2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathair Nimheil]

It's not aggressive in the sense of "I will destroy your family and take your money!!" but it is passive aggressive, almost kindly.

Passive-aggressiveness is an expression of hostility. I'm having trouble with seeing this as "Kindly Hostility".

The key point is that this is honest pleading. She's not joking or posturing or bluffing or scoring points or trying to be the boss. This really is a deal breaker for her but she doesn't want to see the deal broken. She is being put in an untenable position and she pleads with the Inquisitor to not let this happen. It takes a very interesting perspective to see this as bigotry, manipulation or militant aggression.

[DKJaigen]

Not really, no. "Ultimatum" is a very inflammatory way to describe a lover saying "Please tell me you don't mean it, Please, take it back so we can stay together". Ultimatum is a demand, usually peremptory and not open to negotiation, to comply within a set time and backed up by a specific threat. It is the word used in international law to describe the last stage in a declaration of war.

 

The only thing I find really disturbing is the people who can't/won't even attempt to empathise here.

 

...well, that and all the "I can't believe she's so intolerant; the ugly, evil, irritating, childish, racist, bigoted, ignorant, manipulating, stupid, selfish, psychotic, murdering ******! I wanted to stab her in the face repeatedly for not being tolerant and mature like me."

 

You have made some pretty good points in sera's defence but that's ultimatum. and their is no way to sweet talk this one.

[Nathair Nimheil]

You have made some pretty good points in sera's defence but that's ultimatum. and their is no way to sweet talk this one.

Sure, if you like. I maintain, though, that there are much less inflammatory and far more accurate characterizations of that scene.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I have to say that while the particular video is one possible permutation of Sera's reactions, it is still a (very weak) ultimatum. I won't sugarcoat it, as the term fits simply due to the lack of nuances sometimes in English synonyms. It works as a label. I feel it's a bit strong myself, but given the reactions I got from some people when I labelled Cole a mind-rapist, I feel it'd be a double standard if I said it was wrong to use a legitimate synonym, despite nuances.

[DKJaigen]

Passive-aggressiveness is an expression of hostility. I'm having trouble with seeing this as "Kindly Hostility".

The key point is that this is honest pleading. She's not joking or posturing or bluffing or scoring points or trying to be the boss. This really is a deal breaker for her but she doesn't want to see the deal broken. She is being put in an untenable position and she pleads with the Inquisitor to not let this happen. It takes a very interesting perspective to see this as bigotry, manipulation or militant aggression.

 

Your not making her case better. If this is such a deal breaker she is petty . stupid , not open to new concepts and takes the whole ignorance is bliss thing to a whole new level. She pleads to the inquisitor to not have some critical thought for herself or analyse new information and come up to different conclusions. The entire concept of a relationship is that DESPITE the differences of people and their views they can still respect them and don't force the other one to change,

[Porenferser]

"You'd really end our relationship over what I think of some ruins?" indeed.

And this is my biggest problem with her.

Her complete inability to even CONSIDER the option of being wrong.

Every Qunari has a better self-reflection than her, seriously.

[RoraM]

I personally adored Sera instantly, although I admit, her shenanigans can be wearing.  However, I found her one of the most original and memorable characters I have had the pleasure to encounter.  Her near-nonsensical dialogue, punctuated with the occasional raspberry (performed brilliantly by Robyn Addison), has an endearing, quirky rhythm.   Sera's personality does not undergo any meaningful transformation because she simply has no desire to change.  As an orphaned alienage elf growing up in a human home, she had to struggle to create an identity. She outrightly rejects anything that threatens the integrity of that hard-won identity, because if she were ever to question her beliefs, she fears it would all crumble to nothing.  As for being psychopathic, while not completely altruistic, she is not entirely without empathy, otherwise she wouldn't fight for the disenfranchised.  Her character is intentionally polarizing, which is probably just how Sera would prefer it:  take it, or leave it.  Whatever.

[Vyndral]

And this iy my biggest problem with her.
Her complete inability to even CONSIDER the option of being wrong.
Every Qunari has a better self-reflection than her, seriously.

Holy crow, I thought Sera was the ugliest elf around. I stand corrected.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

The emphasis on self-critical thinking and being open to new tenets of spirituality is a very Western-Centric mode of thinking. That it has its benefits does not make it an exclusively correct or exclusively acceptable mode of thought or relationships.

[Porenferser]

Holy crow, I thought Sera was the ugliest elf around. I stand corrected.

Going by the Thumbail I thought it was Male first, lolz

[Nathair Nimheil]

Your not making her case better. If this is such a deal breaker she is petty . stupid , not open to new concepts and takes the whole ignorance is bliss thing to a whole new level. She pleads to the inquisitor to not have some critical thought for herself or analyse new information and come up to different conclusions.

She comes to different conclusions and, as has been beaten to death in the forums, her conclusions are quite defensible and understandable.
 

The entire concept of a relationship is that DESPITE the differences of people and their views they can still respect them and don't force the other one to change

Yeah, good luck selling that. There's a reason "Irreconcilable differences" is a standard legal basis for ending a relationship.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, it definitely works out better in this case to be an irreligious character that simply can't be bothered to give a nug.

[Nathair Nimheil]

And this is my biggest problem with her.
Her complete inability to even CONSIDER the option of being wrong.
Every Qunari has a better self-reflection than her, seriously.

Inquisitor: I believe X.
Sera: I believe Y.

BSN: Why is Sera so closed-minded and intolerant?

[Vyndral]

Inquisitor: I believe X.Sera: I believe Y.BSN: Why is Sera so closed-minded and intolerant?

Because she doesn't want to bump uglies with someone who doesn't agree with her. Obviously she should knock boots with whoever gives her the time of day.

[KaiserShep]

Well, she is making too big a deal out of it. It's like she has some super resentment deep down over elven religion or something.

[Steelcan]

Inquisitor: I believe X.
Sera: I believe Y.

BSN: Why is Sera so closed-minded and intolerant?

Sera: I believe Y and if you believe X you are stupid and wrong and I am incapable of being civil towards you ever again

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Inquisitor: I believe X.
Sera: I believe Y.

BSN: Why is Sera so closed-minded and intolerant?

 

Look, you're an intelligent person. That is simply not the conversation that occurs. It's closer to:

 

Inquisitor: I believe x

Sera: Well I believe y! They can't BOTH be true! You're stupid!

 

And if you're in a relationship:

 

Sera: Well I believe y! They can't BOTH be true! I won't hear any more of it, you can try to explain but I don't care! Take back your opinion or we're done!

 

And there are MANY other times in the games where she behaves like this over small differences of opinion. That is what people dislike.

 

 

 

Anyway, we obviously disagree on a LOT of different things, so it's been fun but I'm gonna bow out before the debate gets circular.

[KaiserShep]

I don't remember a conversation like that happening elsewhere in the game, though my PC is human so that might make the difference.

[Nathair Nimheil]

I am incapable of being civil towards you ever again

See? This is exactly the kind of overblown, hyperbolic distortion that is the signature move of the Serahaters. She doesn't leave the Inquisition, she doesn't become intransigent and mutinous, she doesn't hate you forever, she just ends the intimate relationship. You can't seriously be trying to say that she is required to stay in the relationship even if she doesn't want to. All I hear is "Her reason isn't good enough!" but "It just kinda feels wrong" is reason enough and this is much more significant than that.

[Vyndral]

 
Anyway, we obviously disagree on a LOT of different things, so it's been fun but I'm gonna bow out before the debate gets circular.

You are 28 pages to late for that.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I don't remember a conversation like that happening elsewhere in the game, though my PC is human so that might make the difference.

 

I played an elf. I was friendly towards her but she constantly mocked my PC for their heritage no matter how innocuous my dialogue options towards her were and it left a sour taste. Then there was the spat after her personal mission, after she beats that dude to death.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

You are 28 pages to late for that.

 

I've not been here the whole time. If you're bored, then you're free to leave, too.

[Nathair Nimheil]

I played an elf. I was friendly towards her but she constantly mocked my PC for their heritage no matter how innocuous my dialogue options towards her were and it left a sour taste. Then there was the spat after her personal mission, after she beats that dude to death.

Didn't you just "bow out"?

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Yeah there seems to be a LOT of contextually paraphrased and misrepresented references to Sera's dialogues on the part of the anti-Sera bandwagon. I've seen some rare good arguments but unfortunately the bulk of the arguments leave something to be desired.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Didn't you just "bow out"?

 

I meant with you. Jesus Christ, we were actually having a semi-civil discussion (despite you ignoring most of the relevant points made) and then you put some snarky **** like that. How very Sera.