2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Shelidon]

Yes. Sera killed him without your permission and that cheesed you off. Really? In this game you consider one dead noble a "killing spree"? And how many Venatori did you kill for Dorian's quest?

Yes, that is what cheesed my Inquisitor off. That's the reason she was kicked out of the Inquisition. Also, I have to say I regretted not having the option to imprison her: she's unreliable and she has seen Skyhold, so I wouldn't trust her to go around spreading our secrets just to get a petty revenge. Since there wasn't any option aside from ordering her to leave, I'm curious to see if there's any development at all on that side.
Also, I do believe the "spree" is about the quality and not necessarily about the quantity, like a berserker attack, but I might be wrong.

[Nathair Nimheil]

What am I uninformed about?  Red Jenny is for upset servants getting petty revenge those downtrodden by nobles, but Sera uses it for self serving purposes such as stealing from said nobles

Sera is quite open about this. She helps out her "friends", sticks it to the nobles and anyone else who like to "punch down" and fills her own pockets at the same time. It's win/win. Where's the hypocrisy?

[Shelidon]

No hard feelings?

Of course not. :-)

[Nathair Nimheil]

Also, I do believe the "spree" is about the quality and not necessarily about the quantity, like a berserker attack, but I might be wrong.

Sadly, words come with meanings already attached. Once incident is not a spree.

Meanwhile, how many Venatori did you kill with Dorian?

[Steelcan]

Sera is quite open about this. She helps out her "friends", sticks it to the nobles and anyone else who like to "punch down" and fills her own pockets at the same time. It's win/win. Where's the hypocrisy?

the hypocrisy comes from using the organization to do that

[Wintermist]

I certainly don't hate her, she's just a bit too... I don't know... she sticks out and I can't take her seriously.

[robertthebard]

the hypocrisy comes from using the organization to do that

You're putting the cart before horse; the organization uses Sera to do that. Just like they did with Hawke in Kirkwall, and the Warden in Denerim. Any questions?

[Lady Luminous]

I don't hate her, I just don't bloody understand her.

 

It's like... I understand that she's speaking English, but the words are scrambled. Rarely do we have a coherent coversation, and I end up staring at my screen in confusion. 

 

I ended up kicking her out after

Spoiler

she yelled at me for my opinions of the elves at the Tower of Mythal.

I just couldn't deal with her by that point. 

[Nathair Nimheil]

the hypocrisy comes from using the organization to do that

To do what? Sera claims to like profit, she uses her association with RJ to make a profit. Sera likes to help those without power, she is part of RJ because it lets her do that. Sera hates those who punch down, she uses RJ to harm them. Where is the hypocrisy?

[Shelidon]

Sadly, words come with meanings already attached. Once incident is not a spree.Meanwhile, how many Venatori did you kill with Dorian?

That's the definition I was aware of:

spree (spr)
n.
1. A carefree, lively outing.
2. A drinking bout.
3. A sudden indulgence in or outburst of an activity.

I think you might be thinking about the "spree killer" , who is a serial. If so, that's not at all what I meant. I just meant that Sera loses her head. Sorry if my choice of words sounded ambiguous to you.


Meanwhile, I honestly didn't count how many nameless Venatori I killed while merrily scouting around with my favourite (half)chest-naked Tevinter mage friend. The point is (again) that my Inquisitor supervised, approved and phisically did the killing. Dorian didn't go out himself judging on his own who should "we" kill. Also because he really really enjoys looking at my Inquisitor from behind.
I can tell you, though, how many people I beheaded after a regular hearing in Skyhold. Would that satisfy you?

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

She espouses the belief of helping the little people, that's in her dialogue with her recruitment, no I'm not going to go scrounging for sources.

 

She practices self empowerment at the expense of others, shown when she uses her missions for Red Jenny to fill her own pockets, or how she joins the Inquisition for money and not to help people like you'd think a member of Red Jenny would

Hrmm...  I just went over a video with a pretty full exploration of the recruitment dialogue tree and I don't see any of what you're talking about.  She's forthright about what she does and why.  "Someone got a laugh, someone got even, someone got paid."

Then we have her very first conversations here, hrmm... what's the very first thing she says?  About profit?

In particular, when you listen at 5:55 you get a very concise explanation of the varying scale of the Red Jenny and friends, and how Sera sees herself in that.  She even addresses the aspect of risk for the friends and Red Jennys.  "Anyhow it just works.  Friend of a friend and little hints.  Mind you, you still have to be smart.  Don't bet your life unless you're into that."

I think there's just a lot of unsubstantiated "Proof by repeated assertion" going on here on the part of Steelcan and others who refuse to actual post and cite support for their arguments.  It's sad really.

[eternalshiva]

I find her very transphobic, even though she's a lesbian she's very bigoted against "other" lesbians, gay or trans people in game, she practices cultural erasure on her own people and if you do any "elf" related things, she downright hates your guts for it. Although I agree with some things she says about her people, her complete disregard of their struggle and her downright racist attitude unless you're a Qunari is really jarring. She loves dat Qunari girl on girl action.

 

Also her relationship with a Dalish elf is very problematic and abusive "Pick me or your clan" type of bull**it. And the stuff that comes out of her mouth sometimes, it's infuriating. I know it's supposed to be the "street / crazy" person on the group but JFC you can't rebuttle any of her crap or even try to get her to see the light of things.

 

As long as I stayed away from the options that set her off on a rant and kept people she disliked out of the party when I took them out on quests, she was an okay character. I had trouble keeping her approval high, maybe that's why she was such an arse in my playthorugh. Her attitude really sucks. There's crazy and then there's biggoted transphobic racist arse hole.

[Steelcan]

Great, you've put me on the same side as Social Justice Warriors

 

 

 

I need to go rethink my life

[Nathair Nimheil]

Meanwhile, I honestly didn't count how many nameless Venatori I killed while merrily scouting around with my favourite (half)chest-naked Tevinter mage friend. The point is (again) that my Inquisitor supervised, approved and phisically did the killing.

Then all I see is you protesting because Sera demonstrated independent volition, just like you do. She's not bad or wrong, she didn't do anything you don't do, you just want to be The Boss even when you're just tagging along on her personal quest and her behaving as if she were a real person annoyed you. That about it?

[Barathos]

Sadly, words come with meanings already attached. Once incident is not a spree.

Meanwhile, how many Venatori did you kill with Dorian?

Nobles who do questionable things, and sometimes downright bad things, to their servants =/= Tevinter Imperium who want to destroy the world.

[Hazegurl]

Really? In this game you consider one dead noble a "killing spree"? And how many Venatori did you kill for Dorian's quest?

Are we really comparing a random noble to the enemies of Thedas?

 

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I find her very transphobic, even though she's a lesbian she's very bigoted against "other" lesbians, gay or trans people in game, she practices cultural erasure on her own people and if you do any "elf" related things, she downright hates your guts for it. Although I agree with some things she says about her people, her complete disregard of their struggle and her downright racist attitude unless you're a Qunari is really jarring. She loves dat Qunari girl on girl action.

 

Also her relationship with a Dalish elf is very problematic and abusive "Pick me or your clan" type of bull**it. And the stuff that comes out of her mouth sometimes, it's infuriating. I know it's supposed to be the "street / crazy" person on the group but JFC you can't rebuttle any of her crap or even try to get her to see the light of things.

 

As long as I stayed away from the options that set her off on a rant and kept people she disliked out of the party when I took them out on quests, she was an okay character. I had trouble keeping her approval high, maybe that's why she was such an arse in my playthorugh. Her attitude really sucks. There's crazy and then there's biggoted transphobic racist arse hole.

How the heck do you get a Transphobic vibe off of Sera?

 

Transphobia is a portmanteau word patterned on the term homophobia. It derives from the English neo-classical prefix trans- (meaning "across, on the far side, beyond") from transgender and the root -phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, phóbos, "fear") found in homophobia. Along with biphobia, homophobia and transphobia are members of the family of terms used when intolerance and discrimination is directed toward LGBT people.

Transphobia need not be a phobia as defined in clinical psychology (i.e., an anxiety disorder). Its meaning and use typically parallel those of xenophobia.

The adjectival form transphobic describes things or qualities related to transphobia, whereas the noun transphobe is a label for people thought to harbor transphobia.

 

I've observed no such discrimination from Sera against other gays or the transgender character Krem.  I have seen no footage which implies any intolerance or phobia used against LGBT characters.  In fact her banters with Dorian and Bull (gay male and bi male) are some of the most playful and friendly banters I've heard so far in party composition.  Neither is she racist against any characters of a particular race or ethnicity.  She hates the superiority complex of Dalish Elves (and rightfully so), but the Dalish are NOT a separate race.  They barely qualify as a tribal or sub-culture. 

 

If you don't like Sera, by all means hate on her all you want.  But let's be clear and not misuse words or make unsubstantiated assertions that are patently false.

[Hazegurl]

Then all I see is you protesting because Sera demonstrated independent volition, just like you do. She's not bad or wrong, she didn't do anything you don't do, you just want to be The Boss even when you're just tagging along on her personal quest and her behaving as if she were a real person annoyed you. That about it?

Like it or not but the Inquisitor is Sera's Boss. And if the killing isn't approved then the Boss has the go ahead to terminate the employee.  Hence why the option to kick her out during the confrontation is there. Sera used company resources so the Boss (Inquisitor) is hardly just a tag along.

 

Although in my case, I didn't kick her because she killed the man, I kicked her after she escalated to veiled threats against me. I can't speak for others on why they kicked her out during that scene, but I still wouldn't say their reasons are invalid. 

[Nathair Nimheil]

I find her very transphobic, even though she's a lesbian she's very bigoted against "other" lesbians, gay or trans people in game
<...>
Her attitude really sucks. There's crazy and then there's biggoted transphobic racist arse hole.

Transphobic, don't tell me, let me guess. ONE SENTENCE in the entire game, right? She is disgustedly listing all the things that the nobles in the room are trying to hide/reveal about each other and one of those things is "he's a she", right? And from that you've decided she, not the people she's sneering at for saying it, is transphobic, right?
 

she practices cultural erasure on her own people

They are not "her own people", that's actually quite racist. Sera disdains the Dalish ethos for reasons she makes quite clear and she is well within her rights to do so. The Dalish, in many ways, stand directly against her egalitarian, forward looking world view. You seem to be suggesting that should not disdain a culture that opposes everything she embraces because Elf.

(And despite your claims about "cultural erasure" Sera is actually a member of the minority within the minority. Cultural erasure requires power.)

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Are we really comparing a random noble to the enemies of Thedas?

Tevinter is part of the continent of Thedas.  It is also considered the only defensive bastion against the Qunari.  It has poor relations with much of Southern Thedas, but that does not make it the "enemy of Thadas".  And let's be clear here, the Venatori are a SMALL subgroup that doesn't even have the majority approval of the Magisters of Tevinter.  They are a dangerous group, but the opening text of the war table mission that Dorian gives you for the Hunting Venatori specifically says that killing them is as much personal for him, as it might also benefit the Inquisition. 

 

The comparison that was drawn was to illustrate that Sera's missions being labelled a personal crusade are not being held up to the same lack of scrutiny that missions such as Dorian's are.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Are we really comparing a random noble to the enemies of Thedas?

Oh, I see. So you kill Tevinters 'cause they're really bad ('cept for Dorian, of course) but that Noble only casually murdered a few servants which is like, pffft, whatever.

 

I see why you think Sera overreacted. I also see why Sera gets so angry that she thinks some people need to be beaten to death.

 

 

[Barathos]

Oh, I see. So you kill Tevinters 'cause they're really bad ('cept for Dorian, of course) but that Noble only casually murdered a few servants which is like, pffft, whatever.

 

I see why you think Sera overreacted. I also see why Sera gets so angry that she thinks some people need to be beaten to death.

 

Either somebody is ignoring facts or you just havn't done the mage side of the game.

 

Wait no, that's not even it. The Venatori side with Coryphesus and plot to re-open the fade and destroy the world. How on earth is that the same as killing 2-3 servants?

 

People dying is bad, but this is kind of a medieval world where death is quite prevalent. Nobles kill nobles. Nobles kill servants. Servants kill servants. People kill people. It's the cycle of death that is Thedas. But comparing a small-time noble who really has no actual power vs the Venatori WHO CAN BEND TIME is ridiculous and is a terrible, terrible comparison.

[Steelcan]

Wait, are we seriously comparing killing a noble who could potentially be helpful to the Inquisition with killing extremist cultists who want to make Corypheus a God?

[Nathair Nimheil]

Like it or not but the Inquisitor is Sera's Boss. And if the killing isn't approved then the Boss has the go ahead to terminate the employee.  Hence why the option to kick her out during the confrontation is there.

The option to kick Sera out is always there, nobody is saying you can't do it. We are just calling out the blatant hypocrisy in claiming that Sera is somehow less moral because she kills on her own terms instead of on the Inquisitior's terms. (Plus, see my sig.)
 

I kicked her after she escalated to veiled threats against me.

Could you explain that? Remember that not everyone sees the same dialogue.

[Nathair Nimheil]

How on earth is that the same as killing 2-3 servants?

I did not say it was the same. The issue is all the people suggesting Sera killing that murderous noble set her Beyond the moral Pale, yet Dorian killing ten times that many Venatori goes completely without comment.
 

People dying is bad, but this is kind of a medieval world where death is quite prevalent. Nobles kill nobles. Nobles kill servants. Servants kill servants. People kill people. It's the cycle of death that is Thedas.

Except for Sera. Sera kills a noble and CLUTCH MY PEARLS! WHAT A PSYCHO!, right? You can't have it both ways. If murder is how things get done in Thedas than what Sera does to that noble is not something to get all bent out of shape about.