2858 réponses à ce sujet

[GoldenGail3]

"You need to stop making baseless assumptions in your attempt to defend Sera, both of characters and of real people."

 

Any assumptions i make is from dialogue that was said in game or dialogue that I interpret.  You and GG (Ghost Gal) said she was a bully didnt you? how did you come to that conclusion? you judged her actions in game right? does she stand on top of the Tavern yelling i am a bully? does an NPC or Josie walk past saying that she is a Bully? no you judged the characters actions.  Now is that wrong? no of course no

It's her actions that may make her seem like one (aka around the Dalish Inquistor, and tellin' them that their beliefs mean jackshite and that their non existent and that they shouldn't believe in demons, etc.) So yeah, she doesn't need to do that, ir's her actions that say otherwise. 

[dragonagenewbie]

 
I repeatedly request that content I dislike be toned down or be absent in future installments as do others.
 
Example: I am amongst the people who disliked the endings of Mass Effect 3 and so I repeatedly request that similar endings are not present in future products. I am not advocating the removal of the endings in the Mass Effect 3; I am requesting that the elements I disliked are either toned down or are absent in future installments. I am expressing what I dislike about a product and what could impact my interest in future products in the series.
 

 

I havent played ME3 but let me ask you this.  What would people think if there were 3 dialogue choices or 3 endings and all 3 were the same? i've played a bit of Fallout 4 and a lot of people there say that having 3-4 dialogue choices and the same outcome for each one kinda sucks.  Its like you are saying yes but just in 4 different ways.

 

OK so with companions...the game has a pool of 9 companions.  If all those companions were do-gooders how do you think players will feel? some people will be happy no doubt. But some people *like* playing with malcontents. I dont understand why anyone would like to have Skadge from SWTOR as a comp.  But my understanding is irrelevant...as long as people have fun playing with Skadge is all that matters.  Now i wont ask for malcontent or undesirable companions to be removed, but i will ask that i am never forced into interacting with them.  Having them be forced into my party for example...i can stand to look at Vivienne or Coles faces in game that wont bother me.

 

Another thing too is that BW seems to like adding a varied group of comps personality-wise in their games.  So you ask for Cole, Sera, and Viv to be removed (i'm guessing the 3 most unpopular comps due to their behavior).  Well who do you replace them with?  You gonna replace the weirdo, the foulmouth and the beehatch with 3 same-but-slightly-different versions of Cassandra, Varric and Iron Bull?  I think that the weirdo, foulmouth and beehatch should be replaced with another type of weirdo/foulmouth/beehatch.  And for people that dont want to have to put up with those? there's the option to not recruit them, not bring them with you to quest and so on. But asking for an undesirable comp to be removed just because you dont like it when its clear that other people like it is selfish.  I wont say that you guys cant give feedback, but if your feedback is selfish then i'll tell you you're being selfish.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm sorry to interfere, I know it's none of my business, but it's counterproductive to keep pointing fingers at each other, post after post. You'll only become further entangled in your little fight and keep acusing each other ad infinitum. No one will change each other's minds. And in the end, some random idiot might take advantage of the situation and request a mod to lock the thread. Nobody wants that.

 

Just forgive and forget, guys. Please. 

Well, to be honest this thread should have been locked on multiple occasions since a few times things have gotten a lot worse than this on here. But don't worry, I'm dropping that part unless they get really bad since it is clear that at this moment nothing will be achieved by continuing. I try to be civil and they just get worse and worse, so why bother? 

[dragonagenewbie]

Source? The game doesn't show a single person being happy with the pranks Sera pulls. Well, that's not true they do show one person: Sera. 

 

 

Sorry gotta get ready for work so i'll be quick. Just as me and a few other people have mentioned you cant expect  them to have cutscenes for everything. How many things in game are there that dont really make sense because there isn't a cutscene accompanying it? The finishing cutscene for the pranks doesnt mention success or failure for her objectives just that it works for Sera.  To save you the trouble, dont bother pointing out that she *was* doing it for herself...because i dont care that she's selfish.  I care about the results which as i mentioned i dont think were shown or mentioned in dialogue (and i dont have time to look it up).  So feel free to look that up, but if its not shown or spoken of in game then i guess that means you cant say that she was unsuccessful...and at the same time i cant say that it was.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sorry gotta get ready for work so i'll be quick. Just as me and a few other people have mentioned you cant expect  them to have cutscenes for everything. How many things in game are there that dont really make sense because there isn't a cutscene accompanying it? The finishing cutscene for the pranks doesnt mention success or failure for her objectives just that it works for Sera.  To save you the trouble, dont bother pointing out that she *was* doing it for herself...because i dont care that she's selfish.  I care about the results which as i mentioned i dont think were shown or mentioned in dialogue (and i dont have time to look it up).  So feel free to look that up, but if its not shown or spoken of in game then i guess that means you cant say that she was unsuccessful...and at the same time i cant say that it was.

So the answer is you have none. You have no source to support what you are saying, and are only using your headcanon. Figured as much. Well, this conversation is over since one can't argue against headcanon.

To quote Saren from Mass Effect: "Are we allowing dreams into evidence now? How can I defend myself against this kind of testimony?" 

Have a pleasant day. 

[Ghost Gal]

Yeah, I'm dropping out because this has turned into a circular argument as well.

 

I will say this, though:

 

Sorry gotta get ready for work so i'll be quick. Just as me and a few other people have mentioned you cant expect  them to have cutscenes for everything. 

 

I've said time and time again that I don't expect them to "have cutscenes for everything," I expect them to have at least one scene for this one thing.

 

Being an advocate for the "little people" is supposedly a huge part of Sera's character, yet we don't have one scene of her actually interacting with or doing anything directly for them. We've got tons of scenes of her hanging out at taverns by herself or screwing around with / killing nobles because she finds it funny, but NONE of her actions actually benefiting the common folk? I'm sorry, but they should have budgeted it in. At least if they wanted everyone to take the whole "she cares about / is doing this for the common folk" thing seriously.

 

A five second scene of tavern patrons witnessing Cullen angrily yelling "All right, who messed with my desk?!" and then snickering into their tankards would have been all I needed to confirm that Sera's pranks not only really was for them, but that they worked in boosting morale. If it would have been oh-so-expensive to animate that one little scene... well, I'm sorry, but they should have rethought which scenes were essential and which weren't.

 

EDIT: But, clearly I'm not going to change your mind or vice-versa, so I'm done.

[KaiserShep]

If there are no legitimate or peaceful ways, then start one. Every one in our history started somewhere, and even in Dragon Age there are people who are trying. For example Leliana if unhardened and elected Divine.

 

As for the rest, I vehemently disagree. The ends don't justify the means, and if you have to sink to their level to beat them you are no better then them so nothing has changed. We should drop using real world examples though since that is against Site Rules. 

 

 

I never read the site rules, but it would boggle the mind if it really used the phrase "real world examples". Like, do they just hate history so much that anything from it is totally banworthy? Come on. No one would follow that crap, because history is awesome. 

 

In any case, peaceful resolution is a luxury life does not always afford. To use an example from a game (per site rules), let's look at the quest where Hawke and Anders encounter Ser Alrik. What peaceful resolution would one be able to conjure up to a devout scumbag who is totally going to turn a girl tranquil, other than simply allowing him to do it? You couldn't pay him not to do it, nor convince him that it's mean and wrong, because, well, devout scumbag. So, the next and most obvious option is to kill him, along with everyone else following him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I never read the site rules, but it would boggle the mind if it really used the phrase "real world examples". Like, do they just hate history so much that anything from it is totally banworthy? Come on. No one would follow that crap, because history is awesome. 

It's not on the actual Site Rules(other than don't bash individuals/nations/groups/religions/etc) but multiple times the mods have asked that real world issues that could lead to hostility should be avoided. If real world stuff won't do that it is fine. 

[straykat]

I never read the site rules, but it would boggle the mind if it really used the phrase "real world examples". Like, do they just hate history so much that anything from it is totally banworthy? Come on. No one would follow that crap, because history is awesome. 

 

In any case, peaceful resolution is a luxury life does not always afford. To use an example from a game (per site rules), let's look at the quest where Hawke and Anders encounter Ser Alrik. What peaceful resolution would one be able to conjure up to a devout scumbag who is totally going to turn a girl tranquil, other than simply allowing him to do it? You couldn't pay him not to do it, nor convince him that it's mean and wrong, because, well, devout scumbag. So, the next and most obvious option is to kill him, along with everyone else following him.

 

It gets a little problematic if religion gets involved in the history talk (which it often can). I don't understand why it would be a problem with anything else.

[dragonagenewbie]

Yeah, I'm dropping out because this has turned into a circular argument as well.

 

I will say this, though:

 

 

I've said time and time again that I don't expect them to "have cutscenes for everything," I expect them to have at least one scene for this one thing.

 

Being an advocate for the "little people" is supposedly a huge part of Sera's character, yet we don't have one scene of her actually interacting with or doing anything directly for them. We've got tons of scenes of her hanging out at taverns by herself or screwing around with / killing nobles because she finds it funny, but NONE of her actions actually benefiting the common folk? I'm sorry, but they should have budgeted it in. At least if they wanted everyone to take the whole "she cares about / is doing this for the common folk" thing seriously.

 

A five second scene of tavern patrons witnessing Cullen angrily yelling "All right, who messed with my desk?!" and then snickering into their tankards would have been all I needed to confirm that Sera's pranks not only really was for them, but that they worked in boosting morale. If it would have been oh-so-expensive to animate that one little scene... well, I'm sorry, but they should have rethought which scenes were essential and which weren't.

 

EDIT: But, clearly I'm not going to change your mind or vice-versa, so I'm done.

 

Change my mind about what? you mean the animations? just FYI i agree that there are not enough animations to show key plot points or things about characters backgrounds or whatever.  You dont need to change my mind about animations...you need to change Bioware's mind about that.  I was simply pointing to Honoko that because of that limitation in game mechanics we actually do not see the results of her pranks.  Aside from Josie and Cullens reactions that is. And in other games, i cant remember which one, i've actually had to call out other people because i believe they were trying to use an in game limitation to explain a lore or story bit.

[dragonagenewbie]

So the answer is you have none. You have no source to support what you are saying, and are only using your headcanon. Figured as much. Well, this conversation is over since one can't argue against headcanon.

To quote Saren from Mass Effect: "Are we allowing dreams into evidence now? How can I defend myself against this kind of testimony?" 

Have a pleasant day. 

 

What do you mean my headcanon?  i never specifically said that she was successful in her attempts to raise morale. My first post addressing it I said "she wanted to do some things to boost morale".  I might have said something ambiguous after that but i've always maintained that she is trying to do it. Because on top of us never being shown it via cutscenes i wasnt even expecting to see or read about the outcome in that same dialogue sequence.  They just went up to the rooms of the 3 advisors and by the time they get back to the Tavern everybody in Skyhold is happy? i dont think so.  Thats what i mean about me not expecting to see the results.

 

I think i might know why you and Ghost Gal get the impression that our discussion is going around in circles.  I get the feeling that we are having debate X and you two are talking points #1 and #2 while i am talking about point #3.  Then you say that i'm wrong when i dont even engage you or G.G. in either of your points.  Well...actually i did, but that was much later and only to tell you two that i dont care about your two points.  Not "dont care" as in i dont give a crap about what you say, but dont care as in i hear you and its true, but so what.  Because whether she is selfish or not a bully or not she can still do the things i was talking about (raising morale) ie my point #3 ie the only thing i cared about in our little debate.

[dragonagenewbie]

It's her actions that may make her seem like one (aka around the Dalish Inquistor, and tellin' them that their beliefs mean jackshite and that their non existent and that they shouldn't believe in demons, etc.) So yeah, she doesn't need to do that, ir's her actions that say otherwise. 

 

I'll post a reply to you because i dont want to seem rude.  But people were coming up to me saying Sera was selfish and a bully.  But i didnt care about that...i even acknowledged that yes she was a bully.  Ohh and just because i havent formally submitted paperwork in triplicate about her selfishness doesnt mean i think she isnt selfish either.  But see all I care about...is what she was trying to do for the people at Skyhold.  Cause answer me this...whether a person is a scumbag or a saint...they can still do something charitable right? i'm sure the scumbag has motives and the saint not so much but unless the motives are something really serious then i dont care.

[straykat]

I'll post a reply to you because i dont want to seem rude.  But people were coming up to me saying Sera was selfish and a bully.  But i didnt care about that...i even acknowledged that yes she was a bully.  Ohh and just because i havent formally submitted paperwork in triplicate about her selfishness doesnt mean i think she isnt selfish either.  But see all I care about...is what she was trying to do for the people at Skyhold.  Cause answer me this...whether a person is a scumbag or a saint...they can still do something charitable right? i'm sure the scumbag has motives and the saint not so much but unless the motives are something really serious then i dont care.

 

I'd even admit she was a bully. But I thought she was spot-on about it. And now I'm even more convinced. I never liked Solas to begin with, and now he's given me every reason to justify it.

[Dutchess]

Yes, she can be childish, but ultimately, she can see the massive inequality and injustice inherent in Thedas' society and is fighting it the only way someone in her position can.

 

By stealing people's breeches?

[straykat]

By stealing people's breeches?

 

Are you a personal victim of hers.... Duchess?

[vertigomez]

By stealing people's breeches?

Well, they're not going to feel very dignified giving orders to the plebs when they're naked from the waist down.

[straykat]

I should add that I love the writer.. Lukas K. So that's partly my bias. I think he had a bigger hand in DA2, so it kind of makes if people don't like Sera either. He did a lot of Sarcastic Hawke, Aveline.. the whole Arishok plot... among other things. I think he's got a good feel for urban stuff.

[vertigomez]

I should add that I love the writer.. Lukas K. So that's partly my bias. I think he had a bigger hand in DA2, so it kind of makes if people don't like Sera either. He did a lot of Sarcastic Hawke, Aveline.. the whole Arishok plot... among other things. I think he's got a good feel for urban stuff.

He wrote Carver, too.

Dang, I think I like everything he writes...

[dragonagenewbie]

I should add that I love the writer.. Lukas K. So that's partly my bias. I think he had a bigger hand in DA2, so it kind of makes if people don't like Sera either. He did a lot of Sarcastic Hawke, Aveline.. the whole Arishok plot... among other things. I think he's got a good feel for urban stuff.

 

oh reaaaaaally? gonna have to see who Lukas wrote for in the ME3 too cause i've been thinking about getting that.

[straykat]

oh reaaaaaally? gonna have to see who Lukas wrote for in the ME3 too cause i've been thinking about getting that.

 

I don't think he wrote for ME3...

 

I hate to admit he had a hand in Jacob in ME2 though. That could have been.....better lol

[dragonagenewbie]

I don't think he wrote for ME3...

 

I hate to admit he had a hand in Jacob in ME2 though. That could have been.....better lol

 

yah i just checked, dont think i saw anything.  Hmm...maybe i'll do a bit of ME3 modding and port Sera's head onto Ashley or something.  I bet Sera would look good in an N7 suit

[Tidus]

I hate Vivienne,Solas and Sten (DA:O) and no longer recruit them. Sera I love.. Unlike Cass,Leliana,Josie and Cullen she's not blinded by "Oh,he/she must be the Herald of Andraste  because of that mark on his/her hand and he/she can close breaches".  She's exactly what the Inquisitor needs a voice of common sense.

 

Even after its reveal that mark was a freak accident in a moment  of confusion. Most Holy Justinia  slaps the orb out of Corypheus's hand and (say) Lavellan picks it up like  its a ground ball rolling into centerfield. I wonder if he/she was singing  John Fogerty's  "Centerfield"?

 

In my game Lavellan tells Cassandra he/she believes in the Elvan Gods yet,they insist on calling him/her the Herald of Andraste.

[straykat]

I hate Vivienne,Solas and Sten (DA:O) and no longer recruit them. Sera I love.. Unlike Cass,Leliana,Josie and Cullen she's not blinded by "Oh,he/she must be the Herald of Andraste  because of that mark on his/her hand and he/she can close breaches". 

 

Even after its reveal that mark was a freak accident in a moment  of confusion. Most Holy Justinia  slaps the orb out of Corypheus's hand and (say) Lavellan picks it up like  its a ground ball rolling into centerfield. I wonder if he was singing John Fogerty's "Centerfield"?

 

I like Cass and Leli and co, but yeah... I think Sera is better off for this. And I think she's more staunchly Andrastian than they are despite that. She holds her ground far more. They watered down their beliefs to be accepting to the point of absurdity. 

[PhroXenGold]

By stealing people's breeches?

 

Yes.

 

And killing them of course. The corrupt oppressive ruling class that is, not the breeches. Why anyone would want to kill breeches is beyond me.

[DEUGH Man]

She has the personality of a puppy with ADHD that happens to know English and never shuts up, i.e the type of person I get tempted to head butt in real life when they won't shut up.

 

Basically, because I'm a grouch who likes peace, quiet and coherence.