2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Karai9]

Can i just frekin like her with out haveing to justify it?

Of course not, this is the BSN 

[Sully13]

what? she gives me a girl boner and even looks a bit like me.. hell its like Biowere made me in game she even has my dodgy personal hygene.

[Korva]

First, I think you overestimate the consequences most servants are likely to face.

When dealing with the sort of person who deserves a comeuppance from wannabe Robin Hoods, I just think it's hard as well as foolish to overestimate consequences, at least if you're anywhere near his potential line of fire. Again: it doesn't matter a whit who is or isn't guilty or what evidence is or isn't there. Someone still has to pay the piper for missing or broken stuff or messes made or injuries sustained or even "just" (and in fact maybe worst of all, especially if it happens in public) attacks on the lord's or lady's dignity. Hell, a particularly bad guy may lash out all the worse when there's no obvious target for blame, because "clearly" it's a "conspiracy" among all the servants.

 

Sure, once in a blue moon maybe someone will laugh it off as "jolly good sport there, my chaps", or learn a life-lesson from it or just decide to ignore it as below her/his notice. And not many will respond to a spilled chamberpot by having a dozen randomly selected servants (or their dependants, for extra sadism) strung from the rafters. Still, the more hateable the targets of Sera's "fun" are, the worse the "pranks" sting, the worse the consequences are likely going to be. It's one thing if your defiance is so minor that only you know, like in one of Solas' anecdotes of a qunari baker rebelling by putting a pinch of sugar in each loaf of bread while no one can see. THAT is credible and sadly touching. But if the point is to be noticable and tangible while your life and possibly the lives of your extended family depend on a noble's questionable good graces, then you're playing with fire big time.

 

Consequence-free revenge fantasies against people who have all the power while you have none may make for a good mental power trip now and then, but are bloody hard to actually, credibly pull off.

 

A genuine stop-abuse-and-help-the-little-people Robin Hood could have been an interesting character, but Sera simply isn't it in my book. I don't have the stomach to put up with her BS on the off-chance that later content makes her a little less of an obnoxious, short-sighted, everyone-but-me-is-stupid brat. YMMV and that is fine. I would never go into a Sera-lover thread to insult her or her fans. But this is a thread asking why people dislike her, and there are definite reasons to feel that way.

 

 

...See, I guess I don't see the problem because I don't think of her as a representative of a sexuality. Also, I enjoy her character. She has more depth than you give her credit, and I applaud that she really doesn't match any archetype I've come to expect from Bioware.

 

She does match the "crazy lesbo" and "dudebro with ******" stereotypes that I for one am quite sick of. Her sexuality is not her defining trait by any means and I never said it was, but the fact remains that a solitary character from a marginalized minority comes under a different scrunity than if they were a straight white cis dude. There are countless straight white cis dude characters wherever you look, good and evil, mature and infantile, stoic and whacky, well-written and lazy caricature. That is great (well, minus the lazy caricature bit). It should be like that for everyone. A single rotten egg among the straight white cis dude characters will still stink, but it it won't be the only representation of his gender identity, color and orientation that people will see -- especially "people like him" who were hoping that finally "they" can be visible in some form in a well-loved franchise, too. Once that visibility is a comfortable and trusted reality, a character who hits a bunch of wrong notes, hard, makes a different impression than when they were alone.

[Massadonious1]

Say what you will about her character, but she does bring out the best in others via banter.

 

Dorian: Sera, where do all your arrows come from?

 

Sera: Your a**.

 

Dorian: Well, my a** should open up a shop.

[Sully13]

Why is it that being a straight white male is a bad thing now regardless of weather or not you did anything wrong?  

dude she is funny.. thats it isnt it?

she is funny and i forgot sjws hate fun.

[Korva]

If you're referring to me, Su Lu Pi, at least have the decency not to put words in my mouth AKA lying about something I never said or never would. Nor has anyone else in this thread, as far as I can tell from the last pages.

[Sully13]

nope wasnt doing that i posted on the wrong forum sorry and it wasnt aimed at you.

[Nathair Nimheil]

When dealing with the sort of person who deserves a comeuppance from wannabe Robin Hoods, I just think it's hard as well as foolish to overestimate consequences, at least if you're anywhere near his potential line of fire.

Like Sera, Robin Hood was an outlaw. The Merry Men and the Red Jennies are also already "outlaws". One large difference, of course, is that Robin Hood took charge of the Merry Men and organized them. Sera is just one RJ among many others, leaderless and entirely voluntary.

However, if you are suggesting that Sera (and everybody else) should just meekly submit and ignore injustice for fear of wanton reprisal hitting innocent targets... that's appalling.

[Dean_the_Young]

Indeed.

 

If you anthropomorphize diverse groups of peoples over the course of hundreds of years into timeless beings of personalized experiences and interactioms who can then be projected back upon everyone to credit (or discredit) entire generations of people with actions they had no participation in or influence over, sure.

 

Personally, I don't- there's a reason why 'concise' is not a synonym with 'accurate' or 'reasonable.' And since humans are not hive minds conveniently grouped by race which equate the crimes of people hundreds of years ago with guilt on those alive today...

 

Personally I like to think we've progressed as a culture enough to not blame and hold individuals responsible for things they didn't do.

 

But it's a moot point regardless. To the best of my knowledge I have no ancestors who were ever in the US when there were slaves.

[Dean_the_Young]

However, if you are suggesting that Sera (and everybody else) should just meekly submit and ignore injustice for fear of wanton reprisal hitting innocent targets... that's appalling.

 

That's a false delimma. There's a great deal of middle ground between 'meekly submit and ignore injustice' and 'recklessly and carelessly endanger others in the name of defiance.'

 

 

Edit: Just to clarify- I do agree with your overarching point. Just not this supporting argument.

[SilentNukee]

She has the best VA... Whether you hate her or not, you have to admit it. She really goes all out in emotion and stuff.

[Dean_the_Young]

Speaking as someone who is acutely familiar with legal use of force issues, just because someone has stopped aggressive violence and starts to talk doesn't mean anyone- civil, police, or military is obligated to stop use of lethal force once it's already been initiated.  There are many factors that go into continuing use of lethal force, including the likelihood of a ruse, civilian or officer safety, and situational conditions that extension of the violent situation might exacerbate.  There is no blanket moral, ethical, or legal binding requirement to refrain from putting down a violent perpetrator once lethal combat has been initiated.

 

Or even disarmed, or apparently unarmed. Drug-enforcement ROEs are sometimes looser than military ROE, and even that doesn't always require a visible weapon.

[Mythos Engineer]

I disliked Sera almost right away, mostly because of her personality. She also looks a lot like someone I dated once who decided that she would rather do cocaine than be in a meaningful relationship with reality. So there was that, but Sera as a whole, I just really dislike how she acts, and her views on things. She also has one of the worst English accents I know of. Two of my neighbours have that accent, and I hear it way more than I like as it is. I avoid taking Sera out at all. The only exceptions were her personal quests, and a little venture to every zone to hear her banter with Solas, and Cole. I can see her appeal to others, but she just isn't my cup of tea.

[Heimdall]

When dealing with the sort of person who deserves a comeuppance from wannabe Robin Hoods, I just think it's hard as well as foolish to overestimate consequences, at least if you're anywhere near his potential line of fire. Again: it doesn't matter a whit who is or isn't guilty or what evidence is or isn't there. Someone still has to pay the piper for missing or broken stuff or messes made or injuries sustained or even "just" (and in fact maybe worst of all, especially if it happens in public) attacks on the lord's or lady's dignity. Hell, a particularly bad guy may lash out all the worse when there's no obvious target for blame, because "clearly" it's a "conspiracy" among all the servants.
 
Sure, once in a blue moon maybe someone will laugh it off as "jolly good sport there, my chaps", or learn a life-lesson from it or just decide to ignore it as below her/his notice. And not many will respond to a spilled chamberpot by having a dozen randomly selected servants (or their dependants, for extra sadism) strung from the rafters. Still, the more hateable the targets of Sera's "fun" are, the worse the "pranks" sting, the worse the consequences are likely going to be. It's one thing if your defiance is so minor that only you know, like in one of Solas' anecdotes of a qunari baker rebelling by putting a pinch of sugar in each loaf of bread while no one can see. THAT is credible and sadly touching. But if the point is to be noticable and tangible while your life and possibly the lives of your extended family depend on a noble's questionable good graces, then you're playing with fire big time.

Again, the actions you describe are those of irrational psychopaths. If those were commonly the result of Sera's actions, she wouldn't do it. Again, I encourage you to look up the pranking with the Inquisitor moment. Despite her usual demeanor, she is actually quite thoughtful regarding how her prank will effect her target and possible consequences for others. Besides that, there's just no indication that the sort of thing you describe is happening. Remember, it's often a noble's own servants that call on her. They wouldn't do that if they, knowing their employer, expected to be harshly punished for something ruining his day.
 

She does match the "crazy lesbo" and "dudebro with ******" stereotypes that I for one am quite sick of. Her sexuality is not her defining trait by any means and I never said it was, but the fact remains that a solitary character from a marginalized minority comes under a different scrunity than if they were a straight white cis dude. There are countless straight white cis dude characters wherever you look, good and evil, mature and infantile, stoic and whacky, well-written and lazy caricature. That is great (well, minus the lazy caricature bit). It should be like that for everyone. A single rotten egg among the straight white cis dude characters will still stink, but it it won't be the only representation of his gender identity, color and orientation that people will see -- especially "people like him" who were hoping that finally "they" can be visible in some form in a well-loved franchise, too. Once that visibility is a comfortable and trusted reality, a character who hits a bunch of wrong notes, hard, makes a different impression than when they were alone.

I suppose I might just not be familiar enough with those stereotypes to be offended. Then again, I seem to remember one of their writers describing the process and they said they didn't choose which would be LIs until they already had the characters all roughed out. So I don't think she was deliberately written to be a stereotype.

[Adrianna]

Sera is afraid of change more than anything.. and she makes sure you know that many many many times.. as she keeps saying she wants things to return to normal to go back the way they were. and any aspect of change frightens her.. she joined because she was curious if you really were the herald of andraste.. but shes also terrified because if you are.. then that means everything else like the maker ect is real.. and if your not then that means its not real.. and shes afraid.. she just wants to go back to how things were before when she didn't have to think about change...

Also in many conversations she is asked why she doesn't try to take down the nobles and "change" things... she pushes the thought away and instead does something stupid to avoid the question... Shes terrified of change even if the change would benefit her belief.. she doesn't want anything to change even if that change was getting rid of the nobles... she hates nobles... but she fears change so doesn't really want to do anything about it and would rather just continue messing with them and playing pranks than actually changing anything.

This is why no matter what you do you cant convince her of anything.. she doesn't want to change.. she is terrified of change and its why shed rather joke around and avoid topics she doesn't want to hear about.

But at the same time as all of this.. shes also afraid of being nothing... shes afraid of being insignificant.. which contradicts with her fear of change.. its why she joins you.. in the fade her greatest fear is to be nothing.. but being anything contradicts with her fear of change. Because of her contradicting fears shes pretty messed up.

[Daerog]

True, it was said even before the game came out that she thinks in the now and doesn't really like or care when people think in the "long term" because she feels it ignores what is happening in the now.

 

She'll leave people to doing long term stuff, as long as it doesn't harm the little people in the now. Which is why she doesn't like Briala, justifying the harming of others with some "long term" plan.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's never really the stated goal either. There's no change-the-world ideal. It's simply to poke and harass higher-ups for laughs or money should they treat the help like dirt or do other rotten things that they don't like.

 

The revolution will not be televised, but it will be petty. And without breaches. Hence why it isn't fit for TV.

[AzureAardvark]

The revolution will not be televised, but it will be petty. And without breaches. Hence why it isn't fit for TV.

 

We'll always have cable.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Personally I like to think we've progressed as a culture enough to not blame and hold individuals responsible for things they didn't do.

You have profoundly misunderstood the point. It is not about blame. It is not about individuals. It is about position and privilege right now.

 

Look at the last frame. Does it matter how they got there? Does erasing all previous frames somehow put them both on the same platform?

[Nathair Nimheil]

That's a false delimma. There's a great deal of middle ground between 'meekly submit and ignore injustice' and 'recklessly and carelessly endanger others in the name of defiance.'

 

 

Edit: Just to clarify- I do agree with your overarching point. Just not this supporting argument.

So... what? Carefully and with forethought take action while trying to minimize fallout?

 

How is that not Red Jenny?

[hairlessOrphan]

I hate her because she's a caricature. She's just written so ... shoddy. You know? She's the rich man's straw man of the common man.

 

I hate her twice because her concept was so great, and her voice actor was clearly the best of this game's cast. She should have been a legendary character, she could have raised amazing and uncomfortable questions and provoked actual thought and meaningful debate. But then they let some rich EA exec's 17 year-old nephew write her script. So some privileged teen rebel trying to be a blue-collar adult writes her to be ... a caricature of a teenage rebel trying to be a blue-collar adult. Ungh.

 

I hate her three times because her reasoning is stupid, but her 17-year-old EA-exec's-nephew writer doesn't realize it, because he thinks he's legit and super smart, because all teenagers think that. So the only dialogue options you get in response to her are the only ones her writer can think of: 1) omg u r soooo rite! or 2) lol u cray cray.

 

Such a waste of an amazing opportunity. And now she can't ever be done again, because it'll just be a ripoff.

[Ziegrif]

Were still at it?

 

Damn...

 

Whoever wrote her to be this damn polarizing did a damn fine job.

[WarBaby2]

I kinda have to agree with Orphan... she is the idea of an anarchic robin hood/malcom X character, but turned out as some form of punk pixie with anger management issues.

[Heimdall]

You have profoundly misunderstood the point. It is not about blame. It is not about individuals. It is about position and privilege right now.
 
Look at the last frame. Does it matter how they got there? Does erasing all previous frames somehow put them both on the same platform?

If it doesn't matter how they got there, what's the point of the comic?

As to your final question, explain what exactly "privilege" is. Because as a white person, I've become sick and tired of the racist assumption that I am "privileged".

[Britcorp]

If it doesn't matter how they got there, what's the point of the comic?

As to your final question, explain what exactly "privilege" is. Because as a white person, I've become sick and tired of the racist assumption that I am "privileged".

The point of the comic is to make white people feel guilty for being born white.

 

It's the new version of original sin that has come with the new religion of Social Justice.