2858 réponses à ce sujet

[hairlessOrphan]

See, there it is again. You tell us you understand, but you don't understand. So I guess the answer to your trick question is you? Because we've demonstrated over and over how Red Jenny functions, and you insist that it's her fault.

Edit: The very first operation to pop up for Red Jenny is "The Inquisition needs bees".

 

You're taking this awfully personal. Please stop talking to me until you calm down.

 

PS - you are right, the first table mission was the bees. It's the second one, the Verchiel one.

[Nathair Nimheil]

When she uses other people - and gets them killed - it's all good for her. A total laugh riot, in fact. It's that kind of thing that makes her a teenager and an idiot.

Doesn't happen. Didn't happen. She does not "put people" into those situations (unlike say, the Inquisitor, Leliana, Cullen.) And when "Jenny people" dies she is light years from amused. Did you actually think that her beating to death the noble that killed those people was her expressing some sort of "laugh riot"?

 

For her, there are only two options: do the first thing you think of (usually: kill), or do nothing. That's the mindset of either a teenager or an idiot. Maybe both.

That is such a gross mischaracterisation that I have to wonder if you've ever spoken to or travelled with her.

[hairlessOrphan]

Doesn't happen. Didn't happen. She does not "put people" into those situations (unlike say, the Inquisitor, Leliana, Cullen.) And when "Jenny people" dies she is light years from amused. Did you actually think that her beating to death the noble that killed those people was her expressing some sort of "laugh riot"?

 

She didn't get to beat the noble to death. I conscripted him, and she laffed.

 

And this is exactly my point about missed opportunities, by the way. You - and Leliana and Cullen - also put people in dangerous situations. Sera equates what you do - and why you do it - with what she does and why she does it.

 

The problem is you (presumably) do not get an alternative where you can make peace with The Crazies. Sera doesn't even consider the possibility of fighting power without violence. And every time you ask her if what she's doing is actually effective, you get no answer and disapproval. It's maddening.

[Nathair Nimheil]

She didn't get to beat the noble to death. I conscripted him, and she laffed.

I would love to see a video of that.

[hairlessOrphan]

I would love to see a video of that.

 

You need the Connections dialogue Inquisition Perk.

[robertthebard]

You're taking this awfully personal. Please stop talking to me until you calm down.
 
PS - you are right, the first table mission was the bees. It's the second one, the Verchiel one.
I am calm, remarkably. It's simple though, she doesn't put anyone in danger, they take that risk on their own asking for Red Jenny's help. They don't know her, she doesn't know them. We can use the Verchiel quest as the perfect example, just taking the dialog with the servant, right before he's killed at face value.



not sure how this one turns out...

[Nathair Nimheil]

You need the Connections dialogue Inquisition Perk.

If I get it will you show me the video?  
 
Edit: Ninja'd RtB. TWICE!
 


Awesome video of Sera amused and laughin... no wait. She was disgusted and disappointed with the epically evil Inquisitor. So much for your portrayal of her, eh?

[TheLastArchivist]

I was with you until about half way through that. Yes, many people are going to be averse to her liberal, anarchosocialist, flippant-if-not-iconoclastic world view. Conservative, traditional, leaning to some degree towards authoritarianism, somewhat other-directed perhaps, such people are pretty mainstream in today's environment. Sera is going to get right up their nose in short order.

...and that's where we part company.

Sera does not take other people's faiths or views lightly. If she didn't take them seriously she wouldn't argue so passionately about them. What she does not do is necessarily treat those beliefs with respect...but why should she? Beliefs are just ideas, and some of them are vacuous, or evil. What she doesn't do is give lip service to "open mindedness" when she encounters such wrong... and why should she? After all, it's not like the conservative, religious, authoritarian folks that she offends are particularly open minded, "not very open minded" is what "conservative" means.

Beliefs are just ideas for people who've never needed to believe in something greater than themselves in order to put up with a harsh reality. You live everyday with violence right next to your door and you come to take faith in God or some higher power very seriously.

 

But to a school or college student, faith is an academic matter. And of course it would be, since they are usually protected from the worst reality has to offer in many ways.

 

 

 

Beliefs are not just ideas. Even those who create beliefs believe deep down in some unchangeable truth. Everyone has something they hold sacred, above the rest. That might not be religion, but it's a personal faith. And mocking that the way the character does shows she has a very shallow spirit.

 

Especially saying the Herald would sound stupid for admitting the myth of Mythal may be true. Why stupid? If she's so intelligent, how can she not see that believing in a religion or faith does not mean you can't respect and consider the religion of someone else valid and true as well?

 

You ask her why is it impossible for some of the belief in Mythal to be true. A revolutionary and open-minded person -which is what the character is SUPPOSED to be- would admit that might be so, which would make elven hystory something neither the Dalish, nor humans be right about it. And that a new hystory must be written.

 

Instead, she says they were arseholes like everyone else. And because they worshipped demons, that made them even more pathetic. Where's the broad-minded revolutionary there?

 

Sorry, but she sounds as someone who still holds a grudge against the lady that brought her up, the orlesian society, who always pushed people like her around and is now fixated in one single view of reality.

 

 

 

She's fanatical. Better yet, close-minded. Anyone who disagrees with her, even without invalidating her argument, is either an arsehole or pathetic. That's not being anti-conservationism. That's just being childish, immature and stupid. 

 

No wonder so many people quickly come to hate her, no matter how "funny" and "accessible" she is. She's so accessible she can't live with a simple divergence of opinion.

[hairlessOrphan]

If I get it will you show me the video?  
 
Edit: Ninja'd RtB. TWICE!
 
Awesome video of Sera amused and laughin... no wait. She was disgusted and disappointed with the epically evil Inquisitor. So much for your portrayal of her, eh?

 

No, not that option. I didn't make a deal with him, I conscripted him. Not seeing the option here, it's a top left option with a crown icon and requires the Connections perk.

[Heimdall]

If I get it will you show me the video?  
 
Edit: Ninja'd RtB. TWICE!
 

Awesome video of Sera amused and laughin... no wait. She was disgusted and disappointed with the epically evil Inquisitor. So much for your portrayal of her, eh?

There is actually another scenario, if you have the right perk, where the Inquisitor can conscript the noble AND strip him of all lands and titles. THEN she laughs.

[robertthebard]

Beliefs are just ideas for people who've never needed to believe in something greater than themselves in order to put up with a harsh reality. You live everyday with violence right next to your door and you come to take faith in God or some higher power very seriously.
 
But to a school or college student, faith is an academic matter. And of course it would be, since they are usually protected from the worst reality has to offer in many ways.
 
 
 
Beliefs are not just ideas. Even those who create beliefs believe deep down in some unchangeable truth. Everyone has something they hold sacred, above the rest. That might not be religion, but it's a personal faith. And mocking that the way the character does shows she has a very shallow spirit.

Or, that she takes her own beliefs seriously, and the rest of the post up from here would bear that out.
 

Especially saying the Herald would sound stupid for admitting the myth of Mythal may be true. Why stupid? If she's so intelligent, how can she not see that believing in a religion or faith does not mean you can't respect and consider the religion of someone else valid and true as well?
 
You ask her why is it impossible for some of the belief in Mythal to be true. A revolutionary and open-minded person -which is what the character is SUPPOSED to be- would admit that might be so, which would make elven hystory something neither the Dalish, nor humans be right about it. And that a new hystory must be written.
 
Instead, she says they were arseholes like everyone else. And because they worshipped demons, that made them even more pathetic. Where's the broad-minded revolutionary there?
 
Sorry, but she sounds as someone who still holds a grudge against the lady that brought her up, the orlesian society, who always pushed people like her around and is now fixated in one single view of reality.
 
 
 
She's fanatical. Better yet, close-minded. Anyone who disagrees with her, even without invalidating her argument, is either an arsehole or pathetic. That's not being anti-conservationism. That's just being childish, immature and stupid. 
 
No wonder so many people quickly come to hate her, no matter how "funny" and "accessible" she is. She's so accessible she can't live with a simple divergence of opinion.

[robertthebard]

There is actually another scenario, if you have the right perk, where the Inquisitor can conscript the noble AND strip him of all lands and titles. THEN she laughs.

I've heard of it, but haven't gotten it yet. My mage will probably do it, since I'm trying to get the full dose of mean with that one. Dalish Elf Female Solasmancer, dedicated in her belief in the Creators. It's going to be a blast, I think. Either that, or I'm going to pull the last 5 hairs I have left out...

[Nathair Nimheil]

But to a school or college student, faith is an academic matter. And of course it would be, since they are usually protected from the worst reality has to offer in many ways.

I have stage 4 stomach cancer so don't preach to me about harsh reality or academic perspectives, OK? Faith is not the automatic consequence of tribulation. If people need a crutch to get through life (as you describe faith) then they are entitled to it but it doesn't make that faith respectable. Lots of people depend on alcohol or drugs to get by, does that make crack sacred?
 

Especially saying the Herald would sound stupid for admitting the myth of Mythal may be true. Why stupid?

She explains that, quite clearly. Accepting a truth claim with insufficient evidence is a rather stupid thing to do.
 

She's fanatical. Better yet, close-minded. Anyone who disagrees with her, even without invalidating her argument, is either an arsehole or pathetic.

But that is not what happens. She doesn't just say "You're stupid" and close her mind, she explains her logic. The "evidence" is all unreliable hearsay while the conflicting evidence is much stronger.
 

She's so accessible she can't live with a simple divergence of opinion.

Sure she can. She lives with it, she stays and carries on, she just doesn't bend to your will.

[Nathair Nimheil]

There is actually another scenario, if you have the right perk, where the Inquisitor can conscript the noble AND strip him of all lands and titles. THEN she laughs.

Still clearly NOT laughing about the deaths of the servants though, right? Laughing because the murderer gets his comeuppance is pretty much the opposite of what was implied.

[hairlessOrphan]

Still clearly NOT laughing about the deaths of the servants though, right? Laughing because the murderer gets his comeuppance is pretty much the opposite of what was implied.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that she thought the random kid dying was funny. She thought the situation as a whole was funny. Which part exactly was funny enough to forget the kid dying? I'm not sure, that part wasn't clear. Worked out ok, didn't it? I mean, sure, some bystanders die, but that noble got his, didn't he?

 

I was still pretty mad, though. Because, to me, the point wasn't making sure some noble got his, and let's pay whatever price we need for it. Right? I didn't intervene to gum up the noble's plans. I intervened to make them stop using villagers as cannon fodder over a land title.

 

I feel like there's a big difference between these two motivations.

[robertthebard]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that she thought the random kid dying was funny. She thought the situation as a whole was funny. Which part exactly was funny enough to forget the kid dying? I'm not sure, that part wasn't clear. Worked out ok, didn't it? I mean, sure, some bystanders die, but that noble got his, didn't he?
 
I was still pretty mad, though. Because, to me, the point wasn't making sure some noble got his, and let's pay whatever price we need for it. Right? I didn't intervene to gum up the noble's plans. I intervened to make them stop using villagers as cannon fodder over a land title.
 
I feel like there's a big difference between these two motivations.

One is the side effect of the other though, regardless of motivation.

[Eldial3los]

Not sure what I was suppose to get from that video, beside her dragging me on quest that I don't really care about. She doesn't contribute anything to the story but random stuffs here and there. Can't even say one sentence in comprehensive normal manner. Look at that face and attitude you just want to kick her out.

 

If I had choice after what she said about me watching it, I would have killed her on the spot.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that she thought the random kid dying was funny. She thought the situation as a whole was funny. Which part exactly was funny enough to forget the kid dying? I'm not sure, that part wasn't clear. Worked out ok, didn't it? I mean, sure, some bystanders die, but that noble got his, didn't he?

Are you serious? We have multiple playthroughs we've seen here. In all of them she evinces rage over the murders and more over your appearing to consider making a deal with him. Depending on your perks she reacts to an actual deal by beating the noble to death with her bare hands or by angrily calling you both shitbags. The other possibility is that you can make a deal with the noble, let him think he's won and then stab him in the back, taking away everything he owns at which point a vengeful Sera laughs. From ALL THAT you somehow came away with the interpretation that because she vindictively laughs at the noble's destruction she doesn't care about the deaths? That is some rather spectacular spin - not to mention chutzpah to present it to us. Kudos!

[hairlessOrphan]

Are you serious? We have multiple playthroughs we've seen here. In all of them she evinces rage over the murders and more over your appearing to consider making a deal with him. Depending on your perks she reacts to an actual deal by beating the noble to death with her bare hands or by angrily calling you both shitbags. The other possibility is that you can make a deal with the noble, let him think he's won and then stab him in the back, taking away everything he owns at which point a vengeful Sera laughs. From ALL THAT you somehow came away with the interpretation that because she vindictively laughs at the noble's destruction she doesn't care about the deaths? That is some rather spectacular spin - not to mention chutzpah to present it to us. Kudos!

 

Really? That's weird to you? Ok, let's just imagine a scenario where we're hanging out and your friend is MURDERED IN FRONT OF YOU, and I take the murderer's car keys. Are you laughing?

[robertthebard]

Really? That's weird to you? Ok, let's just imagine a scenario where we're hanging out and your friend is MURDERED IN FRONT OF YOU, and I take the murderer's car keys. Are you laughing?

Since this has actually happened to me, no, but that guy isn't making any deals either. I'd bet he'd like to be, though.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Really? That's weird to you? Ok, let's just imagine a scenario where we're hanging out and your friend is MURDERED IN FRONT OF YOU, and I take the murderer's car keys. Are you laughing?

Yeah, that's really weird to me. It's also "weird" to me that you would compare seeing a stranger killed in a game where we personally kill hundreds of people with seeing my friend murdered in real life. Also "weird" that you would then equate stripping a member of the nobility in a feudal society of all titles and property with taking some guy's keys. Seriously, I'm worried about you. If you spin any harder;



Yeah, when you pretty much destroy the murderer Sera laughs. Cute and light-hearted laugh like a schoolgirl playing with a puppy? Or a vindictive "Oh yeah, you felt that one!" laugh? They aren't the same thing, you know?

[hairlessOrphan]

Yeah, that's really weird to me. It's also "weird" to me that you would compare seeing a stranger killed in a game where we personally kill hundreds of people with seeing my friend murdered in real life. Also "weird" that you would then equate stripping a member of the nobility in a feudal society of all titles and property with taking some guy's keys. 

 

We're talking about the character, in place, in the fiction, as she's written. She laughs. It's been not even five minutes since seeing this kid murdered, and she's laughing because I took the noble's stuff. I think it's messed up that she laughs. I do, and if that's weird that I think it's messed up, so be it.

 

Because that's awful writing, isn't it? I feel like that's awful writing.

 

I guess you're saying that it should be considered a normal reaction within the game fiction? I don't know. I don't think that's how the fiction portrays itself - at least not consistently.

[Nathair Nimheil]

We're talking about the character, in place, in the fiction, as she's written. She laughs. It's been not even five minutes since seeing this kid murdered, and she's laughing because I took the noble's stuff.

Cute and light-hearted laugh like a schoolgirl playing with a puppy? Or a vindictive "Oh yeah, you felt that one!" laugh? They aren't the same thing, you know? Ever see Jaws? Moments after the shark eats Quint and then exits stage Boom... Brody and Hooper meet up in the middle of the slick of sharkblood and they laugh. Laughter isn't always about not giving a ****.

[hairlessOrphan]

Cute and light-hearted laugh like a schoolgirl playing with a puppy? Or a vindictive "Oh yeah, you felt that one!" laugh? They aren't the same thing, you know? Ever see Jaws? Moments after the shark eats Quint and then exits stage Boom... Brody and Hooper meet up in the middle of the slick of sharkblood and they laugh. Laughter isn't always about not giving a ****.

 

IIRC, she does her trademark phbbthbhbthbth. But don't quote me on that; it's been a while. Instead, take away that this is the impression I retained from whatever she actually did. Also please note that this is the impression I retained BEFORE I came to hate her, although this did contribute.