2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

Straykat,I agree the other four waters down  their belief and may even spread the tall tale  that a common Elf,Qunari or Hume is the Herald just to boost morale of the people due to the death of  Justinia. 

 

I can understand that  seeing the Chantry is in shambles,the sky is ripped open,demons abound, the Templars no longer care about anything except killing mages and anybody they think is a mage or stands in their way. The mages are scared and running amuck. A Tevinter has taken over Redcliff and basically drove the Arl and his Army off.

 

 

In all this darkness comes a Elf that speaks her mind and people hate her..

 

Roughly:

 

Cassandra: Sera,You say you believe in the maker but,yet you steal.

 

Sera: You believe in the maker and you kill.. 

 

Solas hates Sera because she's not "Elffy" like he is and sees the vanity of clinging to a long lost past that can never return. In that light Sera seems more mature then the majority of the Dalish and Solas.

[Dutchess]

Are you a personal victim of hers.... Duchess?

 

My skirt is still where it should be, thankfully. 

 

I can get behind the childish pranks and sabotage being a form of defiance and her way of screwing with the rich people. I don't really consider that fighting back though, and definitely not for the benefit of all the poor, little people. Killing ******* employers is a questionable way of helping as well. Sure, the jerk is now dead, but so is the little person's source of income. And your boss doesn't have to die for you to be able to switch jobs. Unless the hope is that the mean rich person gets replaced by a nicer one, nothing is gained. 

 

Nothing Sera does or says showed her as the defender of the common people she is claimed to be. She actually disapproves of what I can recall as the one big choice that potentially has a big impact on city elves: helping Briala to get in power. Sera's reason for disapproving is skepticism about Briala sticking to her promises and intentions once she is one of the big shots. And sure, power corrupts. It remains to be seen how much Briala can and will do to improve the lives of the elves in Orlais. But out of the three available candidates? Celene has already ordered an Alienage purge before or something along those lines. Gascard just wants to go to war with Ferelden again and is unlikely to have the elves high up in his agenda, if anywhere at all. Briala at least seems to care and willing to try something. But Sera never even uttered a word about those poor little people and what the ruler of Orlais could do for them. Maybe those elves are too little for her? Because they have a vhenadahl tree and try to uphold a tiny bit of their elfiness? 

 

Ultimately she's a very random character. Too random to seem believable to me. A character can be immature, rude, intolerant, a hypocrite and much more and that's fine. It won't make me like the character but it doesn't mean they're bad. But Sera is a lot of those bad traits mashed together, the mention of some more positive traits she then doesn't live up to or act on, and made whole with an incoherent speech pattern. Not a very likable character and, worse, not a very good one either, as far as I'm concerned.

[Seraphim24]

Yeah Sera was basically supposed to be some kind of Elven ressurection character, not the kind of tepid Dalish/City Elf but more active, but then was basically transformed into the edgy/butch stereotype for some reason.

[dragonagenewbie]

My skirt is still where it should be, thankfully. 

 

Killing ******* employers is a questionable way of helping as well. Sure, the jerk is now dead, but so is the little person's source of income. And your boss doesn't have to die for you to be able to switch jobs.

 

Nothing Sera does or says showed her as the defender of the common people she is claimed to be.

 

and made whole with an incoherent speech pattern.

 

This is a feudal system though...i dont think its as simple as "noble dies and people dont get paid".  I'm a bit rusty on my medieval knowledge. But some commoners get paid wages i'm sure, but arent most of them land owners who rent land from the noble and were heavily taxed by that noble?  I suppose if there's an heir then the taxes get paid to the nobles heir? but if there isnt an heir and that nobles land opens up to whoever i dont know what happens to the taxing process either. Ehh i'm not really sure...but i just know that in one of Sera's quest you help commoners that have been forced out of their land by a squabble between two nobs. So in that particular case not getting paid is probably the least of their worries.

 

Her defense of the common people is only spoken of in quest dialogue and not shown.  I'm sure there are other members on this thread who would be more than happy to fill you in on why that is if you ask them.

 

The incoherent speech thing is part of her character.  She was born on the streets not in a schoolyard.  Its incoherent yes, but once deciphered it does have meaning (mostly).  Funny story about that, but a few weeks ago i was in a thread and someone was all "i've worked as an EMT in Florida and New York and i have no idea what she's saying!".   But I understand her fine (mostly hehe) but thats because i've been to places like Scotland and the UK.  Also i watch a lot of British-ey shows and movies.  Light slang i can understand but really heavy slang is harder to understand. Like the kind of stuff in the video below.  To you or me what he says may barely make and sense but to someone from the same area as him they'd probably understand him.

 

[GoldenGail3]

I'll post a reply to you because i dont want to seem rude.  But people were coming up to me saying Sera was selfish and a bully.  But i didnt care about that...i even acknowledged that yes she was a bully.  Ohh and just because i havent formally submitted paperwork in triplicate about her selfishness doesnt mean i think she isnt selfish either.  But see all I care about...is what she was trying to do for the people at Skyhold.  Cause answer me this...whether a person is a scumbag or a saint...they can still do something charitable right? i'm sure the scumbag has motives and the saint not so much but unless the motives are something really serious then i dont care.

For what? Her stealing their underwear was a bully move, she's selfish for not taking her inherited cash and putting it for a good cause, and maybe even using the estate she was given and making it a house for someone else - that's rather selfish if you ask me. 

[ModernAcademic]

Well, to be honest this thread should have been locked on multiple occasions since a few times things have gotten a lot worse than this on here. But don't worry, I'm dropping that part unless they get really bad since it is clear that at this moment nothing will be achieved by continuing. I try to be civil and they just get worse and worse, so why bother? 

 

Thank you. I mean it. And believe me, there must be more people following the ongoing discussion who appreciate the gesture.

 

I've been reading the discussion and there have been some very interesting arguments made pro and against Sera's character as a whole. For someone who's a big fan of Inquisition - much like everyone else engaged in the discussion - it's given me a lot to think about, not only about her character, but about Thedas' fictional society and social conflicts on a broader scale.

 

Games have this amazing quality of serving as a projection of real world issues in a way that makes them easier to understand and to discuss. The whole deal about Sera and her relationship with the upper and the lower classes paves the way for the discussion of a wider range of topics that go far beyond the poor vs the rich. And judging from the latest posts, starting from page ninety-something, I think some people have managed to nail her character so perfectly it's now impossible to just love Sera or hate her. The discussion has evolved beyond a simplistic view of the character.

 

All in all, so far it's being an enlightening experience. I haven't written much on the subject because the discussion has gone into such a deep analysis that if I were to keep up with it, I'd most likely fail. So please, don't let anyone ruin your day because they feel like dragging personal issues in the middle of a engaging discussion.

[jlb524]

I don't think he wrote for ME3...

 

I hate to admit he had a hand in Jacob in ME2 though. That could have been.....better lol

 

I pretty sure Lukas is writing on ME:A though, so there's that.

 

And Jacob's romance scene was the only one I remember from ME2 so I'll give him that xD

[dragonagenewbie]

For what? Her stealing their underwear was a bully move, she's selfish for not taking her inherited cash and putting it for a good cause, and maybe even using the estate she was given and making it a house for someone else - that's rather selfish if you ask me. 

 

 

My previous post (that you quoted) pretty much answers all of this.

 

But people were coming up to me saying Sera was selfish and a bully.  But i didnt care about that...i even acknowledged that yes she was a bully.  Ohh and just because i havent formally submitted paperwork in triplicate about her selfishness doesnt mean i think she isnt selfish either.  But see all I care about...is what she was trying to do for the people at Skyhold

 

To put it in simpler terms the exchange on the thread has been kinda like this:

 

-these people said these two things are true

-i said yes it is true, but i dont care about that i care about this other thing

-now you say that these two things are true

-i say again that yes i've already said that they are true but i still only care about this other thing

-you say again that these two things are true and here are other examples proving that

-now i'm sitting here saying "wot"

[Pasquale1234]

OK so i did some digging up in some videos and now i'm wondering...
 
Leliana is definately a prankster according to in game dialogue.

Aveline can make this comment in the Chantry during Act 2 of DA2: "I'm uncomfortable around chantry sisters. All because of that red-haired trickster in Lothering."

Apparently Leliana pranked Aveline pretty hard.

[dragonagenewbie]

Aveline can make this comment in the Chantry during Act 2 of DA2: "I'm uncomfortable around chantry sisters. All because of that red-haired trickster in Lothering."

Apparently Leliana pranked Aveline pretty hard.

 

 

Hehehe thats awesome, in addition to ME3 i've also been thinking about getting DA2 and maybe DAO just to see what the rest of the story looks like.  I'm gonna have to look that up in DA2 when i get it.

[Pasquale1234]

Hehehe thats awesome, in addition to ME3 i've also been thinking about getting DA2 and maybe DAO just to see what the rest of the story looks like.  I'm gonna have to look that up in DA2 when i get it.

Personally - I can't imagine playing DAI without having first played the others. Since you've already played DAI, though, some of the mysteries of the first 2 won't be there for you. Like who / what is Flemeth? Will we ever see Morrigan again, and what about the OGB? Playing along as they've been released has been great fun, seeing additional lore and stories unfold, and mysteries solved.

Seriously - do it.

[Pasquale1234]

The ends don't justify the means, and if you have to sink to their level to beat them you are no better then them so nothing has changed.

Does serving as judge, jury, and executioner involve sinking or rising? I ask because that's the privilege granted to those of noble birth - or those who happened to have survived the Conclave and are able to seal rifts.

[Dutchess]

Aveline can make this comment in the Chantry during Act 2 of DA2: "I'm uncomfortable around chantry sisters. All because of that red-haired trickster in Lothering."

Apparently Leliana pranked Aveline pretty hard.

I doubt Aveline disliked Leliana because of pranks. Leliana's rebellious and prankster days were over by the time she sought refuge in the Lothering Chantry. She really took up the quiet, contemplative cloister life for a while. I think Aveline meant that she suspected/felt that Leliana was more than the lay sister she appeared to be and used trickster in that context.

[Tidus]

Dutchess,I always did think there was more to Leliana in DA:O then just some humble lay sister that pops out of the blue,joins a fight against Loghain soldiers and begs to join the group because of a "vision" she had.

 

As we find out in DA:I her love for the warden was true but,still she lied.(roughly)"You're the last thing I see before going to bed  and the first thing I see when I get up in the morning..I never want that to change." Next game she's Sister Nightingale then we see her as the Inquisition's spymaster. Poor Tidus, no wonder he turn into a drunk and throws darts at Leliana's painting.. 

[Shechinah]

Source? The game doesn't show a single person being happy with the pranks Sera pulls. Well, that's not true they do show one person: Sera. 

 

This is more or less the thought that I've had about it and I am not so sure it was intentional on the part of the writers. I cannot recall having seen indications that it improved morale either.

 

I've got nothing against pranking so long as the prankster(s) only do it to people they know would not mind or would enjoy it. The thing about Sera is that I got the impression she's the type who pranks people for her own amusement without consideration for others and that if someone complains about it, she'd be the type to tell them that they should learn to take a joke. I hate this type so much.
 

[straykat]

Dutchess,I always did think there was more to Leliana in DA:O then just some humble lay sister that pops out of the blue,joins a fight against Loghain soldiers and begs to join the group because of a "vision" she had.

 

As we find out in DA:I her love for the warden was true but,still she lied.(roughly)"You're the last thing I see before going to bed  and the first thing I see when I get up in the morning..I never want that to change." Next game she's Sister Nightingale then we see her as the Inquisition's spymaster. Poor Tidus, no wonder he turn into a drunk and throws darts at Leliana's painting.. 

 

I almost always die in DAO, so her behavior makes sense to me. It's really confusing otherwise. And maybe sadder.

[Shechinah]

I havent played ME3 but let me ask you this.  What would people think if there were 3 dialogue choices or 3 endings and all 3 were the same? i've played a bit of Fallout 4 and a lot of people there say that having 3-4 dialogue choices and the same outcome for each one kinda sucks.  Its like you are saying yes but just in 4 different ways.

 
I am disinclined to engage in a discussion about the endings of Mass Effect 3 in this thread because of how often it end up derailing a thread even unintentionally so I'll say that it is a topic for a different thread in a different section of the forums.
 

OK so with companions...the game has a pool of 9 companions. If all those companions were do-gooders how do you think players will feel? some people will be happy no doubt. But some people *like* playing with malcontents. I dont understand why anyone would like to have Skadge from SWTOR as a comp. But my understanding is irrelevant...as long as people have fun playing with Skadge is all that matters. Now i wont ask for malcontent or undesirable companions to be removed, but i will ask that i am never forced into interacting with them. Having them be forced into my party for example...i can stand to look at Vivienne or Coles faces in game that wont bother me.

Another thing too is that BW seems to like adding a varied group of comps personality-wise in their games. So you ask for Cole, Sera, and Viv to be removed (i'm guessing the 3 most unpopular comps due to their behavior). Well who do you replace them with? You gonna replace the weirdo, the foulmouth and the beehatch with 3 same-but-slightly-different versions of Cassandra, Varric and Iron Bull? I think that the weirdo, foulmouth and beehatch should be replaced with another type of weirdo/foulmouth/beehatch. And for people that dont want to have to put up with those? there's the option to not recruit them, not bring them with you to quest and so on. But asking for an undesirable comp to be removed just because you dont like it when its clear that other people like it is selfish. I wont say that you guys cant give feedback, but if your feedback is selfish then i'll tell you you're being selfish.

 
Now that may be my memory slipping as it is wont to do from time to time but I do not recall having expressed a desire to see companions of diverse beliefs and morality be removed and replaced with companions of similar beliefs and morality.

 

Just as there are plenty of amoral and downright morally corrupt characters that I dislike, there is also plenty of amoral and downright morally corrupt characters that I do like. It's the same with characters that are moral and morally incorruptible; some I like, some I dislike. It varies from character to character in part because each character tend to be different and so the traits that makes me dislike one character is not necessarily present in another character that I like. 
 
Additionally, I've never asked for elements that I dislike to be removed from a released product; I've asked for their presence to be toned down or for them to be absent in future products unless their presence is of importance.  I wrote this very thing in the very post you are quoting;  "I am not advocating the removal of the endings in the Mass Effect 3; I am requesting that the elements I disliked are either toned down or are absent in future installments. I am expressing what I dislike about a product and what could impact my interest in future products in the series.

[straykat]

I think Sera fits very well, despite the ethical concerns. She claims to stand for common people, so she shares a big goal with the Inquisition.. and she's Andrastian in her own way (and like I said earlier, she's stubborn about that basic worldview more than some flagship Andrastians). She isn't coming entirely from left field -- and those are the characters I'm more annoyed with. Bull is the biggest culprit for me. Cole is kind of iffy... it actually makes more sense to me if you met him in the Templar quest. It feels personal then. Otherwise, it's just sheer novelty.

[Pasquale1234]

This is more or less the thought that I've had about it and I am not so sure it was intentional on the part of the writers. I cannot recall having seen indications that it improved morale either.

She makes a comment during the pranking scene - something to the effect of "one hour of wet ambassador makes two weeks of happy kitchen staff". Even though we saw no cutscenes showing the effects of the pranks, I took that comment to mean that some of the little people around Skyhold were amused by them.

Maybe they intentionally didn't show any results so people could headcanon it? People do seem to have pretty strong opinions about it.
 

I've got nothing against pranking so long as the prankster(s) only do it to people they know would not mind or would enjoy it. The thing about Sera is that I got the impression she's the type who pranks people for her own amusement without consideration for others and that if someone complains about it, she'd be the type to tell them that they should learn to take a joke. I hate this type so much.

I'm not fond of pranksters IRL, and don't care much for slapstick "comedy", either - though I understand that some people enjoy both.

But the characters I play can have different opinions about these things. I roleplayed my first Inquisitor (Vashoth mercenary) as someone whose merc team frequently pranked one another, and it improved morale, so she went along with it. My current character is a Trevelyan who takes herself fairly seriously, and probably won't want anything to do with it.

[Shechinah]

She makes a comment during the pranking scene - something to the effect of "one hour of wet ambassador makes two weeks of happy kitchen staff". Even though we saw no cutscenes showing the effects of the pranks, I took that comment to mean that some of the little people around Skyhold were amused by them.

Maybe they intentionally didn't show any results so people could headcanon it? People do seem to have pretty strong opinions about it.

 

Which is where I feel that the team should have included conversation snippets or brief scenes with the common people sharing their opinion of it such as with some finding it amusing and others not. It could be something as small as this;

 

Servant: "Did you hear? Someone put a bucket of water over the lady Josephine's door. Her silly, frilly thing thing was all drenched. Had to rush back to her room as fast as she could to change."

Servant: "Who would do such a thing to lady Josephine? She's so nice even smiles and greet us when we come by with the food.  Poor woman, she must have felt so humiliated."

Servant: "Well, I thought it was funny!"

Servant: "How would you like to have a bucket of water turned over your head?"

 

Not everybody shares the same sense of humor and opinion of such so it would only make sense that the common people would likewise have different opinions on it.

[Pasquale1234]

Which is where I feel that the team should have included conversation snippets or brief scenes with the common people sharing their opinion of it such as with some finding it amusing and others not. Not everybody shares the same sense of humor and opinion of such so it would only make sense that the common people would likewise have different opinions on it.

What would that have accomplished?

[IHaveReturned1999]

Given that "elven heritage" is a combination of dodgy mythology glorifying an oppressive society, and longing for a past that never actually existed, I'm not sure why it's bad to not want anything to do with it....

Sera is one of the few sane elves we meet. She knows that stuff is all crap and wants to build a better world rather than just whining about the past.

It's like forgetting history and only a complete idiot would ignore one's history, and Sera is beyond repair from the start because she hated herself ever since she was a kid @ the Alienage. Because of the system of racism plagues the psyche of elves who were oppressed by human supremacy and the Chantry castrates the elven spirituality to worship humans as their gods. It seems BioWare is telling truths about racism against PoC after all.

Modifié par IHaveReturned1999, 15 juillet 2016 - 05:29 .

[straykat]

It's like forgetting history and only a complete idiot would ignore one's history, and Sera is beyond repair fromnthe start because she hated herself when she was a kid @ the Alienage. Becauze of the system of racism plagues the psyche of elves who were oppressed by human supremacy and the Chantry castrates the elven spirituality to worship humans as their gods. It seems BioWare is telling truths about racism against PoC after all.

 

Sera doesn't hate herself. Stop projecting.

 

She just sees herself as "Sera". Not everyone is a slave to groupthink like you.

[Shechinah]

What would that have accomplished?

 

Eh, I just thought it would be a good follow-up since Sera claims it would boost moral.
 

[IHaveReturned1999]

Sera doesn't hate herself. Stop projecting.

She just sees herself as "Sera". Not everyone is a slave to groupthink like you.

I never even expect everyone to think like me so what is your point? She does hate herself because she doesn't like elves, and she doesn't like my elven Inquisitor because my character refuses to forget about the Ancient history of elves. She is sick in the head and refuses to acknowledge her sickness.