2858 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

Omfg.

 

 

 

Also this thread still going? Jaysus.

lol!! I'm just saying, he spends too much time in my barn.

 

This thread will never die.

[robertthebard]

I actually have been reading the thread, your assumptions aside. My disagreement with your definition of evidence of a stranger's feelings and personal history does not mean I wasn't paying attention. So I still fail to see how you telling us reasons for you being bitter about that past jives with such an accusation. Perhaps I am stupid. I wouldn't know. I'm biased in terms of myself.
 
It just does not make sense to me to reject someone so fully without trying to reach an understanding. And how do you know he doesn't have the strength to end a relationship with someone he disagrees? Isn't it harder to make things work? Come to an understanding and still be friends? Not ostracize an entire world view and potentially cause blood-shed? Hold on, that's nations. Back up.
 
Why even have conversations with people you disagree with if it is better to not try to get them to acknowledge your perspective amicably? Why are you even on the forum if by being the stronger person means not engaging?
 
 Hawke was clearly Andrastian despite my attempts to be indifferent. And Merrill was very much Elven Gods-ist. And somehow they were able to be together. Why can't Sera? Because she is ridiculously close-minded. Which. Is. Ugly.
 
You don't have to be a bitter person to know that. The acknowledgment that many of Sera's behaviors are inappropriate does not require any anger. It just requires an understanding of what is appropriate

I wonder about that: Why bother to talk to someone you don't understand, or don't like? It's not like there isn't a Kick her out option in every single dialog you can have with her.

Appropriate according to whom? So now we are all limited in what we can do based on a set world view that someone else assigns? Who gets to make that decision? You? Me? I suspect that the world would be completely different places based on which one of us got to decide how everyone else in it should think and feel. I suspect that, based on which period in my life I decided to base my Omni-presence on, the world would be completely different places. But the world doesn't work that way. I'm allowed to be the person I am, in so long as I don't violate the laws of the land, just as you are. That we share different viewpoints of the world is evident in even this limited dialog. It is, for example, ok that you point out the apparent bitterness about events in my life I shared, but it is not ok for me to point out the apparent bitterness of another poster about a character in a video game.

This despite the fact that while the bitterness is apparent, it is also a nonfactor. I can still acknowledge that that person was my friend. I did not, however, try to change them to fit my world views. I accepted that that's who they had become, acknowledged that they no longer fit in my life, and sent them packing before it could get to the bitterness about their choices phase. Yes, it did require a bit of forceful persuasion, but it was better to do that early, than to allow the relationship to devolve into resentment, bitterness or hatred. So that's what I did, what was best for both of us. With that, I'll leave this little chapter alone.

So not conforming to the "ideal companion" is why you dislike her? Because she denies you your player agency to change her view points to fit your own? It should be evident from the now 70 pages of this thread alone that that's not a unique situation to Sera. People have different opinions, and most of us will hold on to them, regardless of what others think we should think or feel about a given subject. My first post in this thread is a good indicator of that: OMG, Sera is the BSN. That was my first post here. Reading through the 70 pages here, and some of the other threads about any number of topics should plainly show that that is probably a more accurate assessment than some would like to believe.

As a final point: I have reached "common ground" with more than one poster in this thread alone w/out either one of us having to bow down to the other's position. I spent a couple of hours in the Viv thread, going back and forth with another poster about Viv becoming Divine and managed to reach common ground. The difference? Neither one of us was so rigid in our belief that we were "right, and the only one that could be right" to hash out our position and find a point where we could agree and move the discussion forward. The problem here? You've interjected yourself into a discussion between myself and an individual that chooses to ignore the ingame evidence in favor of "But I'm right, and nobody else can be". This is especially sad considering there is no right or wrong answer to liking Sera. They are, however, right, and anyone that disagrees with them is "making assumptions" (this despite having ingame dialog and the approval system) to show where some of the positions said poster is arguing from are misconceptions of what is presented. Those are the issue, and the Sera-esque way in which in game supporting evidence is dismissed for no apparent reason other than "I'm right and nobody else can be". Which is, in and of itself, sort of Sera-esque, wouldn't you say?

[Ryzaki]

lol!! I'm just saying, he spends too much time in my barn.

 

This thread will never die.

 

That's terrible XD

 

Even I don't think that poorly of the beard.

 

(Just that he's as interesting as watching paint dry.)

[vometia]

For me its her speech.
 
She makes little sense and is very annoying.

I still don't really get this: she seems clear enough to me. Maybe it's the accent (for all the "speaking English with an English accent" outrage... btdt, having been told to "speak English, dammit" myself. lol etc) but otherwise she seems perfectly coherent to me.

[KaiserShep]

*snip*

 

You're not lacking for passion, I'll give you that

[robertthebard]

You're not lacking for passion, I'll give you that

It's because I'm a Taurus.

[Karai9]

 'of your assault on my character'

 

Luke Kristjanson, is that you?

[AzureAardvark]

It's because I'm a Taurus.

Bull!

[robertthebard]

Luke Kristjanson, is that you?

Context is everything, since the poster went after me, instead of Sera...

[Karai9]

Context is everything, since the poster went after me, instead of Sera...

Sorry, I honestly misread it the first time around

[robertthebard]

Sorry, I honestly misread it the first time around

No worries, I wish I was making his money though...

[XvAegisFangvX]

Sorry, I honestly misread it the first time around

At least you admit your mistake unlike some others on this forum.    

[Karai9]

At least you admit your mistake unlike some others on this forum.    

Ooo, those are fighting words friend!

 

*takes cover while the s*** flies*

[XvAegisFangvX]

Ooo, those are fighting words friend!

 

*takes cover while the s*** flies*

[robertthebard]

*Runs away*

[XvAegisFangvX]

*Runs away*

haha I'd probably run away too, the little ones are the scariest... and peacocks they're scary too. 

[Saerise]

I didn't care for her much upon initially meeting her, but she has quite grown on me. Like a kid sister to my Inquisitor, I guess. The pranks and cookies won me over, I think. She really is much smarter than she acts. I like her in her more serious, questioning, frightened moments. She wants to know the truth about the Maker, but she's afraid to find out the answer. I would definitely peg her for having some hardcore ADHD. The butt jokes do get old quick, but I suspect that is her way of avoiding more serious discussions because she's afraid. I was delighted to hear her opinion of Dorian. It did seem like they'd get along quite well, despite their considerably different backgrounds. 

 

As far as her attitude towards elves, and particularly the Dalish? I can't blame her in the slightest. The Dalish have a tendency of coming off as self-righteous, narrow minded, pretentious bigots. Calling a city elf "Flat-ear" is just as bad as calling any elf a "Knife-ear", in my opinion. Many of them seem to be every bit as racist as the humans. Solas seems to have been rebuffed by them as well. Like he says when you ask him about other Dalish clans, Lavellan is unique in actually caring at all about anyone else except themselves. The way they treated Minaeve was disheartening, too. 

[WildOrchid]

The pranks and cookies won me over, I think.

 

Not to mention it's been hinted that she makes cookies for you (and probably for others too) all the time, if you encourage her to make cookies.

 

Cookies for everyone!

[LobselVith8]

I thought it was obvious why she disliked Briala, she mostly cares about getting power for herself, wants to raise elves up only, & will happily sacrifice peoples lives to make her ambitions happen

 

If Briala only cared about getting power for herself, she would have simply sided with Celene in TME - as Celene said she would give Briala nobility status. Instead, Briala refused to side with Celene precisely because she felt Celene would forsake the welfare of the elves when it became politically inconvenient for her. It's why she claims the Orlesian Eluvians "for the elves of Orlais". It's also why she stipulates to Mihris that she's willing to work with the Dalish as long as all elves are treated with equality.

[Heimdall]

If Briala only cared about getting power for herself, she would have simply sided with Celene in TME - as Celene said she would give Briala nobility status. Instead, Briala refused to side with Celene precisely because she felt Celene would forsake the welfare of the elves when it became politically inconvenient for her. It's why she claims the Orlesian Eluvians "for the elves of Orlais". It's also why she stipulates to Mihris that she's willing to work with the Dalish as long as all elves are treated with equality.

Yeah, but Sera can't possibly know all that. She just see's a noble pulling the wool over the elves' eyes so that they'll follow her and fight for her purposes, and no doubt many have already died in the war for her. That she does it by virtue of pointed ears being the great equalizer, just makes her more angry. As has been said, Sera isn't a believer in racial kinship.

[LobselVith8]

So you're not bitter, but disgusted that she can stick to her own beliefs over what you think she should do? Despite knowing that more wars are fought over the same idea than for any other reason?

 

Sera breaking up with an elven Inquisitor (who she already knows is Dalish) because she said that she believes in the elven gods would be like if you broke up with a Jewish woman you were dating because she said she believed in God. I take umbrage with that. I find it incredibly problematic that Sera breaks up with the elven Inquisitor unless she forsakes her religious beliefs.

 

So neither of these:

: causing painful emotions : felt or experienced in a strong and unpleasant way

: angry and unhappy because of unfair treatment

fits the tirade you're on? So you don't see it as unfair that she can do that? Then why are you blowing up this thread with claims to the contrary? Why does it disgust you, if you think it's acceptable? I not only find it acceptable, I also understand it. I am not, however, going to backtrack the thread to point out the hypocrisy of your assault on my character. This quote suffices to show that it's not my issue here, but your own.

 

It's hardly a tirade to express that I take issue with some of Sera's personality traits. This is also a thread aimed at Sera, so I'm expressing issue with these character flaws.

 

Let me summarize this post for you, in English:

"Rob, you're an *******.

I'm not bitter about what she does; (insert rage about what she does)."

 

Considering that I've read people who romanced Sera as an elven Inquisitor and were genuinely bitter over that scene, I don't think you actually you've actually read people who were bitter over the romance. Perhaps you're taking my opposition to this aspect of Sera's personality a bit too personally?

 

That's this quote in a nutshell. Go ahead, tell me again how I'm making assumptions based on what you say. I cannot make a blind assumption about your meaning when you state it plainly. I did not misinterpret what you said to fit my points/counter points. I'm not making assumptions about Sera's motivations, she makes it plain through out the game, both in dialog and through the approval system(for better or worse, it's there). The flaw here, if there is one, is assuming that in order for her to be "good" she has to blindly accept whatever the Inquisitor does because "player agency". The party members are each their own "person". If you push them too far, they can break up with you, just like people in real life. I haven't hit the crisis point with any of them, so far. Although my Dalish Mage will, deliberately, so that I can see that side of her character in game, instead of on youtube. Because, believe it or not, I find that that makes her more "real" as a character.

 

There's a difference between having different ideological views while being in a romantic relationship (Hawke and Merrill, for example), and breaking up with a romantic partner because they won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs for you (Lavellan and Sera). It's really not that hard to misinterpret why this would be an issue for some people.

[Aimi]

There's a difference between having different ideological views while being in a romantic relationship (Hawke and Merrill, for example), and breaking up with a romantic partner because they won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs for you (Lavellan and Sera). It's really not that hard to misinterpret why this would be an issue for some people.

Because it compels the PC to change for the NPC, instead of the other way around?

I get why people playing elfquisitors would be sad about breaking up with Sera over religion. I don't get why people consider it "problematic". Your comparison with "breaking up with a Jewish woman because she said she believed in God" is a perfectly apt one. It's also a perfectly normal reason for a relationship to end. I've seen it happen before with some of my own friends. Some people can't spend the rest of their lives with somebody who disagrees with them on a fundamental world view. Hell, I've seen breakups over things considerably more petty than core personal beliefs. At this point, I have to wonder what sort of reasons you think are okay to justify ending a relationship.

What exactly is the issue, apart from unhappiness that a elfy elf diehard can't have an elfy elf waifu?

[robertthebard]

There's a difference between having different ideological views while being in a romantic relationship (Hawke and Merrill, for example), and breaking up with a romantic partner because they won't suddenly give up their religious beliefs for you (Lavellan and Sera). It's really not that hard to misinterpret why this would be an issue for some people.

...and this is the issue in a nutshell. Up until this point, Lavellan hasn't been "too elfy", or else the relationship wouldn't have gotten off the ground. It does, which means that, up until this point, Lavellan hasn't been too far into the Creators. This break up doesn't occur, after all, simply because the Inqisitor is Dalish, it occurs because the Inquisitor expresses belief in what they observed in Mythal's temple, and the whole Dalish thing. With my Human Inquisitor who did romance her, I didn't get the break up, because really, the majority of what I saw in the temple showed me that the Dalish had indeed been wrong about a lot of things. I, of course, didn't know about the tattoos being slave markings, since I wasn't Dalish and didn't romance Solas for the full effect, even though Cory tips the scale on that in the final battle if you're Dalish, but the basic scene plays out much the same way as the breakup video. Only, since I wasn't convinced of anything I saw enough to think that my own religious beliefs were wrong, as an Andrastian human Inquisitor, I really didn't have much choice but to agree with her.

As a long time fan of the elves in this setting, if I had seen enough to challenge that belief, I would have jumped on it. It just wasn't there. I still don't know if Flemeth and Solas are more than just Fade spirits, and if they indeed are, then that would actually lend more credence to what I've learned about the Chantry's "Creation Myth", that the Spirits and Demons were the Maker's first children. Given everything we do learn, however, Sera's not far off, even if she isn't right. I don't have enough information to say "No Sera, the Elven Gods are real" based on what we're given. Even with scenes that nobody in game is privy too, such as the post credits cliff hanger. With all the OOC information I do have, I can't sit here and claim that the Elven Pantheon is the Real Deal^TM, because there wasn't enough given, and what there was is very open to interpretation. How many, for example, believe that Flemeth jumped into Solas as opposed to how many believe that Solas stole Flemeth's power? I don't have a clear answer either way, and the same applies across the board, even with meta knowledge.

[LobselVith8]

Because it compels the PC to change for the NPC, instead of the other way around?

 

For Dragon Age, I don't recall being able to make any character forsake their religious beliefs for a romance.

 

I get why people playing elfquisitors would be sad about breaking up with Sera over religion. I don't get why people consider it "problematic". Your comparison with "breaking up with a Jewish woman because she said she believed in God" is a perfectly apt one. It's also a perfectly normal reason for a relationship to end. I've seen it happen before with some of my own friends. Some people can't spend the rest of their lives with somebody who disagrees with them on a fundamental world view. Hell, I've seen breakups over things considerably more petty than core personal beliefs. At this point, I have to wonder what sort of reasons you think are okay to justify ending a relationship.

What exactly is the issue, apart from unhappiness that a elfy elf diehard can't have an elfy elf waifu?

 

It's problematic because Sera got into the relationship knowing Lavellan was Dalish, and now expects her love interest to suddenly give up her religious beliefs or else their relationship is over.

[Icinix]

Sera in grumpy Solas voice "Hmm. The veil is fat here."

Just another one of Seras lines that actually had me throwing my head back and chortling hysterically.