2858 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

As for using "little people" and letting them "take the fall", that kind of shows a misunderstanding of how this Red Jenny business works. No one lets anyone take the fall; anyone who gets caught did that on their own. Sera doesn't even know where these people are most of the time.

[Danadenassis]

Strangely, I found her to make lot of sense. She reminds me of the way your character would speak in Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines if playing Malkavian and that was really fantastic I think.

[robertthebard]

I don't get this. Sera's sexuality seems to be little more than coincidental. It doesn't have any discernible effect on her character.

It does if you're looking for something to be offended about.

[Heimdall]

I have not finished the game nor interacted with her much, but for me the hypocrisy is very strongly tied to her short-sightedness. Who do you think actually pays the price for her "fun"? The little people. Every time. She lives in a world in which many nobles degrade and abuse their servants even when said servants keep their heads down and don't do anything wrong. So what happens when messes are made, property goes missing or is damaged and "accidents" befall the high and mighty? Will the targets of her "fun" blame their own clumsiness or passing invisible demons? No, they will inevitably blame their servants, with all the brutal consequences. Eviction, whipping, mutilation, execution. "Fun" for all around. And there is no way that the Red Jennies do not know that, not even with the sort of willful stupidity that Sera has going on.

Actually helping the "little people" would mean charity, "underground railroads" to get abused victims out of hot water, that sort of thing. Not "fun". Not "play". Not letting others take the fall for your actions while you run away cackling "ass-******-pants-LOLOLOL!!!!".

Also, what King Agamemnon says. That, too, is very much part of the 12-year-old-brat nonsense that I mentioned in my first post.

I don't think you really understand what the Red Jennies do. People contact them to get help or a degree of petty revenge. Those servants are the ones requesting their intervention, Sera explains this herself, and then they leave dead drops to say "thanks". They don't send people in, those people are already there and reach out to them. They don't go gallivanting around stealing from nobles at random.

[robertthebard]

As for using "little people" and letting them "take the fall", that kind of shows a misunderstanding of how this Red Jenny business works. No one lets anyone take the fall; anyone who gets caught did that on their own. Sera doesn't even know where these people are most of the time.

More importantly, she doesn't know who these people are. She gets her stuff the same way we're introduced to her, notes wrapped in red. Hence the "You're the one that tipped me about this" in the Wine video. She totally had no idea who he was until he said something.

[Karai9]

 Could one of you specify the hypocrisy you mean.

 

What stands out as hypocritical to me is that Sera wishes to fight for 'the little people' and she hates people that think themselves above everyone, yet she constantly talks down to others. Have an opinion she doesn't like? Well then you're stupid and Sera's smarter/right/better than you are. 

[KaiserShep]

Not sure if that's really the same thjng. After all, we're comparing this to people treating their servants like garbage or doing all-around terrible things.

[Heimdall]

What stands out as hypocritical to me is that Sera wishes to fight for 'the little people' and she hates people that think themselves above everyone, yet she constantly talks down to others. Have an opinion she doesn't like? Well then you're stupid and Sera's smarter/right/better than you are.

I don't think that's the same. Sera hates people that think themselves above others and run roughshod over the "little people" without a second thought. That's why she dislikes nobles, that's why she disapproves of allying with Mages or Templars, it's even related to why she dislikes Dałish "Elfyness".

That's not the same as being close-minded as she can be.

[WildOrchid]

The thread is still going? I'm amazed.

[robertthebard]

The thread is still going? I'm amazed.

Because Sera came to me in a dream and said "If you want to keep your breeches...". So uh, yeah...

[Karai9]

I don't think that's the same. Sera hates people that think themselves above others and run roughshod over the "little people" without a second thought. That's why she dislikes nobles, that's why she disapproves of allying with Mages or Templars, it's even related to why she dislikes Dałish "Elfyness".

That's not the same as being close-minded as she can be.

 

Difference of opinion I guess. I just personally feel that if your goal is for everyone to be treated equally and respectfully then you should probably act that way yourself.

[KaiserShep]

The thread is still going? I'm amazed.

Maybe the love runs deep.

[celestialfury]

First Dalish I usually come across in game is the one seeking elven artifacts in the Hinterlands.

I have Solas in my party and she calls him flat ears...

...

I was shocked when I heard that and was then pissed that she would say that after we helped her and she doesn't know Solas other than he doesn't have face paint on.

He then doesn't respond to it, I can't respond to it, and Solas receives "Inquisitor slightly disapproves."

Just want to share the experience of meeting the Dalish in Inquisition, not counting the times my human was called a Shem.

I was pleased to see an elf not just being "meh" about the dalish and the city elves, like Zevran, but continually show disgust and disapproval over the destructive attitudes that dalish and city elves tend to show.


Also, she doesn't hate people in power. Sera hates people who treat others as tools. Sera does not use her Friends, they use her.

 

...what? that's not how it happens at all, in my game she certainly didn't call him flat ears and didn't react to solas at all except giving him back the amulet after he spoke  to her in the elven language. 

[KaiserShep]

Difference of opinion I guess. I just personally feel that if your goal is for everyone to be treated equally and respectfully then you should probably act that way yourself.

That's never really the stated goal either. There's no change-the-world ideal. It's simply to poke and harass higher-ups for laughs or money should they treat the help like dirt or do other rotten things that they don't like.

[Nathair Nimheil]

What stands out as hypocritical to me is that Sera wishes to fight for 'the little people' and she hates people that think themselves above everyone, yet she constantly talks down to others. Have an opinion she doesn't like? Well then you're stupid and Sera's smarter/right/better than you are.

You've misunderstood "the little people". Sera's concern is with people without power (authority, recourse, etc.) being misused, abused or exploited by those who do have power. She's concerned with imbalance and "punching down." That really doesn't have anything to do with her thinking you've said something stupid, after all, if there's any imbalance in that relationship it's not in Sera's favour, Inquisitor.

Punching up is funny, punching across is fair, punching down is what makes Sera pull out the arrows. That is not hypocrisy.

[Karai9]

That's never really the stated goal either. There's no change-the-world ideal. It's simply to poke and harass higher-ups for laughs or money should they treat the help like dirt or do other rotten things that they don't like.

 

*shrugs* my opinion is my opinion. Going from my original post, Sera's debated hypocrisy isn't even my real issue with her. Hell, I probably wouldn't even care about it if I even remotely liked anything else about her (After all, Fenris is one of my favourite DA characters and no one needs to point out to me how hypocritical he is).

[Nathair Nimheil]

Because Sera came to me in a dream and said "If you want to keep your breeches...". So uh, yeah...

What breeches?! When Sera comes to me in a dream...

[robertthebard]

*shrugs* my opinion is my opinion. Going from my original post, Sera's debated hypocrisy isn't even my real issue with her. Hell, I probably wouldn't even care about it if I even remotely liked anything else about her (After all, Fenris is one of my favourite DA characters and no one needs to point out to me how hypocritical he is).

Oh come on, Fenris/Mage Hawke is the height of comedy.

[robertthebard]

What breeches?! When Sera comes to me in a dream...

I'm not a girl...

[Heimdall]

Difference of opinion I guess. I just personally feel that if your goal is for everyone to be treated equally and respectfully then you should probably act that way yourself.

Oh, but that isn't her goal, or the goal of the Friends of Red Jenny. Solas and Sera have a conversation about this. The Friends aren't interested in revolution or changing the status quo. (Sera says it would be pointless because once you lop off the top, you'd just get a new top doing the same old things). They just make the status quo more bearable for the "little people". They're sorta like the A-Team, they help people out, sometimes more violently than others.

[dekarserverbot]

I don't get this. Sera's sexuality seems to be little more than coincidental. It doesn't have any discernible effect on her character.

 

Me neither, if she was straight or bi she would still get what she is looking for: hatred from the 4th wall.

 

As i said my only issue with her is she being hypocrite, i don't join the hatedom-train as many users, but while roleplaying other inquisitors is hard to not kick her without meta-gaming, ie: Anders was friends with her but his nonmage little sister kicked her after her opinion on mages, not doing it would be meta-gaming.

 

The only way i can keep her is by Roleplaying high willpowered, funny and non-berserker inquisitors, otherwise she ends fired.

[Karai9]

You've misunderstood "the little people". Sera's concern is with people without power (authority, recourse, etc.) being misused, abused or exploited by those who do have power. 

 

I think you've misunderstood me. This is pretty much a spot on summation of my understanding of "the little people". 

[Karai9]

Oh, but that isn't her goal, or the goal of the Friends of Red Jenny. Solas and Sera have a conversation about this. The Friends aren't interested in revolution or changing the status quo. (Sera says it would be pointless because once you lop off the top, you'd just get a new top doing the same old things). They just make the status quo more bearable for the "little people". They're sorta like the A-Team, they help people out, sometimes more violently than others.

Well, I will freely admit that I almost never take Sera anywhere with me, so I haven't witnessed that conversation. My problem isn't with what the Friends of Red Jenny stand for, but with Sera's attitude. 

[Korva]

I understand what the Jennies do. I also understand that it's BS to assume that there are no hideous consequences for it. Their targets will lash out and hit anyone below them in retaliation, evidence or no, involved or not. This is the sort of "rebel without a clue, who cares about consequences" crap that simply does not work, at least if you actually, honestly care for "helping the little people" instead of your own "fun" and "profit". Even when one of the servants asks for a come-uppance, honest help would mean saying "Hell no, do you want to get yourself or another servant tortured and killed, or thrown out to starve in the streets?" followed by trying to get them out of there. How does stealing a noble's jewelry to reward some other yokel who made him fall on his ass on a too-slick floor (paraphrased from Sera's explanation) actually help anyone? Cheap laughs or momentary satisfaction hardly make up for the indiscriminate punishment that WILL follow.

 

As for her sexuality, yes, it does not define the character. But that does not change the fact that the sole lesbian is a grotesque, immature, stereotypical caricature. When you're finally writing a single character who belongs to a marginalized, fetishized, vilified minority and the result is this? It's fucked up. Before anyone makes the predicable accusation that I only want minority characters to be perfect angels: no. Hell no. I want a wide variety of personalities and ethical stances. I want heroes and villains and anything in between. But I do not want a caricature as the first, only example. Or even the second or third. Because there's too much of that **** already in what little we see of said minorities.

[Karai9]

<snip>

If only I could like this multiple times!