the posts about it outright underlined the process by which he accessed those pages. Obviously, anyone interested read his comments and clearly would have seen that.
* "Oh, but I didn't know what I was doing was wrong" is a cop-out. It's an excuse. There are no excuses for theft. The fact is, the game hadn't even came out yet nor was there an announcement about ALL DLC being aloud accessed to by the general population. They knew it was wrong, and they did it anyways.

Not to mention, you're missing the most obvious point: it demonstrates their impulsivity. Rather than think about what they are doing, they see something they can take advantage of and do it even though they don't have any right to. They don't stop and think "Well, gee, maybe Microsoft made a mistake... after-all, there was a crap-load of talk about exclusivity and the guy who told me about all this free DLC outright says it's not legitimate for long". Don't feign ignorance, the writing was on the wall but was failed to be read. Simple as that.

Wonderful and insightful post.  However, you still haven't provided a single shred of evidence to back up the assertion that this constitutes theft.  I'm not pleading ignorance I'm simply stating that you and others are far off the reservation.  You don't get to simply call someone a criminal based on your subjective opinions.  You haven't been bassing your statements as opinion you have been stating them clearly as fact when they are most certainly not.  I think we both agree that the behavior was indeed unethical and I wouldn't have done it, nor did I.  But I will not accuse someone of being a criminal based on my ethical positions.  The difference is you will.

[AngryTigerP]

HF100 wrote...

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.

I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

Of course you don't equate it with theft. That would imply you did something wrong. And you obviously didn't do anything wrong.

Your naivete might be excusable if you weren't basically flaunting the fact that you committed a morally questionable act and deem yourself some sort of hero for it.

[HF100]

AngryTigerP wrote...

HF100 wrote...

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.

I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

Of course you don't equate it with theft. That would imply you did something wrong. And you obviously didn't do anything wrong.

Your naivete might be excusable if you weren't basically flaunting the fact that you committed a morally questionable act and deem yourself some sort of hero for it.

Hero? This is verging into farce. I think you’re point would become more coherent if you decided what had actually happened. In your opinion did I break the law or do you think I have questionable morals? Because you're point is being lost in the mix somewhere.

Modifié par HF100, 26 janvier 2010 - 09:21 .

[AngryTigerP]

MaSTa C7 wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

IronManik wrote...

So silent friend have you ever jay walked? Pissed on a tree in the woods? Littered? Cause i would bet my pre-ordered copy of ME2 that you have, and according to your own logic if your a criminal you cant complain about other criminal acts. So are you a hypocrite? or just really stupid....

Stop trying to deflect to minor 'technical legal violations'.

We're talking about a major ethical concept: Theft. The taking of something that does not belong to one without any permision. The fact that 'petty theft' is given its own category is beside the point. I'm questioning the ethical standpoint of people who say "someone was ABLE to steal, so they should be ALLOWED to steal", regardless of monetary value.

But no one stole anything... thats the point that everyone is trying to make to you people. We didnt go out and break into gamestop and steal a CE. We didnt hack into the Microsoft servers and make it all free. We were just on the internet at the right time. For all you know it was a publicity stunt pulled by Microsoft to get everyone talking about it. But it wasn't stealing. So get off your high horse, and go play what is probably going to be the GOTY for 2010, like what the rest of us are going to be doing.

I was just in the right store at the right time. The employees were all occupied, so I took a candy bar. It's not like they don't have HUNDREDS stocked.

Is there a FREE sign on the candy bar? Because if there is then yes, go ahead and take a candy bar. Again you make terrible comparisons trying to make your failing point stick. Just admit it, your wrong.

Yes. It says it's FREE!. In a post-it note stuck on one of the bars haphazardly.

But it says "Free", right? That means I should be allowed to take it even though I know that most people actually pay money for these candy bars normally, right?

Again, either people KNEW that CE content was meant to be just that, for CE only, meaning that they are committing an ethical violation, or they weren't following ME2 and thought, "hey, look, free ME2 stuff" and thought that they were picking up something that was meant to be free. Ignorance of the law does not mean you can break it, or shouldn't. Just because you don't know the BAC limit for DWI in your state doesn't mean that you're allowed to be over the limit and still drive.

However, on the XBL Marketplace there is no "post-it note" type advertising that can be anagolous to your situation. A better analogy would be if the candy bars had a store-issued price tag that said: "Free" Also "Ignorance of the Law" can't be applied here either, since no law is actually being broken. That's like arresting a customer who bought a dicounted TV because of a misprint in an ad the he/she had no knowledge of being a misprint.

A price tag that was accidentally put on an item that was not actually meant to be sold for free, sure. In fact, that's a much better analogy, thank you.

And I'm not talking exclusively about laws. You're intentionally fixating on trivial points. Fine, you are expected to know all the rules in your high school agenda/planner (at least, I had to). You couldn't bring a knife to school and say "I didn't know that was against the rules". It doesn't explicitly say 'knives', it says 'weapons', or 'objects meant to cause harm to others'. But that misprint gives them the right to, no?

I'm not saying they should get legally prosecuted -- nowhere did I say that. If there were a way to forcibly remove DLC from someone while allowing them to keep everything else that they correctly attained, I would go for that. For now, though, all I can do is give them mean looks while I wait for the next 16 or so hours to pass by.

[log1x_dr4g0n]

For myself and others who paid for the CE...
You paid an extra $10 for the following: an art book, the first issue of the comic book Mass Effect: Redemption, a making-of DVD, and exclusive in-game weapons and armor...also it's in a tin can.
The art book, if it'll be available in stores later on, would be like...$4 or something. I'm not sure what it looks like yet. I'll have to wait until later this morning to find out. The comic book...how much are they these days...? $2? DVD...I dunno...how much content it has and such..I'll make a guess..$10 or something if it were available in a store? The armour...I'm sure is a free bonus for those who got it, and would probably be free for those who didn't get the CE later on. It's $70 for all of that...probably is that much the most because of the tin can it comes in too.

It's funny because I paid for two of them. One for me and the other for my brother so he we can play it on our own xbox's, and you don't see me complaining about the little mix up, which is all it is. It happens, but it is rare.

If someone were to get all the things in the Collector's Edition, they would be paying more than us. Seriously, you only paid $10 extra than the regular edition. It's not like you played a ridiculous amount, like $100-something for the CE.

[MaSTa C7]

AngryTigerP wrote...

HF100 wrote...

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.

I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

Of course you don't equate it with theft. That would imply you did something wrong. And you obviously didn't do anything wrong.

Your naivete might be excusable if you weren't basically flaunting the fact that you committed a morally questionable act and deem yourself some sort of hero for it.

Its not theft. Theft implies you did the act without consent of the other party. Once Microsoft puts it on their site, they are essentially giving you permission to take said item for the advertised price. The problem boils down to taking advantage of another's mistake. Unethical? Not for me to judge. Illegal? Not by a long shot.

[Fastin]

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fastin wrote...

Inarai wrote...

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is unethical behaviour.

It's unethical in your opinion.  No one is saying that your opinion is incorrect but to label someone a thief because of a subjective ethical position that you or someone else holds is highly offensive.  Call me crazy but before I toss a label on someone for being a thief, murderer, etc. I want to make sure that they actually committed the offense. 

Well, let's see here.

Taking something for free that would not be attainable without purchase or an otherwise 'fair' barter as determined by the original possessor (even if they agree to take nothing in exchange for the item -- 'free') is theft in my definition.

Sounds good to me.  Guess what though the possessor of said product MS in this situation determined that the item was FREE as it was clearly marked such.  Therefore that doesn't constitute as theft as you have clearly shown.

[AngryTigerP]

HF100 wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

HF100 wrote...

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.

I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

Of course you don't equate it with theft. That would imply you did something wrong. And you obviously didn't do anything wrong.

Your naivete might be excusable if you weren't basically flaunting the fact that you committed a morally questionable act and deem yourself some sort of hero for it.

Hero? This is verging into farce. I think you’re point would
become more coherent if you decided what had actually happened. In your opinion
did I break the law or do you think I have questionable morals? Because you're point is being lost in the mix somewhere.

Oh, yes, forgive my hyperbole. Thought you'd be cool with it.

Fine, you think you're talented, or skilled, or even just fortunate. You were successfully able to abuse an error that TECHNICALLY gave you something for free that you know would have otherwise neccessitated a purchase on your part. Am I supposed to clap for you? Perhaps I should praise you for your exploit? None of your explanations will change the fact that you were following the game, and you knew that this was supposed to be exclusive to the Collectors' Edition. You knowingly took something that you weren't entitled to.

[AngryTigerP]

log1x_dr4g0n wrote...

For myself and others who paid for the CE...
You paid an extra $10 for the following: an art book, the first issue of the comic book Mass Effect: Redemption, a making-of DVD, and exclusive in-game weapons and armor...also it's in a tin can.
The art book, if it'll be available in stores later on, would be like...$4 or something. I'm not sure what it looks like yet. I'll have to wait until later this morning to find out. The comic book...how much are they these days...? $2? DVD...I dunno...how much content it has and such..I'll make a guess..$10 or something if it were available in a store? The armour...I'm sure is a free bonus for those who got it, and would probably be free for those who didn't get the CE later on. It's $70 for all of that...probably is that much the most because of the tin can it comes in too.

It's funny because I paid for two of them. One for me and the other for my brother so he we can play it on our own xbox's, and you don't see me complaining about the little mix up, which is all it is. It happens, but it is rare.

If someone were to get all the things in the Collector's Edition, they would be paying more than us. Seriously, you only paid $10 extra than the regular edition. It's not like you played a ridiculous amount, like $100-something for the CE.

I knew this would come up.

British buyers had to pay almost double for the CE. So for them, everything that set it apart from the standard edition would be important, I think.

[AngryTigerP]

Fastin wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fastin wrote...

Inarai wrote...

No, it isn't.

See, it may have said free, but anyone looking at it know full well it wasn't supposed to be.  The law may be different, but taking it under those conditions is unethical behaviour.

It's unethical in your opinion.  No one is saying that your opinion is incorrect but to label someone a thief because of a subjective ethical position that you or someone else holds is highly offensive.  Call me crazy but before I toss a label on someone for being a thief, murderer, etc. I want to make sure that they actually committed the offense. 

Well, let's see here.

Taking something for free that would not be attainable without purchase or an otherwise 'fair' barter as determined by the original possessor (even if they agree to take nothing in exchange for the item -- 'free') is theft in my definition.

Sounds good to me.  Guess what though the possessor of said product MS in this situation determined that the item was FREE as it was clearly marked such.  Therefore that doesn't constitute as theft as you have clearly shown.

The possessor was also drunk when he said it, and later comes back (sober) to say, sorry, I messed up, I didn't mean to make that deal.

EDIT: Don't start talking about sobriety, I'm merely talking about how MS didn't know what they were doing.

Modifié par AngryTigerP, 26 janvier 2010 - 09:28 .

[Deity Falkor]

I could be worse. I bought the CE of Fable I and it took over a month to get the ingame content that should have come with. I payed for it for me, if someone else got it free, power to them.

[HF100]

AngryTigerP wrote...

HF100 wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

HF100 wrote...

get a grip honestly, I've tried to listen to this but you have to appreciate it sounds petty. at best you're judging my own opinion and morality and at worst you're having a hissy fit because we've got your toy too.

I did download the FREE dlc today, did i know what i was doing? Obviously i did, but i don't equate it to theft. I'd usually state my reasons why but i cannot really be bothered with HE'S MAKING EXCUSE CAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID!!!111 which would predictably ensue

Of course you don't equate it with theft. That would imply you did something wrong. And you obviously didn't do anything wrong.

Your naivete might be excusable if you weren't basically flaunting the fact that you committed a morally questionable act and deem yourself some sort of hero for it.

Hero? This is verging into farce. I think you’re point would
become more coherent if you decided what had actually happened. In your opinion
did I break the law or do you think I have questionable morals? Because you're point is being lost in the mix somewhere.

Oh, yes, forgive my hyperbole. Thought you'd be cool with it.

Fine, you think you're talented, or skilled, or even just fortunate. You were successfully able to abuse an error that TECHNICALLY gave you something for free that you know would have otherwise neccessitated a purchase on your part. Am I supposed to clap for you? Perhaps I should praise you for your exploit? None of your explanations will change the fact that you were following the game, and you knew that this was supposed to be exclusive to the Collectors' Edition. You knowingly took something that you weren't entitled to.

So that long-winded spiel basically said it wasn't illegal but unethical then? well we've made some progress!. Honestly man that's your opinion and i think basically calling me morally corrupt based on one action may be a slight extreme, I actually don't care though and not because i'm so nonchalant, it's because if i was in your situation i'd be pissed off too. But i can still say with a clear coscience that the next time the FREE dlc comes up i'd do it again. Simply because I don't see it how you do.

[Fastin]

AngryTigerP wrote...
I'm not saying they should get legally prosecuted -- nowhere did I say that. If there were a way to forcibly remove DLC from someone while allowing them to keep everything else that they correctly attained, I would go for that. For now, though, all I can do is give them mean looks while I wait for the next 16 or so hours to pass by.

Well then stop using the words: theft, thief, etc.  Those words constitue that an individual should be legally prosecuted.  Unless it's of your opinion that individuals who engage in theft shouldn't be prosecuted.

AngryTigerP wrote...

Fine, you think you're talented, or
skilled, or even just fortunate. You were successfully able to abuse an
error that TECHNICALLY gave you something for free that you know would
have otherwise neccessitated a purchase on your part. Am I supposed to
clap for you? Perhaps I should praise you for your exploit? None of
your explanations will change the fact that you were following the
game, and you knew that this was supposed to be exclusive to the
Collectors' Edition. You knowingly took something that you weren't
entitled to.

You had me until the end there.  He was entitled to it considered it was marked FREE.  He was given the right to claim a good that was marked as such.

AngryTigerP wrote...

The possessor was also drunk when he
said it, and later comes back (sober) to say, sorry, I messed up, I
didn't mean to make that deal.

EDIT: Don't start talking about sobriety, I'm merely talking about how MS didn't know what they were doing.

If you don't want me to talk about sobriety then don't mention it.  I'll ignore this comment for the most part because we both know it's another failed analogy.

[cedardryad]

This is not Bioware's fault people. Bioware developed the game and that's where it ends.



Marketing is EA's behalf. EA has a lot of negative sides and being money hungry is one of them. If it wasn't for Bioware I wouldn't have gotten Mass Effect because I don't like what EA did to their booth babes, or encouraged.



This was a faux pas on Microsoft's behalf so stop attacking Bioware. Microsoft also has it's problems now and then, but it seems some people rather attack the developers that have nothing to do with this.