2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Walrider]

Doesn't change Velanna's treatment of the city elves or intolerance of all non-Dalish, though, or the Dalish use of "flat ears" as a slur against City elves. Or things like this bit of lore from the codex in DAO: 

 

One elf does not an entire culture make. Velanna is one elf. So is Gisharel.

 

There are shitty people and good people from all walks of life. The Dalish are no better or worse in that regard. But just like in real life, it tends to be the nastiest voices that scream the loudest.

 

My point was that each clan is different, and thus how they treat outsides - human and elven - is different. Some are worse than others. Dude, you pointing out two individual elves does not change that.

 

If we're going elf-by-elf basis, look at Felassan. He's wary of humans, but he's not cruel, and he was awesome to Briala, who was very much a city elf. Then there's the Sebrae clan, previously lead by Marethari; wary of humans, but no outright hostility, and Marethari herself very accommodating. 

 

You're trying to paint the Dalish as one unified, crappy culture.

 

You can't because they're not even unified.

[skotie]

Watch again and listen.  Just in case you have a hearing problem, here's a transcript below of what is said.

In case you are unfamiliar with the trope of monologuing, that's what this would-be villain was doing.  He flat out states that he is opposed to you, that he was plotting against you, and he throws fireballs at you.  If you genuinely disbelieve Sera's claims that this fellow was bad news and count her words as the ravings of a lunatic, then you are deluding yourself.

Yet those chantry sisters back in val royeaux also considered me an enemy of the chantry and that I was responsible for the divines death. Should I go shoot them in the face as well!  Yes he claimed to be my enemy, likely he was similar to the Aevar who attacked me in the swamp, had that barbarian gave me a chance to talk him down and let him live I might have done so. The fact that the guy stops to talk to me gives the impression I may have had the opportunity to do just that had she not just shot him in the face before I had a chance!

 

Then I find out this lunatic yes I said lunatic stole the remaining guards pants for no reason I guess because she thought "No breeches".

 

Stop making excuses for her! You showed up at his secret meeting kill two guards and your surprized when he attacks you!? Wow. Yes he then goes on to claim to be my enemy Yes I am VERY SCARED!!! If he's my enemy why am I not the one to decide his fate?

 

He didn't need to die in my opinion, maybe if after I talk to him he still attacks me anyways, but did she wait for that to happen no!

[adun12345]

I found Sera one of the more interesting characters.  She's an interesting examination of the intersectionality of race and class.  Sera is a working class person living out her revenge fantasies against people who are better off materially.  She defines herself according to her class instead of her race, which leads to some great, awkward moments between her and Solas.

 

She is annoying at times, but I appreciate Bioware's inclusion of characters who are more than simple racial stereotypes (as so much fantasy fiction often is).

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Yet those chantry sisters back in val royeaux also considered me an enemy of the chantry and that I was responsible for the divines death. Should I go shoot them in the face as well!  Yes he claimed to be my enemy, likely he was similar to the Aevar who attacked me in the swamp, had that barbarian gave me a chance to talk him down and let him live I might have done so. The fact that the guy stops to talk to me gives the impression I may have had the opportunity to do just that had she not just shot him in the face before I had a chance!

 

Then I find out this lunatic yes I said lunatic stole the remaining guards pants for no reason i guess because she thought "No breeches".

 

Stop making excuses for her! You showed up at his secret meeting kill two guards and your surprized when he attacks you!? Wow. Yes he then goes on to claim to be my enemy Yes I am VERY SCARED!!! If he's my enemy why am I not the one to decide his fate?

 

He didn't need to die in my opinion, maybe if after I talk to him he still attacks me anyways, but did she wait for that to happen no!

There are times when I really wish BSN forums had an Ignore function....

[AresKeith]

Yet those chantry sisters back in val royeaux also considered me an enemy of the chantry and that I was responsible for the divines death. Should I go shoot them in the face as well!  Yes he claimed to be my enemy, likely he was similar to the Aevar who attacked me in the swamp, had that barbarian gave me a chance to talk him down and let him live I might have done so. The fact that the guy stops to talk to me gives the impression I may have had the opportunity to do just that had she not just shot him in the face before I had a chance!

 

Then I find out this lunatic yes I said lunatic stole the remaining guards pants for no reason I guess because she thought "No breeches".

 

Stop making excuses for her! You showed up at his secret meeting kill two guards and your surprized when he attacks you!? Wow. Yes he then goes on to claim to be my enemy Yes I am VERY SCARED!!! If he's my enemy why am I not the one to decide his fate?

 

He didn't need to die in my opinion, maybe if after I talk to him he still attacks me anyways, but did she wait for that to happen no!

 

       

 

 

There are times when I really wish BSN forums had an Ignore function....

 

It does

[skotie]

There are times when I really wish BSN forums had an Ignore function....

Something we can both agree on at least.

[cindercatz]

@op

I dunno. I love her. I don't know if I'll ever roll a quizzy that agrees with her on everything, but she's super easygoing, she admits her faults (even if she sticks with them), she likes to have fun, and her whole purpose in life is to be a fly in the ointment and challenge all the asses on their high horses and all their sacred cows. And the world needs people like her. Even if she doesn't listen to Solas (my other favorite companion this time), she's succinct about it and doesn't have any animosity. She likes living in the moment, she's kind of a typical androstian city elf, and she's self consciously scared of the things your typical thedosian pleb is scared of, but she's not malicious about it. She's an interesting character with a new perspective for the series. And she points her arrows where people should point their arrows, so I like her.

[dekarserverbot]

@op

I dunno. I love her. I don't know if I'll ever roll a quizzy that agrees with her on everything, but she's super easygoing, she admits her faults (even if she sticks with them), she likes to have fun, and her whole purpose in life is to be a fly in the ointment and challenge all the asses on their high horses and all their sacred cows. And the world needs people like her. Even if she doesn't listen to Solas (my other favorite companion this time), she's succinct about it and doesn't have any animosity. She likes living in the moment, she's kind of a typical androstian city elf, and she's self consciously scared of the things your typical thedosian pleb is scared of, but she's not malicious about it. She's an interesting character with a new perspective for the series. And she points her arrows where people should point their arrows, so I like her.

 

Exactly as i said in the first post... this character evolves if you have enough patience with her... sadly she takes it up to eleven.

Unless i decide to play another Anders like character (real Anders, the one from awakening) I doubt any inquisitor will bear with her after Inquisition needs bees without meta-gaming.

[KaiserShep]

Yet those chantry sisters back in val royeaux also considered me an enemy of the chantry and that I was responsible for the divines death. Should I go shoot them in the face as well!  Yes he claimed to be my enemy, likely he was similar to the Aevar who attacked me in the swamp, had that barbarian gave me a chance to talk him down and let him live I might have done so. The fact that the guy stops to talk to me gives the impression I may have had the opportunity to do just that had she not just shot him in the face before I had a chance!

 

Then I find out this lunatic yes I said lunatic stole the remaining guards pants for no reason I guess because she thought "No breeches".

 

Stop making excuses for her! You showed up at his secret meeting kill two guards and your surprized when he attacks you!? Wow. Yes he then goes on to claim to be my enemy Yes I am VERY SCARED!!! If he's my enemy why am I not the one to decide his fate?

 

He didn't need to die in my opinion, maybe if after I talk to him he still attacks me anyways, but did she wait for that to happen no!

 

I didn't get the impression from that fool that he was particularly open to negotiating. He was wasting his time monologuing and posturing about how important he was. If someone fires a weapon or shoots fireballs at me or something like that, he better not waste what precious little of his life he has left getting huffy. Besides, he actually states that he is your enemy, which was pretty dumb on his part. It's like he was wearing a kill me sign on his back.

[cindercatz]

Exactly as i said in the first post... this character evolves if you have enough patience with her... sadly she takes it up to eleven.

Unless i decide to play another Anders like character (real Anders, the one from awakening) I doubt any inquisitor will bear with her after Inquisition needs bees without meta-gaming.

lol I like her intensity. After the whole repeated knee to the face kill thing, I was like 'Wow, nice day's work' ha

[robertthebard]

Yet those chantry sisters back in val royeaux also considered me an enemy of the chantry and that I was responsible for the divines death. Should I go shoot them in the face as well!  Yes he claimed to be my enemy, likely he was similar to the Aevar who attacked me in the swamp, had that barbarian gave me a chance to talk him down and let him live I might have done so. The fact that the guy stops to talk to me gives the impression I may have had the opportunity to do just that had she not just shot him in the face before I had a chance!
 
Then I find out this lunatic yes I said lunatic stole the remaining guards pants for no reason I guess because she thought "No breeches".
 
Stop making excuses for her! You showed up at his secret meeting kill two guards and your surprized when he attacks you!? Wow. Yes he then goes on to claim to be my enemy Yes I am VERY SCARED!!! If he's my enemy why am I not the one to decide his fate?
 
He didn't need to die in my opinion, maybe if after I talk to him he still attacks me anyways, but did she wait for that to happen no!

Was that guy your cousin or something? An NPC with bad intentions, towards you, died. In the annuls of video game history, that's going to go down as the most heinous crime ever committed. I actually wasn't surprised that he attacked me, after all, I actually listened to what he said. I know, right, what a novel idea. When the guy throwing fireballs at me starts talking about how he's planning things against me, I don't get all broken up over it. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Do tell, however, what it was you were going to say to a guy that was plotting to kill you, even though you had no idea who he was, unless he was your cousin, which seems to be the case. I mean, your whole position is based on the fact that Sera killed him. Are you afraid she stole some XP from you or something? What's next? Are you going to threaten to leave us if we don't swing around to your Point of View?

[skotie]

Was that guy your cousin or something? An NPC with bad intentions, towards you, died. In the annuls of video game history, that's going to go down as the most heinous crime ever committed. I actually wasn't surprised that he attacked me, after all, I actually listened to what he said. I know, right, what a novel idea. When the guy throwing fireballs at me starts talking about how he's planning things against me, I don't get all broken up over it. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Do tell, however, what it was you were going to say to a guy that was plotting to kill you, even though you had no idea who he was, unless he was your cousin, which seems to be the case. I mean, your whole position is based on the fact that Sera killed him. Are you afraid she stole some XP from you or something? What's next? Are you going to threaten to leave us if we don't swing around to your Point of View?

O no he was the most awesome evil villian ever there was, I was most thankful for Sera's timely assitance saving me from that fiend who was likely about 100 hp stronger than his guards.

 

The point is tons of people want to kill you or think you're there enemy, I'm not running around slaughtering them all though, you know just because. Why was I supposed to get some pleasure out of killing someone I don't need to, enemies who may not even be worth my time. Perhaps he was behind something big but I suppose we won't know will we, Sera had to be all trigger happy.

[Noelemahc]

I found Sera one of the more interesting characters.  She's an interesting examination of the intersectionality of race and class.  Sera is a working class person living out her revenge fantasies against people who are better off materially.  She defines herself according to her class instead of her race, which leads to some great, awkward moments between her and Solas.

 

She is annoying at times, but I appreciate Bioware's inclusion of characters who are more than simple racial stereotypes (as so much fantasy fiction often is).

Actually, if you're an Elfquisitor, you can have a lot of fun times when she accuses you of being "too elfy" like Solas is, because she's apparently an Andrastean (and you can choose to chew her out for that if you defined your Elfquisitor's faith in the Elven Gods)...

 

Also, sharp social commentary.

"Everything is AAAAAGH when you're small and scared."

[ReadingRambo220]

I don't know a lot about her background yet, could she be Iona's child Amethyne?  Probably a bit of a stretch, but maybe she knew her.  

 

That little girl broke my heart when I first played Origins (my first playthrough was a male human Noble).  If so, her personality makes a lot of sense.  That little girl was left an orphan because of noble's power plays.  She could grow up to resent nobles (males in particular since her mother possibly died sleeping with one).

 

Edit: i have no idea why my text is highlighted in blue >.<

[Heimdall]

I don't know a lot about her background yet, could she be Iona's child Amethyne? Probably a bit of a stretch, but maybe she knew her.

That little girl broke my heart when I first played Origins (my first playthrough was a male human Noble). If so, her personality makes a lot of sense. That little girl was left an orphan because of noble's power plays. She could grow up to resent nobles (males in particular since her mother possibly died sleeping with one).

Edit: i have no idea why my text is highlighted in blue >.<

Neat idea, and Sera was an orphan from Denerim, but she was apparently raised by humans, not in an alienage.

[Melca36]

 

I don't know a lot about her background yet, could she be Iona's child Amethyne?  Probably a bit of a stretch, but maybe she knew her.  

 

That little girl broke my heart when I first played Origins (my first playthrough was a male human Noble).  If so, her personality makes a lot of sense.  That little girl was left an orphan because of noble's power plays.  She could grow up to resent nobles (males in particular since her mother possibly died sleeping with one).

 

Edit: i have no idea why my text is highlighted in blue >.<

 

 

She is not Amethyne. There is a Red Jenny quest in Origins. Amethyne is a little girl.

[DemGeth]

So doing a free Mages play thru.

Vivian is so much more annoying. She steals all your furniture. Tells you that you look terrible. And is the most condescending witch you'll ever meet.

And why's she so devoted to the circle? It's her path to personal power.

Can't believe she touched my things!

[ReadingRambo220]

Well there goes my amazing theory.  I just wish there was some way to help that little girl in DAO or learn of what became of her.

[BadgerladDK]

Funny you mention that because a lot of people were side eying the way DA2 was, Fenris romancing a mage, Anders with Hawke who supports templars etc and called it unrealistic and ridiculous...... and when they finally did that with Sera, people went up in arms about it and are annoyed.

 

 

Bioware just can't win, sadly.

 

I'll go out on a limb here and guess it's *probably* not the same people... Andraste's thighs, I hope so anyway...

[Heimdall]

Well there goes my amazing theory.  I just wish there was some way to help that little girl in DAO or learn of what became of her.

Doesn't really break your theory, Sera isn't the only Red Jenny.

[Bowie Hawkins]

One elf does not an entire culture make. Velanna is one elf. So is Gisharel.

 

They were two examples from the greater whole that shows the Dalish tendency to at best distrust and at worst outright hate non-Dalish. Gisharel is teaching other Dalish contempt for City elves in that codex excerpt, and Velanna is expressing that contempt when she tells the two City elves bowing and scraping before her like "little people" how badly they make her sick. Also, as mentioned before, the common use of "flat ears" among Dalish to refer to City elves.

 

As for Marethari's clan, while Marethari herself may have been welcoming to Hawke, the others of her clan were hostile toward Hawke while she was in their camp.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

 

I don't know a lot about her background yet, could she be Iona's child Amethyne?  Probably a bit of a stretch, but maybe she knew her.  

 

That little girl broke my heart when I first played Origins (my first playthrough was a male human Noble).  If so, her personality makes a lot of sense.  That little girl was left an orphan because of noble's power plays.  She could grow up to resent nobles (males in particular since her mother possibly died sleeping with one).

 

Edit: i have no idea why my text is highlighted in blue >.<

 

OMG, I'm not the only one wondering this?!

 

I've been head-canon-ing that Sera is Amethyne, taken in by a human after what happened in the Alienage events of DAO.  After all, her mother was very close to Lady Landra, the wife of Bann Loren.  It might stand to reason that one of Lady Loren's Ladies-In-Waiting might have taken pity on Amethyne and adopted her, since both her mother Iona and Lady Landra are dead.  I figured it was an idle fantasty of mine, but maybe the logic holds if other people thought of it too!

 

Also, the Red Jenny in Denerim in the time was not Sera obviously.  She mentions being only ten years old and was saved by the Warden later on during the battles raging on. 

 

I know the details aren't the cleanest fit, simply because when the Warden sees Amethyne she's first pining for her mother, then sick in the Alienage.  But it's not entirely ill-fitting either.  I wonder if the Devs might see fit to chime in on that theory?

[Walrider]

They were two examples from the greater whole that shows the Dalish tendency to at best distrust and at worst outright hate non-Dalish. Gisharel is teaching other Dalish contempt for City elves in that codex excerpt, and Velanna is expressing that contempt when she tells the two City elves bowing and scraping before her like "little people" how badly they make her sick. Also, as mentioned before, the common use of "flat ears" among Dalish to refer to City elves.

 

As for Marethari's clan, while Marethari herself may have been welcoming to Hawke, the others of her clan were hostile toward Hawke while she was in their camp.

 

You ignored the rest of what I wrote.

 

Jesus. I'm done.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

You ignored the rest of what I wrote.

 

Jesus. I'm done.

You're POV is a bit "shiny" in my opinion.  The Dalish have several tribes, to be true.  But they share a common culture and origin, this means they will behave as individuals, but as individuals that all have common traits -including bigotry and hostility towards humans.  And yes, most of the Dalish in-game in my experience, are racist and hostile.  Marethari herself has a kindly nature, but even she has her prejudices when speaking of the Shemlen, and her tribesmen were distinctly racist and hostile, which is why I had no problem killing them all in the end of Merill's Quest.

[celestialfury]

They were two examples from the greater whole that shows the Dalish tendency to at best distrust and at worst outright hate non-Dalish. Gisharel is teaching other Dalish contempt for City elves in that codex excerpt, and Velanna is expressing that contempt when she tells the two City elves bowing and scraping before her like "little people" how badly they make her sick. Also, as mentioned before, the common use of "flat ears" among Dalish to refer to City elves.

 

As for Marethari's clan, while Marethari herself may have been welcoming to Hawke, the others of her clan were hostile toward Hawke while she was in their camp.

 

I've never heard of any of those ''dalish are assholes!1!'' people with an argument that wouldn't lead you to conclude that humans are way worse, yet get away with it in the public opinion. Also some city elves like the ones in the Denerim alienage don't even know Dalish elves exist, or would believe the myths Josephine mentions.