Fair enough comparison. That would certainly be the end of any relationship with me. Not just because Christianity but also because of all that embracing it entails about your thinking and you view of the world.
Well that was just an example. Insert any religion or ideology.
I want to reconcile Dalish and Andrastian cultures. Heaven is big enough for everyone's gods.
This is a very modernist view of things. The faiths and philosophies as they exist presented in the setting of Thedas are mutually exclusive and don't lend themselves to coexistence. Also this exposes a big problem with people who don't understand RPG's.
The problem is poor roleplaying basically. I used to run into this problem ALL the time back when I used to help run global canon material for the White Wolf Camarilla organization. There's specific factions purposefully written to have certain prejudices and incompatible viewpoints. But so many people (especially new players) wants to be a special snowflake and STILL be a member of these factions. They want to roleplay being the "enlightened one", the one who sees beyond prejudices, or the one who doesn't display the bad qualities of a given sect. The problem is, that's just bad roleplaying. If everyone is a special snowflake, then the essential flavor and personality of a given group is changed. If you're not playing the bias, the short-sightedness, the prejudices and cultural limitations of a given group, then how can you be roleplaying the group at all? Why are you roleplaying the group at all? It's also why as a GM/ST I have never been in favor of any of my tabletop players playing nonhuman races, until they can demonstrate the ability to convincingly roleplay a human separate from their RL persona in the first place. If you can't even demonstrate being a fleshed-out human being, then I sure as hell won't find your portrayal of an elf or a dwarf inspiring or believable either.
For my part in Dragon Age, I find the elves in Thedas refreshing because as an official part of the canon they are not the cliche "Immortal Awesome Elves" of Tolkien and traditional high fantasy. They are a weak, spindly, short-lived, deluded slave-race that breaks all previous fantasy conventions that place elves on a pedestal, and I'm in favor of seeing them further get the crushing heel in this setting. I'd like to see the Dalish lose even more, and become utterly crushed as a people and culture by the revelation in DAI. I want to see players of elves challenged to move past the Legolas and Drizzt clones. I want to see players get to exercise some righteous human fury in another Exalted March and wipe out the dandelion-eating elves.
The best part about all of that is it fits the canon stereotypes of Thedas, and is APPROPRIATE for the setting. I certainly don't think Solas or the Ancient Elven entities have anything beneficial to bring, and I want to see them put forth as the proper villains so that we can witness something truly original and fresh here. Likewise it also would disappoint me terribly if Thedas was subject to a retcon of atmosphere and the elves became more and more like the crappy Immortal Ubermensches of typically bland and stale fantasy.
'Sweetheart, I've just been through a really profound experience and I'm starting to wonder if there's some validity to Christianity.''What? Oh, no. I KNEW this would happen. Why did you have to make me like you, do you know how stupid you sound? This isn't going to work. You're a Christian now? I'M NOT CHRISTIAN. PLEASE tell me you'll forget all that Christianity stuff and we can just go back to normal...'
Yeah. Actually, I have zero problem with that. I wouldn't want my significant other to be a Christian. Total incompatibility. It's an utter deal-breaker for me. Too much bad blood in history.
Yeah. Actually, I have zero problem with that. I wouldn't want my significant other to be a Christian. Total incompatibility. It's a deal-breaker.
Again, that was just an example.
Yeah, I know. I did say exactly that, didn't I?ul·ti·ma·tum
ˌəltəˈmādəm/
noun
noun: ultimatum; plural noun: ultimata; plural noun: ultimatums
a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.
The point is that it a very inflammatory and biased way to describe the encounter. How about;Ultimatum is a demand, usually peremptory and not open to negotiation, to comply within a set time and backed up by a specific threat.
It was an excellent example. It fully supports and explains Sera's decision.Well that was just an example.
Yeah, I know. I did say exactly that, didn't I?
The point is that it a very inflammatory and biased way to describe the encounter. How about;
Plea: A request made in an urgent and emotional manner.
Entreat: To ask earnestly, to beseech, implore or beg.
Appeal: An earnest or urgent request supplication.
'Cause, you know, ULTIMATUMS don't usually come bundled with "please, honey tongue?"
The question is, if someone were not already predisposed to Serahate how likely would they be to see that exchange as anything other than tragic?
I don't view ultimatum as an inflammatory word or concept. Adding cute words to the demand doesn't make it less of a demand. Saying it in a pleading tone doesn't make it not a demand either. She basically says "say this isn't true, or we're done". That sounds like an ultimatum to me. It doesn't make Sera an evil or bad person, but it is what it is.
There's nothing wrong with ultimatums in relationships. In the end, healthy relationships begin and end with both parties having mutually acceptable variances and similarities in their behaviors and beliefs. Once those boundaries are exceeded, it's unhealthy to insist on either party sticking around while being miserable.
If the Quizzie needs to insist on the Temple of Mythal proving that there are Elven Gods, then yea... Sera should walk. Her religion won't recognize that as an issue that can be compatible. Like she says, you can't have both the Elven Gods AND the Maker. It's one or the other. And she has been very obvious about her choice throughout the entire game.
Yeah, I know. I did say exactly that, didn't I?
The point is that it a very inflammatory and biased way to describe the encounter. How about;
Plea: A request made in an urgent and emotional manner.
Entreat: To ask earnestly, to beseech, implore or beg.
Appeal: An earnest or urgent request supplication.
'Cause, you know, ULTIMATUMS don't usually come bundled with "please, honey tongue?"
The question is, if someone were not already predisposed to Serahate how likely would they be to see that exchange as anything other than tragic?
It's not inflammatory or biased when it's fact and the fact remains is that not telling her what she wants to hear will cause a breakdown of your relationship with her. What you are trying to do is turn her ultimatum into a something else when it is not. She pleads AND makes her ultimatum clear.
"May I please have some bread."
Is totally different from.
"If you don't give me bread, I will hate you. So please may I have some bread."
The first sentence is a simple plea for bread while the second has consequences in place should the person not receive the bread they are asking for.
Here's another example.
"May I borrow your shoes?"
"No."
"Please?" (Pleading)
"No."
"C'mon change your mind." (appealing)
"Nope."
"I really, really need them! Just go into the closet and get them." (Entreating)
"No."
"If you don't let me borrow your shoes our friendship is over."(Ultimatum)
It was an excellent example. It fully supports and explains Sera's decision.
I'd rather not get into real world religion bashing. My point has been diluted by people's personal feelings and agenda's towards Christianity. Change Christianity to 'Buddhism'. The point is she's disrespectful, dismissive, aggressive and militant towards her partner over even a discussion of differing ideologies. There's no talking. No respect. That's it. I'd like to think if I was confronted with a similar situation I'd be able to at least have a calm discussion with the person I'm supposed to love and I find Sera's reaction uncivilized and repugnant. Like MANY situations in the game, she jumps the gun and goes straight into hostility. Not to mention Sera IS RELIGIOUS herself. She's not making some socially aware moral stand about the dangers of religious thinking.
There's nothing wrong with ultimatums in relationships. In the end, healthy relationships begin and end with both parties having mutually acceptable variances and similarities in their behaviors and beliefs. Once those boundaries are exceeded, it's unhealthy to insist on either party sticking around while being miserable.
If the Quizzie needs to insist on the Temple of Mythal proving that there are Elven Gods, then yea... Sera should walk. Her religion won't recognize that as an issue that can be compatible. Like she says, you can't have both the Elven Gods AND the Maker. It's one or the other. And she has been very obvious about her choice throughout the entire game.
True, anyone who wishes to duck their head in the sand if there's stark evidence of a religion having some truth to it isn't anybody that some people would be interested in.
@NWN, I agree. There is nothing wrong with giving an ultimatum in a relationship. Everyone has to determine what lines they are willing to draw to keep themselves happy. If the one given the ultimatum feels strongly about the issue then they can just tell that person to hit the road. Sera certainly is not a bad person for giving the ultimatum. But that doesn't make her free from judgement either.
@Killthelast..., I agree. I love how she tells the Inquisitor to live in the present while worshiping an Ancient "deity" herself. What makes the Maker anymore modern, present, living in the here and now than Mythal?
This is a very modernist view of things. The faiths and philosophies as they exist presented in the setting of Thedas are mutually exclusive and don't lend themselves to coexistence. Also this exposes a big problem with people who don't understand RPG's.
The problem is poor roleplaying basically. I used to run into this problem ALL the time back when I used to help run global canon material for the White Wolf Camarilla organization. There's specific factions purposefully written to have certain prejudices and incompatible viewpoints. But so many people (especially new players) wants to be a special snowflake and STILL be a member of these factions. They want to roleplay being the "enlightened one", the one who sees beyond prejudices, or the one who doesn't display the bad qualities of a given sect. The problem is, that's just bad roleplaying. If everyone is a special snowflake, then the essential flavor and personality of a given group is changed. If you're not playing the bias, the short-sightedness, the prejudices and cultural limitations of a given group, then how can you be roleplaying the group at all? Why are you roleplaying the group at all? It's also why as a GM/ST I have never been in favor of any of my tabletop players playing nonhuman races, until they can demonstrate the ability to convincingly roleplay a human separate from their RL persona in the first place. If you can't even demonstrate being a fleshed-out human being, then I sure as hell won't find your portrayal of an elf or a dwarf inspiring or believable either.
For my part in Dragon Age, I find the elves in Thedas refreshing because as an official part of the canon they are not the cliche "Immortal Awesome Elves" of Tolkien and traditional high fantasy. They are a weak, spindly, short-lived, deluded slave-race that breaks all previous fantasy conventions that place elves on a pedestal, and I'm in favor of seeing them further get the crushing heel in this setting. I'd like to see the Dalish lose even more, and become utterly crushed as a people and culture by the revelation in DAI. I want to see players of elves challenged to move past the Legolas and Drizzt clones. I want to see players get to exercise some righteous human fury in another Exalted March and wipe out the dandelion-eating elves.
The best part about all of that is it fits the canon stereotypes of Thedas, and is APPROPRIATE for the setting. I certainly don't think Solas or the Ancient Elven entities have anything beneficial to bring, and I want to see them put forth as the proper villains so that we can witness something truly original and fresh here. Likewise it also would disappoint me terribly if Thedas was subject to a retcon of atmosphere and the elves became more and more like the crappy Immortal Ubermensches of typically bland and stale fantasy.
Very un-Sera-ish attitude you have about roleplaying there. Also extremely spiteful towards people who like what you don't like.
No, Buddhism, Scientology, Islam, Jainism or whatever would be a deal breaker for me. Sometimes it's not the specific details of what you believe it's the belief and the world-view.I'd rather not get into real world religion bashing. My point has been diluted by people's personal feelings and agenda's towards Christianity. Change Christianity to 'Buddhism'.
No, no way, absolutely not. Her "Please, honey tongue" edge of tears appeal is not disrespectful, dismissive or aggressive and it sure as hell is not militant. That's beyond hyperbole.The point is she's disrespectful, dismissive, aggressive and militant towards her partner
The question is, if someone were not already predisposed to Serahate how likely would they be to see that exchange as anything other than tragic?
It is tragic, but also wholly self-inflicted. She's working herself up over an issue that didn't even exist until this moment.
She is a psychopath with no character development....
Sera is like Jack / Subject Zero with no character development or character arc...
Except you know when Jack becomes a teacher at Grissom Academy, and actually cares for people other than herself
You know that little thing
No, Buddhism, Scientology, Islam, Jainism or whatever would be a deal breaker for me. Sometimes it's not the specific details of what you believe it's the belief and the world-view.
No, no way, absolutely not. Her "Please, honey tongue" edge of tears appeal is not disrespectful, dismissive or aggressive and it sure as hell is not militant. That's beyond hyperbole.
Well I'm not attempting to date you and we aren't discussing our real world beliefs. This is being spun totally out of relevant context, it's potentially inflammatory, so never mind.
And we'll have to agree to disagree on that, because I saw it as harsh, calculated emotional manipulation. She's laying it on thick, yet doesn't actually seem to care about her partner at all. It seems utterly disingenuous. She cares SOO much about Lavellan that she's nearly in tears, yet isn't even willing to stop and discuss things to even try to salvage her relationship. She has NO interest in her partners opinion. Or feelings. There is NO compromise. That is not love.
Except you know when Jack becomes a teacher at Grissom Academy, and actually cares for people other than herself
You know that little thing
And has a breakdown when you romance her.
No, Buddhism, Scientology, Islam, Jainism or whatever would be a deal breaker for me. Sometimes it's not the specific details of what you believe it's the belief and the world-view.
No, no way, absolutely not. Her "Please, honey tongue" edge of tears appeal is not disrespectful, dismissive or aggressive and it sure as hell is not militant. That's beyond hyperbole.
It's not aggressive in the sense of "I will destroy your family and take your money!!" but it is passive aggressive, almost kindly. She wants you, right there, after you can barely wrap your head around what just happened, to give up the potential belief. No questions asked.
That's not good relationship material at all. If all your relationship is founded on is one static belief and nothing else, somebody needs to look at themselves and figure it out. Things change. Evidence comes to light to change what we thought about old things. It happens. Sera doesn't like change, and thus, will never be in a stable relationship.
And has a breakdown when you romance her.
I never romanced her, always Miranda lmao
I was just pointing out how Jack isn't as static as Sera
that depends
some who disagree are also fairly popular. Javik comes to mind for ME and Loghain for DA, well he may not be as popular, but he certainly has his fans
Javik gets points for being a higher life form, primitive.
I never romanced her, always Miranda lmao
I was just pointing out how Jack isn't as static as Sera
Oh yeah, she gets pretty low and it just makes you want to reach through and hug her. 
Oh yeah, she gets pretty low and it just makes you want to reach through and hug her.
I wish Bioware will do another romance like that, did they in Inquisition? I've only done Cassandra so far
I wish Bioware will do another romance like that, did they in Inquisition? I've only done Cassandra so far
Traumatized incredibly powerful mage that just wants to live their life and not be put into a containment field to be studied?
Not really, no. 
Traumatized incredibly powerful mage that just wants to live their life and not be put into a containment field to be studied?
Not really, no.
Sadly that's what I thought, maybe something like that in ME4? O.o
Retour en haut