2858 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

The whole Red Jenny business seems far too nebulous for anyone to really manipulate properly. You also have Friends paying people to rub out mercenaries, slavers and such, much like the woman who was paying Hawke to clear out Kirkwall's streets.

[Daerog]

It's not like it is one "organization" (more like "disorganization," ha, see what I did... nevermind...), there are multiple Red Jennies.

 

Somebody at some point in time started this little tradition which all the "little people" seem to know about and some bored person takes up the role of RJ, listens to all the talk, contacts little people, then shenanigans ensue.

 

This isn't a group with a world changing goal that they are all working toward, it is more in the now and not a plan for the future. Sometimes the RJ's can do great things, like help clean up the streets in Kirkwall, and other times are just a bit odd like the one in Denerim.

 

Although this has been mentioned many times in this thread, as well as the back and forth about liking Sera, not liking Sera, how dare you not like Sera, how *dare* you... mmmm... (kissing sound)... how dare you... (continues kissing sounds)...

 

What are we talkin' 'bout again?

[skotie]

The whole Red Jenny business seems far too nebulous for anyone to really manipulate properly. You also have Friends paying people to rub out mercenaries, slavers and such, much like the woman who was paying Hawke to clear out Kirkwall's streets.

I wouldn't consider it to be out of the realm of possibility they are known for helping the little people, surely a few commoners could be bribed to work for a noble and lie about mistreatment, perhaps spread dissent among the servants to the point of a noble being assinated on false charges, rape seems an easy enough one to lie about.  How else are those unforunates going to improve thier lot in life?

[Daerog]

It's not the goal of every little person to stop being a little person and become a big person. Some are fine with being little people... they just don't want to be **** on by the big people.

 

The RJs are not trying to uplift the little people, there will always be little people, but the big people could be nice and respectful to others... and learn to take a joke...

[KaiserShep]

I wouldn't consider it to be out of the realm of possibility they are known for helping the little people, surely a few commoners could be bribed to work for a noble and lie about mistreatment, perhaps spread dissent among the servants to the point of a noble being assinated on false charges, rape seems an easy enough one to lie about.  How else are those unforunates going to improve thier lot in life?

 

This is true, though in the end, if it's just ending with a bunch of peasants getting paid to screw over other nobles, this still serves the "friends" well enough, even if it's a bunch of lies.

[Daerog]

Then it just becomes Orlesian... and no country wants to go full Orlesian... except Orlais which is already stuck being Orlais.

[skotie]

It's not the goal of every little person to stop being a little person and become a big person. Some are fine with being little people... they just don't want to be **** on by the big people.

 

The RJs are not trying to uplift the little people, there will always be little people, but the big people could be nice and respectful to others... and learn to take a joke...

Ah but thier's the problem right there isn't it "Some" of them are happy with thier lot in life, others are not. What would it hurt to take some money from one noble to help them elminate another scumbag, and lets not forget how easy those uneducated peasants are scared. Sera can't see the shades of grey, one day they will shatter her world.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's not what I said. It's not about being postracial oneself, but about acting as though society itself is postracial when it isn't (and more often than not, people who do this aren't postracial either).

 

 

Sera doesn't act like society is postracial. She makes no claim that it is. Everything else you write about her after that assumption is undermined by that.

 

 

Basically, the failure to understand that treating already unequal groups identically, when inequality is self-perpetuating, won't actually lead to a postracial society, whereas compensating for inequality and actively working on trying to fix it will.

 

 

Treating people equally is what allows people to treat eachother equally- so long as what you actually care about is people treating each other equal, rather than some ideal quota or composition ratio of how things should be in all parts of society.

 

Questing after historic compensation simply up a debate of what constitutes 'compensation,' who owes it, and who is to provide for it, an impossible to resolve delimma that will always unjustly penalize people innocent in the present of historic crimes in the past, and allows demagogues to co-opt the disenfranchised to elevate themselves into elites... and encourages them to maintain a sense of crisis and dependency, so that the disenfranchised remain dependent on those self-proclaimed guardians.

 

If you think that racial advocacy is some moral requirement despite the issues that come along with it, that's nice but merely a personal opinion. Other people have no obligation to agree or go along with your viewpoint, especially if they see issue with the advocates, just as you are under no moral obligation to go along with their moral crusades.

 

I mean, if we really wanted to accuse people of immorality for not believing in the cuases, everyone on this forum and in this topic who has beaten the game has devoted hundreds of potential dollars, dozens of man hours, and a good deal of energy on self-satisfying luxury products rather than, you know, spend that time actually helping people. The sheer fact that we have the time, discretionary income, and the proven lack of commitment to the actual underclasses by the time we spend here talking about fictional oppression could label us all class enemies to a whole host of potential revolutionary causes.

[Daerog]

They don't usually assassinate, they are not bards or crows.

 

Sera isn't the only RJ either, and I'm not sure how much of an RJ she would be considered by the others since she joined the Inquisition.

 

The RJs don't have the resources to think big or long term, they are not a real organization. It is at least one bored person that hears complaints, gets little trinkets from those who want the RJ to do something, then the RJ does something... or hires outside help in the case with Hawke.

 

Once you get a long term goal, consolidate power and resources, you stop being Red Jenny... you just become either a gang leader or something else.

[Dean_the_Young]

The what is the solution?

 

For him to stop when he violate consent, or for him to be forcibly prevented from doing so if he refuses to. You know, the solution to rapists in general.

 

Come on- I support quarantining mages for things they might do beyond their ability to control and without malevolent intent. Why on earth do you think I would be more leniant for Cole?
 

 

 

Letting him help people results in both those he helps and himself doing better.

 

CoughKillingMagesToHelpThemCough

 

Cole wanting to help and Cole actually helping are two different things. Especially in cases when 'help' can be entirely unwanted, or actively detrimental. This isn't even touching on the whole host of medical ethics that Cole isn't even cognant of.

 

It isn't forceful, demeaning, cruel, or invasive in how he hears things so comparing it to rape is just fallacious. 

 

It absolutely is invasive, in many cases is demeaning by embarassing or humiliating to those subjected to it in public without consent, and the only sort of 'forceful' it can't qualify for is physical force.

 

 

Nor is he violating consent, since his hearing their thoughts is just a part of what he is, it cannot be turned off, nor can his desire to help people. 

 

 

Those are irrelevant to the consent of other people. Those just explain its fixation.
 

 

He isn't human so he can't "just keep it to himself" as his entire being is dedicated to helping.

 

 

That's no more an excuse for Cole than any malevolent spirit that just wants to be it's aspect, twisted or not. Even, say, a Choice Spirit.

 

Justice was a spirit for a concept of Justice. It would also be entirely fair to label it a mass murderer, and expect it to not do such things. Being a spirit doesn't give you an infallible morality license.
 

 

I can understand if people are uncomfortable with his abilities, but saying that he is in any way comparable to a rapist is just at best stretching

 

 

It's actually quite close to a rapist who thinks they are morally justified.

[skotie]

They don't usually assassinate, they are not bards or crows.

 

Sera isn't the only RJ either, and I'm not sure how much of an RJ she would be considered by the others since she joined the Inquisition.

 

The RJs don't have the resources to think big or long term, they are not a real organization. It is at least one bored person that hears complaints, gets little trinkets from those who want the RJ to do something, then the RJ does something... or hires outside help in the case with Hawke.

 

Once you get a long term goal, consolidate power and resources, you stop being Red Jenny... you just become either a gang leader or something else.

Yet she kills two people right before your eyes, one of whom's biggest crime just might be, being a pompus ass.

 

I can justify the second killing during her quest, the guy had no problem admiting his guilt and was trying to strike a deal with you, mostly to save his own skin.

 

What is the reason for shooting the noble in the face upon meeting her? What that he was an enemy to the inquisition's cause? Wow perhaps we should go murder some of those chantry sisters back in Val Royeaux while were at it, they were just as frightening and were also our enemies!

 

Considering this I would hardly say they are not assassins.

[Dean_the_Young]

I meant with you. Jesus Christ, we were actually having a semi-civil discussion (despite you ignoring most of the relevant points made) and then you put some snarky **** like that. How very Sera.

 

Didn't you bow out of a conversation with that person?

 

 

I won't be able to fully read this threat until later, but I'm putting ten points that you reply to them (or this) again.

[umadcommander]

she is selfish, unwilling to learn and horribly inconsiderate

 

it doesnt help that her accent sounds about as legit as a £3 note

[KaiserShep]

it doesnt help that her accent sounds about as legit as a £3 note

 

Eh, I'm surprised that there isn't a coin with another coin squished in the middle that's worth £3 there.

 

Anyway, isn't Robyn Addison actually British?

[umadcommander]

Eh, I'm surprised that there isn't a coin with another coin squished in the middle that's worth £3 there.

 

Anyway, isn't Robyn Addison actually British?

 

so am i, but if i tried to do that accent it would still sound forced, its unfortunate but its a minor issue in the end

[Sully13]

I just wish i could have been a boot wareing good ol' city elf rather than a tree hugging hippy dalish

[skotie]

I just wish i could have been a boot wareing good ol' city elf rather than a tree hugging hippy dalish

This option would have been nice, I liked having both paths in DAO.

[Ennai and 54 others]

The whole Red Jenny business seems far too nebulous for anyone to really manipulate properly. You also have Friends paying people to rub out mercenaries, slavers and such, much like the woman who was paying Hawke to clear out Kirkwall's streets.

Vivienne mentions in one of her conversations with Sera how the friends of red Jenny can easily be used for her own ends.She just needs to send a letter to some unwitting little person, pointing them in the direction of someone she wants to hurt.

[KaiserShep]

Considering how little the background seems to affect the story, and that a qunari of all things can be at the conclave, I suppose it should have been easy enough to implement a city elf.

[Ennai and 54 others]

They don't usually assassinate, they are not bards or crows.

 

Sera isn't the only RJ either, and I'm not sure how much of an RJ she would be considered by the others since she joined the Inquisition.

 

The RJs don't have the resources to think big or long term, they are not a real organization. It is at least one bored person that hears complaints, gets little trinkets from those who want the RJ to do something, then the RJ does something... or hires outside help in the case with Hawke.

 

Once you get a long term goal, consolidate power and resources, you stop being Red Jenny... you just become either a gang leader or something else.

The thing is.It is entirely possible that the organization as a whole has a goal,but none of it's "cells" know what it is.Each person plays a small part,and their part is too small to see what is actually happening in the grand scheme.

[Zeroth Angel]

Because the dude set up and then murdered some people? We kill people for that all the time. We kill people for less. Have you not played DA before?

We do that in self defense.

 

I never kill anyone if I have an option to save them. Hell, I have yet to even kill any of the people you can judge.

[Brelakor]

I like Sera, the problem is she seems to really hate my Inquisitor's choices I actually deliberately take her around with me and Solas so that every time she's mean to him I sit there going, 'Muahahaha! That's for Lavellan, you stupid egg-head!'  

[joejoe099]

We do that in self defense.

 

I never kill anyone if I have an option to save them. Hell, I have yet to even kill any of the people you can judge.

 

you bring shame to your user name.

[Heimdall]

so am i, but if i tried to do that accent it would still sound forced, its unfortunate but its a minor issue in the end

Apparently she's from Derbyshire and is using her natural accent.

[Heimdall]

I can justify the second killing during her quest, the guy had no problem admiting his guilt and was trying to strike a deal with you, mostly to save his own skin.

What is the reason for shooting the noble in the face upon meeting her? What that he was an enemy to the inquisition's cause? Wow perhaps we should go murder some of those chantry sisters back in Val Royeaux while were at it, they were just as frightening and were also our enemies!

Considering this I would hardly say they are not assassins.

That guy was actively attacking the Inquisitor when Sera shot him. It's not like she just up and shot a guy minding his own business.