2858 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Indeed... i mean have you seen posters here wanting so passionately to kill a character.

 

We don't really give them blood until we want to see it exposed to digital sunlight. 

[Daerog]

I keep seeing people commenting on how she just hates certain nobles.

 

That's not entirely true.

 

She hates people in positions of power that hurt the "little people." In Thedas, that mostly involves nobility, so she uses the word "nobles" a lot, but it is not just an intense focus on nobles. She does not like Briala because she uses people as tools, not people, and excuses it as a way to get good things in the long run. Briala is looking in the long term and disposes her people for "the greater good," and I agree with Sera with that excuse being BS and these are people Briala is using, not tools to be discarded for a better advantage in the Game.

 

(Edit: She leaves Denerim because no one is complaining about the nobility there or anyone "punching down" since everyone is working together to recover. So, she is fine with letting nobles be as long as they are being good nobles.)

 

As I said earlier, Sera does not hate nobles, she hates people abusing their power and treating others as disposable tools.

 

She does not hate mages, she doesn't trust magic and is scared of it, as is most of Thedas.

 

She does not hate elves as a whole, just those who live in the past and embrace their victim identity when it has done nothing for them for centuries other than keeping them as victims. With the anti-Dalish threads that have cropped up on these forums, she isn't alone in her opinion.

 

She is rude and openly speaks her mind, this is entirely true. Varric constantly lying and spinning tales is charming, but Sera brings in blunt honesty, even if it is not very articulate or empathetic.

 

Not saying everyone should like her, her use of language is certainly enough to turn some people away, but I think people are getting some of her opinions wrong and if one is going to dislike a character, it shouldn't be for imagined or faulty information on said character.

 

 

Although, I do want to say that I am missing Zevran, even though I didn't care much for him before. He has been the only elf with no issues with other people or cultures, being mostly neutral to everyone. Solas has an issue with humans (although, one has to pick certain dialogue options to bring that fact to light), Sera has an issue with the Dalish, Velanna (or w/e her name is) has an issue with humans...

 

Oh, wait, there was that elf in Witch Hunt... I guess she was alright.

[Nathair Nimheil]

so she uses the word "nobles" a lot, but it is not just an intense focus on nobles.

She does the same thing with "Elfy". Such verbal shorthand doesn't do her any favours in the face of determined antipathy.

[KaiserShep]

Solas has an issue with humans (although, one has to pick certain dialogue options to bring that fact to light), Sera has an issue with the Dalish, Velanna (or w/e her name is) has an issue with humans...

 

This is pretty apparent if you approach him to ask about a gift for Sera, at which point he'll show disdain for "human" gifts. 

[Osena109]

Because she reminds me of Vicky Pollard from little brittain

 

Is little Brittian like SNLI for us Americans?

[Daerog]

She does the same thing with "Elfy". Such verbal shorthand doesn't do her any favours in the face of determined antipathy.

 

Exactly, it is a word she uses for shorthand. It comes off as racist, but she is not intending that. She knows she is an elf and is fine with that, and is fine with other elves, it's what she boxes into the word "Elfy" that she doesn't like. The Dalish have an ideal "elf" and how elves should act "elfy" and they say how city elves are not elves, and it is that which she is mocking.

 

 

Also, she doesn't have a great vocabulary to begin with. She doesn't seem to be highly educated like the other companions, but to hate her just because of that is like hating obese people because they are fat.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Is little Brittian like SNLI for us Americans?

Saturday Night Live...I?

[ImperialAuthority]

I have seen Sera get a substantial amount of hate. I just want to know why you hate her. Personally, I love her. She's crazy. I like crazy. 

 

Sadly alot of people here hates on many things, some folks say "sera is crazy,psychopath" etc..I disagree. When Inquisitor

chooses good dialogue options she gives many honest/understandable responses about the breach, her life etc and she

approves when you do that.

 

People just pre-judge so quickly, saying some crazy words doesnt make her a bad person- some peoples are different,

some people wants special treatment like saying many positive words to her and showing more than enough honesty..

Is that so hard thing to do? Many of you already keep broke other people's hearts by saying simple but strong words in

real life.. do something good for once and accept Sera.

 

I will romance with her in my third gameplay.

[LobselVith8]

I get the feeling you're wilfully missing the point here. Sera disapproves of the "And an ELF WILL RULE!" comment from a Dalish Inquisitor because she interprets that as an expression of Dalish supremacism which, we already know, she particularly loathes.

I disapprove of the fallacy of the Dalish faith being compared to elven supremacy.

There is no real parallel here with a Cadashian surface dwarf or Vashoth Qunari. She likes the dwarven/qunari assertion because it stamps rather directly on both human hegemony and elven supremacism.

Sera has no problem with a dwarf, a qunari, or a mage saying they will stand for all of us, but she has a problem with an elf saying the same thing, which is the problem. She has a problem with elves, which extends beyond the Dalish. It's a character flaw, not something that should be justified.

Likewise, quibbling about Briala's current status as nobility is completely missing the point.

The fact that she's not a noble, and is fighting for elven rights, is precisely the point.

Briala has a history of abusing power in exactly the way that Sera most despises. Why would we expect her to ignore that because Briala is suddenly and conveniently the self-proclaimed champion of the Elves.

Briala was basically Celene's equivalent to the Inquisitor's Leliana, but she has no problem with Leliana.

The thing is not that you have to agree with Sera. The point is that her actions and opinions in these matters are reasonable and consistent with her principles.

I'd never call it reasonable. Deplorable, yes, but not reasonable.

[Daerog]

Briala is fighting for elf rights, but she is not fighting for elves or oppressed people. 

 

Her subordinates are not people to her, just tools. This makes her a great player at the Game and possibly a great general in some army, but it doesn't make her a good person.

 

Edit: I'm just saying this is the reason that Sera doesn't like Briala. She is more deceptive than Leliana. Also, the Inquisition is fighting for the Now, not the Later which is what Briala is fighting for. Sera fights for the Now and doesn't like people sacrificing the Now for the Later.

[WildOrchid]

People just pre-judge so quickly, saying some crazy words doesnt make her a bad person- some peoples are different,

some people wants special treatment like saying many positive words to her and showing more than enough honesty..

Is that so hard thing to do? Many of you already keep broke other people's hearts by saying simple but strong words in

real life.. do something good for once and accept Sera.

 

Ppl are allowed to criticize a character though as long as they aren't pulling the "i wanna kill her ougk! I wanna pin her head on the front of skyhold gate!" or call her psycho or some other "names" without even knowing the meaning of it.

 

But damn, that hate doe.

[Sherbet Lemon]

Ppl are allowed to criticize a character though as long as they aren't pulling the "i wanna kill her ougk! I wanna pin her head on the front of skyhold gate!" or call her psycho or some other "names" without even knowing the meaning of it.

 

But damn, that hate doe.

 

I agree.    I admit, when I first met her she wasn't at all what I expected, but I think that's a very good thing.  I may not a agree with her views on race, but  I find that all of the companions in the game have interesting issues worth discussing.  As soon as I finish up my human mage run. I've got a nice Qunari Rogue lady made just for her.

[Nathair Nimheil]

I disapprove of the fallacy of the Dalish faith being compared to elven supremacy.

I think you mean that you disagree that Dalism is actually elven supremacism... right?

Personally I'm kinda torn on the question. Is it supremacism or just arrogant exceptionalism? Either way we end up splitting that particular hair it remains that Sera interprets the declaration as being somewhere in that spectrum. I don't think it matters exactly where.
 

Sera has no problem with a dwarf, a qunari, or a mage saying they will stand for all of us, but she has a problem with an elf saying the same thing, which is the problem. She has a problem with elves, which extends beyond the Dalish. It's a character flaw, not something that should be justified.

Er, no. Having just explained the distinction to you and having been completely ignored I don't quite know how to proceed. More slowly, I guess...

Sera does not have a problem with "an elf will stand for us all" because she has a problem with elves but because she has a problem with elven exceptionalists/supremacists. This is already a worry for her because the Inquisitor is not just any old elf but a Dalish elf (Dalism: organized and codified elven exceptionalism/supremacism.) We see on more than one occasion that she distinguishes between elf (the race) and "elfy" (the ethos), so it is not difficult to understand here.

Cadashian surface dwarves and Vashoth Qunari are the opposite of exceptionalists/supremacists. They are disdained by the majorities of their respective races and live largely in the shadow of the human/elven hegemony. Hence "A dwarf/qunari will stand for us all" is not a declaration of exceptionalism/supremacism but more of a declaration against it.

They are not parallel cases because the cultures (cultures, not races) from which the three different Inquisitors spring are not equal.
 

The fact that she's not a noble, and is fighting for elven rights, is precisely the point.

For you, clearly. The fact that as a noble she was willing to discard elven servants like used tissues until it became politically expedient for her to suddenly champion them seems a bit more important to others, like Sera.
 

Briala was basically Celene's equivalent to the Inquisitor's Leliana, but she has no problem with Leliana.

It aint the job title, it's the way you got the job and the way you do it that matters. Leliana, even the ruthless doubleplushard Leliana doesn't condemn people thoughtlessly.

[XvAegisFangvX]

Well hell, all that college time wasted! Where were you when I was young and needed someone to tell me what I was and wasn't interested in? Thanks friend!


No but you were kind of ambiguous so I asked for clarification. If that's what you think constitutes "twisting people's opinions" then I can see why you have your knickers in such a tight twist here.


Yeah, I am totally the one that's immaturely lashing out here.

I don't really see how what I said was ambiguous, it is quite clear what I said. I'll go slower maybe (notice how I'm being condescending like you are to others) I said I have seen you take other people's quotes and misquote them to benefit you. I never said that you misquoted me like you accused me of saying. Until your post where you to took half of my sentence out to make it sound like I was accusing you of twisting what I had said. I can't dumb this down any further, but I am sure you will pick and choose what you want from this post so you can benefit yourself.

I can see why people on here give up debating with you. It is impossible to have a mature debate with a person who constantly takes almost everything someone states and twists it. There are others on here who maturely debate why Sera is likeable and why she isn't and the forum is a nice read but then you come on quoting and misquoting and forcing your opinion down everyone's throat it gets old really fast. Immaturity begets immaturity and that is why I can say your post was an immature reply to me because you brought out the immaturity in me. I am calling you immature because you replied to me in a childish manner with the silly *innit and such. You sounded just like Sera which kind of in a sense proved how childish she sounds in the game. I am done arguing with you because it is impossible to gain any ground with the conversation when you constantly pick and choose what you want to understand and what you want to twist to your own benefit. I can point out many others who feel the same in this topic alone.

[DKJaigen]

She is crude , stupid , ignorant and the trait that is most offensive her willingness to remain that way.  she has issues and i am somewhat sympathetic to her view. But this is the inquisition a paramilitary organisation  where have to solve weird crap by keeping an open mind. And if you don't Solas will. Has such a person a place in the inquisition? the answer is no. I find it extremely unrealistic ,and such person would not survive for long as discipline and knowledge is simply lacking.

[Sherbet Lemon]

Cadashian surface dwarves and Vashoth Qunari are the opposite of exceptionalists/supremacists. They are disdained by the majorities of their respective races and live largely in the shadow of the human/elven hegemony. Hence "A dwarf/qunari will stand for us all" is not a declaration of exceptionalism/supremacism but more of a declaration against it.

They are not parallel cases because the cultures (cultures, not races) from which the three different Inquisitors spring are not equal.
 
 

 

Honest question here, but can you clarify what you mean by elven hegemony?

[LobselVith8]

I think you mean that you disagree that Dalism is actually elven supremacism... right?

Personally I'm kinda torn on the question. Is it supremacism or just arrogant exceptionalism? Either way we end up splitting that particular hair it remains that Sera interprets the declaration as being somewhere in that spectrum. I don't think it matters exactly where.

You do realize you're speculating on Sera's rationale, and not providing concrete facts about her personality, right? I'm a little vexed that you expect me to adhere to your musings on the character when I don't share your views. I'm also puzzled as to how you conflate the Dalish as a culture with elven supremacy.

Er, no. Having just explained the distinction to you and having been completely ignored I don't quite know how to proceed. More slowly, I guess...

Sera does not have a problem with "an elf will stand for us all" because she has a problem with elves but because she has a problem with elven exceptionalists/supremacists. This is already a worry for her because the Inquisitor is not just any old elf but a Dalish elf (Dalism: organized and codified elven exceptionalism/supremacism.) We see on more than one occasion that she distinguishes between elf (the race) and "elfy" (the ethos), so it is not difficult to understand here.

Which would involve me sharing your theory about why Sera disapproves of that dialogue choice, and given her opposition to non-Dalish elf choices, it's simply not an opinion I share.

Cadashian surface dwarves and Vashoth Qunari are the opposite of exceptionalists/supremacists. They are disdained by the majorities of their respective races and live largely in the shadow of the human/elven hegemony. Hence "A dwarf/qunari will stand for us all" is not a declaration of exceptionalism/supremacism but more of a declaration against it.

They are not parallel cases because the cultures (cultures, not races) from which the three different Inquisitors spring are not equal.

The Vashoth comes from Tal-Vashoth culture, not Qunari culture, and the Dwarf was part of the carta that wields influence on the surface.

For you, clearly. The fact that as a noble she was willing to discard elven servants like used tissues until it became politically expedient for her to suddenly champion them seems a bit more important to others, like Sera.

A comment that completely misunderstands who Briala actually is, and why she chose to defect from Celene and champion elven rights when she knew Celene would forsake them when it was politically inconvenient.

It aint the job title, it's the way you got the job and the way you do it that matters. Leliana, even the ruthless doubleplushard Leliana doesn't condemn people thoughtlessly.

Neither does Briala, who is the only one in the story action actively trying to help the elves.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

This is pretty apparent if you approach him to ask about a gift for Sera, at which point he'll show disdain for "human" gifts.

Solas is just a hypocrite in that conversation, he'll call himself a individual 1st, elf 2nd which is exactly how Sera see's herself when discussing Briala but get all "Sera doesn't act elfy enough to be a real elf" when asked about the gift

[Ryzaki]

Solas is just a hypocrite in that conversation, he'll call himself a individual 1st, elf 2nd which is exactly how Sera see's herself when discussing Briala but get all "Sera doesn't act elfy enough to be a real elf" when asked about the gift

 

Solas being a racist hypocrite is sort of his thing though. XD

[Nathair Nimheil]

Until your post where you to took half of my sentence out to make it sound like I was accusing you of twisting what I had said.

The problem with that sentence is where you decide that you get to proclaim why I was really posting: "to make it sound like". I had no such intention. I just quoted the part of your post I was addressing. You seem to consider quoting anything less than the entire post "twisting people's words", which is kinda weird. I assume you're actually trying to express "taking words out of context". Honestly I can't even see what the point would be in trying to cherry pick from a post that's still sitting in it's entirety half a screen earlier. That's not exactly Moriarty level of cunning at work there.

More to the point though, I quoted you but did not actually accuse you of anything. If there is any suggestion that I have actually misinterpreted someone's words I would like them to speak up and say so so that if there is any misinterpretation or misunderstanding it can be cleared up. I am not going to apologize for that.
 

Immaturity begets immaturity and that is why I can say your post was an immature reply to me because you brought out the immaturity in me.

Mind if I put that in my sig?
 

I am done arguing with you because

Personally I simply adore a flounce that comes after a snarky post. "First I'm going to say some snotty things about you and then I'm taking my ball and going home!" It's so very Cartman.

[robertthebard]

You do realize you're speculating on Sera's rationale, and not providing concrete facts about her personality, right? I'm a little vexed that you expect me to adhere to your musings on the character when I don't share your views. I'm also puzzled as to how you conflate the Dalish as a culture with elven supremacy.

The "speculation" is based on "Sera Approves" or "Sera Disapproves". How can one confuse what she likes/doesn't like when the game goes so far as to tell you, based on those reactions, and the better question here is, really, how you don't equate referring to City Elves as flat ears anything but a superiority complex? The whole "We're Dalish, and we're better than Shems and flat ears" stands out, especially in DA O. It's apparent when dealing with Merrill's clan, but not to the same extent as what we learn about the Dalish in the first game.

Which would involve me sharing your theory about why Sera disapproves of that dialogue choice, and given her opposition to non-Dalish elf choices, it's simply not an opinion I share.

First you say she doesn't oppose the other "faith based" choices, now you say she opposes them? Which is it? I know for a fact that she approves of ruling as one of the people, because I got it on my Dalish rogue.

The Vashoth comes from Tal-Vashoth culture, not Qunari culture, and the Dwarf was part of the carta that wields influence on the surface.

Both of which are looked down upon by their Dalish equivalents, yes? The dwarves of Orzammar("Dalish equivalent) look down on surface dwarves, and the Qunari(Dalish equivalent) look down on Tal Vashoth. Both are the same, in Sera's eyes, to the way the Dalish act. So yes, she feels some kinship with the dwarf and Tal Vashoth Inquisitors, with the added bonus of she very definitely seems to prefer the Tal Vashoth PC.

A comment that completely misunderstands who Briala actually is, and why she chose to defect from Celene and champion elven rights when she knew Celene would forsake them when it was politically inconvenient.


Neither does Briala, who is the only one in the story action actively trying to help the elves.

There's not a lot to misunderstand about Briala. She gains Sera's disapproval by pointing at her ears and going "see, I'm the same as you". Only she's not the same. She got where she is by sleeping with Celene, even while Celene was purging her alienage. It sure doesn't seem, based on that, that we can take Briala at face value. She will, after all, watch her entire culture be wiped out and do nothing in order to preserve her station. How is that, in any way shape or form like Sera? I mean, we've just been through how Sera will dump the Inquisitor over the Creators stuff at the end of the game. Doesn't that show that Sera is all about her own principles and ideals, making her the opposite of Briala, who truly was in it for herself. Because despite all the "I'm in it for the Elves" rhetoric, who immediately benefits? Briala, and she's willing to pay any cost to make sure she gets it, including the lives of the people she's supposed to be in it for.

[KaiserShep]

Solas is just a hypocrite in that conversation, he'll call himself a individual 1st, elf 2nd which is exactly how Sera see's herself when discussing Briala but get all "Sera doesn't act elfy enough to be a real elf" when asked about the gift

 

The "she is as much an elf as I'm a horse" bit does sound kind of messed up. With that and some of the banter about how she could be, it makes it seem like he sees her as something of a race traitor. It would have been interesting to have an option of dialogue to say "What does that mean, exactly?" It'd probably be the first thoughtful question that gets a disapproval from him XD

[Nathair Nimheil]

First you say she doesn't oppose the other "faith based" choices, now you say she opposes them? Which is it? I know for a fact that she approves of ruling as one of the people, because I got it on my Dalish rogue.

As far as I know:

Sera approves of “because it’s right”, “Corypheus must be stopped”, “lead them to vengeance”, “a dwarf/qunari will stand for us all”.

Sera disapproves of “a servant of faith” and “an elf will stand for us all”.

[robertthebard]

As far as I know:

Sera approves of “because it’s right”, “Corypheus must be stopped”, “lead them to vengeance”, “a dwarf/qunari will stand for us all”.

Sera disapproves of “a servant of faith” and “an elf will stand for us all”.

Heh, I don't see me playing a dwarf or a Qunari, never been into dwarves, don't think I ever finished either origin in Origins, and the whole Qunari thing was never my bag anyway. So those are positions that I'll never likely see.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Honest question here, but can you clarify what you mean by elven hegemony?

I actually said "the human/elven hegemony". Hegemony is when one part of a group dominates the other members of the group. In this case I was referring to the way the humans and Dalish dominate the game environment.