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Why do a lot of people hate Sera?


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#326
robertthebard

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See my previous post about Josephine.

If you had the Vallaslin removed, I'd assume the Inquisitor isn't such an ardent believer in the Dalish way anymore. Which is likely how Sera took it. I never said she had tact, but she does tell the Inquisitor that she's better off now in her tactless way.


I have to wonder about that. If the Dalish truly believe that the tattoos are affirming, why take Solas at his word, and allow him to remove it. Doing so affirms Sera's beliefs, and then people are surprised that she points that out?

#327
robertthebard

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A bit off topic but even if I'm not a Sera fan at all but I hae to agree with this. I grew to like Cole with time, mostly with the help of Varric but Cole is creepy. The only one I feel is unjustifiable hash toward him is Vivienne because she should know better, or at least that he isn't a demon. For everyone else and especially none-mages they have a right to find Cole a bit creepy.

Mind reading, even when done by a spirit of compassion might not be wanted. I prefer my thoughts to be mine alone, to have some spirit start rambling about how I feel in a crowd would be very unnerving. ^_^


It could also be embarrassing, depending on what you're thinking at the time...

#328
Steelcan

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Really?  The embodiment of compassion is mind raping people?



#329
Heimdall

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I love Josie too, but she can be kind of blind to some stuff. Like my Inquisitor flirtingly asking her to walk the ramparts, and she's going to send for a steward to guide me. I think I laughed for a half hour.

Well, Leliana does say Josephine is innocent in love

#330
NWN-Ming-Ming

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Really?  The embodiment of compassion is mind raping people?

How is it Compassion when being repeatedly asked and then told to STOP, and he keeps doing it?

 

Yea, sorry...  Cole is a Mind-Rapist clear and simple in my book.


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#331
KillTheLastRomantic

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Really?  The embodiment of compassion is mind raping people?

 

....

 

It's stated in game that he is a spirit of compassion multiple times. This isn't my opinion. He's naive and confused. He may be unwelcome but he is certainly well meaning. Also, can we please stop throwing around inflammatory words like 'rape', please.


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#332
Steelcan

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....

 

It's stated in game that he is a spirit of compassion multiple times. This isn't my opinion. He's naive and confused. He may be unwelcome but he is certainly well meaning. Also, can we please stop throwing around inflammatory words like 'rape', please.

I'm agreeing with you


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#333
Heimdall

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Really?  The embodiment of compassion is mind raping people?

Well, he is digging into their private thoughts and spouting off about them in public. He doesn't see anything wrong with it, but most people find that an incredible invasion of privacy.
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#334
Brass_Buckles

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See, I just looked up that scene on YouTube, and best I can tell you don't actually tell her that Solas just dumped Lavellan. You can only tell her the truth about Vallaslin and she makes it clear she doesn't know what happened after the Inquisitor went off with Solas. You're expecting to show empathy for something she doesn't know happened.

 

I never said she knew that Solas broke it off.  What she did know was that my character was looking and sounding sad (the option was the Sad option), and as a friend instead of laughing at her, mocking her, and making fart noises, she should have been able to offer some emotional support.  But she didn't.  So she is not a friend.  If I opened up to someone about something I had that many strong personal feelings about, and was clearly feeling down, and they treated me like Sera did?  I would at the very least tell them off.  Maybe I'd punch them.  It's like, "My friend is telling me she's sad.  LOSER.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU SUCK LOSER YOU ALWAYS DID YOUR PEOPLE ARE GARBAGE HAHAHAHAHAHAHA."  And that's a seriously ugly way to be.  That's not fun, light-hearted ribbing.  There's a time for light-hearted ribbing, and that time is not when your friend is clearly down in the dumps about something.

 

Others' opinions about her lack of an end goal to her actions, and her unwillingness to take responsibility for her mistakes, also apply.  But I could overlook that; for a clever person she doesn't seem very intelligent in some ways.  She's rather childish.

 

She doesn't need to know Solas broke it off in order to know it's a bad idea to laugh. Lavellan has been raised on the idea that she is part of the last free elves who has not been broken by their history. They are taught that the dalish will never again submit to humanity or accept servitude/slavery. To learn that the mark of her heritage of her face was actually a slave brand has to hurt.

Anyone with even a shred of empathy would realise laughing at what must have been a very painful revelation is a horrible thing to do. She might dislike the dalish but if she cared about the Inquisitor at all she would have reacted differently.

Edit: I could add that Josefine seems to realise the situation just fine with LESS details and change the subject. Sera just laugh.

 

Agreed.  Sera doesn't just laugh, either.  She laughs, she makes noises, and she gloats about how basically the Dalish are a bunch of losers.

 

I'm actually beginning to agree with some others' opinions that Sera is an anti-elven racist.  I can get not agreeing with the Dalish.  What I can't comprehend is failing to respect them as people--and never being able to grow enough to understand that just because their culture is different, and their beliefs, doesn't mean they are somehow better, worse, snobbier, etc. than you are.  There's a reason the Dalish are so insular, and it involves people like Sera--and people like Gaspard, who also is the first to blame elves for all the problems, when in actuality he's about to cause a host of problems himself.


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#335
Steelcan

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How is it Compassion when being repeatedly asked and then told to STOP, and he keeps doing it?

 

Yea, sorry...  Cole is a Mind-Rapist clear and simple in my book.

He helps people, that's his sole purpose for existing.  Sometimes that help is difficult, people don't admit they need it, or its uncomfortable.  That doesn't mean he isn't helping them



#336
KillTheLastRomantic

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I'm agreeing with you

 

Ah, apologies. 



#337
Steelcan

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Well, he is digging into their private thoughts and spouting off about them in public. He doesn't see anything wrong with it, but most people find that an incredible invasion of privacy.

yes a lack of discretion on his part is clear, but he is doing it to help people, getting them over their fears and worries



#338
Sasie

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Personal boundaries most likely doesn't exist in the fade. Cole is a spirit of compassion and his nature is when he see something he tries to help. The laws of Thedas is just different from the one he is from and misplaced compassion can be just as bad as a demon I imagine. Cole does need some hand holding in the 'real world'. That's why I kept him around at least.



#339
Heimdall

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yes a lack of discretion on his part is clear, but he is doing it to help people, getting them over their fears and worries

Best of intentions, but just keeps doing it. He never learned that no means no apparently.
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#340
NWN-Ming-Ming

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....

 

It's stated in game that he is a spirit of compassion multiple times. This isn't my opinion. He's naive and confused. He may be unwelcome but he is certainly well meaning. Also, can we please stop throwing around inflammatory words like 'rape', please.

No.  Because it's not inflammatory, it's the truth. 

 

Cole invades your mind and the minds of others, many of whom yell/order/ask him to stop.  And yet he continues to do it.

 

Cole intrudes into the most personal and internal private parts of a person's being, without permission or consent. 

 

That's pretty much raping your mind, and I'll paste below:

 

Rape

 4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation:
the rape of the countryside.

 7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
 

British Dictionary definitions for rape
Rape

 3.
any violation or abuse: the rape of justice

You can like Cole, take him under your wing, try to excuse his behavior by saying he doesn't understand what he's doing is inappropriate and invasive, but in the end what he's doing is mind-rape.


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#341
Steelcan

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Best of intentions, but just keeps doing it. He never learned that no means no apparently.

>No don't help me

>is a spirit of compassion

>his entire purpose for existing is to help



#342
WildOrchid

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Well, he is digging into their private thoughts and spouting off about them in public. He doesn't see anything wrong with it, but most people find that an incredible invasion of privacy.

 

I thought that they have to call him in order for him to hear their thoughts?



#343
NWN-Ming-Ming

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He helps people, that's his sole purpose for existing.  Sometimes that help is difficult, people don't admit they need it, or its uncomfortable.  That doesn't mean he isn't helping them

Oh?  So they "were asking for it"?  Is that what you're saying?  "They had it coming?" or maybe it's "They needed it and just didn't know how to say yes when they said no"?



#344
Steelcan

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Oh?  So they "were asking for it"?  Is that what you're saying?  "They had it coming?" or maybe it's "They needed it and just didn't know how to say yes when they said no"?

good god you are reaching


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#345
Barquiel

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I don't hate her, but she is definitely not my cup of tea. I admit she has some funny lines, but everytime she talks about helping the little people...

And occasionally she really irritates me (especially her approval gaining). For example, her reaction to the "becoming the Inquisitor" speech if you choose the elf specific version. "I will be an ambassador. The inquisition is for all" -> Sera disapproves (too elfy?). Helping Briala (who wants to help city elves) -> Sera disapproves. Helping Gaspard (who doesn't care about elves) -> Sera approves.



#346
Steelcan

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I thought that they have to call him in order for him to hear their thoughts?

they have to need his help in order for him to hear them



#347
KillTheLastRomantic

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Oh?  So they "were asking for it"?  Is that what you're saying?  "They had it coming?" or maybe it's "They needed it and just didn't know how to say yes when they said no"?

 

Oh, god. No. That connotation is gross, insensitive and inappropriate and you should know better. I'm out.



#348
NWN-Ming-Ming

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good god you are reaching

I am pointing out the very slippery slope of argument you are using.  Consent is consent.  Non-consensual is non-consensual.  There's no reaching here.



#349
Icinix

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Someone got into my head and wiped my memory with the 'best of intentions' without my consent or knowledge.

 

Yeah...they'd be getting the Anders treatment if I found out about that....


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#350
Steelcan

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I am pointing out the very slippery slope of argument you are using.  Consent is consent.  Non-consensual is non-consensual.  There's no reaching here.

First of all Cole can't help his hearing other's thoughts, he makes this clear in dialogue, he can't "shut it off".

 

He uses what he learns to help people, whether its bringing out guilt and blame they place on themselves, or making a dying soldier's last moments more comfortable.  he is not going into other people's minds to intimidate, or leverage against them.  He improves their situation, then makes them forget him.  he is not seeking power power or sexual thrill.  The rape analogy is wholly unjustified and needlessly inflammatory


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