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[Kabraxal]

I think you're missing the point.

Why would anyone who is not an Orlesian Imperialist support Gaspard?

The Inquisitor is *supposed* to be trying to restore peace and stability - at least that's my interpretation of the role. Putting a warmonger on the throne is anathema to that goal.

A typical outsider (like my Inquisitor) is mostly going to see that Orlais has enjoyed years of peace and prosperity under Empress Celene. Behind-the-scenes Orlesian political antics and The Game are probably going to continue apace regardless of who occupies the throne.
 

Since when does war not involve mass murder?

Regardless of anyone's claims about who should be the rightful ruler, Celene is the ruler. Any attempt to unseat her will result in bloodshed, and a variety of other collateral damage.

 

O I roleplayed many Inquisitors that supported Celene because of being unaware at how unhinged she is.  Though, most tried to reconcile the three to try and cease the hostilities.  They felt that was the best at sustaining peace at the time.

 

I had a few elves that couldn't stand Gaspard and they chose Celene and reconciled her with Brialla so the elves had a better chance than not.  But again, there was no knowledge that Celene only does things for the elves because of Brialla. With no Brialla the elves are fucked. 

 

With the more pragmatic Inquisitor, I chose Gaspard because I wanted the military mind to support the Inquisition. And even though he understood the possibility of an expansive war, he figured it was easier to deal with a general on the throne than a trained Bard.  Which was more or less known even without the book. 

 

This last run I RP'd that Leliana and her network informed the Inquisitor of the suspicions around Celene, given that Leliana is clearly aware of much more than the game shows (wish TME was shown more in game, but not sure how it could have been done).  Celene could not be trusted in power... she could change her mind without warning and suddenly the Inquisition is left hanging or simply has to clean up more of her psychotic mess.  Obviously, Gaspard wasn't the best choice, but blackmailed him with ease and the real power lies with Brialla.  And, in metagaming terms, that is probably the best outcome since you give power to someone that is relatively reasonable, actually does give a damn, and it also should keep her and her elves from joining Solas outright.  

 

The next run I will see how it plays out, though with Leliana's nudging to oust Celene and the clear approval of Brialla being the Shadow Empress lends itself to multiple RPs taking that route now.  Though, if my Inquisitor is distrustful of the Spymaster, they might not heed her advice over Cullen or the diplomat Josie.  But the simple fact that the most knowledgeable person in the Inquisition of Orlais and the inner workings of the political situation (because she is a former bard, the left hand of an organization centred in Orlais, and a spymaster) is advising the Inquisitor for a certain set up should have sent up warning flags to me and the outsiders that are my Inquisitors.  How I dismissed that advice is a bit baffling... usually my Inquisitor's weigh all three advisor suggestions carefully, but many leaned in favour of all three being in a truce with no real good reason other than my metagame thinking of "truce is good...". 

 

For in game reasons, the best choices are actually Gaspard alone or Gaspard with Brialla since one is military based and the other has the backing of the more informed advisor.  I can't actually point to any in game reason why Celene was a good choice for the Inquisition now that I stop and think about it. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

O I roleplayed many Inquisitors that supported Celene because of being unaware at how unhinged she is.  Though, most tried to reconcile the three to try and cease the hostilities.  They felt that was the best at sustaining peace at the time.

 

I had a few elves that couldn't stand Gaspard and they chose Celene and reconciled her with Brialla so the elves had a better chance than not.  But again, there was no knowledge that Celene only does things for the elves because of Brialla. With no Brialla the elves are fucked. 

 

With the more pragmatic Inquisitor, I chose Gaspard because I wanted the military mind to support the Inquisition. And even though he understood the possibility of an expansive war, he figured it was easier to deal with a general on the throne than a trained Bard.  Which was more or less known even without the book. 

 

This last run I RP'd that Leliana and her network informed the Inquisitor of the suspicions around Celene, given that Leliana is clearly aware of much more than the game shows (wish TME was shown more in game, but not sure how it could have been done).  Celene could not be trusted in power... she could change her mind without warning and suddenly the Inquisition is left hanging or simply has to clean up more of her psychotic mess.  Obviously, Gaspard wasn't the best choice, but blackmailed him with ease and the real power lies with Brialla.  And, in metagaming terms, that is probably the best outcome since you give power to someone that is relatively reasonable, actually does give a damn, and it also should keep her and her elves from joining Solas outright.  

 

The next run I will see how it plays out, though with Leliana's nudging to oust Celene and the clear approval of Brialla being the Shadow Empress lends itself to multiple RPs taking that route now.  Though, if my Inquisitor is distrustful of the Spymaster, they might not heed her advice over Cullen or the diplomat Josie.  But the simple fact that the most knowledgeable person in the Inquisition of Orlais and the inner workings of the political situation (because she is a former bard, the left hand of an organization centred in Orlais, and a spymaster) is advising the Inquisitor for a certain set up should have sent up warning flags to me and the outsiders that are my Inquisitors.  How I dismissed that advice is a bit baffling... usually my Inquisitor's weigh all three advisor suggestions carefully, but many leaned in favour of all three being in a truce. 

 

The Masked Empire simply made me look at the situation more clearly and see all the warning signs that Celene was not the right choice.  Before, I took those hints a different way or missed them. 
 

Except certain parts of the game clearly show that you don't know about events from Masked Empire, so you can't RP that you know metagame knowledge.

[Kabraxal]

Except certain parts of the game clearly show that you don't know about events from Masked Empire, so you can't RP that you know metagame knowledge.

 

Except we have a spymaster that is clearly advising to let Celene die, though you know she doesn't actually support Gaspard either.  That alone should have flagged my attention before, but it took TME to kick me in the ass and finally take note that there are no in game reasons for why Celene is actually the correct choice. It merely is "it's the status quo". 

 

Nothing in game proves she is a great ruler or that she has contributed much to the betterment of Orlais given it is in Civil war and the Elves are rebelling... quite clearly, I should have been questioning her ability to rule from the start, but I metagamed much for those roleplays just based on my, not my Inquisitor's thinking, that truce is best and that letting Celene die is bad.  It might not be much, but Leliana's advice is actually quite telling and something that I just never took into account for some reason. 

 

So I couldn't claim a pure RP on the choice before TME, let alone making a choice based because of it now.
 

[draken-heart]

Just going to interject here, and ask this. How does Celene vs Gaspard relate to people hating Sera?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Except we have a spymaster that is clearly advising to let Celene die, though you know she doesn't actually support Gaspard either.  That alone should have flagged my attention before, but it took TME to kick me in the ass and finally take note that there are no in game reasons for why Celene is actually the correct choice. It merely is "it's the status quo". 

 

Nothing in game proves she is a great ruler or that she has contributed much to the betterment of Orlais given it is in Civil war and the Elves are rebelling... quite clearly, I should have been questioning her ability to rule from the start, but I metagamed much for those roleplays just based on my, not my Inquisitor's thinking, that truce is best and that letting Celene die is bad.  It might not be much, but Leliana's advice is actually quite telling and something that I just never took into account for some reason. 

 

So I couldn't claim a pure RP on the choice before TME, let alone making a choice based because of it now.
 

Apart from you know, the lore outright stating Celene brought Orlais out from the brink of collapse after Florian died and creating a new era of culture while encouraging things like education with the University of Orlais.

 

 

Also, Leliana supports Briala because she wants to help elves, not because Celene is a terrible ruler. 

[actionhero112]

Apart from you know, the lore outright stating Celene brought Orlais out from the brink of collapse after Florian died and creating a new era of culture while encouraging things like education with the University of Orlais.

 

 

Also, Leliana supports Briala because she wants to help elves, not because Celene is a terrible ruler. 

 

 

Wait, not to diminish Celene, but a vast improvement in culture usually results from artists, writers and musicians (Ty Civ 5). Did Celene choose to dedicate more money to supporting the arts, or is this just something that happened under her rule? 

 

Basically how was she the progenitor of the uplifting of the Orlesian people? How can you specifically tie that to her rule? 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Wait, not to diminish Celene, but a vast improvement in culture usually results from artists, writers and musicians (Ty Civ 5). Did Celene choose to dedicate more money to supporting the arts, or is this just something that happened under her rule? 

 

Basically how was she the progenitor of the uplifting of the Orlesian people? How can you specifically tie that to her rule? 

WOT pretty much says that yes, she sponsored artists and intellectuals. Because she advocated it, everyone started to support Orlesian arts and culture to gain Celene's support. She also created the University of Orlais.

[The Elder King]

Merrill's stubborn refusal to cooperate with her Keeper created the conditions that led those other parties to make those choices.Marethari *probably* should have simply exiled Merrill, and not allowed her access to the camp, the Arulin'Holm, etc. She had apparently warned her people about Merrill's activities, which resulted in Pol's death. Yep. I still think there were a lot of hands on the idiot ball, and multiple parties bear blame.

I didn't mean that she didn't warn the clan about Merrill's blood magic (though she might have gone too far, considering that Pol preferred to face a deadly monster then talk to Merril. Considering she herself didn't think Merril was capable of hurting her fepw dalish, otherwise she would've been less lenient with her, the way the dalish treated Merril was idiotic). What I mean is that she didn't warn them about the possession part, so her clan didn't have a clue and would've been taken by surprise by the demon.

I don't agree with the methods Merril used to pursue her goal, as Well as her obsession (to the point she Forgot to sleep and eat). But she didn't have faults for what happened in Act 3, other then her decision to pursue blood magic being the first trigger of the following events.
Which is fine, if you think so. I simply don't see it that way. Regardless of my opinion on what she did, she was free to decide to pursue blood magic, and be exiled, or worse if the dalish would've chosen to do so. After that Marethari had all the options to block Merril, she wasn't forced to get possessed (even before Merril actually formed the intention to go again to the demon). She wasn't forced to take that path, since there were others to follow through.
I'd agree that Merril was responsible for Marethari and possible the dalish's death if being possessed was Marethari's only option, but it wasn't.

[Kabraxal]

Apart from you know, the lore outright stating Celene brought Orlais out from the brink of collapse after Florian died and creating a new era of culture while encouraging things like education with the University of Orlais.

 

 

Also, Leliana supports Briala because she wants to help elves, not because Celene is a terrible ruler. 

 

Your assumption of Leliana's motives is not wholly supported in game and certainly not by the dissatisfaction shown in the book in regards to the mess around Celene. 

 

Also, while the lore is a minor point, it isn't wholly supported in game given that Orlais is in Civil War, the elves are in rebellion, and she is shown to care more about the politics of a situation then the reality in requiring the Inquisition to jump through hoops to get support.  The actual evidence within the game in terms of actions and consequence don't really favour Celene, especially from reasons born from role playing.  If I am to be honest and discount TME completely, then Gaspard is clearly the better choice.  He has strong support, he is a good military mind, his scenes are less political mummery, and his racism and bloodthirsty nature is not really shown at all.  Celene's scenes show very little to warrant choosing her and Brialla's influence is completely hidden away.  Outside of Leliana's urging, there is no good reason to choose Celene that is justifiable from within a role play with on access to the information presented in TME. 

 

If we actually add the book into this, then all that is demolished given that Brialla's influence is the biggest reason Orlais has shown cultural growth and Celene was directly involved with the whole mess that pushed Orlais to the brink of disaster and Gaspard is shown for the racist, blood thirsty general he is.  Which shouldn't be a surprise given the lore is written as in universe and we have seen many "historical facts" disproven in pretty much every game. They aren't the word of god via the writers, just history through the eyes of those from within Thedas.  Remember, there are those that would write Loghain's history in universe entirely different than what most of us gamers would.

 

WOT pretty much says that yes, she sponsored artists and intellectuals. Because she advocated it, everyone started to support Orlesian arts and culture to gain Celene's support. She also created the University of Orlais.

 

If we take WoT, which is written as an in universe history, then TME is actually more significant as evidence against Celene.  TME is the actual events through a more impartial eye instead of a historical article written by someone from within Thedas.  There is clear conflict with the "truth" of the lore and the actual truth from an unbiased source. 

 

Essentially, if we argue from pure role playing accessible information, Gaspard dominates the decision.  Even Leliana's urging can be misconstrued as Gaspard as the ruler instead of Brialla as the puppet master.  I admit, my RPs in the past were born from a judgement call I made, not my characters (well, outside an elf and the pragmatic human) and my current RP was more informed by TME than purely in game. 

 

As for Sera's take... well, she supports Celene less for stability, seeing as she has done a ****** poor job of it, and more for Gaspard's apparent blasé attitude towards his soldiers and commoners.  Though, after the event, you do find her not too happy with Celene either, given it is clear she gives no ***** either.  I actually like her reaction regardless of the choice because it is really boils down to "The people in charge suck...".  All the proof she needs as to why the Red Jennies exist and are needed.
 

[Pasquale1234]

O I roleplayed many Inquisitors that supported Celene because of being unaware at how unhinged she is.  Though, most tried to reconcile the three to try and cease the hostilities.  They felt that was the best at sustaining peace at the time.
 
I had a few elves that couldn't stand Gaspard and they chose Celene and reconciled her with Brialla so the elves had a better chance than not.  But again, there was no knowledge that Celene only does things for the elves because of Brialla. With no Brialla the elves are fucked. 
 
With the more pragmatic Inquisitor, I chose Gaspard because I wanted the military mind to support the Inquisition. And even though he understood the possibility of an expansive war, he figured it was easier to deal with a general on the throne than a trained Bard.  Which was more or less known even without the book.

I've played DAI only once, and have never consumed any of the material outside of the games. I plan to pay a lot closer attention to exactly what information the Inquisitor has at her disposal this next time - because that's the only info on which she should be deciding.

I also think it's fair to RP a character who would ask Leliana and Josephine what all they know about the situation and parties involved - though I'm not entirely sure exactly what either of them would say. And it's perfectly fair to expect your character - who actually lives in that world - to know more about that world than we do as players.

As for military support, my Inquisitors are generally very leery of any one faction growing military power. It might be fine if Gaspard truly does support the Inquisition - but not so fine when Gaspard instead withdraws that support and tries to take on the Inquisition himself. This is one of the reasons why my Inquisitors would generally prefer their allies remain relatively weak individually - it promotes peace and neutralizes any potential threat to the Inquisition.
 

I can't actually point to any in game reason why Celene was a good choice for the Inquisition now that I stop and think about it.

Because changing leadership always has costs, some of them pretty heavy. Unless the other candidates can demonstrate conclusively that the Inquisition (not Orlais, not any other individual faction) would be better off with them taking over, my Inquisitor isn't interested.

[Pasquale1234]

I didn't mean that she didn't warn the clan about Merrill's blood magic (though she might have gone too far, considering that Pol preferred to face a deadly monster then talk to Merril.

You can blame Marethari or Pol for Pol's death if you like - but that doesn't change the fact that Merrill should have seen the effect her actions were having on other people she supposedly cared about.

Civil law has a concept of contributory negligence, which essentially recognizes that multiple parties have the ability to act, and can thus contribute to harmful events. At no point have I claimed that Merrill is solely responsible, only that she shares in the blame.

[Barquiel]

Even without metagaming I can't think of any reason why my inquisitor would want to side with Gaspard. According to Josephine Celene was always a decent ruler who was peaceful and looked to strengthen Orlais via internal reforms rather than warmongering. And with Briala at her side, she would at least try to make the world a better place for the elves (that's why I reunite them).

Gaspard says elves have no place in politics even to an elven Inquisitor's face, and also says that he wants to invade Ferelden. Why should my Inquisitor support someone like him? War isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. Military support? He was never portrayed as as a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. In addition, has already broke his oath of loyalty to Celene for no good reason. So what would he care about an oath made to an elf/dwarf/qunari whom he thinks are below humans in the first place?

[draken-heart]

*Disgusted Noise* This Celene vs Gaspard thing is pointless. I find that the choice is not really Celene or Gaspard, but Celene alive or Celene dead. I do not think you can oust Celene if she lives (I.E. the player stops the assassination attempt).

[In Exile]

Analogy Court finds you guilty and demands that you pay a $5000 fine. It was Marethari's choice to get herself possessed, as it is later her clan's choice to launch an insane suicide attack on the Champion of Kirkwall if she commits the terrible crime of telling them the truth.


What are you talking about? It worked out perfectly; the Marethari abomination was killed, and Hawke can even wiggle her out of her clan's misguided wrath. Marethari had already been possessed by the beginning of Act 3, so nothing she could have done would have altered that outcome anyway.

In Act 3, Merrill doesn't know about the possession. Her plan is to confront Audacity. Her only anticipated danger - in fact the only danger she ever considers - is that she might get possessed. And her plan to deal with that is to have Hawke kill her. It's an awful plan.

Your analogy as to law doesn't work. It doesn't work because the law has many standards of culpability, including fault for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of your actions. That's a bad standard for Merrill, who only deals with one eventuality: her possible possession. Again, her theme is pride and her inability to appreciate that she might just be a patsy for audacity, and not the target at all.

[congokong]

Even without metagaming I can't think of any reason why my inquisitor would want to side with Gaspard. According to Josephine Celene was always a decent ruler who was peaceful and looked to strengthen Orlais via internal reforms rather than warmongering. And with Briala at her side, she would at least try to make the world a better place for the elves (that's why I reunite them).Gaspard says elves have no place in politics even to an elven Inquisitor's face, and also says that he wants to invade Ferelden. Why should my Inquisitor support someone like him? War isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. Military support? He was never portrayed as as a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. In addition, has already broke his oath of loyalty to Celene for no good reason. So what would he care about an oath made to an elf/dwarf/qunari whom he thinks are below humans in the first place?

Yes, choosing Gaspard feels redundant. You are passing up a sure thing for an unknown, where the best case scenario is pretty much what Celene already offers. It feels similar to choosing Morinth over Samara; the latter having already sworn to your cause.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Even without metagaming I can't think of any reason why my inquisitor would want to side with Gaspard. According to Josephine Celene was always a decent ruler who was peaceful and looked to strengthen Orlais via internal reforms rather than warmongering. And with Briala at her side, she would at least try to make the world a better place for the elves (that's why I reunite them).

Gaspard says elves have no place in politics even to an elven Inquisitor's face, and also says that he wants to invade Ferelden. Why should my Inquisitor support someone like him? War isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. Military support? He was never portrayed as as a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. In addition, has already broke his oath of loyalty to Celene for no good reason. So what would he care about an oath made to an elf/dwarf/qunari whom he thinks are below humans in the first place?

 

I chose Gaspard first time round.  My IQ had a few reasons...

 

1. She was very inexperienced and looked to Cullen and Cass for guidance.  They both preferred Gaspard. (Right?  I know Cass did but I'm not sure about Cullen come to think of it)

2. She was dwarf and didn't like Celene always playing 'the game', she thought it was daft.

3. She respected a more military focus.

4. She was from the Free Marches, so wasn't so Ferelden focused as Hawke and the Warden.

 

Although I admit, I was meta-gaming a little.  I looked at the 5 scenarios and picked which one I wanted for my world states.  Gaspard seemed to fit this world the best, but there was an underlying 'better pick him for one of them' thought in my head.

 

If I was playing once, or didn't want to try all the things, maybe my IQ would have pondered a little harder...

[Xilizhra]

In Act 3, Merrill doesn't know about the possession. Her plan is to confront Audacity. Her only anticipated danger - in fact the only danger she ever considers - is that she might get possessed. And her plan to deal with that is to have Hawke kill her. It's an awful plan.

 

Your analogy as to law doesn't work. It doesn't work because the law has many standards of culpability, including fault for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of your actions. That's a bad standard for Merrill, who only deals with one eventuality: her possible possession. Again, her theme is pride and her inability to appreciate that she might just be a patsy for audacity, and not the target at all.

Yes, Merrill's great failure was thinking too highly of her clan. Though I as well would not have guessed that Marethari would get herself possessed and that the rest of the clan would succumb to suicidal bloodthirst.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I chose Gaspard first time round.  My IQ had a few reasons...

 

1. She was very inexperienced and looked to Cullen and Cass for guidance.  They both preferred Gaspard. (Right?  I know Cass did but I'm not sure about Cullen come to think of it)

2. She was dwarf and didn't like Celene always playing 'the game', she thought it was daft.

3. She respected a more military focus.

4. She was from the Free Marches, so wasn't so Ferelden focused as Hawke and the Warden.

 

Although I admit, I was meta-gaming a little.  I looked at the 5 scenarios and picked which one I wanted for my world states.  Gaspard seemed to fit this world the best, but there was an underlying 'better pick him for one of them' thought in my head.

 

If I was playing once, or didn't want to try all the things, maybe my IQ would have pondered a little harder...

 

If I recall right, Cullen seemed to prefer Gaspard being Emperor of Orlais but he also found the prospect of letting Celene die to allow it happen objectionable. 

[In Exile]

Yes, Merrill's great failure was thinking too highly of her clan. Though I as well would not have guessed that Marethari would get herself possessed and that the rest of the clan would succumb to suicidal bloodthirst.

Marethari spent almost a decade slandering Merrill. She's obviously a loon. But if Merrill is going to engage in some casual infernal bargaining this is the very thing to be aware.

[KaiserShep]

I chose Gaspard first time round.  My IQ had a few reasons...
 
1. She was very inexperienced and looked to Cullen and Cass for guidance.  They both preferred Gaspard. (Right?  I know Cass did but I'm not sure about Cullen come to think of it)
2. She was dwarf and didn't like Celene always playing 'the game', she thought it was daft.
3. She respected a more military focus.
4. She was from the Free Marches, so wasn't so Ferelden focused as Hawke and the Warden.
 
Although I admit, I was meta-gaming a little.  I looked at the 5 scenarios and picked which one I wanted for my world states.  Gaspard seemed to fit this world the best, but there was an underlying 'better pick him for one of them' thought in my head.
 
If I was playing once, or didn't want to try all the things, maybe my IQ would have pondered a little harder...

I like to think that my Marcher Inquisitor had all 3 of them deal with each other in the hopes that there's a rash of assassinations, because **** Orlesians.

[The Elder King]

You can blame Marethari or Pol for Pol's death if you like - but that doesn't change the fact that Merrill should have seen the effect her actions were having on other people she supposedly cared about.Civil law has a concept of contributory negligence, which essentially recognizes that multiple parties have the ability to act, and can thus contribute to harmful events. At no point have I claimed that Merrill is solely responsible, only that she shares in the blame.

Which effects, That Pol would prefer to return to the room where the varterral was instead of being near Merril? Do you think that Pol's thoughs were reasonable?
Also, I never said Marethari was responsible for Pol's death. I said that Merril wasn't. And I stand on that. To think that she'd have harmed Pol, and that she was more dangerous then the varterral, it's frankly ridicolous.
If Marethari said to the dalish that Merril was dangerous to the point that she'd have harmed them, then yes, she had responsibility for Pol's death, considering she herself didn't think Merril would've harmed the other dalish.

[Pasquale1234]

Which effects, That Pol would prefer to return to the room where the varterral was instead of being near Merril? Do you think that Pol's thoughs were reasonable?
Also, I never said Marethari was responsible for Pol's death. I said that Merril wasn't. And I stand on that. To think that she'd have harmed Pol, and that she was more dangerous then the varterral, it's frankly ridicolous.
If Marethari said to the dalish that Merril was dangerous to the point that she'd have harmed them, then yes, she had responsibility for Pol's death, considering she herself didn't think Merril would've harmed the other dalish.

Sigh. It doesn't seem like this discussion is going to end, even though we've been OT in this thread for awhile now.

1-- We don't know exactly what Marethari told the clan about Merrill, but it probably had to do with her use of blood magic and dealing with demons. People are afraid of blood magic and mages who work with demons, and they have good reason to be. Marethari may also have told them she was trying to rebuild an eluvian, an artifact that she felt was better left to the past. One never knows where it will lead, or what might come through it - and it had already apparently claimed Tamlen.

2-- Merrill chose to leave her role as the clan's First to pursue building the eluvian. She defied her Keeper's counsel in choosing to rebuild the eluvian, using blood magic, and working with a demon.

3- Merrill saw how terrified Pol was of her, yet at no point did she stray from her course. She could have disavowed blood magic, ended her liaisons with demons, and/or quit working on the eluvian at any time, yet she persisted.

4-- What Marethari probably should have done is to exile Merrill from the clan, and move on, but she loved Merrill too much to give up on her. I don't know what sort of policies the Dalish have for dealing with blood mages - it's possible that she should have been slain.

The bottom line is that all of the harm that comes to the clan results from their reactions to Merrill's choices and actions. Had Merrill not been trying to rebuild the eluvian, not gotten involved with blood magic, not tried to bargain with the demon, none of it would have happened. Since a different set of choices and actions on Merrill's part would have led to different results, she shares the blame.

[Kabraxal]

Sigh. It doesn't seem like this discussion is going to end, even though we've been OT in this thread for awhile now.

1-- We don't know exactly what Marethari told the clan about Merrill, but it probably had to do with her use of blood magic and dealing with demons. People are afraid of blood magic and mages who work with demons, and they have good reason to be. Marethari may also have told them she was trying to rebuild an eluvian, an artifact that she felt was better left to the past. One never knows where it will lead, or what might come through it - and it had already apparently claimed Tamlen.

2-- Merrill chose to leave her role as the clan's First to pursue building the eluvian. She defied her Keeper's counsel in choosing to rebuild the eluvian, using blood magic, and working with a demon.

3- Merrill saw how terrified Pol was of her, yet at no point did she stray from her course. She could have disavowed blood magic, ended her liaisons with demons, and/or quit working on the eluvian at any time, yet she persisted.

4-- What Marethari probably should have done is to exile Merrill from the clan, and move on, but she loved Merrill too much to give up on her. I don't know what sort of policies the Dalish have for dealing with blood mages - it's possible that she should have been slain.

The bottom line is that all of the harm that comes to the clan results from their reactions to Merrill's choices and actions. Had Merrill not been trying to rebuild the eluvian, not gotten involved with blood magic, not tried to bargain with the demon, none of it would have happened. Since a different set of choices and actions on Merrill's part would have led to different results, she shares the blame.

 

It's why I backed out after my last point.  It had gotten way off topic. 

 

Although, thinking about Merrill in relation to this discussion, I imagine Sera would smack her upside her head for being a bit dense at points, but I think Merril would also be the elf that sort of opens Sera's eyes to why some of the Dalish are like how they are like.  But then, I played a Dalish Mage that eventually fell in love with Sera that was a lot like Merril in many respects.  Though she wore shoes (kind of wish I could have chosen to not wear them and have characters make comments about it). 
 

[Tidus]

Gaspard made a huge mistake.. He asked a Elvan Inquisitor to kill a follow Elf and that only caused Tidus and Camin's green eyes to flare with hate. Gaspard IMHO would make life miserable for Elves and would more then likely order a purging of the Alienage  for their part in the civil war.

 

I couldn't find any solid reasons to put Gaspard fanny on the throne and therefore I protected Celene.

[sniper_arrow]

So...how did a thread about hating Sera became Celene vs Gaspard and Merill's mistake?