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Why do a lot of people hate Sera?


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#226
Dean_the_Young

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I said I wouldn't respond (and I don't know why you're bringing up elvish stuff and such in the part I cut out - I'm not the one who said that stuff), but let's narrow it down to one instance.

 

Why does she take their gold? I get that a girl needs to eat, but she's very eager to take potentially "pass the hat" gold when she wants the Inquisitor to come with her to pick up the drop (that goes wrong) in Crestwood. She doesn't need money by this point. Why take it? Why be so eager for it? (My answer is that, in her desperation, in what she has seen and experienced, she is as desirous of power as any noble is, really, because she wants the protection of some kind of power - she doesn't want to be a noble, certainly, I'm not saying THAT - and this makes her very similar to those she hates. Most people are, and it's one of the things I find interesting about her character, actually, so that's not a slam on her, just how I view her. She's terrified to actually be a Little Person and desperately wants to be a Big Person in many ways, even as she despises them.)

 

That question is easy. Sera wants money because she's greedy. She'll use it for her needs, and she'll use it to keep greasing the Red Jenny network, and she'll use it for herself to have fun.

 

Big Person doesn't mean wealthy in Sera's book. The big people are the ones who stand over little people and step over them in the name of themselves or 'the greater good' and what not. When money is involved, the Big Person uses of money are the sort of protect themselves against Little People and to promote their own influence. To get little people to say 'yes my lord' and do anything.

 

But what Sera hasn't been using money for, so far as we can tell, is for protection or security or personal influence or status. She's not using it to buy guards or build a safe haven or invest in assets or to get people to defer to her. She's not even interested in trying to get out of a life of crime.

 

 

Also, at no point do we actually help people that we see. Maybe we do in the War Table missions, but they rarely get follow up. Maybe those people had their throats slit later - I don't know. We don't see any evidence of Sera's help, but we do see evidence of her (accidental) harm and her eagerness to profit personally from helping the little people. 

 

 

Sera isn't about altruistic helping, or any sort of maximizing benefit for any cause. Trying to frame an argument in those turns is missing the point. Sera is about having fun, and Sera's fun comes mostly in helping little people stick it to The Man. Not in helping little people escape being little/becoming richer/living healtheir/etc.

 

Helping little people is incidental, not the objective. Her own description of the Jenny network should give an idea: some people get paid, some people get a favor, some people just get a laugh or a thumb into the eyes of some noble they dislike. Her cornerstone motivation for helping with the Breach revolves around that the Breach gets in the way of her fun, more than concern about how it hurts people in general.

 

And I like Sera - I just don't think that people who say she's hypocritical about helping the little people are without a point. 

 

 

Most people misuse the hypocrisy angle. For the same reasons Sera isn't a race traitor, Sera can't simply be slotted into individual preferences on what she 'should' feel or do if she was really sincere about little people. Hypocrisy is a consistency standard of the position holder- not the consistency of upholding the positions of the observer/player who has different ideas about what Sera should do and believe.
 

 

I didn't realize she lied to her. Or it didn't register with me. If that's the case, fair enough. 

 

 

It's ambiguous, and may have been a trap set by the Duchess with Briala uninvolved.


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#227
Han Master

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Lol did you even read the thread?
 
Nobody mentioned her sexuality at all.


That's what they said about Anders 3 yrs ago in the DA 2 forums after the game released, the gay thing came later.

#228
Chuvvy

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I can easily see why she's a polarizing character. She's a classic example of Bioware going overboard, they did something similar with Merrill. They had a decent idea, which was, DA's equivalent of Gavroche, someone who was raised on the streets, and is incredibly uneducated. She offered a potential for an interesting viewpoint on the slum life for a child, what extreme poverty is like in Thedas, but the opportunity was largely squandered. When she talks about the what it's like she mainly sticks to "nobles **** on the little people" "little people get forgotten" very basic stuff like that, she rarely delves into it. Now you may say to me "Well, if she's uneducated, how is she meant to get these points across eloquently?" Well, I'd say it can be stated without the use of big words like eloquently.

 

Instead of all of this, they opted to give her ADHD and make her the "funny" character. BW's humor, to put it mildly, isn't for everyone. I personally don't find it funny, but I don't find it incredibly cringey like some people do either. Aspects of this original idea are still present, but are very deluded by the rest of her whole, at the core you have a very interesting character. There is on thing that I really liked how they handled, which was the fact that she was at the Orphanage the Warden saves. It's never outright stated that she was there, but it can easily be inferred. She was an orphan in denerim, she was a child at that time, and she has a huge fear of magic and demons.

 

Other issues are that she has a simple world view (again not an issue in itself) but these are presented by her as "the truth", and that she's saying what everyone else should be, and that she's the only one who gets it. This can be construed by the player as Bioware implying that she's actually the only one who gets it. Not necessarily the case, but it can be interpreted that way.

 

You also can't really argue with her over things, so when she says "X is this way" you can say "No, it's actually this way" she responds with "nuh uh" and "sera slightly disapproves" and that's the end of it. Honestly, Sera is a character that would've benefited greatly from the rival system, similar to how Merrill did.

 

While Merrill is similarly polarizing, in that a decent chunk of the fanbase hates her, they can at least (albeit after six years and the potential death of her clan) make her see reason. I could probably write another few paragraphs one what's wrong and right with Merrill as well, but this is about Sera.

 

At any rate, in general I like Sera, and I can accept her for what she is, and she's not nearly as bad as I thought she would be. But there are issues with her character, and those issues are why people dislike her.


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#229
Ennai and 54 others

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It sounds to me that the people who defend Sera would spin anything she does wrong to make her look like a saint.(Exaggerating ofcourse)

Spin doctors.
"Oh no she is not uncritical,narrow minded and ignorant because mythal COULD be a demon."

"Oh no she is not a bigot because the dalish generally ARE jerks" (even though Solas admits dalish tribes vary in terms of trust and wisdom)

"She is not educated so give her a chance!"
"She has a bad past so she could have been worse!"
"Those nobles deserved it!"
"At least she sticks around!"
"At least she didn't kill you"
"You just don't understand what she is saying,she is totally saying something intelligent!"
"She is a well written character so you shouldn't hate her"
"People wouldn't hate her as much if she wasn't a girl (pulls out psych textbook),see?!"

Maybe Sera apologists should just get over it.You care too much about what's in other peoples heads.Sera wouldn't.



I just wish I had the chance to kill her.My warden has stabbed people for less.(Really).


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#230
skotie

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It sounds to me that the people who defend Sera would spin anything she does wrong to make her look like a saint.(Exaggerating ofcourse)

Spin doctors.
"Oh no she is not uncritical,narrow minded and ignorant because mythal COULD be a demon."

"Oh no she is not a bigot because the dalish generally ARE jerks" (even though Solas admits dalish tribes are different based on region,even though they are rude to him)

"She is not educated so give her a chance!"
"She has a bad past so she could have been worse!"
"Those nobles deserved it!"
"At least she sticks around!"
"At least she didn't kill you"
"You just don't understand what she is saying,she is totally saying something intelligent!"
"She is a well written character so you shouldn't hate her"
"People wouldn't hate her as much if she wasn't a girl (pulls out psych textbook),see?!"

Maybe Sera apologists should just get over it.You care too much about what's in other peoples heads.Sera wouldn't.



I just wish I had the chance to kill her.My warden has stabbed people for less.(Really).

I honestly thought about how nice a murder knife option would have been while recruiting her. Yep just stab you for murdering that pompus ass you just shot in the face and collect my bee jar recipe. Farewell Sera!

 

Honestly even Vivienne gave me the option of letting the jackass she froze right before we met live and she's supposed to be the evil one!


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#231
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Because female characters are expected to be 100% mature, gorgeous, open minded, noble, and likeable.

Nevermind how many people loved Oghren (immature, drunk), or Sten (closed minded, murderer)...

Had Sera been written as a male there would be a different reaction to her. Some would still hate male Sera, but I guarantee he'd have a huge fandom for being quirky, fun, hilarious, confident, and exciting.

But since she's female she's called crazy, annoying, immature, closed minded, and erratic.
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#232
TheRevanchist

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To me? She's narrow-minded, arrogant, cruel in her arrogance, and unforgivably vulgar and crass. She actually makes Isabela seem a very classy person in comparison.

 

Lots of people seem to love these traits though, so I can understand why Sera has staunch fans, I'm just never going to be one of them.

 

You know, your right, I hated Isabella for those very reasons. After Sera? She made me like Isabella MORE. I did not think that was possible lol.


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#233
MPSai

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I really, really wanted to like her. I was planning on romancing her, but she turned out to be an obvious ill fit for my tradtionalist Dalish elf, so I went with Solas. So I thought, okay, I'll romance her next playthrough as a Qunari... but then I had the conversation with her after drinking from the Well of Sorrows where she calls you stupid for being interested in something big like, you know, ancient elves still hanging around in an old temple. And I just wanted to punch her in her stupid face.

 

If she had some character development like, at all, she wouldn't be so bad. But being zany can only get such a willfully ignorant character so far with me. I have similar feelings on Iron Bull, people think he's hilarious but he just doesn't do much for me and I find him extremely one note. I'll be over with Varric and Dorian drinking, playing cards and being witty.


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#234
Girtuoklis

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Simple because she retarded, hypocritical and sociopathic. Her "helping little people" stuff is excuse for murders and thefts she commiting FOR FUN. And that is just sick.



#235
Vyndral

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Other issues are that she has a simple world view (again not an issue in itself) but these are presented by her as "the truth", and that she's saying what everyone else should be, and that she's the only one who gets it. This can be construed by the player as Bioware implying that she's actually the only one who gets it. Not necessarily the case, but it can be interpreted that way.
 
You also can't really argue with her over things, so when she says "X is this way" you can say "No, it's actually this way" she responds with "nuh uh" and "sera slightly disapproves" and that's the end of it. Honestly, Sera is a character that would've benefited greatly from the rival system, similar to how Merrill did.


So to sum up, Sera is almost exactly like most the people in this thread?
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#236
DarkSpiral

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So to sum up, Sera is almost exactly like most the people in this forum?

 Fixed that for you.


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#237
Icinix

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 Fixed that for you.

 

 

So to sum up, Sera is almost exactly like most the people in this thread?

 

*internet


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#238
Zoralink

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Because female characters are expected to be 100% mature, gorgeous, open minded, noble, and likeable.

Nevermind how many people loved Oghren (immature, drunk), or Sten (closed minded, murderer)...

Had Sera been written as a male there would be a different reaction to her. Some would still hate male Sera, but I guarantee he'd have a huge fandom for being quirky, fun, hilarious, confident, and exciting.

But since she's female she's called crazy, annoying, immature, closed minded, and erratic.

 

....I can't tell if you're serious or not.

 

Anyway, I hate her not necessarily for any one particular thing other than:

 

She's 100% willfully ignorant. If she at least, you know, had a moment of "Well maybe those elfy-elves had a point..." after the Temple of Mythal, I would have liked her more. Instead, she managed to solidify my hatred of her.

 

Which is a pity, because she does have her good moments, where I don't completely want to use her as bait for the nearest dragon, but it's overshadowed by her pathetic attempts to pigeon-hole everything into her extremely limited worldview. 



#239
robertthebard

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Too late, my first response in this particular thread was "OMG, Sera's the BSN".

#240
keyip

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It's pretty funny how many people hate Sera partly (or sometimes wholly) because she's willfully dismissive of the player's ideas/beliefs.



#241
LordParbr

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selfish

I really don't get this... I see people calling her selfish all the time, and I don't get it. Her whole thing with the Red Jennies is to knock the nobles down a peg so they stop lording over the little people like her. That isn't selfish, even if she mostly got into it for herself. Doing things to keep herself amused isn't selfish either. I just don't get this criticism.
 


racist,

Noooooo, she isn't... She just doesn't like the Dalish elf, "Woe is us, let's all brand ourselves with slave markings, (we somehow don't know are slave markings even though the first of us who had them undoubtedly knew that) and cling to our forgotten past instead of building a future" racist bullshit they're always spouting. She doesn't hate elves. She just hates the racist, self-pitying s*** and feels no kinship with them.
 


trends to do bad jokes and snortlaughs on them...

Okay, so? Everyone tells bad jokes. Get over yourself.


I really like Sera. The only real problem I have with her is that she's dedicated to see the world in black-and-white terms, and the idea that she could be wrong about that really scares the hell out of her. However, that's why she's already made up her mind on how the world works and just refuses to hear anything contrary to that is because the idea that the world isn't simple terrifies her. That's called nuance, children.


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#242
Zoralink

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It's pretty funny how many people hate Sera partly (or sometimes wholly) because she's willfully dismissive of the player's ideas/beliefs.

 

She isn't willfully dismissive of the player's ideas/beliefs.

 

She's willfully dismissive/ignorant of everyone's beliefs, to the extent that she mocks everybody else's beliefs.



#243
DarkSpiral

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I really don't get this... I see people calling her selfish all the time, and I don't get it. Her whole thing with the Red Jennies is to knock the nobles down a peg so they stop lording over the little people like her. That isn't selfish, even if she mostly got into it for herself. Doing things to keep herself amused isn't selfish either. I just don't get this criticism.

 

The rest of your pst I don't really disagree with, but this I do.  That's the very definition of selfish, getting into something for yourself, i.e for your own personal gratification.  She isn't trying to help the other little people, she's getting her own jollies out of it, and getting paid money at the same time.

 

If that isn't what you meant, please clarify.



#244
robertthebard

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She isn't willfully dismissive of the player's ideas/beliefs.
 
She's willfully dismissive/ignorant of everyone's beliefs, to the extent that she mocks everybody else's beliefs.


When is she dismissive of Andrastianism? Dismissive of the Chantry, maybe, but of the basic religious beliefs behind it? Doesn't being dismissive of the Chantry put her right in line with the majority of the Inquisition? It's not like nobody else believes that the Chantry needed to be "fixed".

#245
LordParbr

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The rest of your pst I don't really disagree with, but this I do.  That's the very definition of selfish, getting into something for yourself, i.e for your own personal gratification.  She isn't trying to help the other little people, she's getting her own jollies out of it, and getting paid money at the same time.

 

If that isn't what you meant, please clarify.

That isn't selfishness. Or, at least, that isn't a negative kind of selfishness. She probably does care about other people in her position. Otherwise, why ask the Inquisitor to do that march? The nobles there weren't directly influencing her, and they likely never would. She's with the Inquisition. Just by virtue of that, if she actually were selfish, she could live comfortably in notoriety just on the idea that she's a member of this organization, and never have to worry about a noble stepping on her ever again.



#246
DarkSpiral

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That isn't selfishness. Or, at least, that isn't a negative kind of selfishness. She probably does care about other people in her position. Otherwise, why ask the Inquisitor to do that march? The nobles there weren't directly influencing her, and they likely never would. She's with the Inquisition. Just by virtue of that, if she actually were selfish, she could live comfortably in notoriety just on the idea that she's a member of this organization, and never have to worry about a noble stepping on her ever again.

 I would agree that it isn't a socially unacceptable form of selfishness, that's true.  But it is selfishness, and that why people describe her as such.



#247
Dean_the_Young

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I honestly thought about how nice a murder knife option would have been while recruiting her. Yep just stab you for murdering that pompus ass you just shot in the face and collect my bee jar recipe. Farewell Sera!

 

Honestly even Vivienne gave me the option of letting the jackass she froze right before we met live and she's supposed to be the evil one!

Supposed to be...?



#248
Moondoggie

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I can understand why people dislike her it's so of the same reason why some young people especially students are unlikable because they are hypocrites. They rattle on about Socialism and Anarchism and various other "isms" protesting against the big corporations by smashing property and baiting Cops then after they have a good laugh over it at Starbucks while they share footage on their Ipads. Sera is very idealistic  and her views are not based on real practical things but her own black and white view of the world. There are a lot of ways the writers could have made her better but they chose to make her very static.

Vivienne is another polarizing character who gets hate. She's like the opposite of Sera being the right winger who's views are oppressive and unpleasant. It seems like most people who hate Sera like Vivienne.


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#249
Decepticon Leader Sully

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because they haven't got any puppies to kill.


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#250
Xilizhra

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You can't act as if society is postracial when it's not. Sera tries, but that just makes you ignorant in a different way and puts the cart before the horse.

 

Also, Celene and Gaspard do everything bad that Briala does, except moreso and harder (especially Gaspard, who started the war to begin with), yet Sera doesn't disapprove of helping them. That, and the fact that she only disapproves of an Inquisitor who wants to make a good example for elvenkind (when she approves of a dwarf or qunari Inquisitor playing racial politics) are two things that make me suspect that she's actually racist instead of just failing to be postracial.


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