2858 réponses à ce sujet

[skotie]

Don't be ridiculous. She could be bisexual or even heterosexual and I wouldn't want to start a romance with her (not even flirt for that matter) nor would I magically start liking a character I don't like.

Yeah they get the reasons why people don't like her horribly wrong.

 

To help them understand more clearly, I'm a strait male gamer who found Isabela to be the most physically attractive romanceable character in the whole series yet if you were to swap the bodies of Sera and Isabela  including sexual orientation and keeping thier personalities and everything else intact I still would not like Sera.

[robertthebard]

The same can be said of Andraste, the Maker, et al. They could all be a pact of spirits and demons.  When you first meet her, she claims she wants to know if the Herald of Andraste stuff is real. Turns out it isn't. Does she question it further? nope. But hey at least she got one up on those "silly" Dalish Elves.
 
My Inquisitor was a nonbeliever, yet he still questioned whether there was some truth to the elven "gods" it didn't make him a believer, but it was worth noting, they could be gods or just spirits and demons. Sera just shoves her head in sand and go "it's stupid because I believe in the Maker not in the crap those losers believe in, stop talking!" her behavior contradicts her claim to want to learn the truth. Heck she can't even fathom there not being any truth. The maker is real no matter what and she just wants a cosigning of that "fact" I can understand her saying "There is no real proof to this Mythal being a God." but instead she states with 100% fact that it isn't real and based only in her belief in the Maker.  Well, IMO I would think a bunch of Ancient Elves would give her pause to at least consider some truth behind the claims that Elves had longer lifespans and thus look into the possibly that the belief in this Mythal is just as "tangible" as the belief in the Maker. But that is asking too much of her, I know.

With no more than we got, if someone's faith is strong either way, is it really enough to expect people to pack it in and switch teams? I didn't get enough, I'm sure some people probably did, but one of them wasn't Sera.

[robertthebard]

Those who become flustered and afraid at the suggestion of those who follow other paths--those who demand that all confirm to their narrow view of spirituality--those are weak, yes. My Inquisitor has never explicitly denied the existence of the Maker, but has also not rejected the Creators.
 
And "as one of them?"

So pretty much everyone that expected Sera to "jump on the bandwagon"?

[robertthebard]

And who are you to speak for "most men"? Honestly, if you have a problem with rejection, you haven't been rejected enough. You're supposed to develop a thick skin to that kinda thing by the time you're like 16... though, for some reason, "most men" don't understand that it's possible to "just be friends" with someone of the opposite gender without it resulting in sex.

Screw that, I didn't develop mine until I was in my 30s. I wasn't rejected a lot before then though...

[ORTesc]

Honestly, I do love the accent.

[Dean_the_Young]

I prefer cognitive penetration. It sounds thinky.

 

Surprise mind sex. Without consent, and with some mind-wiping afterwords for good measure.
 

[Xilizhra]

Sure you can. Just because society is racist or homophobic or whatever other flaws it may have doesn't mean you have to be. To argue otherwise is to deny the individual's right to freedom of conscience and to be defined by their own views and not society.

 

In fact, the insinuation that you 'can't' do that is what puts the cart before the horse: societies become increasingly post-racial as the people they are composed of become post-racial. A society, by definition as the aggregate of its composition, can not be post-racial before it's component population. Post-racial people create post-racial societies, not the other way around.

 

Being born in a racist society certainly don't have to buy into other peoples identity politics and personal crusades just because they perceive you as being a part of their target audience. That doesn't make a person ignorant in a different way- unless you truly wish to argue an incredibly paternalistic viewpoint that people are and should be defined by whatever identity label you wish to slap on them, and be expected to follow whoever sets themselves up as the patron of that group's 'interests.'

That's not what I said. It's not about being postracial oneself, but about acting as though society itself is postracial when it isn't (and more often than not, people who do this aren't postracial either). Basically, the failure to understand that treating already unequal groups identically, when inequality is self-perpetuating, won't actually lead to a postracial society, whereas compensating for inequality and actively working on trying to fix it will.

 

 

So pretty much everyone that expected Sera to "jump on the bandwagon"?

It's not about jumping on a bandwagon, just about not blindly lashing out on Sera's part.

[spinachdiaper]

Tricky to deal with characters usually see a lot of hate a first but after the masses figure out how to deal with these guys they then will be loved just like DAO's Sten.

[Heimdall]

Sometimes I disagree with you, but you couldn't be more right. I don't always want to apply it to fictional settings, but it's definitely true in the real world.

I actually don't entirely disagree, but I do think Sera's application is quite reasonable. Her perspective is a bit peculiar because she wasn't raised in an alienage, an elven community, she was raised by humans. She thinks that associations along racial lines aren't based on anything real, like the situation with Briala, who doesn't have a whole lot in common with the experience of most elves except for being an elf in Sera's eyes. Similarly, she rejects the assumption of racial kinship based on ear shape.

[StingingVelvet]

She's that typical Whedon style manic-pixie thing that in real life would be super damn annoying and get her ostracized from society, but in drama some people think is cute or endearing.

[Steelcan]

If Cole is incapable of not constantly violating consent, trying to argue that should be tolerated or else he'll be a 'murderous rampaging psychopath' is simply blackmail, not a defense. And if he's doing things that people don't want and causing them grief, he can already be called a demon.

 

The Andrastian distinction between Demons and Spirits is based on effect, not composition. Solas's analysis of spirits, while exemplary and worthy of commendation, doesn't change that. Cole's intent does not change that.

The what is the solution?  Letting him help people results in both those he helps and himself doing better.  Nor is he violating consent, since his hearing their thoughts is just a part of what he is, it cannot be turned off, nor can his desire to help people.  It isn't forceful, demeaning, cruel, or invasive in how he hears things so comparing it to rape is just fallacious. 

 

He isn't human so he can't "just keep it to himself" as his entire being is dedicated to helping.

 

I can understand if people are uncomfortable with his abilities, but saying that he is in any way comparable to a rapist is just at best stretching

[Chari]

I dunno

I'm super pro-dalish yet I have no problems with Sera so far

She's fun, silly but fun. And it's nice to see simple folk getting represented, not just those mages, templars, wardens, qunari and other. Simple people who do small but important work are the foundation of every society

[Kinsz]

Her banter with Vivienne is gold . the latter just makes her look so stupid.

 

[Bann Duncan]

Those who become flustered and afraid at the suggestion of those who follow other paths--those who demand that all confirm to their narrow view of spirituality--those are weak, yes. My Inquisitor has never explicitly denied the existence of the Maker, but has also not rejected the Creators.

 

And "as one of them?"

 

Don't even bother. These people are also trying to paint Cassandra as some fanatic, even though she is nothing but open minded.

 

Furthermore, the official Chantry view is not that it's the Maker and everything else is a type of demon. They only worship the Maker, yes, but 'Old Gods' are acknowledged powerful (probably evil) beings, considering they have physically turned into Archdemons, so the existence of the Elven pantheon by no means negates belief in the Maker. Powerful does not necessarily equal worthy of worship, after all.

 

In fact, this is what Mother Giselle talks about after you return from the temple.

 

 

Coming from someone who has previously admitted to knowingly creating impassible barriers to people who challenge personal beliefs, who has advocated for tolitatarian brainwashing regimes targeting of dissidents and even proposed genocide of political-military opposition groups...

 

Pot, meet kettle. You're black.

 

... what the hell? My first encounter with Xili was in a thread where she was systematically dismantling some weirdo who was getting all nostalgic for the days of his SS officer grandfather.

 

 

I think the Sera situation is much like the post-ME2 release Tali situation. Annoying character (though Tali was not annoying in ME1, before she was retconned into being in love with Shepard) becomes a revolting character because of how obsessed and hyper-tribal her fanbase is.

[Bann Duncan]

She's that typical Whedon style manic-pixie thing that in real life would be super damn annoying and get her ostracized from society, but in drama some people think is cute or endearing.

 

Except Whedon characters, including the archetypical ones, get huge amounts of character development, even if they're always the same in their essence. Not so with Sera.

 

Mind you, my issues with Sera are different to those of most. I don't mind that she's a mindless Andrastian where someone like Cassandra or Giselle is much more intellectual because any belief, whether religious or not, has both types of adherents. The thing is, all of Sera's areas of belief seem to be the black/white unthinking sort and that is what's disappointing. A lot could be done with the character concept... it was simply poorly executed. (I'd be happy if she simply lived up to the Sera in the song!) 

[robertthebard]

Don't even bother. These people are also trying to paint Cassandra as some fanatic, even though she is nothing but open minded.
 
Furthermore, the official Chantry view is not that it's the Maker and everything else is a type of demon. They only worship the Maker, yes, but 'Old Gods' are acknowledged powerful (probably evil) beings, considering they have physically turned into Archdemons, so the existence of the Elven pantheon by no means negates belief in the Maker. Powerful does not necessarily equal worthy of worship, after all.
 
In fact, this is what Mother Giselle talks about after you return from the temple.
 
 
 
... what the hell? My first encounter with Xili was in a thread where she was systematically dismantling some weirdo who was getting all nostalgic for the days of his SS officer grandfather.
 
 
I think the Sera situation is much like the post-ME2 release Tali situation. Annoying character (though Tali was not annoying in ME1, before she was retconned into being in love with Shepard) becomes a revolting character because of how obsessed and hyper-tribal her fanbase is.

So far, my only mention of Cass is that she has a soft spot for Sera. Not sure where fanatical would come from, and I surely haven't seen any of that referenced over two threads concerning Sera.

I have to ask though, what part of "Powerful does not necessarily equal worthy of worship" means Sera should reevaluate any of her beliefs? What are the Old Gods called when Thedas is exposed to them, now? Archdemons, right? So, since the Old Gods are referred to as Demons, why should she think anything else about the Elven Pantheon? Is it simplistic logic? Certainly, but this is Sera we're talking about here. Nobody here has ever suggested that she's got a Masters in Theology.

[Steelcan]

 

... what the hell? My first encounter with Xili was in a thread where she was systematically dismantling some weirdo who was getting all nostalgic for the days of his SS officer grandfather.

 

oh the fun that has been had in ME3 ending discussions, or DA discussions.....

 

Always fun

[Confused Potato]

It boils down to one simple thing:   There is nothing attractive or likeable about rude and crude.   Arrogance is also not attractive, nor is ignorance.   Sera seems to embody all of these qualities.  

 

So you don't like Morrigan then?

[wright1978]

Mind you, my issues with Sera are different to those of most. I don't mind that she's a mindless Andrastian where someone like Cassandra or Giselle is much more intellectual because any belief, whether religious or not, has both types of adherents. The thing is, all of Sera's areas of belief seem to be the black/white unthinking sort and that is what's disappointing. A lot could be done with the character concept... it was simply poorly executed. (I'd be happy if she simply lived up to the Sera in the song!) 

 

I have no issue with her being Andrastian with elvish issues. Nor do i particularly have an issue with her humour, which to my mind is sometimes hit and sometimes miss. What did grate on me a bit was her wearing unenlightenment as a badge of honour. Don't hate her, but she didn't end up being the expected favourite i thought she might be beforehand.

[Bann Duncan]

So far, my only mention of Cass is that she has a soft spot for Sera. Not sure where fanatical would come from, and I surely haven't seen any of that referenced over two threads concerning Sera.

 

That wasn't about you; that was about this guy, who first cheered on 'Anders' killing civilians, comparing him to the liberators of Nazi death camps, then made a post about Cassandra being a Christian fundamentalist nutjob.

 

 

I have to ask though, what part of "Powerful does not necessarily equal worthy of worship" means Sera should reevaluate any of her beliefs? What are the Old Gods called when Thedas is exposed to them, now? Archdemons, right? So, since the Old Gods are referred to as Demons, why should she think anything else about the Elven Pantheon? Is it simplistic logic? Certainly, but this is Sera we're talking about here. Nobody here has ever suggested that she's got a Masters in Theology.

 

 

I wasn't criticizing Sera there, actually... I said that we can't expect her to be as religiously knowledgeable as someone like Cassandra.

[taglag]

Well I have not traveled far enough into the game yet to even make a guess on sera, but  I saw where many said she was not funny, but to tell you the truth I have not found any of the banter dialogue funny.

 

I remember in Dragon age Origins, Alister, and the dwarf, and even the snooty Older mage use to keep me Laughing at many points in the game. Leliana would just bore me to death, she would kill most any party just by her being there, Has a pretty accent though. Loved Merrill in DA2, but the rest of those Characters were Ho-Hum.

 

It seems that for me every next game of DA has been going down hill from Origins with the character banter, and acting.

 

 I hope it gets better, but for now I find all of them a total bore, and discouraging to try and talk to. I don't think they have said anything that I considered even remotely funny yet. Maybe it will get better. I hope!!

[robertthebard]

That wasn't about you; that was about this guy, who first cheered on 'Anders' killing civilians, comparing him to the liberators of Nazi death camps, then made a post about Cassandra being a Christian fundamentalist nutjob.
 
 
 
I wasn't criticizing Sera there, actually... I said that we can't expect her to be as religiously knowledgeable as someone like Cassandra.

Ah, so the "these people" you reference was a misnomer, since it's one guy?

Edit: Actually, since the poster you quoted was quoting me, it was about me. So my protest stands, since I've never said anything equivalent to what you attempted to credit me with. If you have issues with another poster, in another thread, perhaps, instead of trying to assign those feelings to me, you deal with that poster, in that thread? I get myself enough board warnings for refusing to "tow the line", I don't need people accusing me of stuff I don't do.

[SpaceV3gan]

People who don't like Sera do so because they haven't witnessed her true power.